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Whats your religion?

Atheist 0.37387563551036 37.4% [ 956 ]
Protestant 0.1744231521314 17.4% [ 446 ]
Catholic 0.1435275713727 14.4% [ 367 ]
Hindu 0.012905748924521 1.3% [ 33 ]
Muslim 0.01916308173641 1.9% [ 49 ]
Jew 0.02424716464607 2.4% [ 62 ]
Buddhist 0.054360578803285 5.4% [ 139 ]
Greek Orthodox 0.0078216660148612 0.8% [ 20 ]
Pagan 0.1462651544779 14.6% [ 374 ]
Egyptian 0.043410246382479 4.3% [ 111 ]
Total Votes: 2557
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forum:60, topic:12326372
"Eoinda"
Quote:
that was a waste of type for you. If any of you fools can prove to me that God is not real, I will give you all that I own, go kill and rape as many people as possible, and then kill myself. If God is not real, then all ten of the commandments are fake so doing what they say not to do is OK.

So you mean there is no meaning in not raping and killing (besides that god said so) interesting.
If god exist you will probably go to hell!

It's just the old canard used by fundementalist theists for ages, that morality only exists because of divine command, and that humans would constantly run amok if not for the fear of holy punishment. Shows a rather vile opinion of people, doesn't it? One I find more and more insulting as I grow older.
 
     
Since when is reality a popularity contest? ~ VoijaRisa

Nothing exists except atoms and empty space. Everything else is opinion.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8051/971177893323gc7.png
 
"Eoinda"
Quote:
that was a waste of type for you. If any of you fools can prove to me that God is not real, I will give you all that I own, go kill and rape as many people as possible, and then kill myself. If God is not real, then all ten of the commandments are fake so doing what they say not to do is OK.

So you mean there is no meaning in not raping and killing (besides that god said so) interesting.
If god exist you will probably go to hell!


So your only reason not to go out and kill anyone is because you'll go to hell if you do that?
     
well, first, no scientist says humans evoved directly from apes. they evolved through a series of missing links and nearly-identical species

plus, while that isn't proven, small steps of evolution have been proven, such as certain viruses becoming immune to medicines.
 
     
 
"Jeef_Sislo"
well, first, no scientist says humans evoved directly from apes.


Modern apes. Humans most certainly did evolve from (and are) apes.

Quote:
they evolved through a series of missing links and nearly-identical species


Transitional forms is a better term, but this is in essence correct.

Quote:
plus, while that isn't proven, small steps of evolution have been proven, such as certain viruses becoming immune to medicines.


It most certainly has been proven to the extent science allows.
     
Divine Legionnaire #24:Lieutenant

Property of PirateEire

Mobile Pixiefortress: Pocketnest

"Jaaten Delost-Syric"
"DeeFarnham"


Oh, and have you gotten his PM admonishing you for doubting the Lord? I did.


I missed out on that. I did however receive a PM stating that abiogenesis doesn't prove...abiogenesis, but that YHWH has apparently been replaced by some intriguing trickster deity who's in league with his own D.A. to temp us humans into believing what the evidence shows us.

http://meow.catsplz.com/cats/pictures/234/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

In any case: the only contest there should be, at this point, is between those people who think evidence is important (and therefore who conclude that the theory of evolution is correct) and those people who think doctrine is more important (and therefore who conclude that the theory of evolution is incorrect).

So, I ask any given one of you: which are you? Is evidence important, or is it not? If it is, and you don't believe that evolution is the correct explanation, why not? If evidence isn't important to you, why not? Why should biology not be subject to the same rules of logic as courtroom law?
 
     
 
The funny thing is that evolution and the Christian faith can coexist for one it says God made the earth in seven days, but whats the difference between a day on earth and a day on mars? What is a day, no let alone time to a being who sees past, present and future, a being that doesn't follow that rules of time, space or matter?. With that said lets say God created and is still creating everything, but does it at such a slow process in our eyes it seems like evolution when in fact its almost like a slow creationism. In a sense you could call it both.
     
Ignorance is bliss, but it sure is pathetic
"Izrador"
The funny thing is that evolution and the Christian faith can coexist for one it says God made the earth in seven days, but whats the difference between a day on earth and a day on mars? What is a day, no let alone time to a being who sees past, present and future, a being that doesn't follow that rules of time, space or matter?. With that said lets say God created and is still creating everything, but does it at such a slow process in our eyes it seems like evolution when in fact its almost like a slow creationism. In a sense you could call it both.

If God created us, he's not a good engineer. We are not well-built. I mean, we still have the breathing reflexes of fish, which are grossly inappropriate. And our inguinal canals (at least for men) are all-too-often too weak to hold up the weight of our intestines. Why? Because we're descended from animals that walked on all fours or swam in water, and weren't upright anyway. And that's to say nothing of the way that fluid in our airways oh-so-conveniently drains to the deepest parts of our lungs where it can fester and develop life-threatening infections or drown us.

It's also clear that everything in human life is driven by sex - shades of Freud, but I'm talking Darwin here.

You could say that the creator is just sort of playing with the world by creating a set of rules and then watching what that set of rules will produce, but that's not really compatible with most theologies.
 
     
 
     
 
 
 
 
"Izrador"
The funny thing is that evolution and the Christian faith can coexist for one it says God made the earth in seven days, but whats the difference between a day on earth and a day on mars? What is a day, no let alone time to a being who sees past, present and future, a being that doesn't follow that rules of time, space or matter?. With that said lets say God created and is still creating everything, but does it at such a slow process in our eyes it seems like evolution when in fact its almost like a slow creationism. In a sense you could call it both.

I think that Izrador has made quite the point here. There's even a scripture somewhere that says one day for us is a thousand years to God. How of course the prophet would know this is beyond me, I tend to doubt the word of God dictated by men; but evolution takes place even now. Compare the average global height now to 150 years ago and tell me what you find. Unless men back then actually didn't evolve, it was just a separate species entirely...

I'm being sarcastic, ppl.
 
 
 
     
 
"DeeFarnham"
"Eoinda"
Quote:
that was a waste of type for you. If any of you fools can prove to me that God is not real, I will give you all that I own, go kill and rape as many people as possible, and then kill myself. If God is not real, then all ten of the commandments are fake so doing what they say not to do is OK.

So you mean there is no meaning in not raping and killing (besides that god said so) interesting.
If god exist you will probably go to hell!

It's just the old canard used by fundementalist theists for ages, that morality only exists because of divine command, and that humans would constantly run amok if not for the fear of holy punishment. Shows a rather vile opinion of people, doesn't it? One I find more and more insulting as I grow older.


The question to me is, why shouldn't they run amok? Or really be smart about it and subtly take whatever they want and all that? I don't understand what would make them behave. After if they're right all morals and stuff are man made and so are the concepts of right and wrong, good and evil and why should they have any kind of regard for those? Not that I think that's a good excuse to force religion as the idea of forcing religion to make people behave is stupid.
 
     
Dream Avi
Totally accepting donations...

 
im iglesia ni cristo (church of crist so i dont vote) smile
     




(FREE L!CKS!!!) 3nodding
"Dark Lord Drake"
The question to me is, why shouldn't they run amok? Or really be smart about it and subtly take whatever they want and all that? I don't understand what would make them behave. After if they're right all morals and stuff are man made and so are the concepts of right and wrong, good and evil and why should they have any kind of regard for those? Not that I think that's a good excuse to force religion as the idea of forcing religion to make people behave is stupid.
One does not have to have a sense of "right and wrong" or "good and evil" to have a moral compass. One can extrapolate a rather functioning morality simply from the desire not to be harmed and an assumption that others also do not wish to be harmed. The simplest statement in that code is "If I were harmed, I would want to gain revenge. It is likely that someone I harm will want to gain revenge on me. If they gain revenge for harm, they will likely harm me. Therefore, I will endeavor not to harm others because of the risk of harm to myself." It can continue for as long as you'd like to think of scenarios.

This differs from the Golden Rule in that it does not necessarily endorse positive action, but instead focuses on non-negative action. Furthermore, it links directly to one's own temporal well-being (will I be harmed?) versus one's potential spiritual well-being (will a deity do something to me after I die for this?). Certainly there are abuses. Some people will take the attitude of "Might makes Right", and decide that it's perfectly OK to harm anyone they don't fear. Considering the things that man has done even with the threat of eternal damnation as a future punishment (or even in the name of the deity that should punish them for what they've done), this really isn't all that different from the potential abuses of a deity-centered morality. If a system of governance is put in place with a similar moral code (holy crap, laws!), then even the abuses can be curtailed to some degree. If the government is corrupt, then you're boned, unless there's some way of altering the governance. Perhaps a system could be set in place in which the people could choose their leaders, and make them fear harm (at least in the loss of their career as leaders) if they harm others. Whoah, holy crap, elections.

Sure, those can be abused too. Find me something that can't. Two-thirds of this planet is covered in a substance that, if you submerge someone in it, they will cease to be able to breathe and die. This entire planet is made of abusable things. Fear of abuse of a system is not the same as proof that the system is bad. If it were, we wouldn't have CD-Rs, blank cassette tapes, VCRs, xerography machines, cars, knives, sharp rocks, pointy twigs, or FIRE. That's right, we would not be allowed to have FIRE if the potential for abuse were to be considered proof that something is bad.

Why should morality be any different?
 
     
So this is where I say goodbye
This is where my story ends
And if there's one thing that I've learned from life
It's that it gets you in the end

 
"Henry Dorsett Case"
"Dark Lord Drake"
The question to me is, why shouldn't they run amok? Or really be smart about it and subtly take whatever they want and all that? I don't understand what would make them behave. After if they're right all morals and stuff are man made and so are the concepts of right and wrong, good and evil and why should they have any kind of regard for those? Not that I think that's a good excuse to force religion as the idea of forcing religion to make people behave is stupid.
One does not have to have a sense of "right and wrong" or "good and evil" to have a moral compass. One can extrapolate a rather functioning morality simply from the desire not to be harmed and an assumption that others also do not wish to be harmed. The simplest statement in that code is "If I were harmed, I would want to gain revenge. It is likely that someone I harm will want to gain revenge on me. If they gain revenge for harm, they will likely harm me. Therefore, I will endeavor not to harm others because of the risk of harm to myself." It can continue for as long as you'd like to think of scenarios.

This differs from the Golden Rule in that it does not necessarily endorse positive action, but instead focuses on non-negative action. Furthermore, it links directly to one's own temporal well-being (will I be harmed?) versus one's potential spiritual well-being (will a deity do something to me after I die for this?). Certainly there are abuses. Some people will take the attitude of "Might makes Right", and decide that it's perfectly OK to harm anyone they don't fear. Considering the things that man has done even with the threat of eternal damnation as a future punishment (or even in the name of the deity that should punish them for what they've done), this really isn't all that different from the potential abuses of a deity-centered morality. If a system of governance is put in place with a similar moral code (holy crap, laws!), then even the abuses can be curtailed to some degree. If the government is corrupt, then you're boned, unless there's some way of altering the governance. Perhaps a system could be set in place in which the people could choose their leaders, and make them fear harm (at least in the loss of their career as leaders) if they harm others. Whoah, holy crap, elections.

Sure, those can be abused too. Find me something that can't. Two-thirds of this planet is covered in a substance that, if you submerge someone in it, they will cease to be able to breathe and die. This entire planet is made of abusable things. Fear of abuse of a system is not the same as proof that the system is bad. If it were, we wouldn't have CD-Rs, blank cassette tapes, VCRs, xerography machines, cars, knives, sharp rocks, pointy twigs, or FIRE. That's right, we would not be allowed to have FIRE if the potential for abuse were to be considered proof that something is bad.

Why should morality be any different?


What you seem to be explaining as a moral compass is just a sense of survival. Not doing something because it risks harm to you isn't moral in the common sense of the word, it's merely reasonable. The thing you don't explain is why "Might makes Right" is an abuse of it. You state it is an abuse, but WHY with no right or wrong is it an abuse? I know instinctively I think it's bad, but rationally see no reason why not if there is no God?

However I would like to point out I don't act good from fear of retribution by God, but rather since it's the right thing to do. I believe if there is a God, there can be an obective right and wrong, otherwise people decide and that's going to be subjective and just a thought people made up.
     
Dream Avi
Totally accepting donations...

I just voted(Atheist, of course) then got quite a shock when I saw how many of the pollers had voted in favor of atheism. Sure is on the rise, or at least people are being more open and honest about it.

But yes, my old science textbooks were my bibles, so naturally I don't agree with any intelligent design theories. I just cannot follow their timelines and theories and make any sense of it.

I don't need a religion to have a relatively well functioning moral compass, personally. I was raised well, or so I'd like to think. There are laws for a reason, because some acts are just obviously not good, no matter who you are.
 
     
~This sig will destroy your room's feng shui.~
 
The thing I have a hard time seeing is WHY are they bad? After all if there is no higher being morality is subjective and right and wrong are nothing but opinion.
     
Dream Avi
Totally accepting donations...

"Tebexi"
"Eoinda"
Quote:
that was a waste of type for you. If any of you fools can prove to me that God is not real, I will give you all that I own, go kill and rape as many people as possible, and then kill myself. If God is not real, then all ten of the commandments are fake so doing what they say not to do is OK.

So you mean there is no meaning in not raping and killing (besides that god said so) interesting.
If god exist you will probably go to hell!


So your only reason not to go out and kill anyone is because you'll go to hell if you do that?

no. it is because God says do not do it.