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If Jesus existed (which is not particularly likely), he certainly didn't claim to be God. The Trinity concept was added to the Bible centuries after he supposedly lived.

Was the Trinity added to the bible?
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar

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The Trinity concept was added to the Bible centuries after he supposedly lived.


That's not necessarily true. The earliest Christian I can think of who spoke of God in threeness was Valentinus the Gnostic. Theophilus of Antioch in To Autolycus also makes note of God as threeness, being God, the Word, and Wisdom.

Prior to these, there is discussion about whether or not there was a second power in heaven and some see this in the targums and in Philo's work on a second god, the Logos. Daniel Boyarin wrote about Jewish binitarianism. Trinitarianism did come about later, but there was already binitarianism.
Pseudo-Onkelos
Elephant_Man
The Trinity concept was added to the Bible centuries after he supposedly lived.


That's not necessarily true. The earliest Christian I can think of who spoke of God in threeness was Valentinus the Gnostic. Theophilus of Antioch in To Autolycus also makes note of God as threeness, being God, the Word, and Wisdom.

Prior to these, there is discussion about whether or not there was a second power in heaven and some see this in the targums and in Philo's work on a second god, the Logos. Daniel Boyarin wrote about Jewish binitarianism. Trinitarianism did come about later, but there was already binitarianism.

Perhaps I should have specified modern-day concept of the Trinity and canonical Bible.
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar

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Pseudo-Onkelos
Elephant_Man
The Trinity concept was added to the Bible centuries after he supposedly lived.


That's not necessarily true. The earliest Christian I can think of who spoke of God in threeness was Valentinus the Gnostic. Theophilus of Antioch in To Autolycus also makes note of God as threeness, being God, the Word, and Wisdom.

Prior to these, there is discussion about whether or not there was a second power in heaven and some see this in the targums and in Philo's work on a second god, the Logos. Daniel Boyarin wrote about Jewish binitarianism. Trinitarianism did come about later, but there was already binitarianism.

Perhaps I should have specified modern-day concept of the Trinity and canonical Bible.


That modern concept being?
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I'm not telling you what it "means" I'm telling you exactly what it says...
I'm not "interpreting" either. Again, I'm telling you what it says. As you can see I'm answering with scripture.
Sigh. J-just go this coversation is over...

There's a skill called, reading between the lines, it's really helpful when reading literature.
I don't need to go over this conversation.
I'm well aware of what the Scripture says, it's just the actual meaning that is conflicting among denominations.
Literature that is as prolific and revered as the Bible really is never meant to be read literally.

So your saying there isn't only one God


No, I'm saying there is One God.
And Jesus is not a part of it. He's just a human, just another child of God like the rest of us, he just demonstrated spiritual healing power better than anyone else.

But you said you can't take the bible literal

I'm not.
And suddenly....you changed genders.
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I'm not telling you what it "means" I'm telling you exactly what it says...
I'm not "interpreting" either. Again, I'm telling you what it says. As you can see I'm answering with scripture.
Sigh. J-just go this coversation is over...

There's a skill called, reading between the lines, it's really helpful when reading literature.
I don't need to go over this conversation.
I'm well aware of what the Scripture says, it's just the actual meaning that is conflicting among denominations.
Literature that is as prolific and revered as the Bible really is never meant to be read literally.

So your saying there isn't only one God


No, I'm saying there is One God.
And Jesus is not a part of it. He's just a human, just another child of God like the rest of us, he just demonstrated spiritual healing power better than anyone else.

But you said you can't take the bible literal

I'm not.
And suddenly....you changed genders.

....I don't get it.not what?
I was always a boy. Did I look like a girl? O- o
There is doctrine about the Trinity, but it appears Christ never said he was God, but was the son of God. Why on his cross would he talk to God in his final hours if HE WAS GOD. Who else he might be is an interesting question, in some little schools like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, and others believe he could have been the Archangel Michael who in lore orginally defeated Lucifer in the War in Heaven, Jesus did say he is "The Alpha and the Beta, Beginning and End".

Aside from that, did Jesus return as someone else after he died and came back? Some rather odd idea is that in one claim he was later recarinated as Apollonius of Tyana, a somewhat Messiahic figure of the 1st century as well who shares some similarities. This claim is rebuked by the idea he could have learned from Jesus and mostly from Jesus most likely living from 2 B.C. to 28/30 A.D. while Apollonius from 15 A.D. to 100 A.D. .

Even though doctrine does warn about it as saying in Matthew 24:5: "For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.", there are those who have claimed to be Jesus and for all we know other Messiahs could actually be him.
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I'm not.
And suddenly....you changed genders.

....I don't get it.not what?
I was always a boy. Did I look like a girl? O- o

I'm not taking the Bible literally. I read it as any other novel or scripture or poem.
Yep. Looked like a girl.
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There is doctrine about the Trinity, but it appears Christ never said he was God, but was the son of God. Why on his cross would he talk to God in his final hours if HE WAS GOD. Who else he might be is an interesting question, in some little schools like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, and others believe he could have been the Archangel Michael who in lore orginally defeated Lucifer in the War in Heaven, Jesus did say he is "The Alpha and the Beta, Beginning and End".

Aside from that, did Jesus return as someone else after he died and came back? Some rather odd idea is that in one claim he was later recarinated as Apollonius of Tyana, a somewhat Messiahic figure of the 1st century as well who shares some similarities. This claim is rebuked by the idea he could have learned from Jesus and mostly from Jesus most likely living from 2 B.C. to 28/30 A.D. while Apollonius from 15 A.D. to 100 A.D. .

Even though doctrine does warn about it as saying in Matthew 24:5: "For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.", there are those who have claimed to be Jesus and for all we know other Messiahs could actually be him.


Good point.
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Nope. He claimed to be the son of god, the son of man and one with god.
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I'm not.
And suddenly....you changed genders.

....I don't get it.not what?
I was always a boy. Did I look like a girl? O- o


I'm not taking the Bible literally. I read it as any other novel or scripture or poem.
Yep. Looked like a girl.
...you confuse me. Oh well.
Lol. I never noticed i did
GreenInkling's avatar

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Christien Chalfant
Is there any scripture in the Bible where Jesus outright or explicitly says that he is God? To worship Jesus as if he were God?


It depends on what you mean by explicitly. No, as far as I know there is no place in the canon where Jesus says, "I am God." He does, however, say "I and the Father are One." (I don't know about non-canonical scripture.)

Pseudo could probably give you the literal translations from the Greek and what have you, if he hasn't already.

Quote:
But then, if Jesus is God, isn't that the same as worshipping a man?


In my opinion, and I assume the opinions of many Christians, no. Jesus wasn't a man. He was a god-man. Christians claim that he is the only god-man there ever was or ever will be. Though other religions have god-men as well, I believe.
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GreenInkling
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Is there any scripture in the Bible where Jesus outright or explicitly says that he is God? To worship Jesus as if he were God?


It depends on what you mean by explicitly. No, as far as I know there is no place in the canon where Jesus says, "I am God." He does, however, say "I and the Father are One." (I don't know about non-canonical scripture.)

Pseudo could probably give you the literal translations from the Greek and what have you, if he hasn't already.

Quote:
But then, if Jesus is God, isn't that the same as worshipping a man?


In my opinion, and I assume the opinions of many Christians, no. Jesus wasn't a man. He was a god-man. Christians claim that he is the only god-man there ever was or ever will be. Though other religions have god-men as well, I believe.


God-Man? Well. That is basically a ridiculous idea for me. That's like a Demi-God in Greek Myths.
But then I still refuse to worship a "God-Man" or a Man, and will only worship God.

For me, I and the Father are One means something different than I am God and God is Me.
GreenInkling's avatar

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Is there any scripture in the Bible where Jesus outright or explicitly says that he is God? To worship Jesus as if he were God?


It depends on what you mean by explicitly. No, as far as I know there is no place in the canon where Jesus says, "I am God." He does, however, say "I and the Father are One." (I don't know about non-canonical scripture.)

Pseudo could probably give you the literal translations from the Greek and what have you, if he hasn't already.

Quote:
But then, if Jesus is God, isn't that the same as worshipping a man?


In my opinion, and I assume the opinions of many Christians, no. Jesus wasn't a man. He was a god-man. Christians claim that he is the only god-man there ever was or ever will be. Though other religions have god-men as well, I believe.


God-Man? Well. That is basically a ridiculous idea for me. That's like a Demi-God in Greek Myths.
But then I still refuse to worship a "God-Man" or a Man, and will only worship God.

For me, I and the Father are One means something different than I am God and God is Me.


It is in fact very like the demi-gods of Greek myth, almost eerily alike.

But I understand. To each his own, no?

I think I might have misled you, and I want to clarify one thing.

When I say God-man, I mean = 100% god + 100% man.
But instead of it making 200% impossible, it's Jesus.
It's a paradox.
But Christians, if you ask them, are unwavering in the belief that when they worship Jesus, they worship God.

So either, they're all idiots or intellectual liars who refuse to succumb to logic
or there are some things that are logical yet remain outside our realm of understanding,
that we have to take on faith.

That's what the decision to believe in the traditional Christian Trinity or not comes down to, I think.
GreenInkling's avatar

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GreenInkling
Christien Chalfant
Is there any scripture in the Bible where Jesus outright or explicitly says that he is God? To worship Jesus as if he were God?


It depends on what you mean by explicitly. No, as far as I know there is no place in the canon where Jesus says, "I am God." He does, however, say "I and the Father are One." (I don't know about non-canonical scripture.)

Pseudo could probably give you the literal translations from the Greek and what have you, if he hasn't already.

Quote:
But then, if Jesus is God, isn't that the same as worshipping a man?


In my opinion, and I assume the opinions of many Christians, no. Jesus wasn't a man. He was a god-man. Christians claim that he is the only god-man there ever was or ever will be. Though other religions have god-men as well, I believe.


God-Man? Well. That is basically a ridiculous idea for me. That's like a Demi-God in Greek Myths.
But then I still refuse to worship a "God-Man" or a Man, and will only worship God.

For me, I and the Father are One means something different than I am God and God is Me.


It is in fact very like the demi-gods of Greek myth, almost eerily alike.

But I understand. To each his own, no?

I think I might have misled you, and I want to clarify one thing.

When I say God-man, I mean = 100% god + 100% man.
But instead of it making 200% impossible, it's Jesus.
It's a paradox.
But Christians, if you ask them, are unwavering in the belief that when they worship Jesus, they worship God.

So either, they're all idiots or intellectual liars who refuse to succumb to logic
or there are some things that are logical yet remain outside our realm of understanding,
that we have to take on faith.

That's what the decision to believe in the traditional Christian Trinity or not comes down to, I think.

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