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Kiritsu
Thus said Brigham Young:

"Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them--something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them--namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance in to the mansion where God and Christ are--I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation--the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim--"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."

Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses
Volume 7,Page 289, 1869.


Wow...

It's no wonder you guys piss off the rest of Christianity so much. Sounds like Briggy there considers Joe Smith as important as Jesus Christ.
GlassShard


Wow...

It's no wonder you guys piss off the rest of Christianity so much. Sounds like Briggy there considers Joe Smith as important as Jesus Christ.


We respect Joseph Smith for the amazing things he did in his life, but we do not worship him. I've heard it said before that "Mormons aren't Christians, they worship that Joseph Smith guy"

This simply is not true. It's the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints, not the Church of Joseph Smith. Read up on his life and you'd know why we love him. but Christ is the leader of our religion and it is Him whom we worship.
GlassShard


Wow...

It's no wonder you guys piss off the rest of Christianity so much. Sounds like Briggy there considers Joe Smith as important as Jesus Christ.

More so. It is by Briggys ideal that only Joe can allow people into Heaven. Christ has no word in it...
Laniston
We respect Joseph Smith for the amazing things he did in his life, but we do not worship him. I've heard it said before that "Mormons aren't Christians, they worship that Joseph Smith guy"

This simply is not true. It's the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints, not the Church of Joseph Smith. Read up on his life and you'd know why we love him. but Christ is the leader of our religion and it is Him whom we worship.
I have read up on him. You have only read the Church Documents on him, so it's no wonder why you would 'love' him. Don't you think that Church Documents on a Church Leader would be somewhat...biased?
In the documents that were given up on him, not from the Church, he is shown to be a liar and an a-moral man. He would send other men off on Mission, and they would come home to find their Wives in Josephs Bed! If he were so great, why couldnt he send his own sorry a** off to spread his message?
Takai_desu_yo
GlassShard


Wow...

It's no wonder you guys piss off the rest of Christianity so much. Sounds like Briggy there considers Joe Smith as important as Jesus Christ.

More so. It is by Briggys ideal that only Joe can allow people into Heaven. Christ has no word in it...
Laniston
We respect Joseph Smith for the amazing things he did in his life, but we do not worship him. I've heard it said before that "Mormons aren't Christians, they worship that Joseph Smith guy"

This simply is not true. It's the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints, not the Church of Joseph Smith. Read up on his life and you'd know why we love him. but Christ is the leader of our religion and it is Him whom we worship.
I have read up on him. You have only read the Church Documents on him, so it's no wonder why you would 'love' him. Don't you think that Church Documents on a Church Leader would be somewhat...biased?
In the documents that were given up on him, not from the Church, he is shown to be a liar and an a-moral man. He would send other men off on Mission, and they would come home to find their Wives in Josephs Bed! If he were so great, why couldnt he send his own sorry a** off to spread his message?


um...that's slander right there. it's wrong, and you shouldn't have posted it. I didn't say anything about documents either. No one in the LDS church worships Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was not a liar and a-moral. People hated him because he said things that they felt couldn't happen, or didn't believe in. Many people made, and make, attempts to disprove everything he says and make him out to be a liar.

Of course there are "documents" making claims that Joseph Smith was a liar. Doesn't mean they are correct. I mean, there are documents saying scientifically that black people are less intelligent than white people. There are documents "proving" that Aryans are superior to everyone else. You gonna believe them? Just because they offer "conclusive" evidence? I can argue quite effectively that the holocaust never happened, even though it did.

People sure are quick to dismiss something as fraud and lies when it doesn't fit their own moral standards. I'm sure it's much easier to dismiss LDS people as fools than it is to maybe respect their beliefs, even if you don't share in them.
Laniston
um...that's slander right there. it's wrong, and you shouldn't have posted it.
It's only slander if it's a Lie. And you can't prove he was a good person, without using Church Documents. You would have a better chance proving WWII never happened...

As for Evidence that he was a Liar, allow me to point you towards a well respected Website, ran by a former Leader of the LDS church, and still Upstanding Christian.
Takai_desu_yo
Laniston
um...that's slander right there. it's wrong, and you shouldn't have posted it.
It's only slander if it's a Lie. And you can't prove he was a good person, without using Church Documents. You would have a better chance proving WWII never happened...

As for Evidence that he was a Liar, allow me to point you towards a well respected Website, ran by a former Leader of the LDS church, and still Upstanding Christian.


Thank you Takai, I have never read that site before. I would like to share something that I posted in a different forum. . .

Darkslider
Мой друг послал мне связь этим утром к вебсайту, который помог мне помещать некоторые вещи в перспективу. Для любого из Вас, кто посетил участок(сайт) Josephlied.com, Вы знают то, о чем я говорю. Я оставил Мормонскую церковь, когда мне было 16, основанный на чувствах, и идеях, которые были "Не моралью". Однако, многие из вещей, с которыми я нашел проблему(выпуск), никогда не обсуждались. До сих пор. Майк, из Штата Юта, представил ФАКТИЧЕСКИ ОСНОВАННЫЙ аргумент(спор), и неопровержимое доказательство, из собственных источников Церкви.... То мормонство ложен. Это базировалось на лжи. Это было изменено(заменено), чтобы соответствовать идее "Bretheren" относительно того, каково это должно быть. Никогда снова, буду я сомневаться относительно моих инстинктов.
Takai_desu_yo
Laniston
um...that's slander right there. it's wrong, and you shouldn't have posted it.
It's only slander if it's a Lie. And you can't prove he was a good person, without using Church Documents. You would have a better chance proving WWII never happened...

As for Evidence that he was a Liar, allow me to point you towards a well respected Website, ran by a former Leader of the LDS church, and still Upstanding Christian.


For one, there are no former leaders of the LDS church alive today. so your claim that this website is run by one is an obvious fallacy. The section you also link to, is making Joseph Smith a liar how? From what I can gather, he was given plates, and thought they were authentic and wanted to translate them. So, he's human and not all-knowing all-seeing. That's not what a prophet is. In any case, in no point does it say the plates were translated INCORRECTLY, just that they were later revealed to be made by the men who wanted to trick Joseph Smith.

In fact, this is evidence FOR Joseph Smith, as since they were translated, and it doesn't say incorrectly so we must think they were done correctly, then they were translated by a man with a fourth grade education, who couldn't possibly know reformed egyptian (the language the gold plates of the book of mormon, and these forged plates were written in). Isn't that funny?

As for the scroll thing, Read this. http://www.bibleman.net/Joseph_Smith_Papyri.htm

And what makes you think the only documents I read are church ones? What makes you think that only the Church feels Joseph Smith was a good person?
Surrogate_Self
I still find religion...binding. But I have a mormon friend or two so it's good to hear this stuff without having my bud Joe trying to convert me. Are all mormons that forceful? Is it part of the religion to try to "recruit"? 'Cause it's not as if I'm busting to become catholic or something and I need to be wrangled before I pick a religion, but it seems like everytime I turn around people are trying to make me mormon. Some of it seems a bit dodgy, and I couldn't give up caffeine anyhow.


no just some people. hope your not offended
I went ahead and read a bunch more of that website. It's got a lot of holes, and fills them with opinions. The part on the first vision is good. First of all, that wasn't the one and only vision Joseph Smith had. ((we'll say claimed to have had for your sakes)). He only saw God and Jesus together once, and in the grove of trees. The quote mentioning by the ministering of angels, is that a human body cannot withstand the glory of God and live, so his body would have had to be changed to be in their presence. Thus, angels were required. The holy angel is a common referrence in those days to Christ.

Other angels did visit Joseph, and they would repeat the same things that Christ said to Joseph over and over. Not only that, but many of those quotes sound quite different if you read everything before and after them, also filling in the numerous "..." that are there. Furthermore, the Journals aren't even texts that the Church uses to obtain doctrinal information. They also aren't published by the LDS church. The website I found that has them all on there have multiple spelling errors and odd glitches in font. Since copies of the book are reportedly scarce due to the high cost of them, you can't even confirm that they are accurately copied. With this medium, you can change anything you want to make anyone sound like anything, and then quote it. Even if it is copied properly((the referred quotes are at the least )), it still doesn't offer evidence as it doesn't use the entire section, just bits and pieces glued together from a few of the MANY talks those people gave.


I see nothing on that website that can conclusively prove any of it's theories.
Miss Cherie
Quo Girl
Talk about the world being filled with carnally-minded, waste of flesh and bones "human beings" that don't know the difference between "of the world" and "in the world."


Darlin', did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or are you always so articulate? Come now, what standard are you judging these people by?


(srry can't resist sayin it, my mom always says it to me)

"judge not least ye be judged"
Laniston
I went ahead and read a bunch more of that website. It's got a lot of holes, and fills them with opinions. The part on the first vision is good. First of all, that wasn't the one and only vision Joseph Smith had. ((we'll say claimed to have had for your sakes)). He only saw God and Jesus together once, and in the grove of trees. The quote mentioning by the ministering of angels, is that a human body cannot withstand the glory of God and live, so his body would have had to be changed to be in their presence. Thus, angels were required. The holy angel is a common referrence in those days to Christ.

Other angels did visit Joseph, and they would repeat the same things that Christ said to Joseph over and over. Not only that, but many of those quotes sound quite different if you read everything before and after them, also filling in the numerous "..." that are there. Furthermore, the Journals aren't even texts that the Church uses to obtain doctrinal information. They also aren't published by the LDS church. The website I found that has them all on there have multiple spelling errors and odd glitches in font. Since copies of the book are reportedly scarce due to the high cost of them, you can't even confirm that they are accurately copied. With this medium, you can change anything you want to make anyone sound like anything, and then quote it. Even if it is copied properly((the referred quotes are at the least )), it still doesn't offer evidence as it doesn't use the entire section, just bits and pieces glued together from a few of the MANY talks those people gave.


I see nothing on that website that can conclusively prove any of it's theories.


Really? You know, I am a bit sceptical of anything of this nature, and I found to be as close to correct, as to not warrant second thought.

Let's pick your last post apart bit by bit.

Laniston
I went ahead and read a bunch more of that website. It's got a lot of holes, and fills them with opinions.


What opinions? Did you miss the site? Were you blinded by your inability to read English? Those are the only reason I can see that you would say something like this after actually reading the site.

Laniston
The part on the first vision is good. First of all, that wasn't the one and only vision Joseph Smith had. ((we'll say claimed to have had for your sakes)). He only saw God and Jesus together once, and in the grove of trees. The quote mentioning by the ministering of angels, is that a human body cannot withstand the glory of God and live, so his body would have had to be changed to be in their presence. Thus, angels were required. The holy angel is a common referrence in those days to Christ.


Again, I have to ask. . . . Did you miss the site? The point wasn't that angels were there, the point was that the story changed every time he told it. The point was that his family was told one thing, the general members where told another, and the patsy little vision that is now held so holy? It is a completely different "vision" than Joseph claimed to have had.

Laniston
Other angels did visit Joseph, and they would repeat the same things that Christ said to Joseph over and over.


The point is that he didn't claim to see Jesus. Not for many years. So, how does this pertain to the subject at hand?

Laniston
Not only that, but many of those quotes sound quite different if you read everything before and after them, also filling in the numerous "..." that are there. Furthermore, the Journals aren't even texts that the Church uses to obtain doctrinal information. They also aren't published by the LDS church. The website I found that has them all on there have multiple spelling errors and odd glitches in font. Since copies of the book are reportedly scarce due to the high cost of them, you can't even confirm that they are accurately copied. With this medium, you can change anything you want to make anyone sound like anything, and then quote it. Even if it is copied properly((the referred quotes are at the least )), it still doesn't offer evidence as it doesn't use the entire section, just bits and pieces glued together from a few of the MANY talks those people gave.


Yes, let's just ignore the fact that those Journals became the D&C. Let's just ignore the fact that the Church holds these journals up as doctrine. Yup, ignore those facts, and you are right on the money.

Laniston
I see nothing on that website that can conclusively prove any of it's theories.


Besides the math? Besides the Church coming out and saying it? Besides the scientific proof presented by mormon scientists? How much more proof do you need? I ran his numbers on the "Population of the People" Do you know that there is only a 0.0018% chance that any of his numbers are wrong? I ran them myself, and I found nothing to contradict them.

This wasn't some disgruntled, excommunicated member of the LDS faith who is going off because he is a sinner. This is a member who was in a position of Leadership, who did the research on his own, and came to the conclusion that "Based off of the facts" the church was wrong.
Laniston
Takai_desu_yo
GlassShard


Wow...

It's no wonder you guys piss off the rest of Christianity so much. Sounds like Briggy there considers Joe Smith as important as Jesus Christ.

More so. It is by Briggys ideal that only Joe can allow people into Heaven. Christ has no word in it...
Laniston
We respect Joseph Smith for the amazing things he did in his life, but we do not worship him. I've heard it said before that "Mormons aren't Christians, they worship that Joseph Smith guy"

This simply is not true. It's the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints, not the Church of Joseph Smith. Read up on his life and you'd know why we love him. but Christ is the leader of our religion and it is Him whom we worship.
I have read up on him. You have only read the Church Documents on him, so it's no wonder why you would 'love' him. Don't you think that Church Documents on a Church Leader would be somewhat...biased?
In the documents that were given up on him, not from the Church, he is shown to be a liar and an a-moral man. He would send other men off on Mission, and they would come home to find their Wives in Josephs Bed! If he were so great, why couldnt he send his own sorry a** off to spread his message?


um...that's slander right there. it's wrong, and you shouldn't have posted it. I didn't say anything about documents either. No one in the LDS church worships Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was not a liar and a-moral. People hated him because he said things that they felt couldn't happen, or didn't believe in. Many people made, and make, attempts to disprove everything he says and make him out to be a liar.

Of course there are "documents" making claims that Joseph Smith was a liar. Doesn't mean they are correct. I mean, there are documents saying scientifically that black people are less intelligent than white people. There are documents "proving" that Aryans are superior to everyone else. You gonna believe them? Just because they offer "conclusive" evidence? I can argue quite effectively that the holocaust never happened, even though it did.

People sure are quick to dismiss something as fraud and lies when it doesn't fit their own moral standards. I'm sure it's much easier to dismiss LDS people as fools than it is to maybe respect their beliefs, even if you don't share in them.


Spoken like a TBM! W00t. wink
Laniston
Takai_desu_yo
Laniston
um...that's slander right there. it's wrong, and you shouldn't have posted it.
It's only slander if it's a Lie. And you can't prove he was a good person, without using Church Documents. You would have a better chance proving WWII never happened...

As for Evidence that he was a Liar, allow me to point you towards a well respected Website, ran by a former Leader of the LDS church, and still Upstanding Christian.


For one, there are no former leaders of the LDS church alive today. so your claim that this website is run by one is an obvious fallacy. The section you also link to, is making Joseph Smith a liar how? From what I can gather, he was given plates, and thought they were authentic and wanted to translate them. So, he's human and not all-knowing all-seeing. That's not what a prophet is. In any case, in no point does it say the plates were translated INCORRECTLY, just that they were later revealed to be made by the men who wanted to trick Joseph Smith.

In fact, this is evidence FOR Joseph Smith, as since they were translated, and it doesn't say incorrectly so we must think they were done correctly, then they were translated by a man with a fourth grade education, who couldn't possibly know reformed egyptian (the language the gold plates of the book of mormon, and these forged plates were written in). Isn't that funny?


What's even funnier is that the characters on the Kinderhook plates were supposedly the same as the Book of Mormon as you pointed out, according to Smith.

Quote:
...just that they were later revealed to be made by the men...


Yes they were, so how could these men who created the plates have known how to write a language they knew nothing of? Silly guy. blaugh Unless you suppose these men knew how to write reformed Egyptian then it's obvious the characters were gibberish. How could characters which meant nothing at all be "translated correctly"?
Quote:

As for the scroll thing, Read this. http://www.bibleman.net/Joseph_Smith_Papyri.htm


There isn't a whole lot there. It barely scratches the issue, heh.
Quote:

And what makes you think the only documents I read are church ones? What makes you think that only the Church feels Joseph Smith was a good person?


Well in the first place, the Church wouldn't want you reading anything except Church documents, or in other words, material which is faith promoting, so it's a reasonable assumption to make. As to your second, it's a matter of the Church emphasizing this and de-emphasizing that in its history to make Joseph Smith and others out to be this great, altruistic individual. LDS scholars have complained about the Church doing this--that is, leaving out the less favorable facts of history and embellishing on the positive, faith promoting aspects. Why have they complained? Because they feel history should be raw and unbiased in its re-telling, a view most of the Church leadership does not share with its more scholarly minded membership.
Laniston
Furthermore, the Journals aren't even texts that the Church uses to obtain doctrinal information. They also aren't published by the LDS church.


The Journals... that is, I assume, Journal of Discourses, was published by the LDS Church for I believe about 30 years. It is full of sermons which Mormons at the time would have considered full of doctrine. Brigham Young the Prophet and Seer, stated that when he spoke on matters of religion, it was as good as doctrine.


Quote:

I see nothing on that website that can conclusively prove any of it's theories.


Naturally. It's all a matter of faith after all, isn't it.
from:

http://www.religioustolerance.org

"A friend of Smith, Martin Harris, attempted to authenticate the tablets by taking copies of some of the inscriptions to Professor Charles Anton and is said to have received verbal confirmation that the tablets were written in "reformed Egyptian" hieroglyphics. No such language exists. Prof. Anton later denied making this statement, and wrote that the symbols that he saw were a combination of Greek, Hebrew, inverted or sideways Roman letters, and elements from a Mexican calendar."

"An American, James Adair, wrote a book A history of the American Indians in 1775. It attempted to prove that natives had descended from the ancient Israelites. This theme is also found in the Book of Mormon. On Pages 377 & 378 of Adair's book, there is a series of phrases describing Indian fortifications. These phrases are identical to the phrases which describe the construction of defensive forts in Chapters 48-50 and 53 of the Book of Alma. (The Book of Alma is one part of the Book of Mormon.) This would indicate that Joseph Smith copied parts of Adair's book verbatim into the Book of Mormon."

"The LDS church believes that the Book of Mormon was translated literally from the inscriptions on the golden tablets which were made about the fourth century. But the Book contains many passages containing phrases that are word-for-word identical to those found in the King James version of the Bible. The latter was completed in 1611 CE (over a millennium later). Some critics feel that this evidence proves that portions of the Book of Mormon were copied from the KJV Bible, not translated from the tablets."

"There are several instances where forgeries by Christian scribes which appear in the King James version of the Bible also appear in the Book of Mormon. Two examples are: 1 John 5:7 which appears in 3 Nephi 11:27,36
Mark 16:16 which appears in 3 Nephi 11:33-34"

" There are several instances where mistranslations in the King James Version of the Bible are copied over into the Book of Mormon: Isaiah 4:5 and 2 Nephi 14:5 refer to a "defense"; it should read "canopy"
Isaiah 5:25 and 2 Nephi 15:25 refer to the word "torn"; it should read "refuse". "

"Some critics claim that Nephi had a compass when they traveled to America. Compasses were not invented at the time of their journey (600 BCE). Others point out that the compass mentioned in the book of Mormon was a spiritual guidance device, not like the modern direction finding tool. It was a magical device which was operated by faith. It directed believers to game, food, water, etc."

"The Book of Ether (15:29-31) describes a battle in which Shiz was wounded and fainted from loss of blood. An opponent cut off the Shiz' head. Shiz then raised up upon his hands, fell, struggled for breath and died. Both the act of raising himself and breathing requires a working connection to a brain, which had previously been severed. So it is unreasonable to expect that Shiz could have struggled for breath as the book indicates. However, since his spinal reflexes might still have been intact, Shiz might have appeared to an observer as attempting to rise up and breathe."

How can he try to breathe if he has no head?

"According to the Book of Mormon, Hill Cumorah "refers to a hill and surrounding area where the final battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place, resulting in the annihilation of the Nephite people." 8 LDS President Harold B. Lee wrote: "On these hills there transpired some of the greatest events in the world's history. This is the place where the great dramatic events which brought about the restoration of the gospel took place..." The hill is currently owned by the LDS. The Hill Cumorah Pageant is held there every summer. If the battle occurred here, then one would expect that many artifacts from the battle would have been found by archeologists. In fact, none have been discovered. This indicates that a battle never occurred at this location. The Hill Cumorah in New York state where the plates were allegedly found does not appear to be a defensive fortification, but rather an Indian burial mound similar to many others in the area. It is important to bear in mind that Joseph Smith never claimed that this location was the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon."

"Mormon beliefs about the origins of Native Americans do not agree with findings by genetic researchers. With few exceptions, Native Americans are most closely related (in terms of blood factors, genetics, and physical characteristics) to the peoples of Mongolia and elsewhere in Asia. Their ancestors did not come from the Middle East."

Smith "...claimed that he received divine inspiration, not in writing a new book of scripture, but instead in having discovered and translated an existing ancient work." 2 He would have had to have been divinely inspired, because only a few academics could read some ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic text at that time. Translation only became possible following the discovery of the Rosetta Stone in 1799-JUL, in Rosetta, Egypt (near Alexandria). The stone included a decree that was translated into three languages: Ancient Greek, Egyptian hieroglyphics, and Demotic (a later Egyptian script). The Greek writings could be translated by Egyptologists. Over time, this led to the decipherment of the other two. By 1822, Jean François Champollion (1790-1832), the "Father of the Decipherment of Hieroglyphs," 3 was able to identify the names of a few pharaohs on some monuments. 4 The ability to translate hieroglyphics symbol-by-symbol came much later -- after Smith claimed that he translated the Book of Abraham.

M. Theodule Deveria, a French Egyptologist inspected the copies of the original images on the papyri. He concluded that they were typical Egyptian funerary documents. He was able to decipher the name of the priest who authored the work, and of some Egyptian gods. He "dismissed Joseph's explanations as rambling nonsense. His comments first appeared in French in a two-volume work by Jules Remy entitled Voyage au Pays des Mormons (Paris, 1860)." 1

"In 1912, the Rt. Reverend Franklin S. Spalding, Episcopal Bishop of Utah, sent copies of the three facsimiles from the Book to world-class Egyptologists and Semitists. Eight responded with uniformly negative appraisals:
the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City: "Joseph Smith's interpretation of these cuts is a farrago of nonsense from beginning to end...five minutes study in an Egyptian gallery of any museum should be enough to convince any educated man of the clumsiness of the imposture."
"...difficult to deal seriously with Smith's impudent fraud."
"Smith has turned the Goddess into a king and Osiris into Abraham."
"...very clearly demonstrates that he (Joseph Smith) was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian Writing and civilization."
"...the attempts to guess a meaning are too absurd to be noticed. It may be safely said that there is not one single word that is true in these explanations." "

Meh.

Quote:
In fact, this is evidence FOR Joseph Smith, as since they were translated, and it doesn't say incorrectly so we must think they were done correctly, then they were translated by a man with a fourth grade education, who couldn't possibly know reformed egyptian (the language the gold plates of the book of mormon, and these forged plates were written in). Isn't that funny?


Or maybe they wern't translated and Smith was just a loony, since as stated above "reformed egyptian" is completely nonexistant.

And some of Smith's false prophecys, from: http://www.interlog.com/~mathewa/false-mormon-prophecies.htm

"SALE OF BOOK OF MORMON COPYRIGHT: Winter 1829-1830. Comp Hist 1:165 Joseph had a revelation that Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery were to go to Toronto to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon to raise money.
FULFILLMENT: They went, according to the revelation, but were completely unsuccessful. Joseph Smith "inquired of God" and was told that some "revelations" are not from God. David Whitmer reports this incident in his book An Address To All Believers In Christ, Richmond, 1887, photo reprinting by Utah Lighthouse Ministry, pp 30-31. "

"WICKED WILL BURN, ALL PROPHECIES FULFILLED: September 1830. D&C 29:9-11. "For the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand" when the wicked will burn, all prophecies will be fulfilled, and Jesus will return for a thousand years.
FULFILLMENT: This is another prophecy such as Ezekiel 12:27-28 referred to: if the hour were nigh and the day soon at hand, this surely would have been fulfilled within 160 years. By no means have all prophecies been fulfilled, and many cannot now be fulfilled."

"LIBERTY JAIL PROPHECIES: March 20, 1839. D&C 121. This is "Prayer and Prophecies" from Joseph Smith while he was a prisoner in the jail at Liberty, Missouri. It contains several prophecies:

he will be avenged of his enemies by the sword (v. 5) (this is phrased as a prayer, but God had promised Joseph Smith that his prayers would be answered; he need only ask. D&C 29:6)
his friends will not charge him with transgressions (v. 10)
the hopes of those who do charge him with transgression shall have their hope blasted (v. 11)
God will "change the times and seasons" (v. 12)
Joseph Smith's enemies will be taken "in their own craftiness" (v. 12)
"not many years hence, ... [his enemies] and their posterity shall be swept from under heaven, saith God, that not one of them is left to stand by the wall." (v. 15)
knowledge will be poured down from heaven upon the heads of the Mormons.
FULFILLMENT: None of these prophecies came to pass. Joseph Smith's enemies were not destroyed "by the sword;" rather, the Mormons were successfully driven out of Missouri. His friends did charge him with transgressions within a few years, and those charges (in The Nauvoo Expositor) resulted directly in his arrest and destruction, as his enemies wished. God did not "change the times and seasons," whatever that may mean. In general, the enemies of the Mormons achieved their goal of driving the Mormons out and destroying Joseph Smith. Their posterity was not destroyed, but survived. At least, there is no record of the anti-Mormon Missourians being swept away. And what knowledge has been "poured down from heaven" upon the Mormons since 1839?

(One might wonder why Smith spent so long in prison; according to the Book of Mormon , Mormon 8:24, faith can make prison walls tumble.)"

"Feb 14, 1835. HC 2:182. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (i.e., about 1891). This prophecy also occurs in his diary for April 6, 1843 and HC 5:336. See also D&C 130:14-17. Joseph Smith prophesies that "there of those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." He prophesies "in the name of the Lord God - let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (The official historians have deleted the last phrase, beginning with "48 years" from the church history, but it is contained in the original diary.) The version in D&C 130 is phrased negatively, i.e., Christ will not come before 1890. It is also made conditional on Joseph Smith living to the age of 85. Joseph Smith says (v 16) that it might merely mean that if he lives to 85 he will go where Christ is, and therefore see his face. But that interpretation would not make sense if the revelation is in response to Joseph Smith's inquiry about the time of the second coming (v 14).

FULFILLMENT: The second coming did not occur about 1891, and the Church does not claim that it did. Nor has it occurred since. Joseph Smith did not live to be 85 years old. God must have known that he would not. Why would God make a revelation conditional upon an event which he knew would never happen? "

And the biggie:

"JOSEPH SMITH WILL BE SUCCEEDED BY HIS SON JOSEPH: April 22, 1839 and Aug 27, 1834. Joseph Smith says that he will be succeeded by his oldest son, Joseph Smith III. [Quinn pp 630, 638]

FULFILLMENT: Joseph Smith III left the main body of Mormons when they went to Utah under Brigham Young. Thus, according to the Utah church, he did not become his father's successor in the Utah church. He became president of the Reorganized Church in 1860."

Let's see someone explain THAT.

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