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Triste Morningstar
Eteponge
Darkslider
And, Eteponge, just because I am a fanatic when it comes to proper spelling and grammar. . . . Spell magic the way it should be spelled. I mean this with all the non-aggravating fibers in my body. Both of them.

And you're talking to a person who has OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). xd

Although it no longer has the same control over me as it use to, I have "battled" it for awhile now in the right direction.

Anyway...

M A G I C K

xp


Oh... so, you're Obsessively a ******** genius?

And batshit insane to boot! blaugh
Eteponge
Triste Morningstar
Eteponge
Darkslider
And, Eteponge, just because I am a fanatic when it comes to proper spelling and grammar. . . . Spell magic the way it should be spelled. I mean this with all the non-aggravating fibers in my body. Both of them.

And you're talking to a person who has OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). xd

Although it no longer has the same control over me as it use to, I have "battled" it for awhile now in the right direction.

Anyway...

M A G I C K

xp


Oh... so, you're Obsessively a ******** genius?

And batshit insane to boot! blaugh

tw00t!
Miss Cherie's avatar

Melodious Pirate


Not this again...

Quote:
Magic-

1. The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural.
2.
1. The practice of using charms, spells, or rituals to attempt to produce supernatural effects or control events in nature.
2. The charms, spells, and rituals so used.
3. The exercise of sleight of hand or conjuring for entertainment.
4. A mysterious quality of enchantment: “For me the names of those men breathed the magic of the past” (Max Beerbohm).


adj.

1. Of, relating to, or invoking the supernatural: “stubborn unlaid ghost/That breaks his magic chains at curfew time” (John Milton).
2. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.


tr.v. mag·icked, mag·ick·ing, mag·ics

To produce or make by or as if by magic.


[Middle English magik, from Old French magique, from Late Latin magica, from Latin magic, from Greek magik, from feminine of magikos, of the Magi, magical, from magos, magician, magus. See magus.]


Quote:
Magick-

An action or effort undertaken because of a personal need to effect change, especially as associated with Wicca or Wiccan beliefs.


Like Sinner said, there is no need for that k. Note how these words compare 'magic' in its different forms...

magic -> magicked -> magicking -> magics

frolic -> frolicked -> frolicking -> frolics

panic -> panicked -> panicking -> panics

mimic -> mimicked -> mimicking -> mimics
Woodlock
TheNinjaGod
However in the beginning it talks about how Nephi, the good son, stole a steel sword in roughly 591 b.c.. Which is fine and all except the iron age started in 1000 b.c., and at that time steel was rare and could only be processed in incredibly small amounts.


You do realize that B.C. dates go backward, so 1000 B.C. is before 591, by 409 years. That's long enough for it to become more commonplace.

1000 B.C. ----> 591 B.C. ----> 0 A.D. ----> 591 A.D. ----> 2004 A.D.
Yes, but the Bullshit Alarm still went off for a Reason. How many Native Americans knew how to Forge Steel Weapons? And, I don't know the accuracy, but it was IRON weapons that were forged 1000 B.C. Steel came around MUCH later on. It wasn't completely Purified until 1400 A.D.

Ms. Cherrie: Where ya been? How's your Missionary friend doing?
<center>It's time for another taste of Brigham Young's preaching! w00t.

One of the greatest queries on the minds of the Saints is to understand the nature, the principle of the foundation of our existence. To say nothing about what has been, if you will follow out that which is before you, you can learn all about it. I have a notion to tell you, thought I have not time to say much about it now. I will, however, just tell to you the simple story relating to the exaltation of man in the celestial kingdom of God. We will take Joseph for instance: he is faithful to his calling--has filled his mission to this earth, and sealed his testimony with his blood; he has done the work his Father gave him to do, and will soon come to the resurrection. His spirit is waiting for the resurrection of the body, which will soon be. But has he the power to resurrect that body? He has not. Who has this power? Those that have already passed through the resurrection--who have been resurrected in their time and season by some person else, and have been appointed to that authority just as you Elders have with regard to your authority to baptise.
You have not the power to baptise yourselves, neither have you power to resurrect yourselves; and you could not legally baptise a second person for the remission of sins until some person first baptised you and ordained you to this authority. So with those that hold the keys of the resurrection, to resurrect the Saints. Joseph will come up in his turn, receive his body again, and continue his mission in the eternal worlds until he carries it out to perfection, with all the rest of the faithful to be made perfect with those who have lived before, and those who shall live after; and when this work is finished, and it is offered to the Father, then they will be crowned and receive keys and powers by which they will be capable of organizing worlds. What will they organize first? Were I to tell you, I should certainly spoil all the baby resurrection that Elder Hyde and others ever preached, as sure as the world.
After men have got their exaltations and their crowns--have become Gods, even the sons of God--are made Kings of kings and Lords of lords, they have the power then of propagating their species in spirit; and that is the first of their operations with regard to organizing a world. Power is then given to them to organize the elements, and then commence the orgainzation of tabernacles. How can they do it? Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children.
This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my father; this I will explain to you at some furure time; but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.
I am on the way to becoming of the those characters, and am nobody in the world but Brigham Young. I never have professed to be brother Joseph, but brother Brigham, trying to do good to this people.

-Brigham Young, J of D, Vol 6, page 275, 1852.
Miss Cherie's avatar

Melodious Pirate

Takai_desu_yo
Woodlock
TheNinjaGod
However in the beginning it talks about how Nephi, the good son, stole a steel sword in roughly 591 b.c.. Which is fine and all except the iron age started in 1000 b.c., and at that time steel was rare and could only be processed in incredibly small amounts.


You do realize that B.C. dates go backward, so 1000 B.C. is before 591, by 409 years. That's long enough for it to become more commonplace.

1000 B.C. ----> 591 B.C. ----> 0 A.D. ----> 591 A.D. ----> 2004 A.D.
Yes, but the Bullshit Alarm still went off for a Reason. How many Native Americans knew how to Forge Steel Weapons? And, I don't know the accuracy, but it was IRON weapons that were forged 1000 B.C. Steel came around MUCH later on. It wasn't completely Purified until 1400 A.D.

Ms. Cherrie: Where ya been? How's your Missionary friend doing?


The arguments were getting tiresome. Besides, get with the times... the name's Miss Cherie. My missionary "friend" got transferred away twice because of his conduct.
Studying the fallacies of Catholicism tonight and noting some similarities with Mormonism.

The Pope is said to be infallible whenever he makes an official decree on matters of faith and morals. According to Catholic doctrine, it is impossible for the Pope to teach false doctrine. Catholics are expected to obey the Pope without question even when he is not making an "infallible" statement about doctrine. They are expected to submit their wills and minds to the Pope without question. ("Catechism" 892, 2037, 2050)

The claim for papal infallibility does not stand up to the test of history. For example, Pope Zosimus (417-418 A.D.) reversed the pronouncement of a previous pope. He also retracted a doctrinal pronouncement that he himself had previously made. Pope Honorious was condemned as a heretic by the Sixth Ecumenical Council (680-681 A.D.). He was also condemned as a heretic by Pope Leo II, as well as by every other pope until the eleventh century. So here we have "infallible" popes condemning another "infallible" pope as a heretic. In 1870, the First Vatican Council abolished "infallible" papal decrees and the decrees of two "infallible" councils. (Note 23)


On May 13, 1981, a man shot Pope John Paul II. As the ambulance carried him to the hospital, the Pope kept praying, "Mary, my mother! Mary, my mother!" One year later, the Pope made a pilgrimage to Fatima to thank Our Lady of Fatima for saving his life and to consecrate the entire human race to her. (Note 27) The video "Catholicism: Crisis of Faith" shows the Pope kissing the feet of a statue of Mary. ( Note 28 )

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/index.html

So while there is alot of questionable material in Mormonism, there is also quite a bit in Catholicism. I'd rather follow the prophet than worship Mary, if I had to choose. sweatdrop
<center>More of Brigham Young, w00t! I like his sermons.

My next sermon will be to both Saint and sinner. One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well beloved Son of God; upon which subject the Elders of Israel have conflicting views. Our God and Father in heaven, is a being of tabernacle, or in other words, He has a body, with parts the same as you and I have; and is capable of showing forth His works to organized beings, as, for instance, in the world in which we live, it is the result of the knowledge and infinite wisdom that dwell in His organized body. His son, Jesus Christ has become a personage of tabernacle, and has a body like his father. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Lord, and issues forth from Himself, and may properly be called God's minister to execute His will in immensity; being called to govern by His influence and power; but He is not a person of tabernacle as we are, and as our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are. The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote about his father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct, then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach that, to their disciples. I will tell you how it is. Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were or ever will be upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual and afterwards temporal.
Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came in to the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, about whom holy men have written and spoken--He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth , professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturealists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming "great is the mystery of godliness," and tell nothing.
It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, "it is an immaterial substance!" What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.
I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea--"if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, to be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties."
Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you to night; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are coversant with; but what do the people in Christendom with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing.

-Brigham Young, Millennial Star, Volume 15, Page 769, 1853.
<center>The Latter-Day Saints'
MILLENNIAL STAR.
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HE THAT HATH AN EAR, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES.-Rev.ii.7.
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No. 50.--Vol. XV. Saturday, December 10, 1853. Price One Penny.
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ADAM, THE FATHER AND GOD OF THE HUMAN FAMILY.

</center>The above sentiment appeared in Star No. 48, a little to the surprise of some of its readers; and while the sentiment may have appeared blasphemous to the ignorant, it has no doubt given rise to some serious reflections with the more candid and comprehensive mind. A few reasonable and Scriptural ideas upon this subject may be profitable at the present time.
Then Adam is really God! And why not? If there are Lords many and Gods many, as the Scriptures inform us, why should not our Father Adam be one of them? Did he not prove himself as worthy of that high appellation as any other being that ever lived upon the earth? Certainly he did, so far as history informs us, unless we can except the Son of God. We have no account in Scripture that Adam ever wilfully transgressed, when we consider him independent of the woman. The Apostle informs us distinctly that the woman was in the transgression, being deceived, but Adam was not deceived. Adam fell, but his fall became a matter of necessity after the woman had transgressed. Her punishment was banishment from the Garden, and Adam was necessitated to fall, and go with her, in order to obey the first great command given unto them -- to multiply and replenish the earth; or, in the language of the Prophet Lehi, "Adam fell that men might be." The fall of Adam, therefore, was virtually required at his hands, that he might keep the first great command, and that the purposes of God might not fail, while at the same time the justice of God might be made manifest in the punishment incurred by the transgression of the woman, for whom the man is ever held responsible in the government of God.
The Scriptures inform us that Christ was as a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. If, therefore, the plan of salvation was matured before the foundation of the world, and Jesus was ordained to come into the world, and die at the time appointed, in order to perfect that plan, we must of necessity conclude that the plan of the fall was also matured in the councils of eternity, and that it was as necessary for the exalting and perfecting of intelligences, as the redemption. Without it they could not have known good and evil here, and without knowing good and evil they could not become Gods, neither could their children. No wonder the woman was tempted when it was said unto her--"Ye shall be as gods, ,knowing good and evil." No wonder Father Adam fell, and accompanied the woman, sharing in all the miseries of the curse, that he might be the father of an innumerable race of beings who would be capable of becoming Gods.
With these considerations before us, we can begin to see how it is that we are under obligations to our father Adam, as to a God. He endured the sufferings and the curse that we might be; and we are, that we might become Gods. Through him the justice of God was made manifest. Jesus came into the world, endured, and suffered, to perfect our advantages for becoming Gods, and through him the mercy of God abounded.
Kiritsu:

The "God was once a Man" / "Adam-God Theory" = Highly Misinterpreted Jewish Kabbalah Theology.

The complex Divine image composed of the multiple vessels of Divine manifestation was also visualized by Kabbalah as having a unitary, anthropomorphic form. God was, by one Kabbalistic recension, Adam Kadmon: the first primordial or archetypal Man. Man shared with God both an intrinsic, uncreated divine spark and a complex, organic form. This strange equation of Adam as God was supported by a Kabbalistic cipher: the numerical value in Hebrew of the names Adam and Jehovah (the Tetragrammaton, Yod he vav he) was both 45. Thus in Kabbalistic exegesis Jehovah equaled Adam: Adam was God. With this affirmation went the assertion that all humankind in highest realization was like God: the two realities shadowed each other.

In Kabbalah the theme is, however, prominent: Adam Kadmon is indeed "God," and His form is in the image of a Man--as noted earlier. Given the evidence that Joseph did know some elements of Kabbalah and had access both to the Zohar and to a Jew familiar with a wide range of Kabbalistic materials, it seems probable that Brigham heard this concept in some form from Joseph. The Adam-God doctrine may have been a misreading (or simplistic restatement) by Brigham Young of a Kabbalistic and Hermetic concept relayed to him by the prophet.
Takai_desu_yo
Yes, but the Bullshit Alarm still went off for a Reason. How many Native Americans knew how to Forge Steel Weapons? And, I don't know the accuracy, but it was IRON weapons that were forged 1000 B.C. Steel came around MUCH later on. It wasn't completely Purified until 1400 A.D.


I concurr, I was mainly referring to incorrect info to support a position. If you don't know that BC dates run backward, it's probably not a good idea to use them in your arguments, that's all.

Sinner
Not necessarily.

"Magic" can refer to stage magic and 'real' magic, where "magick" was invented to only refer to 'real' magic.

The word 'magick' is most often used by fluffbunnies and the like, so it has gotten a bad reputation. It's unnecessary anyways, since it is easy to tell the difference in any given situation between 'real' and stage magic.


fluffbunnies, I love that word. In any case, not everyone is capable of differentiating between them in context. I'm not saying the fault lies anywhere but on the shoulders of that individual, but it does expediate the conversation if we don't have to stop and define every other concept.

Kiritsu: Do you have a link to that info, or did I just miss it?
Miss Cherie

The arguments were getting tiresome. Besides, get with the times... the name's Miss Cherie. My missionary "friend" got transferred away twice because of his conduct.
Sorry about the Name, I didn't notice you until after the post, and it doesn't show any of the Posts when you edit. But he got Transfered for conduct? I would think you screw up on Gods time, you get your a** sent Packing home. The Church is a bit too lenient on their Missionarys, they believe that if you go on their little vacation for two years you're a saint. blah.
Takai_desu_yo
Woodlock
TheNinjaGod
However in the beginning it talks about how Nephi, the good son, stole a steel sword in roughly 591 b.c.. Which is fine and all except the iron age started in 1000 b.c., and at that time steel was rare and could only be processed in incredibly small amounts.


You do realize that B.C. dates go backward, so 1000 B.C. is before 591, by 409 years. That's long enough for it to become more commonplace.

1000 B.C. ----> 591 B.C. ----> 0 A.D. ----> 591 A.D. ----> 2004 A.D.
Yes, but the Bullshit Alarm still went off for a Reason. How many Native Americans knew how to Forge Steel Weapons? And, I don't know the accuracy, but it was IRON weapons that were forged 1000 B.C. Steel came around MUCH later on. It wasn't completely Purified until 1400 A.D.

Ms. Cherrie: Where ya been? How's your Missionary friend doing?
and either way it was gilded with gold (as in inlaid inscribed prettied up) to now i know they didn't have that technology
TheNinjaGod
Takai_desu_yo
Woodlock
TheNinjaGod
However in the beginning it talks about how Nephi, the good son, stole a steel sword in roughly 591 b.c.. Which is fine and all except the iron age started in 1000 b.c., and at that time steel was rare and could only be processed in incredibly small amounts.


You do realize that B.C. dates go backward, so 1000 B.C. is before 591, by 409 years. That's long enough for it to become more commonplace.

1000 B.C. ----> 591 B.C. ----> 0 A.D. ----> 591 A.D. ----> 2004 A.D.
Yes, but the Bullshit Alarm still went off for a Reason. How many Native Americans knew how to Forge Steel Weapons? And, I don't know the accuracy, but it was IRON weapons that were forged 1000 B.C. Steel came around MUCH later on. It wasn't completely Purified until 1400 A.D.

Ms. Cherrie: Where ya been? How's your Missionary friend doing?
and either way it was golded with gold to now i know they didn't have that technology


How many times do I have to say it? Learn to speak English! God dammit!

They did have the technology to smelt gold, you ignorant b***h. They have been smelting gold for ages. Supposedly the BoM took place much after Moses, yet the people in Moses' time knew how to smelt gold. . . . So why wouldn't a (made-up) civilization thousands of years later, have the ability to smelt gold.

Please for the sake of all that is right and just and holy in this world, present an argument that has some mild basis in fact. 'Til then, shut the ******** up.

Kiritsu
Some random bullshit


Stop this, please. Every time you post something like this. . . . I get an ache in my jaw. I think it is from clenching my jaw so hard. . . . But, I am certain that if you would kindly stop posting lies, deceit, and bullshit, my jaw would stop aching.
Darkslider
Kiritsu
Some random bullshit


Stop this, please. Every time you post something like this. . . . I get an ache in my jaw. I think it is from clenching my jaw so hard. . . . But, I am certain that if you would kindly stop posting lies, deceit, and bullshit, my jaw would stop aching.
Which post are you talking about? The two Brigham Young ones, or the Catholic one?

I'm going to assume for the Moment that you are speaking of the Catholic post, since I don't see reason for you to be offended by the Anti-Mormon posts. Perhaps you now realize how many of the Mormons feel, coming here, and seeing their Religion Bashed? IT IS THE SAME THING! The moment that you see something that goes against your very own religion, you automatically conclude that they are lies. It's the easiest thing to do, as you can see that the Mormons have been doing that for the past hundred pages. You post something against their Beliefs, it's automatically a lie.

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