Does might make right?

[Sir Kyle of Elsewhere]

I have to ask this. So the Christian God doesn't want people to kill, and yet, he has killed for dumber things than man has. Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime, they literally destroyed the life of another human being. However, would anybody in their right mind kill or eternally punish somebody because they don't believe you exist? God has, and many Christians accept that strong contradiction and defend it with "He's God, so his will is always right and just." Would anybody happen to have a reasonable defense to this?

[crimsin eyes]

Sir Kyle of Elsewhere

I have to ask this. So the Christian God doesn't want people to kill, and yet, he has killed for dumber things than man has. Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime, they literally destroyed the life of another human being. However, would anybody in their right mind kill or eternally punish somebody because they don't believe you exist? God has, and many Christians accept that strong contradiction and defend it with "He's God, so his will is always right and just." Would anybody happen to have a reasonable defense to this?

God is reality. He is Love. He is Life. In rejecting Him, man says he desire to live without Him. Hell is God giving man what he wants. An eternity without Him.

Its not Gods will that places people there, it is their own.

Gods will is expressed in John 8:11 where the woman is caught in adultery and about to be stoned. Jesus stops the crouds, sends them away and God who is Judge tells the woman to go forth and sin no more. He does not condone her sin but empowers her to leave it behind.

[stealthmongoose]

crimsin eyes

Sir Kyle of Elsewhere

I have to ask this. So the Christian God doesn't want people to kill, and yet, he has killed for dumber things than man has. Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime, they literally destroyed the life of another human being. However, would anybody in their right mind kill or eternally punish somebody because they don't believe you exist? God has, and many Christians accept that strong contradiction and defend it with "He's God, so his will is always right and just." Would anybody happen to have a reasonable defense to this?

God is reality. He is Love. He is Life. In rejecting Him, man says he desire to live without Him. Hell is God giving man what he wants. An eternity without Him.

Its not Gods will that places people there, it is their own.

Gods will is expressed in John 8:11 where the woman is caught in adultery and about to be stoned. Jesus stops the crouds, sends them away and God who is Judge tells the woman to go forth and sin no more. He does not condone her sin but empowers her to leave it behind.

Your notion of God representing reality doesn't seem to jive considering you've mentioned some things about God that don't appear in reality. The idea of being without God doesn't seem to be Hellish at all, since the universe exists without God and isn't very Hellish for it.

If you're harkening back to Genesis, then we must understand that if we're talking about the God of the same book you describe, he must be all-knowing. Being all-knowing, wouldn't God already know that Adam and Eve would sin since that's how he created them? If this is the case, how was it not God's will that human beings think these sinful thoughts and thus land them in the inferno. Furthermore, how do you account for the millions upon millions of people who are born and die every day without ever hearing about Jesus? Were they ******** from the start since God already knows how their lives are going to play out?

Also, if you're going to cherry pick scripture, one should pay close attention to Matthew 10:34-36 in which JC himself contradicts your assertions of a peaceful, sin-cleansing messiah in order to bring war and conflict within families and peaceful houses.

Isn't that a bit like declaring war on your neighbor for refusing to vote for you as prom king? That's hardly empowering, is it?

[Fermionic]

When a being is defined as ultimately right and just, it thus follows that any disagreement one has with their actions is a fault on one's own part.

[ratgirl34]

According to the Christian Bible, right makes right only if you are Yahweh.

[haunting heaven]

crimsin eyes

Its not Gods will that places people [in hell], it is their own.

1. According to (most) Christians God is all powerful.
2. An omnipotent being's will cannot be thwarted.
3. Meaning anything that happens is part of that being's will, including the suffering of souls in hell, if it exists.
4. So if God desires that all be saved, how can they not be? Doesn't an eternal hell contradict this concept?

[Avgvsto]

Sir Kyle of Elsewhere

Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime.

Why then are both Theseus and Romulus considered some of the greatest men of antiquity if our instinctual human nature would claim them immoral?

[Kimyanji]

Sir Kyle of Elsewhere

I have to ask this. So the Christian God doesn't want people to kill, and yet, he has killed for dumber things than man has. Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime, they literally destroyed the life of another human being. However, would anybody in their right mind kill or eternally punish somebody because they don't believe you exist? God has, and many Christians accept that strong contradiction and defend it with "He's God, so his will is always right and just." Would anybody happen to have a reasonable defense to this?

I think the primary assumption that the "Christian God" does not want people to kill is incorrect. It's correct that God forbids murder, which is the killing of a human being by another human being unlawfully (according to a law established by the Christian God). He however does not forbid all killing.

God doesn't murder anyone because He is not bound by the laws He ordained which also define what is or is not murder.

I can't really speak for Christians particularly, but this is my understanding.

[crimsin eyes]

haunting heaven

crimsin eyes

Its not Gods will that places people [in hell], it is their own.

1. According to (most) Christians God is all powerful.
2. An omnipotent being's will cannot be thwarted.
3. Meaning anything that happens is part of that being's will, including the suffering of souls in hell, if it exists.
4. So if God desires that all be saved, how can they not be? Doesn't an eternal hell contradict this concept?

Your thinking of God correctly, in that He is omnipotent, but wrongly in that He hasn't given humans freedom to choose.

God made man in His own image. One of the most important aspects of God is love. Love is not love if its from a robot. Nobody would ever look to their iPhone or toaster and say that it loves them. It is a machine that does what you tell it to without thought and without desire. If I held a gun to a mans head and told him he had to marry you, would you say he loved you? Love requires free will. Without it, there can be no love. And this is a fundamental characteristic of God, He is free. Totally free to do as He pleases. And in making man in His image, He gave us a likeness of that freedom that we might truly love (which is in my opinion the most beautiful thing anyone can do and life is nothing without it). But in that freedom comes the freedom to choose not to love. This was the choice in the garden of Eden. Man chose not to love and was separated from God. God did not and will never take our freedom of choice from us. But we have fallen from Him (for as Love He can have nothing to do with that which is unloving, as Judge He can not have anything to do with that which is unlawful). God sent His Son to redeem us from our state of death and lawlessness. We now have the choice that was presented to Adam and Eve all over again. But are standing on the other side of the glass. We must choose, to live or to die. There is nothing unloving about God rejecting those who have rejected Him, for it was not God who rejected man but man who rejected God.
If you were to hold out your hand out to a man for many years in hopes of marriage, trying desperately to win his heart only to no avail, eventually getting married to another man and then to have the first man come back and plead for you to get a divorce, your refusal would not be unloving. So is God not unloving.
He loves us regardless of our actions, regardless of what we believe or don't believe. But there will come a time when we have either entered into His love, or we will have rejected it.

So God desires that all be saved, but the definition of Salvation comes from Jesus when He says "This is eternal life, that you would know God". The word "know" here means to become intimately conjoined with. This would not be possible without choice. This would not be possible without love. It would not be possible without the characteristics of who God is.

1-God is Omnipotent
2-Gods will can not therefore be thwarted (Gods will however is that we would know Him, and at the core of who He is is the freedom to chose to do right or wrong. At the core of who He is is Love, it is Justice, for He is Judge)
3-Meaning anything that happens is the choice of man's choosing either the tree of knowledge of good and evil or the Tree of Life (there is truth to the ending theme song in the Emperors New Groove where Theme Song Guy says "A perfect world begins and ends with us" In our choosing to associate with Life or to not) What happens after we choose however is not of our choosing. We have no control over the consequences of our actions (which is to say you may choose to live on a diet of pizza and doughnuts, but you may not then continue to be skinny).
4-They may be saved through the Blood of Jesus. An eternal hell does not contradict this. For there is nothing unloving in God leaving those who have rejected Him (who is Life) without Him (which is hell), for He literally gave His life in hopes they would live.

(aslo please forgive me if your not a girl sweatdrop your picture was not displayed and I could tell by your name and all my analogies are in the context of a heterosexual woman and I never meant to offend you in any way only illustrate things whee )

[crimsin eyes]

The Legendary Guest

crimsin eyes

Sir Kyle of Elsewhere

I have to ask this. So the Christian God doesn't want people to kill, and yet, he has killed for dumber things than man has. Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime, they literally destroyed the life of another human being. However, would anybody in their right mind kill or eternally punish somebody because they don't believe you exist? God has, and many Christians accept that strong contradiction and defend it with "He's God, so his will is always right and just." Would anybody happen to have a reasonable defense to this?

God is reality.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Gods do not fit this definition.

Quote:

He is Love.

Love is an emotion. If you define a god as an emotion, all you are doing is defining the god into existence, but that's not demonstrating anything other than that the emotion exists.

Quote:

He is Life.

Life is a state of being. You do not get to define a god as a state of being unless you can demonstrate the god first has anything to do with said state of being. We know what indicates the state of being alive, and what evidence have you got for a god having anything to do with that?

Quote:

In rejecting Him, man says he desire to live without Him. Hell is God giving man what he wants. An eternity without Him.

This is preaching, which is forbidden by the forum rules. Also, nice threat. Do you sincerely believe that a god who is love would have to threaten people to love it in return?

Quote:

Its not Gods will that places people there, it is their own.

This is nonsense. Demonstrate that the god exists, by showing us a model of a world in which the god does not exist.

Quote:

Gods will is expressed in John 8:11 where the woman is caught in adultery and about to be stoned. Jesus stops the crouds, sends them away and God who is Judge tells the woman to go forth and sin no more. He does not condone her sin but empowers her to leave it behind.

The bible is not evidence, it is the claim. Try demonstrating the god without using the claim to prove the claim, which is viciously circular.

“Think of an experience from your childhood. Something you remember clearly, something you can see, feel, maybe even smell, as if you were really there. After all you really were there at the time, weren't you? How else could you remember it? But here is the bombshell: you weren't there. Not a single atom that is in your body today was there when that event took place. Every bit of you has been replaced many times over (which is why you eat, of course). You are not even the same shape as you were then. The point is that you are like a cloud: something that persists over long periods, while simultaneously being in flux. Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you. Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made. If that does not make the hair stand up on the back of your neck, read it again until it does, because it is important.”
-Steve Grand,

I thought this was cool thought.

God Bless you.

[crimsin eyes]

stealthmongoose

crimsin eyes

Sir Kyle of Elsewhere

I have to ask this. So the Christian God doesn't want people to kill, and yet, he has killed for dumber things than man has. Now I believe that anybody who were to witness a homicide or a rape would more than likely agree that the aggressor probably deserves to die for the crime, they literally destroyed the life of another human being. However, would anybody in their right mind kill or eternally punish somebody because they don't believe you exist? God has, and many Christians accept that strong contradiction and defend it with "He's God, so his will is always right and just." Would anybody happen to have a reasonable defense to this?

God is reality. He is Love. He is Life. In rejecting Him, man says he desire to live without Him. Hell is God giving man what he wants. An eternity without Him.

Its not Gods will that places people there, it is their own.

Gods will is expressed in John 8:11 where the woman is caught in adultery and about to be stoned. Jesus stops the crouds, sends them away and God who is Judge tells the woman to go forth and sin no more. He does not condone her sin but empowers her to leave it behind.

Your notion of God representing reality doesn't seem to jive considering you've mentioned some things about God that don't appear in reality. The idea of being without God doesn't seem to be Hellish at all, since the universe exists without God and isn't very Hellish for it.

If you're harkening back to Genesis, then we must understand that if we're talking about the God of the same book you describe, he must be all-knowing. Being all-knowing, wouldn't God already know that Adam and Eve would sin since that's how he created them? If this is the case, how was it not God's will that human beings think these sinful thoughts and thus land them in the inferno. Furthermore, how do you account for the millions upon millions of people who are born and die every day without ever hearing about Jesus? Were they ******** from the start since God already knows how their lives are going to play out?

Also, if you're going to cherry pick scripture, one should pay close attention to Matthew 10:34-36 in which JC himself contradicts your assertions of a peaceful, sin-cleansing messiah in order to bring war and conflict within families and peaceful houses.

Isn't that a bit like declaring war on your neighbor for refusing to vote for you as prom king? That's hardly empowering, is it?

1- the universe exists without God and isn't very Hellish
1- No, no it doesn't - "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

2- how was it not God's will that human beings think these sinful thoughts and thus land them in the inferno
2-This is a big thought. I don't honestly know. I don't know if any man can. They probably can not. If I was forced to answer however I think my answer would be that, the choice was to create and to love and to sacrifice or to not. And even tho many people chose to die, choosing to bring about life was better.

3-how do you account for the millions upon millions of people who are born and die every day without ever hearing about Jesus?
3- In the Declaration of Independence, the Founding Fathers begin the document with the source of their revelation, the basis for their truth. They exalt Nature, and Natures God. God is not only reveled through His word, but through His creation. Through His art is the Artists seen. Not only through His poetry or words but through that which He has fashioned and crafted.
-Romans 1:19-20 - "because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."
-This is also what I speak of in #1

4-Matthew 10:34-36
4-"The light of Christ disperses the darkness of the devils lies. But in so doing it splits human society and draws a line through the center of every human heart. In a fallen world -- a world divided into warring camps -- the Truth gains enemies simple by being true"
-CSLewis
This is what Jesus meant and was talking about when He said that He came to bring not peace but a sword.
You may also see Eph 6:12 where Paul elaborates on this war.