FAQs About Mormonism - Discussion

[GoldDiggingWhore]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

I mean, if he's a prophet who speaks directly to God, why would he believe in an opinion that ended up wrong, when God reveals all truth to him? And the guy DID even point out how this prophet specifically said to quote him on it.

Sadly, I have no adequate answer to that question.

Speaking of interesting things LDS leaders have said...

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

GoldDiggingWhore

Neophenx de Chrysalya

I mean, if he's a prophet who speaks directly to God, why would he believe in an opinion that ended up wrong, when God reveals all truth to him? And the guy DID even point out how this prophet specifically said to quote him on it.

Sadly, I have no adequate answer to that question.

Speaking of interesting things LDS leaders have said...

Easy slip of tongue... but hilarious.

[GoldDiggingWhore]

Cresneta

I'd have to agree, it's about like comparing the Japanese kasa(umbrella if memory serves me) to the Spanish casa(house), or the Japanes kesu(to erase I think, or some other verb) to the Spanish queso(cheese), or the Japanese verb miru (to see) and the Spanaish verb mirar(to see). Linguistic coincidences pop up a lot, even in unrelated languages like Spanish and Japanese. Anyways, it's my opinion that there are more substantial discussions to be had regarding the veracity of the LDS church than this - even in the realm of linguistics.

This post made me think of a couple things. First, I once read the something that said the meaning of the word "Christ" in traditional Christianity and its meaning in the LDS faith are not the same, and the comparison it gave was the word "Washington." Two people could both say they live in Washington and yet be on opposite sides of the US.

Second, I agree completely that the topic of discussion you were commenting on is pretty trivial when compared to things that are at the heart of the LDS faith. One of the most important things that differs greatly from traditional Christianity would be that the LDS church teaches that God was once a mortal man like us, and that he is now an exalted man who has set the rules on how we may become gods ourselves. On the other hand, traditional Christianity believes that God has always been God, that He is a being of spirit, not flesh, and that we are never going to become godlike the way He is.

This is just one major area where the two Washingtons are not the same, and because of that I have a hard time considering LDS members as Christian.

[Krego-sama]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Krego-sama

It's kinda funny how, when I listen to two christians of different religions argue with each other, it sounds like they ought to be on the same side. Same basic points, same figure head, but brought up in a slightly different culture. Silly. whee

Are you stating that Mormons are Christians? Because Latter Day Saints at its roots has some very different structural and theological issues to work out if they're to be considered of the same faith as what the Bible tells us.

I am saying that they are Christians for the very same reason all Christians are Christians. Because they claim they are Christians. They have explanations for the differences in their beliefs just like every other Christian religion has explanations for their differences. Essencially they all believe in the teachings of Christ and in Christ's attonement. The rest is inconsequential, at least to an outside observer like myself. I think you're all equally crazy emotion_awesome

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Krego-sama

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Krego-sama

It's kinda funny how, when I listen to two christians of different religions argue with each other, it sounds like they ought to be on the same side. Same basic points, same figure head, but brought up in a slightly different culture. Silly. whee

Are you stating that Mormons are Christians? Because Latter Day Saints at its roots has some very different structural and theological issues to work out if they're to be considered of the same faith as what the Bible tells us.

I am saying that they are Christians for the very same reason all Christians are Christians. Because they claim they are Christians. They have explanations for the differences in their beliefs just like every other Christian religion has explanations for their differences. Essencially they all believe in the teachings of Christ and in Christ's attonement. The rest is inconsequential, at least to an outside observer like myself. I think you're all equally crazy emotion_awesome

There lies the fallacy. People can CALL themselves whatever they want, but unless their life, their choices, and their attitudes reflect what they CLAIM to believe, they don't really believe it. Talk is cheap, and if someone's going to convince me that they're a Christian they need to be attempting to live by Christ's teaching.

[Doofi3]

I am (on a personal level) leery of any religion that trusts its authenticity based on one man. (Particularly when that one man was a proven con-man.)

[Doofi3]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

There lies the fallacy. People can CALL themselves whatever they want, but unless their life, their choices, and their attitudes reflect what they CLAIM to believe, they don't really believe it. Talk is cheap, and if someone's going to convince me that they're a Christian they need to be attempting to live by Christ's teaching.

Honestly, Mormons (dedicated Mormons that is) seem more Christian than most other self-proclaimed "followers of Christ." The Mormons I've met are more accepting, more respectful of non-Christians, and more generally "good" (by Christian moral standards) than many non-Mormon Christians I've met.

They require two years of missionary work just to be a full member in their Church... sounds fairly dedicated to Christ's call to witnessing. They accept and embrace people of all races, sexual orientations, and religious backgrounds (sounds like Jesus of Nazareth to me) They are open to discussion and debate (again, sounds like Jesus). They know the Bible better than most other Christians I know (once more, sounds like Christ and his teachings). They seem to be (at least from my own experience) generally kind and helpful people due to their religious teachings.

In fact, apart from some dogmatic differences, their beliefs and practices (from what I've always seen in the Mormon community) are more in line with Christ's teaching than many other Christian sects. Not sure what makes you say they aren't following Christ's teachings. How many Mormons have you actually known or talked to with an open mind? In what ways did they fail to meet up to your expectations of someone that is "attempting to live by Christ's teachings?

[keito-ninja]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

You don't seem to understand my purpose in posting. I didn't post so that I could argue about the specifics of the claim. I posted to share my views about the validity of the type of judgement that was being made. I'm not going to explain it again as I have already done so above. Both of us entered the conversation expecting a different kind of discussion, which is perhaps why there's been some miss-communication. No point pointing fingers over it.

You also don't understand how I think. People like you often think that I'm a "blind follower" because I don't have the energy or inclination to research every little argument against my church. When I have nothing to say about the arguments they make, they either assume they are right because I'm backing down or they think I'm crazy for ignoring the "obvious evidence" in front of me. I have a strong testimony in my religion that is based on my personal relationship with God-- not blindly following other people. I do care about the "why" and the evidence behind my faith, I just don't care about the same kind of "evidences" as you. Those evidences which are important to me, and which I've slowly gathered throughout my life, only serve to strengthen my faith. I am not on this forum so that I can justify my own beliefs, nor do I want to try to prove that other people's beliefs are wrong. I am here because I like to see other people's view points and opinions on varying matters, and I like to share my own opinions with those who want to hear them.

You expect me to take a belief seriously when it lacks some kind of tangible effect? Because unless your faith is rooted in some testimony of what's actually been done in your life, I'm not interested in your opinions, especially when you disregard the very essence of discussion by interjecting with only that: opinions, especially when you've entered without even reading the material that was in question.
You want to get taken seriously? Try backing up your claims with something verifiable.

((sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I've been offline for a while))

My faith has had a tangible effect in my life. One of my many imperfections is that I'm really bad at explaining spiritual experiences in words to other people.

And as I keep on telling you-- to me, the very essence of discussion is sharing opinions. Seeing as neither of us can agree on what kind of discussion to have, then it would make sense to end this conversation here.

[keito-ninja]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Christian = believes in Christ

Satan believes in Christ. Some Muslims believe in Christ. Does not make them Christian.

Okay, so then what is your criteria for what constitutes "Christian" vs. what doesn't. Believing in Christ and his teachings, and believing Christ to be one's only savior, as L9L said. I don't see how anything else would be required for a church to be considered Christian.

Christianity is based on the exclusivity of Christ's atonement. Instead, LDS teaching requires one to be considered "temple worthy" and be sealed in the temple to BECOME worthy of heaven. What's more, that Jesus Christ is the head of the Christian church, while the head of the Mormon church is a so called prophet, following in the footsteps of other prophets who's words have either been confirmed, overwritten, or just plain thrown out because of the bad reputation it gave the church. Jesus never preached a religion, and even spoke out against religion, and that's all Mormonism is: a religion crafted by a man for the gullible masses.

Well, I don't agree with you, but I don't feel like having a heated discussion about it. I'll just mention that the whole heaven and temple thing is not as simple as you make it sound-- it's like you simplified it because it's too complicated to write all of it down, but you simplified it in a way that detracts from the true purpose and meaning of both temples and the requirements for being worthy of heaven.

If my statements are wrong, then what IS true about the Temple? IS it necessary to be temple worthy to deserve heaven? Because that's not what's in the Bible. If you disagree, I'd like to know WHY you believe one thing is right and another is wrong. That is the essence of discussion.

Anyone who is worthy in God's eyes can reach heaven. If you are worthy to enter the temple then you are able to make sacred covenants in the temple (endowment, being sealed to your family etc.). These sacred covenants give you extra blessings, aside from deserving heaven. Even if you don't make those covenants in this life, there is time after death, before the judgement day, when everyone will have the chance to do so, if they choose.
That's a basic summary of what I meant.

[keito-ninja]

GoldDiggingWhore

keito-ninja

People like you often think that I'm a "blind follower" because I don't have the energy or inclination to research every little argument against my church. When I have nothing to say about the arguments they make, they either assume they are right because I'm backing down or they think I'm crazy for ignoring the "obvious evidence" in front of me. I have a strong testimony in my religion that is based on my personal relationship with God-- not blindly following other people. I do care about the "why" and the evidence behind my faith, I just don't care about the same kind of "evidences" as you. Those evidences which are important to me, and which I've slowly gathered throughout my life, only serve to strengthen my faith. I am not on this forum so that I can justify my own beliefs, nor do I want to try to prove that other people's beliefs are wrong. I am here because I like to see other people's view points and opinions on varying matters, and I like to share my own opinions with those who want to hear them.

Would you please elaborate on your testimony based on your personal relationship with God?

As I just mentioned above, one of the reasons that I don't like explaining why I have such a strong testimony is because I'm very bad at it. All I can ever come up with to say is just a bunch of vague wish wash that sounds weak even to me. I know what I believe, and I know why I believe it, but I don't know how to help other people understand why I believe it.

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Doofi3

Neophenx de Chrysalya

There lies the fallacy. People can CALL themselves whatever they want, but unless their life, their choices, and their attitudes reflect what they CLAIM to believe, they don't really believe it. Talk is cheap, and if someone's going to convince me that they're a Christian they need to be attempting to live by Christ's teaching.

Honestly, Mormons (dedicated Mormons that is) seem more Christian than most other self-proclaimed "followers of Christ." The Mormons I've met are more accepting, more respectful of non-Christians, and more generally "good" (by Christian moral standards) than many non-Mormon Christians I've met.

They require two years of missionary work just to be a full member in their Church... sounds fairly dedicated to Christ's call to witnessing. They accept and embrace people of all races, sexual orientations, and religious backgrounds (sounds like Jesus of Nazareth to me) They are open to discussion and debate (again, sounds like Jesus). They know the Bible better than most other Christians I know (once more, sounds like Christ and his teachings). They seem to be (at least from my own experience) generally kind and helpful people due to their religious teachings.

In fact, apart from some dogmatic differences, their beliefs and practices (from what I've always seen in the Mormon community) are more in line with Christ's teaching than many other Christian sects. Not sure what makes you say they aren't following Christ's teachings. How many Mormons have you actually known or talked to with an open mind? In what ways did they fail to meet up to your expectations of someone that is "attempting to live by Christ's teachings?

You yourself had just said that in order to be a FULL member, missionary service is required. Last I checked, ministry is not limited to a two year span of strict rules and dressing like clones. True, there are MANY self-proclaimed Christians who just go through motions making no effort to renew their heart, but there are also those who give their lives to ministry, not just two years. It doesn't take a bishopric or a special priesthood to spread the Gospel, as Jesus Himself said when his followers wanted to stop a man who was healing and casting out demons in Jesus' name, but who was not a part of their group. Mormons claim to be the one true church, the one true religion, but Jesus Christ NEVER preached a religion. The reason I have a problem with the Mormon religion is that: They say that their church is the only true church to reach the highest heaven, when Jesus said that HE is the way. A church that claims to be the best or only way to heaven has tried to steal that glory from Christ, who gave His life for us all.

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Okay, so then what is your criteria for what constitutes "Christian" vs. what doesn't. Believing in Christ and his teachings, and believing Christ to be one's only savior, as L9L said. I don't see how anything else would be required for a church to be considered Christian.

Christianity is based on the exclusivity of Christ's atonement. Instead, LDS teaching requires one to be considered "temple worthy" and be sealed in the temple to BECOME worthy of heaven. What's more, that Jesus Christ is the head of the Christian church, while the head of the Mormon church is a so called prophet, following in the footsteps of other prophets who's words have either been confirmed, overwritten, or just plain thrown out because of the bad reputation it gave the church. Jesus never preached a religion, and even spoke out against religion, and that's all Mormonism is: a religion crafted by a man for the gullible masses.

Well, I don't agree with you, but I don't feel like having a heated discussion about it. I'll just mention that the whole heaven and temple thing is not as simple as you make it sound-- it's like you simplified it because it's too complicated to write all of it down, but you simplified it in a way that detracts from the true purpose and meaning of both temples and the requirements for being worthy of heaven.

If my statements are wrong, then what IS true about the Temple? IS it necessary to be temple worthy to deserve heaven? Because that's not what's in the Bible. If you disagree, I'd like to know WHY you believe one thing is right and another is wrong. That is the essence of discussion.

Anyone who is worthy in God's eyes can reach heaven. If you are worthy to enter the temple then you are able to make sacred covenants in the temple (endowment, being sealed to your family etc.). These sacred covenants give you extra blessings, aside from deserving heaven. Even if you don't make those covenants in this life, there is time after death, before the judgement day, when everyone will have the chance to do so, if they choose.
That's a basic summary of what I meant.

Alright, but what does the Bible say about how a person is worthy to enter Heaven? Is a person worthy because of what they do, or because of what Jesus Christ did?

In response to your other post (makes little sense to keep posting twice), Don't sweat being offline. I understand having a life outside the internet, I can't hold any fault to you for that.
However, when it comes to discussing opinions, if I'm to accept a person's opinion it needs some kind of evidence to back it up, otherwise it's only that: an opinion, a speculation. When it comes down to the end, God's probably not going to care if you had an opinion about something if the opinion worked against His truth. That's why if opinions are involved, I want to know WHY a person has such an opinion, and what makes it true. After all, IF my own opinions are indeed wrong, I would much rather know what is wrong and why it is wrong so that I may continue pursuing real truth in my life.

[keito-ninja]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

If my statements are wrong, then what IS true about the Temple? IS it necessary to be temple worthy to deserve heaven? Because that's not what's in the Bible. If you disagree, I'd like to know WHY you believe one thing is right and another is wrong. That is the essence of discussion.

Anyone who is worthy in God's eyes can reach heaven. If you are worthy to enter the temple then you are able to make sacred covenants in the temple (endowment, being sealed to your family etc.). These sacred covenants give you extra blessings, aside from deserving heaven. Even if you don't make those covenants in this life, there is time after death, before the judgement day, when everyone will have the chance to do so, if they choose.
That's a basic summary of what I meant.

Alright, but what does the Bible say about how a person is worthy to enter Heaven? Is a person worthy because of what they do, or because of what Jesus Christ did?

In response to your other post (makes little sense to keep posting twice), Don't sweat being offline. I understand having a life outside the internet, I can't hold any fault to you for that.
However, when it comes to discussing opinions, if I'm to accept a person's opinion it needs some kind of evidence to back it up, otherwise it's only that: an opinion, a speculation. When it comes down to the end, God's probably not going to care if you had an opinion about something if the opinion worked against His truth. That's why if opinions are involved, I want to know WHY a person has such an opinion, and what makes it true. After all, IF my own opinions are indeed wrong, I would much rather know what is wrong and why it is wrong so that I may continue pursuing real truth in my life.

I'm not to great with verse references, but I think that a person is worthy because of what they do, what Jesus did, and what is in their heart. A person's actions can count for or against them. The atonement can wipe out sins if a person repents. As for your heart-- I believe that the most important thing is not which church you belong to, but whether you are a kind and loving person. Of course belonging to the correct religion means that you're more likely to be steering your life in the right direction, but if there's say a prideful snobby Christian versus say a kind selfless Buddhist, I think that the kind selfless one will be more worthy of heaven.

I guess I've developed this opinion because of the example of Jesus Christ-- he always loved everyone, no matter who they were, and he always looked past who they were on the outside and only looked at who they were on the outside. The story where He drives the money-makers from the temple comes to mind-- on the outside they were "doing God's will" but on the inside they knew that they were perverting the temple grounds and exploiting the people. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but they did it anyways, and that, I think, is one of the main reasons it made Christ so upset.

As I read over this last point, I can imagine what you might say next. Perhaps you would compare the LDS church to those money makers, and you might ask "How do you know your church isn't the one perverting sacred things and exploiting members?" "Why do you believe that your church is the one that should be trusted and followed?" This is where I have trouble explaining. I can explain why I have my own opinions based on my belief in the LDS church, the same way someone else might justify their opinions based on what the Bible says, but I don't know how to explain why I have such a strong belief in my religion in particular.

Maybe I just feel like I'm so bad at explaining because I'm afraid that other people will just brush it off and say that it's not substantial enough evidence to justify my faith. I haven't lived a very remarkable life. There is no one miraculous experience that confirmed my testimony in my church. God has worked in my life in very subtle ways, so I can't be sure if anyone will understand when I try to explain them. For all it's worth, here I go:

I believe in the LDS church because so many of its principles ring true for me on a profound level. I believe because I have felt the Holy Spirit confirming to me it is true. I believe because it teaches me of the plan of salvation and happiness that God has set up for us, which is much clearer and truer than the vague idea that other churches have of our purpose on Earth. I believe because I really do feel we are God's children, and like all children we have the potential to grow to become like him. I believe because it seems only natural to me that God would never leave us in this confusing time without a living prophet to guide our way. I believe because it seems only natural to me that the Israelites were not the only people with the gospel, and that God would stay with any people who loved him and wanted to keep his commandments (i.e. the Nephites). I believe because it is only natural that God would want us to have more records and scripture from other cultures (i.e. B of M) so that we could have a clearer idea of his gospel amidst all the conflicts and disagreements that arise from some vague spots of the gospel. I believe because I find it true that families should be together forever, not married "till death do you part".

I suppose I could go on, but the basic point is that it "feels" true to me. I don't know whether anyone else can consider that "evidence".

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

Neophenx de Chrysalya

If my statements are wrong, then what IS true about the Temple? IS it necessary to be temple worthy to deserve heaven? Because that's not what's in the Bible. If you disagree, I'd like to know WHY you believe one thing is right and another is wrong. That is the essence of discussion.

Anyone who is worthy in God's eyes can reach heaven. If you are worthy to enter the temple then you are able to make sacred covenants in the temple (endowment, being sealed to your family etc.). These sacred covenants give you extra blessings, aside from deserving heaven. Even if you don't make those covenants in this life, there is time after death, before the judgement day, when everyone will have the chance to do so, if they choose.
That's a basic summary of what I meant.

Alright, but what does the Bible say about how a person is worthy to enter Heaven? Is a person worthy because of what they do, or because of what Jesus Christ did?

In response to your other post (makes little sense to keep posting twice), Don't sweat being offline. I understand having a life outside the internet, I can't hold any fault to you for that.
However, when it comes to discussing opinions, if I'm to accept a person's opinion it needs some kind of evidence to back it up, otherwise it's only that: an opinion, a speculation. When it comes down to the end, God's probably not going to care if you had an opinion about something if the opinion worked against His truth. That's why if opinions are involved, I want to know WHY a person has such an opinion, and what makes it true. After all, IF my own opinions are indeed wrong, I would much rather know what is wrong and why it is wrong so that I may continue pursuing real truth in my life.

I'm not to great with verse references, but I think that a person is worthy because of what they do, what Jesus did, and what is in their heart. A person's actions can count for or against them. The atonement can wipe out sins if a person repents. As for your heart-- I believe that the most important thing is not which church you belong to, but whether you are a kind and loving person. Of course belonging to the correct religion means that you're more likely to be steering your life in the right direction, but if there's say a prideful snobby Christian versus say a kind selfless Buddhist, I think that the kind selfless one will be more worthy of heaven.

I guess I've developed this opinion because of the example of Jesus Christ-- he always loved everyone, no matter who they were, and he always looked past who they were on the outside and only looked at who they were on the outside. The story where He drives the money-makers from the temple comes to mind-- on the outside they were "doing God's will" but on the inside they knew that they were perverting the temple grounds and exploiting the people. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but they did it anyways, and that, I think, is one of the main reasons it made Christ so upset.

As I read over this last point, I can imagine what you might say next. Perhaps you would compare the LDS church to those money makers, and you might ask "How do you know your church isn't the one perverting sacred things and exploiting members?" "Why do you believe that your church is the one that should be trusted and followed?" This is where I have trouble explaining. I can explain why I have my own opinions based on my belief in the LDS church, the same way someone else might justify their opinions based on what the Bible says, but I don't know how to explain why I have such a strong belief in my religion in particular.

Maybe I just feel like I'm so bad at explaining because I'm afraid that other people will just brush it off and say that it's not substantial enough evidence to justify my faith. I haven't lived a very remarkable life. There is no one miraculous experience that confirmed my testimony in my church. God has worked in my life in very subtle ways, so I can't be sure if anyone will understand when I try to explain them. For all it's worth, here I go:

I believe in the LDS church because so many of its principles ring true for me on a profound level. I believe because I have felt the Holy Spirit confirming to me it is true. I believe because it teaches me of the plan of salvation and happiness that God has set up for us, which is much clearer and truer than the vague idea that other churches have of our purpose on Earth. I believe because I really do feel we are God's children, and like all children we have the potential to grow to become like him. I believe because it seems only natural to me that God would never leave us in this confusing time without a living prophet to guide our way. I believe because it seems only natural to me that the Israelites were not the only people with the gospel, and that God would stay with any people who loved him and wanted to keep his commandments (i.e. the Nephites). I believe because it is only natural that God would want us to have more records and scripture from other cultures (i.e. B of M) so that we could have a clearer idea of his gospel amidst all the conflicts and disagreements that arise from some vague spots of the gospel. I believe because I find it true that families should be together forever, not married "till death do you part".

I suppose I could go on, but the basic point is that it "feels" true to me. I don't know whether anyone else can consider that "evidence".

What I have trouble understanding, though, is WHY you choose to follow the prophet you do. Does he perform prophecy or miracles? And how valid can he really be, being the prophet of a religion who has repeatedly failed in prophecy and changed so many foundational beliefs over the decades? Joseph Smith taught that Native Americans came from Jerusalem, which was debunked by genetic research. He taught an "everlasting covenant" of polygamy which lasted no more than 50 years, after having written scripture in the Book of Mormon that said polygamy was a detestable sin, when the Book of Mormon is self-proclaiming as the most true of any book on earth. On top of that, the Book of Mormon itself, while having been claimed to be the most true book on the planet, has been edited numerous times. With all of this evidence against the religion, how can a person really be sure that the spirit they're listening to is God's Holy Spirit? After all, hearing something from the Holy Spirit shouldn't just make you 'feel good' inside. A lot of things that make us FEEL good are in fact not so good for us. It takes discernment and reasoning to really know if that good feeling is true or not. What's more, I would have to ask why a prophet is even needed in these days? Wasn't the work Jesus Christ did enough? Why do we need someone else to talk to God for us, when the Holy Spirit was given freely to mankind after the death of Christ?

[keito-ninja]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

keito-ninja

I'm not to great with verse references, but I think that a person is worthy because of what they do, what Jesus did, and what is in their heart. A person's actions can count for or against them. The atonement can wipe out sins if a person repents. As for your heart-- I believe that the most important thing is not which church you belong to, but whether you are a kind and loving person. Of course belonging to the correct religion means that you're more likely to be steering your life in the right direction, but if there's say a prideful snobby Christian versus say a kind selfless Buddhist, I think that the kind selfless one will be more worthy of heaven.

I guess I've developed this opinion because of the example of Jesus Christ-- he always loved everyone, no matter who they were, and he always looked past who they were on the outside and only looked at who they were on the outside. The story where He drives the money-makers from the temple comes to mind-- on the outside they were "doing God's will" but on the inside they knew that they were perverting the temple grounds and exploiting the people. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but they did it anyways, and that, I think, is one of the main reasons it made Christ so upset.

As I read over this last point, I can imagine what you might say next. Perhaps you would compare the LDS church to those money makers, and you might ask "How do you know your church isn't the one perverting sacred things and exploiting members?" "Why do you believe that your church is the one that should be trusted and followed?" This is where I have trouble explaining. I can explain why I have my own opinions based on my belief in the LDS church, the same way someone else might justify their opinions based on what the Bible says, but I don't know how to explain why I have such a strong belief in my religion in particular.

Maybe I just feel like I'm so bad at explaining because I'm afraid that other people will just brush it off and say that it's not substantial enough evidence to justify my faith. I haven't lived a very remarkable life. There is no one miraculous experience that confirmed my testimony in my church. God has worked in my life in very subtle ways, so I can't be sure if anyone will understand when I try to explain them. For all it's worth, here I go:

I believe in the LDS church because so many of its principles ring true for me on a profound level. I believe because I have felt the Holy Spirit confirming to me it is true. I believe because it teaches me of the plan of salvation and happiness that God has set up for us, which is much clearer and truer than the vague idea that other churches have of our purpose on Earth. I believe because I really do feel we are God's children, and like all children we have the potential to grow to become like him. I believe because it seems only natural to me that God would never leave us in this confusing time without a living prophet to guide our way. I believe because it seems only natural to me that the Israelites were not the only people with the gospel, and that God would stay with any people who loved him and wanted to keep his commandments (i.e. the Nephites). I believe because it is only natural that God would want us to have more records and scripture from other cultures (i.e. B of M) so that we could have a clearer idea of his gospel amidst all the conflicts and disagreements that arise from some vague spots of the gospel. I believe because I find it true that families should be together forever, not married "till death do you part".

I suppose I could go on, but the basic point is that it "feels" true to me. I don't know whether anyone else can consider that "evidence".

What I have trouble understanding, though, is WHY you choose to follow the prophet you do. Does he perform prophecy or miracles? And how valid can he really be, being the prophet of a religion who has repeatedly failed in prophecy and changed so many foundational beliefs over the decades? Joseph Smith taught that Native Americans came from Jerusalem, which was debunked by genetic research. He taught an "everlasting covenant" of polygamy which lasted no more than 50 years, after having written scripture in the Book of Mormon that said polygamy was a detestable sin, when the Book of Mormon is self-proclaiming as the most true of any book on earth. On top of that, the Book of Mormon itself, while having been claimed to be the most true book on the planet, has been edited numerous times. With all of this evidence against the religion, how can a person really be sure that the spirit they're listening to is God's Holy Spirit? After all, hearing something from the Holy Spirit shouldn't just make you 'feel good' inside. A lot of things that make us FEEL good are in fact not so good for us. It takes discernment and reasoning to really know if that good feeling is true or not. What's more, I would have to ask why a prophet is even needed in these days? Wasn't the work Jesus Christ did enough? Why do we need someone else to talk to God for us, when the Holy Spirit was given freely to mankind after the death of Christ?

>_< I'm still having troubles explaining. . .. I honestly don't know how to help you understand my reasons for believing in my church. Some things about the church really confuse me-- for example, the whole polygamy deal. I can't justify it, I don't know why it ever popped up. I can't think of any good reason that can't be shot down by someone else. My faith isn't rooted in things like that. It's like when people ask how I can believe that God can be loving and forgiving when he killed so many people in the Old Testament. I don't know why he did it-- it seems cruel and wrong, but I love and trust God so I don't worry about the wired things he's done in the past. Even if you don't agree with me about my church, maybe you can relate to the feeling if you've ever been in this situation.

Until the last of Christ's apostles died there had always been prophets in the world, leading people, guiding them, receiving revelation, answering questions and clearing up confusion about the gospel. These days are full of confusion and controversy about religion amoung other things, and leaving us without a prophet is like leaving us in the dark. I don't think God would do that.

As for the Holy Spirit, it's not just a simple "feel good" sensation. It's deep, personal, profound, and true. It's not the sort of thing that I can doubt the sincerity of, and I don't know how to explain it to someone who hasn't experienced it. >_<