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Masrur Fanalis's avatar

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Yet again, you block out what I tell you. You asked me why I believe in God, I answer your question, and so you throw a fit and swear for no reason at all. I'm sorry you cant comprehend the existence of God. A boy at my christian school is uncircumcised. Yes, there's christians who are uncircumcised. Never met one guy who hates being circumcised. There's atheist parents who circumcise their children, you know that right? What are you trying to prove here?

Your trying to complain that you were forced to take part in a covenant with a "god" you don't believe in? Let me ask you this, do you celebrate christmas even though its a christian holiday?

So you do confirm you hate christians, huh? Reminds me of a verse.

Mark 13:13
King James Bible

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."



I do my own thinking.
if ye are hated of all men, that includes people who share your beliefs as well.

The christians were being addressed to. Christians can't hate other christians because of jesus's name sake, except if they weren't truly christian.
Where does it say that in the bible? But ok, there are like so many subdivisions of christianity, Im sure some have hated each other in the past. How do you know which subdivision of christianity is the true one?

You constantly ask where in the Bible it says it. Whatever happened to "who cares what the Bible says?" Which part are you talking about, the part that christians shouldn't hate or the part that he's adressing the people who accept him, christians?
Because I was trying to use the bible you believe, to show it is contradicting to itself or your beliefs.

'ye shall be hated of all men' is what I was addressing.

I forget much of what we argued over yesterday because its been a long sort of arduous, and sorry for swearing so much. But I still think christianity is bad because I feel christianity holds back some things. Just like how the vatican tries to withhold people sending condoms to africa to reduce the spread of aids and to reduce having babies who are going to just starve. Its not directly related to christianity however, so I should think of more examples. How people don't advocate the use of stem cells for example, because they say its like killing a baby. Them thinking science is faith based, its not really science was made to try and find facts, religion was made for or is used as explanations that facts provide, comparatively. Another thing is forms of christianity promote alot of conflict, such as thinking I could go to hell for masturbation, which is traumatizing. The puritans would whip themselves to remove 'sinful thoughts', I know you are not a puritan, but thats what our ancestors were like. Now if people did that they would be locked away in a mental hospital. And what happens when our feelings promote sinful thoughts? We would punish ourselves, which creates a great internal struggle. I dont think thats righteous.

Our internal struggles can cause us to snap, can cause us to forget those around us. Can cause break-downs. I think its not productive for society, and each generation has to deal with this. I guess I could blame social culture more than religion, because peopel who leave the religion are still passing on some of those corrupt ideals to their children. The bible also says its okay to beat your wife with a stick if she doesnt obey you, doesnt mean its correct. Yet people still try and justify their actions refering to the bible. Its detrimental to society. Bullies tend to be people who were bullied as well, and they do it as a form of coping, they need therapy not jail time, but for some its too late. And god, the one fromt he bible, seems like a bully to me. DO this or you will burn in hell, you must follow me, Im loving but die if you disobey me. Its an authoritative father-like figure, thats why males are so messed up these days, they have ridiculous expectations to be manly, and ignore their feelings. Ignoring feelings causes people to do things they regret, causes them to dislike themselves, even hate themselves. Psychologically, your quote promotes hate, because it is the topic of the quote. It forms our associations of hate. 'ye shall be hated of all men', is also a divide and conquer strategy. It promotes conflict, seperation from other groups. A minor disagreement cna be misconstrued as a judgemental thought and you get defensive trying to defend your belief because of the misunderstanding. Then they think, this guy hates me, I wont have anything to do with this heathen! They seperate. Divide and conquer is used, historically, as a means for war or political gain, by promoting conflict to make groups that normally could rebel against them, smaller and less competent at it, with politics it causes an us vs them mentality.

Also about the quote, christianity is widespread as well, so itd be hard to say that they will be hated by many, christianity was a minority back when the bible was made probably. Now its not the case.

Ah okay.

Vatican is catholicism.
What denomination says you go to hell for masturbation? As christians we believe that we can't go to hell for our sins because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross. To tell the truth, I have a hard time with masturbation xP
Maybe the puritans did that because they didn't want to do something they'd considered bad?
How is God a bully? He tells you not to do things that are sinful, which will benefit you. The "do this and that" is someway of describing religion. We christian do not see our "religion" like that. We see it as a relationship with Him.
We all die. What are you saying?
No. It doesn't promote hatred. It just clearly says that christians will be hated because of jesus' name sake. you for instance hate christians. You declared so yourself.although it is widespread, it is a minority compared to the rest of the world. When I look throughout Gaiaonline, I can see that people don't enjoy christians very much. :l

Btw where in the bible did it say that?
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries

The christians were being addressed to. Christians can't hate other christians because of jesus's name sake, except if they weren't truly christian.
Where does it say that in the bible? But ok, there are like so many subdivisions of christianity, Im sure some have hated each other in the past. How do you know which subdivision of christianity is the true one?

You constantly ask where in the Bible it says it. Whatever happened to "who cares what the Bible says?" Which part are you talking about, the part that christians shouldn't hate or the part that he's adressing the people who accept him, christians?
Because I was trying to use the bible you believe, to show it is contradicting to itself or your beliefs.

'ye shall be hated of all men' is what I was addressing.

I forget much of what we argued over yesterday because its been a long sort of arduous, and sorry for swearing so much. But I still think christianity is bad because I feel christianity holds back some things. Just like how the vatican tries to withhold people sending condoms to africa to reduce the spread of aids and to reduce having babies who are going to just starve. Its not directly related to christianity however, so I should think of more examples. How people don't advocate the use of stem cells for example, because they say its like killing a baby. Them thinking science is faith based, its not really science was made to try and find facts, religion was made for or is used as explanations that facts provide, comparatively. Another thing is forms of christianity promote alot of conflict, such as thinking I could go to hell for masturbation, which is traumatizing. The puritans would whip themselves to remove 'sinful thoughts', I know you are not a puritan, but thats what our ancestors were like. Now if people did that they would be locked away in a mental hospital. And what happens when our feelings promote sinful thoughts? We would punish ourselves, which creates a great internal struggle. I dont think thats righteous.

Our internal struggles can cause us to snap, can cause us to forget those around us. Can cause break-downs. I think its not productive for society, and each generation has to deal with this. I guess I could blame social culture more than religion, because peopel who leave the religion are still passing on some of those corrupt ideals to their children. The bible also says its okay to beat your wife with a stick if she doesnt obey you, doesnt mean its correct. Yet people still try and justify their actions refering to the bible. Its detrimental to society. Bullies tend to be people who were bullied as well, and they do it as a form of coping, they need therapy not jail time, but for some its too late. And god, the one fromt he bible, seems like a bully to me. DO this or you will burn in hell, you must follow me, Im loving but die if you disobey me. Its an authoritative father-like figure, thats why males are so messed up these days, they have ridiculous expectations to be manly, and ignore their feelings. Ignoring feelings causes people to do things they regret, causes them to dislike themselves, even hate themselves. Psychologically, your quote promotes hate, because it is the topic of the quote. It forms our associations of hate. 'ye shall be hated of all men', is also a divide and conquer strategy. It promotes conflict, seperation from other groups. A minor disagreement cna be misconstrued as a judgemental thought and you get defensive trying to defend your belief because of the misunderstanding. Then they think, this guy hates me, I wont have anything to do with this heathen! They seperate. Divide and conquer is used, historically, as a means for war or political gain, by promoting conflict to make groups that normally could rebel against them, smaller and less competent at it, with politics it causes an us vs them mentality.

Also about the quote, christianity is widespread as well, so itd be hard to say that they will be hated by many, christianity was a minority back when the bible was made probably. Now its not the case.

Ah okay.

Vatican is catholicism.
What denomination says you go to hell for masturbation? As christians we believe that we can't go to hell for our sins because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross. To tell the truth, I have a hard time with masturbation xP
Maybe the puritans did that because they didn't want to do something they'd considered bad?
How is God a bully? He tells you not to do things that are sinful, which will benefit you. The "do this and that" is someway of describing religion. We christian do not see our "religion" like that. We see it as a relationship with Him.
We all die. What are you saying?
No. It doesn't promote hatred. It just clearly says that christians will be hated because of jesus' name sake. you for instance hate christians. You declared so yourself.although it is widespread, it is a minority compared to the rest of the world. When I look throughout Gaiaonline, I can see that people don't enjoy christians very much. :l

Btw where in the bible did it say that?
Where did it say what? The wife beating thing? *googles* could only find rule of thumb, guess I was mistaken about that, still gonna google a little more.
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html I was wrong, but the bible still is sexist.
Camillo
1. If you accept the viewpoint that it is entirely possible God does not exist by virtue of the inability to disprove the hypothesis, can we not accept the following possibilities as equally valid:

- Many of the miracles and events of the Bible are either fable and folklore, or have an explanation that can be accounted for within the realm of the natural world?


You like to put us through our paces don't you. XD

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the events in the Bible were indeed folklore or exaggerated. Though I haven't researched it yet, I recently read a historical epic novel (The Dove Keepers by Alice Hoffman) in which Judaism featured heavily, and before then I hadn't realized how mystical Judaism was, especially in that time. It's common throughout history for people to create exaggerated stories, especially in a context with religion where people wanted to convince potential followers to join them.

On the other hand, there have been modern accounts of miracles for which no scientific explanation has been found. So what does that say about the events described in the Bible?

I'm of the opinion that some of it is true accounts (such as The Passion) and some of it was based on true events and exaggerated (maybe Jesus didn't literally transform water into wine, maybe he found an extra store or bought more wine on behalf of the groom, and replaced the water that was there).

Quote:
- The amount of multiplicity involved with faith-based belief (for example, God exists AND He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent AND He has a plan for you AND failure to follow that plan will result in eternal suffering) expresses either a formalized system of social engineering or can exist as ethical guidelines outside the existence of said deity (for example, love thy neighbor is great advice, whether or not you're going to be on fire forever if you don't)?


I think the beliefs taught in Christianity is good advice, whether or not you follow it. Most religions have the same basic belief system because it's how we expect decent human beings to act. But then again, I also have a bias.

Quote:
- The division of faith in God and good works demands to acceptance of the belief structure in full, rather than attempting to achieve general social good without creating an infrastructure of worshippers, and therefore more resembles a cult of enlightenment rather than a pathway for each individual to seek on their own without reliance on central leadership? Therefore, should we not accept that good words are more important than faith, because faith without works is nothing, while works without faith still result in a better world, ignoring the argument that "a world without God is the worst of all possible worlds," which is debatable at best?


I think it's more important to do good works than believe in a God. Belief in God serves as motivation to do good works, but I'd like to think us humans can do it without an external motivation.

Belief in God I think should be more of a personal choice, but we're called to do good works regardless of whether our religion is motivation or not.

Quote:
2. With an understanding that God controls all of reality, including the primal forces of nature, or at the very least summoned them into being and they act in accordance to His will (if you want to be reductive about it anyway), explain innocent children being killed in earthquakes, floods, and other indifferent and impartial natural forces. We either accept that God acts directly within our world and causes these incidents to happen, which sounds like he willfully kills innocents with no rational explanation within the confines of the Bible; or, and the more likely scenario, He does not interact with our world directly, meaning that earthquakes and floods happen "just because."


I think God directly interferes in human lives, but natural phenomena is more of a 'clockwork' where it was preplanned and set up, and now it 'just happens' and God has no control over it, or He doesn't make any effort to.

Or alternatively, God doesn't control the weather, He tries to place human beings where He wants us to be . . . but freewill doesn't always allow it to work out.



And now I'm burning with curiosity because I can't figure it out--what are YOUR personal beliefs? biggrin
Masrur Fanalis's avatar

Distinct Seeker

We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries

The christians were being addressed to. Christians can't hate other christians because of jesus's name sake, except if they weren't truly christian.
Where does it say that in the bible? But ok, there are like so many subdivisions of christianity, Im sure some have hated each other in the past. How do you know which subdivision of christianity is the true one?

You constantly ask where in the Bible it says it. Whatever happened to "who cares what the Bible says?" Which part are you talking about, the part that christians shouldn't hate or the part that he's adressing the people who accept him, christians?
Because I was trying to use the bible you believe, to show it is contradicting to itself or your beliefs.

'ye shall be hated of all men' is what I was addressing.

I forget much of what we argued over yesterday because its been a long sort of arduous, and sorry for swearing so much. But I still think christianity is bad because I feel christianity holds back some things. Just like how the vatican tries to withhold people sending condoms to africa to reduce the spread of aids and to reduce having babies who are going to just starve. Its not directly related to christianity however, so I should think of more examples. How people don't advocate the use of stem cells for example, because they say its like killing a baby. Them thinking science is faith based, its not really science was made to try and find facts, religion was made for or is used as explanations that facts provide, comparatively. Another thing is forms of christianity promote alot of conflict, such as thinking I could go to hell for masturbation, which is traumatizing. The puritans would whip themselves to remove 'sinful thoughts', I know you are not a puritan, but thats what our ancestors were like. Now if people did that they would be locked away in a mental hospital. And what happens when our feelings promote sinful thoughts? We would punish ourselves, which creates a great internal struggle. I dont think thats righteous.

Our internal struggles can cause us to snap, can cause us to forget those around us. Can cause break-downs. I think its not productive for society, and each generation has to deal with this. I guess I could blame social culture more than religion, because peopel who leave the religion are still passing on some of those corrupt ideals to their children. The bible also says its okay to beat your wife with a stick if she doesnt obey you, doesnt mean its correct. Yet people still try and justify their actions refering to the bible. Its detrimental to society. Bullies tend to be people who were bullied as well, and they do it as a form of coping, they need therapy not jail time, but for some its too late. And god, the one fromt he bible, seems like a bully to me. DO this or you will burn in hell, you must follow me, Im loving but die if you disobey me. Its an authoritative father-like figure, thats why males are so messed up these days, they have ridiculous expectations to be manly, and ignore their feelings. Ignoring feelings causes people to do things they regret, causes them to dislike themselves, even hate themselves. Psychologically, your quote promotes hate, because it is the topic of the quote. It forms our associations of hate. 'ye shall be hated of all men', is also a divide and conquer strategy. It promotes conflict, seperation from other groups. A minor disagreement cna be misconstrued as a judgemental thought and you get defensive trying to defend your belief because of the misunderstanding. Then they think, this guy hates me, I wont have anything to do with this heathen! They seperate. Divide and conquer is used, historically, as a means for war or political gain, by promoting conflict to make groups that normally could rebel against them, smaller and less competent at it, with politics it causes an us vs them mentality.

Also about the quote, christianity is widespread as well, so itd be hard to say that they will be hated by many, christianity was a minority back when the bible was made probably. Now its not the case.

Ah okay.

Vatican is catholicism.
What denomination says you go to hell for masturbation? As christians we believe that we can't go to hell for our sins because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross. To tell the truth, I have a hard time with masturbation xP
Maybe the puritans did that because they didn't want to do something they'd considered bad?
How is God a bully? He tells you not to do things that are sinful, which will benefit you. The "do this and that" is someway of describing religion. We christian do not see our "religion" like that. We see it as a relationship with Him.
We all die. What are you saying?
No. It doesn't promote hatred. It just clearly says that christians will be hated because of jesus' name sake. you for instance hate christians. You declared so yourself.although it is widespread, it is a minority compared to the rest of the world. When I look throughout Gaiaonline, I can see that people don't enjoy christians very much. :l

Btw where in the bible did it say that?
Where did it say what? The wife beating thing? *googles* could only find rule of thumb, guess I was mistaken about that, still gonna google a little more.
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html I was wrong, but the bible still is sexist.

Yeah...that's in the quran. Have you ever actually study the bible?(if I may ask) :l
You should before making those kind of claims....
How is the bible sexist? There are many great women of the Bible...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/5-strong-women-from-the-bible/
And there's way more than that.
Is it sexist because God is male? What if He was female? It would still be sexist, right?
Because Eve, a woman, ate the forbidden fruit? So did Adam. In fact, Adam was with her when it happened. Authority was given to man over woman was a punishment of what Eve did...

Gen3: 16-19 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” NIV

Because wives must be submissive to their husband? Let me answer this with our culture point of view of relationships:
The husband takes care of the wife.
The man wears the pants in the relationship.
The man is expected to lead the women on the right track and be a positive influence on her.

See where I'm going with this? I can see how girls would think its sexism, but its more simple to see it through our culture today.
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries

You constantly ask where in the Bible it says it. Whatever happened to "who cares what the Bible says?" Which part are you talking about, the part that christians shouldn't hate or the part that he's adressing the people who accept him, christians?
Because I was trying to use the bible you believe, to show it is contradicting to itself or your beliefs.

'ye shall be hated of all men' is what I was addressing.

I forget much of what we argued over yesterday because its been a long sort of arduous, and sorry for swearing so much. But I still think christianity is bad because I feel christianity holds back some things. Just like how the vatican tries to withhold people sending condoms to africa to reduce the spread of aids and to reduce having babies who are going to just starve. Its not directly related to christianity however, so I should think of more examples. How people don't advocate the use of stem cells for example, because they say its like killing a baby. Them thinking science is faith based, its not really science was made to try and find facts, religion was made for or is used as explanations that facts provide, comparatively. Another thing is forms of christianity promote alot of conflict, such as thinking I could go to hell for masturbation, which is traumatizing. The puritans would whip themselves to remove 'sinful thoughts', I know you are not a puritan, but thats what our ancestors were like. Now if people did that they would be locked away in a mental hospital. And what happens when our feelings promote sinful thoughts? We would punish ourselves, which creates a great internal struggle. I dont think thats righteous.

Our internal struggles can cause us to snap, can cause us to forget those around us. Can cause break-downs. I think its not productive for society, and each generation has to deal with this. I guess I could blame social culture more than religion, because peopel who leave the religion are still passing on some of those corrupt ideals to their children. The bible also says its okay to beat your wife with a stick if she doesnt obey you, doesnt mean its correct. Yet people still try and justify their actions refering to the bible. Its detrimental to society. Bullies tend to be people who were bullied as well, and they do it as a form of coping, they need therapy not jail time, but for some its too late. And god, the one fromt he bible, seems like a bully to me. DO this or you will burn in hell, you must follow me, Im loving but die if you disobey me. Its an authoritative father-like figure, thats why males are so messed up these days, they have ridiculous expectations to be manly, and ignore their feelings. Ignoring feelings causes people to do things they regret, causes them to dislike themselves, even hate themselves. Psychologically, your quote promotes hate, because it is the topic of the quote. It forms our associations of hate. 'ye shall be hated of all men', is also a divide and conquer strategy. It promotes conflict, seperation from other groups. A minor disagreement cna be misconstrued as a judgemental thought and you get defensive trying to defend your belief because of the misunderstanding. Then they think, this guy hates me, I wont have anything to do with this heathen! They seperate. Divide and conquer is used, historically, as a means for war or political gain, by promoting conflict to make groups that normally could rebel against them, smaller and less competent at it, with politics it causes an us vs them mentality.

Also about the quote, christianity is widespread as well, so itd be hard to say that they will be hated by many, christianity was a minority back when the bible was made probably. Now its not the case.

Ah okay.

Vatican is catholicism.
What denomination says you go to hell for masturbation? As christians we believe that we can't go to hell for our sins because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross. To tell the truth, I have a hard time with masturbation xP
Maybe the puritans did that because they didn't want to do something they'd considered bad?
How is God a bully? He tells you not to do things that are sinful, which will benefit you. The "do this and that" is someway of describing religion. We christian do not see our "religion" like that. We see it as a relationship with Him.
We all die. What are you saying?
No. It doesn't promote hatred. It just clearly says that christians will be hated because of jesus' name sake. you for instance hate christians. You declared so yourself.although it is widespread, it is a minority compared to the rest of the world. When I look throughout Gaiaonline, I can see that people don't enjoy christians very much. :l

Btw where in the bible did it say that?
Where did it say what? The wife beating thing? *googles* could only find rule of thumb, guess I was mistaken about that, still gonna google a little more.
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html I was wrong, but the bible still is sexist.

Yeah...that's in the quran. Have you ever actually study the bible?(if I may ask) :l
You should before making those kind of claims....
How is the bible sexist? There are many great women of the Bible...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/5-strong-women-from-the-bible/
And there's way more than that.
Is it sexist because God is male? What if He was female? It would still be sexist, right?
Because Eve, a woman, ate the forbidden fruit? So did Adam. In fact, Adam was with her when it happened. Authority was given to man over woman was a punishment of what Eve did...

Gen3: 16-19 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” NIV

Because wives must be submissive to their husband? Let me answer this with our culture point of view of relationships:
The husband takes care of the wife.
The man wears the pants in the relationship.
The man is expected to lead the women on the right track and be a positive influence on her.

See where I'm going with this? I can see how girls would think its sexism, but its more simple to see it through our culture today.
hmmmm
Masrur Fanalis's avatar

Distinct Seeker

We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries

You constantly ask where in the Bible it says it. Whatever happened to "who cares what the Bible says?" Which part are you talking about, the part that christians shouldn't hate or the part that he's adressing the people who accept him, christians?
Because I was trying to use the bible you believe, to show it is contradicting to itself or your beliefs.

'ye shall be hated of all men' is what I was addressing.

I forget much of what we argued over yesterday because its been a long sort of arduous, and sorry for swearing so much. But I still think christianity is bad because I feel christianity holds back some things. Just like how the vatican tries to withhold people sending condoms to africa to reduce the spread of aids and to reduce having babies who are going to just starve. Its not directly related to christianity however, so I should think of more examples. How people don't advocate the use of stem cells for example, because they say its like killing a baby. Them thinking science is faith based, its not really science was made to try and find facts, religion was made for or is used as explanations that facts provide, comparatively. Another thing is forms of christianity promote alot of conflict, such as thinking I could go to hell for masturbation, which is traumatizing. The puritans would whip themselves to remove 'sinful thoughts', I know you are not a puritan, but thats what our ancestors were like. Now if people did that they would be locked away in a mental hospital. And what happens when our feelings promote sinful thoughts? We would punish ourselves, which creates a great internal struggle. I dont think thats righteous.

Our internal struggles can cause us to snap, can cause us to forget those around us. Can cause break-downs. I think its not productive for society, and each generation has to deal with this. I guess I could blame social culture more than religion, because peopel who leave the religion are still passing on some of those corrupt ideals to their children. The bible also says its okay to beat your wife with a stick if she doesnt obey you, doesnt mean its correct. Yet people still try and justify their actions refering to the bible. Its detrimental to society. Bullies tend to be people who were bullied as well, and they do it as a form of coping, they need therapy not jail time, but for some its too late. And god, the one fromt he bible, seems like a bully to me. DO this or you will burn in hell, you must follow me, Im loving but die if you disobey me. Its an authoritative father-like figure, thats why males are so messed up these days, they have ridiculous expectations to be manly, and ignore their feelings. Ignoring feelings causes people to do things they regret, causes them to dislike themselves, even hate themselves. Psychologically, your quote promotes hate, because it is the topic of the quote. It forms our associations of hate. 'ye shall be hated of all men', is also a divide and conquer strategy. It promotes conflict, seperation from other groups. A minor disagreement cna be misconstrued as a judgemental thought and you get defensive trying to defend your belief because of the misunderstanding. Then they think, this guy hates me, I wont have anything to do with this heathen! They seperate. Divide and conquer is used, historically, as a means for war or political gain, by promoting conflict to make groups that normally could rebel against them, smaller and less competent at it, with politics it causes an us vs them mentality.

Also about the quote, christianity is widespread as well, so itd be hard to say that they will be hated by many, christianity was a minority back when the bible was made probably. Now its not the case.

Ah okay.

Vatican is catholicism.
What denomination says you go to hell for masturbation? As christians we believe that we can't go to hell for our sins because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross. To tell the truth, I have a hard time with masturbation xP
Maybe the puritans did that because they didn't want to do something they'd considered bad?
How is God a bully? He tells you not to do things that are sinful, which will benefit you. The "do this and that" is someway of describing religion. We christian do not see our "religion" like that. We see it as a relationship with Him.
We all die. What are you saying?
No. It doesn't promote hatred. It just clearly says that christians will be hated because of jesus' name sake. you for instance hate christians. You declared so yourself.although it is widespread, it is a minority compared to the rest of the world. When I look throughout Gaiaonline, I can see that people don't enjoy christians very much. :l

Btw where in the bible did it say that?
Where did it say what? The wife beating thing? *googles* could only find rule of thumb, guess I was mistaken about that, still gonna google a little more.
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html I was wrong, but the bible still is sexist.

Yeah...that's in the quran. Have you ever actually study the bible?(if I may ask) :l
You should before making those kind of claims....
How is the bible sexist? There are many great women of the Bible...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/5-strong-women-from-the-bible/
And there's way more than that.
Is it sexist because God is male? What if He was female? It would still be sexist, right?
Because Eve, a woman, ate the forbidden fruit? So did Adam. In fact, Adam was with her when it happened. Authority was given to man over woman was a punishment of what Eve did...

Gen3: 16-19 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” NIV

Because wives must be submissive to their husband? Let me answer this with our culture point of view of relationships:
The husband takes care of the wife.
The man wears the pants in the relationship.
The man is expected to lead the women on the right track and be a positive influence on her.

See where I'm going with this? I can see how girls would think its sexism, but its more simple to see it through our culture today.
hmmmm

Hmmmm indeed. C:
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries
We Are Organisms
Ate Your Fries

Ah okay.

Vatican is catholicism.
What denomination says you go to hell for masturbation? As christians we believe that we can't go to hell for our sins because Jesus paid the price for us on the cross. To tell the truth, I have a hard time with masturbation xP
Maybe the puritans did that because they didn't want to do something they'd considered bad?
How is God a bully? He tells you not to do things that are sinful, which will benefit you. The "do this and that" is someway of describing religion. We christian do not see our "religion" like that. We see it as a relationship with Him.
We all die. What are you saying?
No. It doesn't promote hatred. It just clearly says that christians will be hated because of jesus' name sake. you for instance hate christians. You declared so yourself.although it is widespread, it is a minority compared to the rest of the world. When I look throughout Gaiaonline, I can see that people don't enjoy christians very much. :l

Btw where in the bible did it say that?
Where did it say what? The wife beating thing? *googles* could only find rule of thumb, guess I was mistaken about that, still gonna google a little more.
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html I was wrong, but the bible still is sexist.

Yeah...that's in the quran. Have you ever actually study the bible?(if I may ask) :l
You should before making those kind of claims....
How is the bible sexist? There are many great women of the Bible...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/5-strong-women-from-the-bible/
And there's way more than that.
Is it sexist because God is male? What if He was female? It would still be sexist, right?
Because Eve, a woman, ate the forbidden fruit? So did Adam. In fact, Adam was with her when it happened. Authority was given to man over woman was a punishment of what Eve did...

Gen3: 16-19 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” NIV

Because wives must be submissive to their husband? Let me answer this with our culture point of view of relationships:
The husband takes care of the wife.
The man wears the pants in the relationship.
The man is expected to lead the women on the right track and be a positive influence on her.

See where I'm going with this? I can see how girls would think its sexism, but its more simple to see it through our culture today.
hmmmm

Hmmmm indeed. C:
lol
Well I did lose interest since I threw all my stronger, although ruder, arguements at the beginning.
I don't believe in God because of contradictions I see, such as historically believers have been used and manipulated, like crusades. Witch hunts. Witch hunts honestly were to take pwoer away from alternate faiths, as the crusades were. What happened to love thy neighbor? lol.

Not all christians are bad, but also I thinkc hristianity is a hindrance to forms of progress, not that Im supporting everyone be robots. People can love without religion, those people who are pure intentioned, if god were real, would be forgiven I believe. But what of a murderer or rapist? people think even if they believe that they will be saved. That is unfair, when someone who is pure can be condemned, because of an opposing faith.
Christians don't do it today, because of governments, they say they dont do bad cuz its illegal, well I wouldnt do bad if its legal or not, although calling it 'bad' is biased.
Alot of people say without the law or god people wouldnt be moral. Religion and the governments werent even moral in the first place so I dont see how this arguement should be used, and I dont mean to imply you have used it.

Alot of people dont care about the little things, like choosing something tasty vs healthy, something pretty instead of proper. Because they have heaven to look forward to, they dont have a reason to care about their health. But when people are unhealthy they get moody, when they are moody they say things they dont intend and hurt feelings, when they hurt feelings, people start believing what they hear if they are kids, then those kids have problems and no one cares because no one gives a f** about anything but their souls and their family's souls. Its why some christian nearly beat to death the girl his sister was dating, he wanted to save his sister's soul.

And 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. SO really, I will never believe that nonsense again. But yeah, not every christian is bad.

But the fact that countries with higher rates of atheism also have better education alone should say that when they reached a certain knowledge they came to not believe in god, and poor countries tend to believe more because its easier for the suffering to believe, because they can cope and distract themselves with it.

If I cannot convince you I cannot convince you.
Ate Your Fries

Yeah...that's in the quran. Have you ever actually study the bible?(if I may ask) :l
You should before making those kind of claims....
How is the bible sexist? There are many great women of the Bible...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/5-strong-women-from-the-bible/
And there's way more than that.
Is it sexist because God is male? What if He was female? It would still be sexist, right?
Because Eve, a woman, ate the forbidden fruit? So did Adam. In fact, Adam was with her when it happened. Authority was given to man over woman was a punishment of what Eve did...

Gen3: 16-19 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” NIV

Because wives must be submissive to their husband? Let me answer this with our culture point of view of relationships:
The husband takes care of the wife.
The man wears the pants in the relationship.
The man is expected to lead the women on the right track and be a positive influence on her.

See where I'm going with this? I can see how girls would think its sexism, but its more simple to see it through our culture today.


I'm in agreement with you that there are many strong women in the Bible, I look up to them very much so. c:

God isn't male, the human aspect of God is male. God is an omniscient being beyond the limits of gender and more of a force--we just personify God as Christians to better understand Him within out human limits. And it makes it feel more personal. c:

That view of marriage is actually quite sexist--it assumes men are better than women when this isn't true. It also creates absolute dependency in a relationship which is unhealthy and can be abusive.

I've been in an emotionally abusive relationship before, and my ex did everything he could to make me emotionally, spiritually, and mentally dependent on him. When he and I began to grow apart and I began to develop my own independence, he didn't like it because he no longer had power over me, and ended our relationship. And then he said it was my fault.

So, sorry but I don't buy that bullshit, even as a Christian.
Camillo's avatar

Hilarious Genius

Kashii_Ai
You like to put us through our paces don't you. XD

I used to attend church twice a week and spent my summer vacations at Christian camps. Eventually I had to start asking actual questions to which no answer arose that didn't lead directly to "so it's bullshit, then."

I only enjoy challenging the beliefs of others because, to me, the worst kind of person is someone who can fervently devote themselves to an idea which they do not understand.

Kashii_Ai
And now I'm burning with curiosity because I can't figure it out--what are YOUR personal beliefs? biggrin

I believe the universe and by extension any extant gods are largely indifferent to us. I believe that there are as many true paths to happiness as there are humans to walk them. I believe that the god-of-the-gaps is shrinking by the day, and that we or our descendant species will one day be able to fully explain all of the wonders of the universe. I believe that explaining the universe does not make it less wondrous at all. I believe that debating the validity of unproveable concepts requires knowledge of that concept, which is contradictory.

I am an atheist, if I had to give myself an -ist.
Camillo's avatar

Hilarious Genius

Kashii_Ai
and I feel like it's too perfect for someone NOT to be running the show. XD

The universe happened the way how it did because that's how it works. The rules of nature deem that this universe is the only universe that could have emerged, including the very small: this planet is being ruined by humans, because what humans do is incompatible with the ecosystem of the planet we live on, because we adapted and evolved that way. Simple cause and effect, with even one piece out of place resulting in a universe that is completely different from ours. The problem is, if you create a universe, by extension you create the problems of that universe and must explain or be culpable for significant flaws in your design.

I mean, any other explanation requires faith in a god that is an absolute sociopath.
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Kuroko and the Lamb
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Luke 14: 26-27
Quote:
If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.


I understand Jesus isn't commanding us to hate our neighbor, rather he is emphasizing the great difference between our devotion and love to him and the people around us. Jesus is directing us to make Him the priority in our life.
And what does that mean, to make Jesus a priority in one's life?

Quote:
Matthew 22:37-40
Quote:
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Loving God is our first command, our first priority, loving our neighbor is second.
And what does it mean to love God?
I'm still waiting for an answer to this?
rmcdra
Kuroko and the Lamb
rmcdra
Kuroko and the Lamb


Luke 14: 26-27
Quote:
If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.


I understand Jesus isn't commanding us to hate our neighbor, rather he is emphasizing the great difference between our devotion and love to him and the people around us. Jesus is directing us to make Him the priority in our life.
And what does that mean, to make Jesus a priority in one's life?

Quote:
Matthew 22:37-40
Quote:
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Loving God is our first command, our first priority, loving our neighbor is second.
And what does it mean to love God?
I'm still waiting for an answer to this?


Sorry, I guess I missed it.

John 14:15
Quote:
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 15:13
Quote:
Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.


Both statements came from Jesus. The greatest way in which we love God is if we're willing to lay down our lives for His name. And what falls down below that is obeying His commands, which can overflow into loving our neighbor. But see, loving our neighbor is the overflow, it isn't the point. Loving God is the point. I know you got me, God wants us to love our neighbor and I am not implying we shouldn't. I'm saying that we need to love God more first.

This is the problem with 'love our neighbor' pep talks that can see everywhere. If a Christian is struggling to love their neighbor this means they are struggling to love God. It would be impossible to love their neighbor more than they are, since they don't have God in their life.

1 John 4:7-8
Quote:
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.


1 John 4:19-20
Quote:
We love because he first loved us. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.


Commanding Christians to love their neighbor is a meaningless message because they don't know God to begin with, therefore they don't know what love is. Not only that,but it take the glory away from God and gives it to the individual. Someone cannot love their neighbor very much, because they are limited by their sinful, selfish nature, however with God, all things are possible, including obeying the command to love our neighbors.

I would even say the 'love your neighbor more' messages have become an excuse to love and conform ourselves to the world, which is a sin. It's become an excuse to love or allow wickedness, sin. And if anything, it nothing more than a form of idolatry because it pushes us to worship loving our neighbor more than worshiping our God, which is a sin. There was a reason Jesus said loving God was the first command and placed it on a elevation above our neighbor, because all love comes from God.
rmcdra's avatar

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Kuroko and the Lamb

John 14:15
Quote:
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 15:13
Quote:
Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.


Both statements came from Jesus. The greatest way in which we love God is if we're willing to lay down our lives for His name. And what falls down below that is obeying His commands, which can overflow into loving our neighbor. But see, loving our neighbor is the overflow, it isn't the point. Loving God is the point. I know you got me, God wants us to love our neighbor and I am not implying we shouldn't. I'm saying that we need to love God more first.
So loving God is being willing to lay down one's life in His name. And how does one lie down their life in His name?

Quote:
This is the problem with 'love our neighbor' pep talks that can see everywhere. If a Christian is struggling to love their neighbor this means they are struggling to love God. It would be impossible to love their neighbor more than they are, since they don't have God in their life.
Yes if one does not have love then they cannot share that love. I don't disagree with this.

Quote:
Commanding Christians to love their neighbor is a meaningless message because they don't know God to begin with, therefore they don't know what love is. Not only that,but it take the glory away from God and gives it to the individual. Someone cannot love their neighbor very much, because they are limited by their sinful, selfish nature, however with God, all things are possible, including obeying the command to love our neighbors.
Okay but doesn't explain how one comes to know God and to receive that love.

Quote:
I would even say the 'love your neighbor more' messages have become an excuse to love and conform ourselves to the world, which is a sin. It's become an excuse to love or allow wickedness, sin. And if anything, it nothing more than a form of idolatry because it pushes us to worship loving our neighbor more than worshiping our God, which is a sin. There was a reason Jesus said loving God was the first command and placed it on a elevation above our neighbor, because all love comes from God.
If one is conforming to the world then it isn't love. That's giving into peer pressure. Why don't you give some examples of the problems with "love your neighbor" crowd then? It's easy to speak in generalities but without specifics to go off of, how do I know this isn't just a caricature of this group's view point and that it accurately represents them.
rmcdra
So loving God is being willing to lay down one's life in His name. And how does one lie down their life in His name?


That's what martyrdom is. When someone tells you, 'hey renounce your faith in Jesus or we will kill you' and say you no and they killed you, then you just laid down your life for Jesus, or God, or whatever is happening in the context of the situation.

rmcdra
Okay but doesn't explain how one comes to know God and to receive that love.


I know, that wasn't what I was trying to explain. That's an entirely different subject. But one who doesn't know about God's love can not teach someone else about it, just as you said.

rmcdra
If one is conforming to the world then it isn't love. That's giving into peer pressure. Why don't you give some examples of the problems with "love your neighbor" crowd then? It's easy to speak in generalities but without specifics to go off of, how do I know this isn't just a caricature of this group's view point and that it accurately represents them.


I just told you the specific problems with the message in my last post. And I'm not pointing the fingers at any crowd or group, but the distorted message itself. I don't even think there is a specific crowd, this will come up from nearly all denominations of Christianity. You can believe whatever you want, but the Bible has been very clear, God is first.
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That's what martyrdom is. When someone tells you, 'hey renounce your faith in Jesus or we will kill you' and say you no and they killed you, then you just laid down your life for Jesus, or God, or whatever is happening in the context of the situation.
Okay.

Quote:

I know, that wasn't what I was trying to explain. That's an entirely different subject. But one who doesn't know about God's love can not teach someone else about it, just as you said.
Seems like we agree on this point.

Quote:

I just told you the specific problems with the message in my last post. And I'm not pointing the fingers at any crowd or group, but the distorted message itself. I don't even think there is a specific crowd, this will come up from nearly all denominations of Christianity. You can believe whatever you want, but the Bible has been very clear, God is first.
Most believe that they are putting God first. Many are willing to die and suffer persecution for it, even it comes from those that claim to be their brethren.

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