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Gaia Forums » GAIA Online » Extended Discussion » Morality and Religion
[ Poll ] Evolution: Fact Or Fiction

Whats your religion?

Atheist 0.37149817295981 37.1% [ 915 ]
Protestant 0.17255379618352 17.3% [ 425 ]
Catholic 0.14535119772635 14.5% [ 358 ]
Hindu 0.012992285830288 1.3% [ 32 ]
Muslim 0.019488428745432 1.9% [ 48 ]
Jew 0.024766544863987 2.5% [ 61 ]
Buddhist 0.053999187982136 5.4% [ 133 ]
Greek Orthodox 0.0077141697117337 0.8% [ 19 ]
Pagan 0.14738124238733 14.7% [ 363 ]
Egyptian 0.044254973609419 4.4% [ 109 ]
Total Votes: 2463
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Post: 12326372_5341 created on Mon May 12, 2008 7:32 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:32 pm
There's no "other" option for your poll, and that makes me sad.

As for evolution, I have never seen a species evolve, though the theory does make sense.

As for creationism, I have never seen god make the world, and this seems more complex to me.

Occam's Razor cuts creationism to ribbons.

This does not mean however that there is no god, but whether or not there is a god is pretty irrelevant to me.
 
     
Yeah, I use big words, long sentences, and complex ideas, big whoop wanna fight about it?

I'm an atheist that believes in god. Don't believe me? Just ask me how.
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Post: 12326372_5342 created on Mon May 12, 2008 8:25 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:25 pm
 
"Neurotheist"

As for evolution, I have never seen a species evolve, though the theory does make sense.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/still_just_a_lizard.php
I found this one very interesting.

There are dozens of examples of higher organisms speciating, as well as inumerable examples in bacteria.
     
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Post: 12326372_5343 created on Mon May 12, 2008 8:44 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:44 pm
"Neurotheist"
As for evolution, I have never seen a species evolve, though the theory does make sense.


Drug resistant bacteria.

Unless the god that created the world is on the side of the Bubonic plague >_>
 
     
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Post: 12326372_5344 created on Mon May 12, 2008 9:02 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:02 pm
 
"Aeirus"
Obviously none of you accept my belief that there was a creator so I don't see any point in arguing on this topic any longer. I merely presented my views that evolution was fiction and I got countless of posts stating otherwise. This was expected of course, and I used this as an opportunity to spread the gospel to you in hopes that one of you might accept Jesus into your life and experience all the blessings that He is capable of. I believe that God works in mysterious ways and I will not give up on any of you. I want you all the experience this joy unspeakable love that God gives to His children.

If there is only one thing I want you take from our conversation, it's that Jesus Christ died for us, so that we may accept him into our lives and have eternal life with Him when we get to heaven. Without Jesus, we would all go straight to Hell, but through God's abundant love for us, He sent His Son to bear the sins of the world in our place so that we may not endure the eternal sufferings of Hell.

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6.

"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"- Romans 10:9-11

Now, I believe we are living in the last days, and the coming of the Lord is quickly approaching. Accepting and believing in Jesus is the only way to be saved. I am merely a "fisher-of-men" if you may. I am trying to get as many people to Christ before their time on earth is over or before the Rapture happens. If you still think I'm some delusional p***k whose faith is blocking her from seeing reality, it's understandable and I won't hold you to it. I will continue loving all of you even if you continue to think lowly of me or what I have to say.

Jesus said: "“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you...Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also" - John 15:18-20

I know, as well as you, that most Christians get "flamed" or shot down once they start proclaiming the word of God. I know it's hard for most of you to accept these Biblical concepts without hard, physical evidence of their existance. But the Bible says "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” -John 20:29

Thank you for the insightful discussion. I pray you will all sleep tight and be safe!
God Bless! biggrin


And obviously you didn't really read anything i posted before. I claim that a creator is quite possible, and in fact believe there was something before earth of inteligence.

However in reading this last post i see your true purpose is not to discuss, but to preach and as such my patence is reaching it's limit when it comes to tactfully speaking. But i'll try to cut this into bite size peices once again and see if i can steer this back towards a discussion, not a christian recruitment drive where you set yourself up to be flamed so you can appear to be the victim.

A. Christianity is not the only religion out there. It is not the only religion out there with beleif in one god. Stop acting like being anything but a christian means your an athiest.

B. Even if jesus died for my sins, doesn't mean it really did anything to sway god's opinion, let alone was even noticed or a superior being for that matter. for all we KNOW, he could have just been a humanitarian who got a bad end and decided to try to use even that to teach a lesson to mankind. or he could have not existed at all, which is more likely as the singular reference from the time period he was suposidly alive was a vague reference to "The Christ", not even giving a full name let alone a description.

C. As for the joy of faith you speak of, i will spare myself that until i see some effect it does beyond what my spiritualality already gives me.

D. If it was not for Christ we would go to hell you say? well then I'll be headed there to join all the people who lived before Christ, all the people who never heard of him, all the people who followed different faiths and all the people who were still found lacking. Sounds like a large crowd but at least i'll have anscestors there.

E. As for the apocolypse, I have no worries here. I am sure the events that fortell the event would be enough to quiet my critisism. After all I am merely asking for proof and lacking that, at least solid reason, and what fool wouldn't see it if all of a sudden a large chunk of the people just up and were called to heaven? but then again people have been beating that end of days drum for a few centuries now, so what else is new?

F. As for your final remark about being flamed and praying for me and whatnot, pray away. Pray til your little heart burst. mean while i will be out looking for the answers to the world problems rather then waiting for them to fall into my lap. And hey, i already seem to have a fairly good idea how to end one of the worlds greatest evils, all i got to do is hammer out the details and find a way to implement it.
     
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Post: 12326372_5345 created on Mon May 12, 2008 9:40 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:40 pm
"Ashley the Bee"
"Neurotheist"
As for evolution, I have never seen a species evolve, though the theory does make sense.


Drug resistant bacteria.

Unless the god that created the world is on the side of the Bubonic plague >_>

"Redem"
"Neurotheist"

As for evolution, I have never seen a species evolve, though the theory does make sense.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/still_just_a_lizard.php
I found this one very interesting.

There are dozens of examples of higher organisms speciating, as well as inumerable examples in bacteria.


But you guys are missing one important word in my post.
"Neurotheist"

As for evolution, I have never seen a species evolve, though the theory does make sense.


As far as I am concerned this is circumstantial evidence, it also falls under the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent.

P->Q
Q
ergo, P

So my own personal perception and perceptual perception thereof does not lead me to believe that evolution as a theory is the objective truth. But I DID say that as a theory it makes more sense than creationism because of the logically correct Occam's Razor.
 
     
Yeah, I use big words, long sentences, and complex ideas, big whoop wanna fight about it?

I'm an atheist that believes in god. Don't believe me? Just ask me how.
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Post: 12326372_5346 created on Mon May 12, 2008 9:43 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:43 pm
 
Except the observation of evolution came before the Theory of Evolution. Darwin noticed the whole finch thing, we've seen evolution in countless other species, and even controlled evolution through breeding dogs and horses and whatnot. These observations led to our understanding of evolution, so it is not affirming the consequent.
     
Yeah, I'm an Aspie.
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Post: 12326372_5347 created on Mon May 12, 2008 9:44 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:44 pm
"Aeirus"
Obviously none of you accept my belief that there was a creator so I don't see any point in arguing on this topic any longer. I merely presented my views that evolution was fiction and I got countless of posts stating otherwise. This was expected of course, and I used this as an opportunity to spread the gospel to you in hopes that one of you might accept Jesus into your life and experience all the blessings that He is capable of. I believe that God works in mysterious ways and I will not give up on any of you. I want you all the experience this joy unspeakable love that God gives to His children.

If there is only one thing I want you take from our conversation, it's that Jesus Christ died for us, so that we may accept him into our lives and have eternal life with Him when we get to heaven. Without Jesus, we would all go straight to Hell, but through God's abundant love for us, He sent His Son to bear the sins of the world in our place so that we may not endure the eternal sufferings of Hell.

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6.

"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"- Romans 10:9-11

Now, I believe we are living in the last days, and the coming of the Lord is quickly approaching. Accepting and believing in Jesus is the only way to be saved. I am merely a "fisher-of-men" if you may. I am trying to get as many people to Christ before their time on earth is over or before the Rapture happens. If you still think I'm some delusional p***k whose faith is blocking her from seeing reality, it's understandable and I won't hold you to it. I will continue loving all of you even if you continue to think lowly of me or what I have to say.

Jesus said: "“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you...Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also" - John 15:18-20

I know, as well as you, that most Christians get "flamed" or shot down once they start proclaiming the word of God. I know it's hard for most of you to accept these Biblical concepts without hard, physical evidence of their existance. But the Bible says "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” -John 20:29

Thank you for the insightful discussion. I pray you will all sleep tight and be safe!
God Bless! biggrin

The only reason that this works is because circular reasoning works. And, circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works...

Saying that you're right because you're right, does not make you right. To say that the bible is the word of god because it says it's the word of god is the most short sighted thing you can say.
 
     
Yeah, I use big words, long sentences, and complex ideas, big whoop wanna fight about it?

I'm an atheist that believes in god. Don't believe me? Just ask me how.
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Post: 12326372_5348 created on Mon May 12, 2008 9:46 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:46 pm
 
"Koravin"
Except the observation of evolution came before the Theory of Evolution. Darwin noticed the whole finch thing, we've seen evolution in countless other species, and even controlled evolution through breeding dogs and horses and whatnot. These observations led to our understanding of evolution, so it is not affirming the consequent.

That's EXACTLY what affirming the consequent is. Taking observations and making an explanation for them. Or already having an explanation and putting more observations that support it to it. This doesn't mean that your explanation is correct, just that it has support.

And yes, that support does help, but it does not affirm the theory.
     
Yeah, I use big words, long sentences, and complex ideas, big whoop wanna fight about it?

I'm an atheist that believes in god. Don't believe me? Just ask me how.
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Post: 12326372_5349 created on Mon May 12, 2008 9:56 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:56 pm
"Neurotheist"
"Koravin"
Except the observation of evolution came before the Theory of Evolution. Darwin noticed the whole finch thing, we've seen evolution in countless other species, and even controlled evolution through breeding dogs and horses and whatnot. These observations led to our understanding of evolution, so it is not affirming the consequent.

That's EXACTLY what affirming the consequent is. Taking observations and making an explanation for them. Or already having an explanation and putting more observations that support it to it. This doesn't mean that your explanation is correct, just that it has support.

And yes, that support does help, but it does not affirm the theory.
No, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. From what I understood of what you were saying,

If evolution is true -> microbes would gain resistances.
Microbes gain resistances.
Therefore evolution is true.

That is not how it came to be. These observations led us to the theory, not the other way 'round.

Also, I agree with you to a point. You can never absolutely prove something, you can only disprove things. However, we have mountains of evidence for evolution. The only thing that's really debatable now are the specifics. How much of evolution is governed by punctuated equilibrium and how much by gradualism? How strong an impact does kin selection have? Stuff like that. If evidence surfaced that pwnt evolution into the ground, completely disproving it, then we'd have to majorly revise. That, however, seems extremely unlikely.

How old are you? If you're in college, I suggest taking an evolution course, just to understand the intricacies further. It's a fascinating subject. Evolution is a more solid theory than gravity.
 
     
Yeah, I'm an Aspie.
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Post: 12326372_5350 created on Mon May 12, 2008 10:03 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:03 pm
 
"Koravin"
"Neurotheist"
"Koravin"
Except the observation of evolution came before the Theory of Evolution. Darwin noticed the whole finch thing, we've seen evolution in countless other species, and even controlled evolution through breeding dogs and horses and whatnot. These observations led to our understanding of evolution, so it is not affirming the consequent.

That's EXACTLY what affirming the consequent is. Taking observations and making an explanation for them. Or already having an explanation and putting more observations that support it to it. This doesn't mean that your explanation is correct, just that it has support.

And yes, that support does help, but it does not affirm the theory.
No, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. From what I understood of what you were saying,

If evolution is true -> microbes would gain resistances.
Microbes gain resistances.
Therefore evolution is true.

That is not how it came to be. These observations led us to the theory, not the other way 'round.

Also, I agree with you to a point. You can never absolutely prove something, you can only disprove things. However, we have mountains of evidence for evolution. The only thing that's really debatable now are the specifics. How much of evolution is governed by punctuated equilibrium and how much by gradualism? How strong an impact does kin selection have? Stuff like that. If evidence surfaced that pwnt evolution into the ground, completely disproving it, then we'd have to majorly revise. That, however, seems extremely unlikely.

How old are you? If you're in college, I suggest taking an evolution course, just to understand the intricacies further. It's a fascinating subject. Evolution is a more solid theory than gravity.

But again, it's a theory, a theory I've never perceived for myself, ergo, I do not incorporate it into my reality, yet...

And they still have yet to create life from nonlife, so there's no basis for evolution as the genesis of mankind, yet.

And once again, all of this doesn't mean that there is no god, just that the bible is obviously NOT how it happened.

:EDIT: Ooooh, now that I think of it, it doesn't matter how it happened in the past, because once again, I didn't perceive it, and for ME, the idea of evolution came first.
     
Yeah, I use big words, long sentences, and complex ideas, big whoop wanna fight about it?

I'm an atheist that believes in god. Don't believe me? Just ask me how.
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Post: 12326372_5351 created on Mon May 12, 2008 10:08 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:08 pm
"Neurotheist"

But again, it's a theory, a theory I've never perceived for myself, ergo, I do not incorporate it into my reality, yet...

And they still have yet to create life from nonlife, so there's no basis for evolution as the genesis of mankind, yet.

And once again, all of this doesn't mean that there is no god, just that the bible is obviously NOT how it happened.
I have never perceived China myself, but I am confident that it exists. Even if I don't experience something directly, if I have sufficient evidence for something, I will believe it.

Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, it is just the process by which new species come into being.

No, evolution is not proof there is no god, it is only proof that the Genesis story is false.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but you seem to think evolution is okay for 'lower creatures' (a term I despise, for it is inaccurate) but not for humans. Perhaps your desire for humanity to be 'special' is clouding your judgment?
 
     
Yeah, I'm an Aspie.
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Post: 12326372_5352 created on Mon May 12, 2008 10:08 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:08 pm
 
"Neurotheist"

:EDIT: Ooooh, now that I think of it, it doesn't matter how it happened in the past, because once again, I didn't perceive it, and for ME, the idea of evolution came first.
I don't understand what you mean.
     
Yeah, I'm an Aspie.
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Post: 12326372_5353 created on Mon May 12, 2008 10:21 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:21 pm
"Koravin"
"Neurotheist"

But again, it's a theory, a theory I've never perceived for myself, ergo, I do not incorporate it into my reality, yet...

And they still have yet to create life from nonlife, so there's no basis for evolution as the genesis of mankind, yet.

And once again, all of this doesn't mean that there is no god, just that the bible is obviously NOT how it happened.
I have never perceived China myself, but I am confident that it exists. Even if I don't experience something directly, if I have sufficient evidence for something, I will believe it.

Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, it is just the process by which new species come into being.

No, evolution is not proof there is no god, it is only proof that the Genesis story is false.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but you seem to think evolution is okay for 'lower creatures' (a term I despise, for it is inaccurate) but not for humans. Perhaps your desire for humanity to be 'special' is clouding your judgment?


quoted for truth...lol

but you are very correct here. evolution does not have to relate to orgin of life, it just disproves genisis idea of how creatures were made.

and your also right that people's beleif that Man is a higher organism often interfers with thei judgement and leads to egocentrical beliefs, such as that humans don't or haven't evolved.

i say kudos to you.
 
     
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Post: 12326372_5354 created on Mon May 12, 2008 10:27 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:27 pm
 
I beleive that the bible is true. Jesus did exist. He was a very wise man. He was not God. He was a wise man. He made miracles. He was the greatest prophet and Christ will live on. Now the bible is a book. All of it cannot be true. Jesus did exist he did commit miracles he was wise. But the bible isn't completely acurate. They didn't know what science was when they wrote the Genesis. The Genesis is a story. Most everything else, true. Was Darwin a prophet? NO! Was Jesus a scientist? NO!
     


My dream avi!
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Post: 12326372_5355 created on Mon May 12, 2008 11:32 pmPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:32 pm
Heres an idea:

I believe the Principle of Evolution and Christianity are both correct.

1. Obvious Evolution is right because of the overwhelming evidence. They wouldn't be finding vestigal structures, such as hip bones in dolphins, once used to walk by one of their ancestrial organisms, if evolution never happened. There are loads of transitional species. For all those who oppose evolution, take a simple biology class.

2. For those of you who are non-believers, the way of Jesus Christ is correct too. But, you CANNOT interpret the bible word for word. For example, the world was obviously not created in 7 human days. Astronomy has shown that to be false. In terms of God, he (correction- or she) has existed for so long, that 7 days to him (or her), may be much longer to us. It is an interpretation of what God did. God never wrote the Bible. He worked through humans to write it. God caused the creation of matter and dark matter, along with antimatter. When the big bang happened, anti matter cancelled out most the matter in existence. Matter prevailed though, and within 10^-43s of a second, our universe started to resemble what it is today. The Universe is still expanding. Genesis said God created all things. TRUE. But, not in the exact interpretation given. The same can be said for evolution. When organisms were originally created, God designed them to evolve, to better themselves. We are an organisms. We evolve. If the human races lasts millions of more years, we will look dramatically different. God created evolution.


How about that idea?
 
     
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