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Gaia Forums » GAIA Online » Extended Discussion » Morality and Religion
[ Poll ] Evolution: Fact Or Fiction

Whats your religion?

Atheist 0.36982369823698 37.0% [ 902 ]
Protestant 0.17261172611726 17.3% [ 421 ]
Catholic 0.1459614596146 14.6% [ 356 ]
Hindu 0.012710127101271 1.3% [ 31 ]
Muslim 0.019680196801968 2.0% [ 48 ]
Jew 0.025010250102501 2.5% [ 61 ]
Buddhist 0.054530545305453 5.5% [ 133 ]
Greek Orthodox 0.007380073800738 0.7% [ 18 ]
Pagan 0.1480114801148 14.8% [ 361 ]
Egyptian 0.044280442804428 4.4% [ 108 ]
Total Votes: 2439
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Post: 12326372_5356 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:06 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:06 am
"Neurotheist"
:EDIT: Ooooh, now that I think of it, it doesn't matter how it happened in the past, because once again, I didn't perceive it, and for ME, the idea of evolution came first.


So, why do you believe in atoms? Or do you? Since you cannot perceive them.
 
     
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Post: 12326372_5357 created on Tue May 13, 2008 12:13 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:13 am
 
"Koravin"
"Neurotheist"

But again, it's a theory, a theory I've never perceived for myself, ergo, I do not incorporate it into my reality, yet...

And they still have yet to create life from nonlife, so there's no basis for evolution as the genesis of mankind, yet.

And once again, all of this doesn't mean that there is no god, just that the bible is obviously NOT how it happened.
I have never perceived China myself, but I am confident that it exists. Even if I don't experience something directly, if I have sufficient evidence for something, I will believe it.

Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, it is just the process by which new species come into being.

No, evolution is not proof there is no god, it is only proof that the Genesis story is false.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but you seem to think evolution is okay for 'lower creatures' (a term I despise, for it is inaccurate) but not for humans. Perhaps your desire for humanity to be 'special' is clouding your judgment?

I don't believe China exists, at least, not with 100%, for I have never perceived it. But I know the idea of China exists within my mind. Perceptual perception is not the same thing as perception. In fact, because of the inherent trickiness of perception I'm NEVER 100% sure about ANYTHING, because when your beliefs contradict your perception you put yourself in a very delicate situation, one that I try to avoid, I think. It's all about the sureity of it all.

Ya, we're arguing the same point about evolution at this point, that it does not show in any way where life originated, AND whether or not life originated via a primordial pool or not does not in any way show the existence or nonexistence of god, and since we agree, why are we still talking about it?

No, I don't think evolution is okay at all, it seems sound in theory, but my sureity of it all isn't quite enough for me to wholly claim it as true within my reality, for while I have heard many many things supporting it, I have also heard many many things denying it (E.G. polonium particles) so my sureity isn't to the point where I'll fully accept the theory, but I will recognize it as the best theory in rotation.

I don't desire for humanity to be special, I'm not even 100% sure humanity exists, for all I know I might not even be a human tripping on some serious mushrooms. All I know is what I perceive, and that all perceptions and particularly perceptual perceptions are inherently tricky, so what I believe is pretty irrelevant. All I have is my brain and my perception of reality, nothing special about that.
     
Yeah, I use big words, long sentences, and complex ideas, big whoop wanna fight about it?

I'm an atheist that believes in god. Don't believe me? Just ask me how.
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Post: 12326372_5358 created on Tue May 13, 2008 1:23 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:23 am
Egyptian is a religion?
 
     
_Bubble_Tea_Fairy_
Get Your License
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Post: 12326372_5359 created on Tue May 13, 2008 1:36 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:36 am
 
"_Bubble_Tea_Fairy_"
Egyptian is a religion?


The religion itself is called Kemetism if I recall correctly, but I think the person assumed that we'd know what 'Egyptian' meant.
     
Harvested Sorrow
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Post: 12326372_5360 created on Tue May 13, 2008 2:00 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:00 am
"Neurotheist"
No, I don't think evolution is okay at all, it seems sound in theory, but my sureity of it all isn't quite enough for me to wholly claim it as true within my reality, for while I have heard many many things supporting it, I have also heard many many things denying it (E.G. polonium particles) so my sureity isn't to the point where I'll fully accept the theory, but I will recognize it as the best theory in rotation.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/still_just_a_lizard.php

Here is an interesting experiment which heavily supports evolution. In fact, it's the definition of evolution. In the scientific field, there is no question that Evolution happens, only the mechanism. Could you please explain some of these arguments supposedly refuting Evolution? For instance, what are polonium particles, and how do they disprove Evolution?
 
     
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Post: 12326372_5361 created on Tue May 13, 2008 3:40 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:40 am
 
"Neurotheist"
"Koravin"
"Neurotheist"

But again, it's a theory, a theory I've never perceived for myself, ergo, I do not incorporate it into my reality, yet...

And they still have yet to create life from nonlife, so there's no basis for evolution as the genesis of mankind, yet.

And once again, all of this doesn't mean that there is no god, just that the bible is obviously NOT how it happened.
I have never perceived China myself, but I am confident that it exists. Even if I don't experience something directly, if I have sufficient evidence for something, I will believe it.

Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, it is just the process by which new species come into being.

No, evolution is not proof there is no god, it is only proof that the Genesis story is false.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but you seem to think evolution is okay for 'lower creatures' (a term I despise, for it is inaccurate) but not for humans. Perhaps your desire for humanity to be 'special' is clouding your judgment?

I don't believe China exists, at least, not with 100%, for I have never perceived it. But I know the idea of China exists within my mind. Perceptual perception is not the same thing as perception. In fact, because of the inherent trickiness of perception I'm NEVER 100% sure about ANYTHING, because when your beliefs contradict your perception you put yourself in a very delicate situation, one that I try to avoid, I think. It's all about the sureity of it all.

Ya, we're arguing the same point about evolution at this point, that it does not show in any way where life originated, AND whether or not life originated via a primordial pool or not does not in any way show the existence or nonexistence of god, and since we agree, why are we still talking about it?

No, I don't think evolution is okay at all, it seems sound in theory, but my sureity of it all isn't quite enough for me to wholly claim it as true within my reality, for while I have heard many many things supporting it, I have also heard many many things denying it (E.G. polonium particles) so my sureity isn't to the point where I'll fully accept the theory, but I will recognize it as the best theory in rotation.

I don't desire for humanity to be special, I'm not even 100% sure humanity exists, for all I know I might not even be a human tripping on some serious mushrooms. All I know is what I perceive, and that all perceptions and particularly perceptual perceptions are inherently tricky, so what I believe is pretty irrelevant. All I have is my brain and my perception of reality, nothing special about that.


Solipsist, huh?

Here's an idea: Go jump off a cliff. After all, if that cliff isn't really there, you have nothing to fear!
     
92% of statistics are made up on the spot.
If you are one of the 8% of people whose statistics are real, put this in your signature.
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Post: 12326372_5362 created on Tue May 13, 2008 3:58 amPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:58 am
     
 
Quote:

Such as the dimensions of the Ark. Scientists proved that this boat was almost impossible to capsize, due to its size and shape. They didn't have the technology back then to actually work this out!


Ah, such youthful ignorance.
The Ark was too weak and too small to be able to hold onto the amount of mass being loaded onto it. The wood would have expanded, causing the the boat to gain major ruptures/leaks.
It goes on.
 
     

I DON'T OWN THE GUITAR STOP ASKING ME
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Post: 12326372_5363 created on Tue May 13, 2008 5:01 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:01 pm
 
"sol-inviticus"
For all the Creationists out there,

Where the hell did all the water from the "Great Flood" go?


It leaked out of the holes in their theory

Zing!
     
"DAMN YOU SAMUS!"

Mine, do not steal
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Post: 12326372_5364 created on Tue May 13, 2008 5:04 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:04 pm
"Aeirus"
"Redem"
"Aeirus"

We could go on and on about who is right and who is wrong, but what it all comes down to is who believes in what. You and I have polar opposites views on the matter and it would be pointless to try to outwit the other. Now, being a Bible-believing Christian, I will honestly say that I believe every word that is in the Bible because each word comes from the mouth of God. Since I believe that God is the creator who made this universe, then I will follow everything He tells me to do. Since He is my creator, He knows more about me than I do, so I will not hesitate to follow His every command. I read the Bible "literally" because I don't see a reason why God would alter his words in order for us to try to unravel them and make a general interpretation out of them. It's quite simple really: He made this book so that people like us could be saved. He does not want to confuse us.

Because the bible was not written for us, it was written by and for bronze age Israelite tribesmen. It had to convey spiritual meaning in a way they could understand.
The oldest parts are what remains of their oral traditions, their myths and "histories".

How could they have understood a concept like atoms? Or that each of the points of light in the sky was a giant ball of hydrogen and heavier elements undergoing nuclear fusion? Or that animals evolve via the processes of mutation and natural selection? (and that's the ultra simple version)

They couldn't obviously.

The idea that genesis is a literal history, rather than spiritual message is patently absurd. A literal tree of knowledge, a literal fruit that brings about knowledge of good and evil. A literal talking snake. A literal pair of first humans. None of that really makes sense as simple history.


Actually, the Bible was made for us. God did not make it for only a select few people to read. Jesus said:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” -Mat 28:19-20

For what you said I suppose you're saying that the "Evolutionist" take on how the universe came to be is far more logical than that of a creationist? That once there was nothing and then "BANG!" there was something? I fail to see how everything in the world could possibly come to be in this way. How did the scientists come to this conclusion? Where they there? Obviously not.

Isn't it safer to say that perhaps there was a creator and perhaps He knows what has happened and what will happen to the world because He created it? Much of what was written in the Bible has already come to pass and some are yet to come.

Since I've already spoken to someone about this let me just copy what I previously wrote.

Think of it this way: Say you had this watch but you didn't know who made it. Would it be logical to say that there was no creator because you have never seen them before? Of course not. So why can't some people not grasp the fact that perhaps the world was made by a creator without actually seeing them?


You are the one who believes that everything came from nothing, not big bang theorists.

In order for all the matter in the universe to have been spread out by the big bang, it had to be there before the big bang.

Research something before saying it is illogical
 
     
"DAMN YOU SAMUS!"

Mine, do not steal
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Post: 12326372_5365 created on Tue May 13, 2008 5:12 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:12 pm
 
"Aeirus"
Obviously none of you accept my belief that there was a creator so I don't see any point in arguing on this topic any longer. I merely presented my views that evolution was fiction and I got countless of posts stating otherwise.
Because fiction is made up stories, Evolution is a scientific fact and theory (Fact=Micro Theory=Macro)

This was expected of course, and I used this as an opportunity to spread the gospel to you in hopes that one of you might accept Jesus into your life and experience all the blessings that He is capable of. I believe that God works in mysterious ways and I will not give up on any of you. I want you all the experience this joy unspeakable love that God gives to His children.
God doesn't love me though because he doesn't let people into heaven who wear glasses

If there is only one thing I want you take from our conversation, it's that Jesus Christ died for us, so that we may accept him into our lives and have eternal life with Him when we get to heaven. Without Jesus, we would all go straight to Hell, but through God's abundant love for us, He sent His Son to bear the sins of the world in our place so that we may not endure the eternal sufferings of Hell.
Of course a true loving god would not punish us with eternal sufferings no matter what we do

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6.
One of the many bible contradictions

"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"- Romans 10:9-11

Now, I believe we are living in the last days, and the coming of the Lord is quickly approaching.
It was due back in 2007

Accepting and believing in Jesus is the only way to be saved. I am merely a "fisher-of-men" if you may. I am trying to get as many people to Christ before their time on earth is over or before the Rapture happens. If you still think I'm some delusional p***k whose faith is blocking her from seeing reality, it's understandable and I won't hold you to it. I will continue loving all of you even if you continue to think lowly of me or what I have to say.

Jesus said: "“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you...Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also" - John 15:18-20

I know, as well as you, that most Christians get "flamed" or shot down once they start proclaiming the word of God. I know it's hard for most of you to accept these Biblical concepts without hard, physical evidence of their existance. But the Bible says "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” -John 20:29

Thank you for the insightful discussion. I pray you will all sleep tight and be safe!
God Bless! biggrin


Actions speak louder than words, while you pray, others act and actually get things done.
     
"DAMN YOU SAMUS!"

Mine, do not steal
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Post: 12326372_5366 created on Tue May 13, 2008 6:04 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:04 pm
For me, evolution is a lot to swallow. I just don't understand the logic of it all. It is much easier to accept the logic that there was a Creator. Plus I feel much safer knowing that we aren't all just a cosmic accident.


  
     
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Post: 12326372_5367 created on Tue May 13, 2008 6:24 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:24 pm
 
"Colonel Officer G"
For me, evolution is a lot to swallow. I just don't understand the logic of it all. It is much easier to accept the logic that there was a Creator. Plus I feel much safer knowing that we aren't all just a cosmic accident.




Which is why most people go with religion, regardless of it being right or wrong.

The big bang, abiogenesis and evolution are separate things and not connected, plus to say we were a cosmic accident would imply that there was a sentient cause.

I would rather believe what is most probable than reality contradicting stories, even if the most probable is the hardest to understand
     
"DAMN YOU SAMUS!"

Mine, do not steal
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Post: 12326372_5368 created on Tue May 13, 2008 6:38 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:38 pm
"Colonel Officer G"
For me, evolution is a lot to swallow. I just don't understand the logic of it all. It is much easier to accept the logic that there was a Creator. Plus I feel much safer knowing that we aren't all just a cosmic accident.


You are confusing evolution with atheism. Nothing about the theory of evolution states anything about the cosmological origins of the universe, or the origin of life. It also makes no theological assertions.

No surprise of course, creationists have been attempting to convince people that they must give up their faith to believe in evolution for years now.

Whether there was a creator or not is irrelevant, evolution is based of the study of reality, and that study reveals how evolution works and the history of life.
 
     
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Post: 12326372_5369 created on Tue May 13, 2008 7:01 pmPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:01 pm
 
"Colonel Officer G"
For me, evolution is a lot to swallow. I just don't understand the logic of it all. It is much easier to accept the logic that there was a Creator. Plus I feel much safer knowing that we aren't all just a cosmic accident.


As Redem noted, evolution does not attempt to explain where life came from, nor the origin of the universe; only how life has changed over time. It's well established as fact.

Beyond that, however, it seems important to note that the Pope had no issues with the theory, and he certainly didn't drop his belief in God to come to that conclusion!
     
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Post: 12326372_5370 created on Wed May 14, 2008 5:22 amPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:22 am
"Aleitheo the III"
"sol-inviticus"
For all the Creationists out there,

Where the hell did all the water from the "Great Flood" go?


It leaked out of the holes in their theory

Zing!

I'd like to take this moment and give you a pat on the back. Great answer.
 
     
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