Did Jesus ever claim to be God?

[Masrur Fanalis]

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.

Again. You just said that God died. That God was "fully man."
That. Is false.
God is not human, God is not material.
God is spiritual, universal, all-encompassin, eternal.
You limit God to a man.
You say that you face palm? Well fine. But everything you have brought to the table has been saying over and over again that God is a man and that a man was God.
I do not believe in a God who is human. I believe in God as divine love, divine truth, and spiritual reality. God forgives, loves, cherishes.
As reflections of God, we too forgive, love, cherish. So anyone can forgive sins, anyone can love, we are granted that by God, by the universal strength of him.
As long as you say that Jesus is God. That a human man is God. Well, then I'd say that you are very limited in your belief.
God is infinite, not finite.

Sigh. I didn't say God is a man. I said God-the Son, "The word of God" came down to earth as a man. He is no longer a man, he wasn't a man from the start. Yes, God is limitless.

when Jesus agreed to become a man, He voluntarily set aside His Godly powers and limited Himself the the powers available to mankind. This is why He attributed His ability to perform miracles to the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:2 cool , was in daily prayer with the Father, claimed not to know certain things (Matt. 24:36), and promised us we could do even greater things than he had done (John 14:12).

There are at least 3 reasons why we know this is true. First, God can’t be tempted (James 1:13), but Jesus was tempted in every way and yet was without sin. (Hebr. 4:15) Second, according to the Law of Redemption He had to become a man to redeem what Adam had lost (Lev. 25:25) and save us, and third He had to become a man so He could be put to death. It’s impossible to kill God.

In your earlier posts, you claimed jesus was the "vehicle" and christ was the "driver". Correct me if I'm mistaken.How come Jesus never talked about christ, but only himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit?(I know he is the Christ but I'm just asking in your view)

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus is the son of God

Mark says it at the outset of his gospel (1:1).

The angel told Mary her child would be the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

John the Baptist said the same thing (John 1:34).

Nathanael said it (John 1:49).

Martha believed it (John 11:27).

The centurion said so (Matthew 27:54).

Jesus claimed that He said so (John 10:36).

Jesus clearly implies it in John 11:4

The demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; Mark 3:11).

The charge against Jesus was that He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 27:43; John 19:7), a claim He never denied, and virtually admitted (Luke 22:70).

The Gospel of John was written to convince the reader that Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31).

Why, you might ask, does Jesus not say so plainly. I think the answer is found in Matthew 16:15-17:
15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blesse Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Fathe in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

Jesus did not want Peter and His disciples to believe He was the Son of God just because He said so. He wanted God to bring them to this conclusion, based upon the overwhelming evidence of Scripture and our Lord’s life and teaching. Action speaks louder than words indeed.

Btw thanks for not quoting our whole conversation. I didn't feel like scrolling down for a long time xP

[Masrur Fanalis]

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?

He is speaking to the sons of God.

Last time, you said it was the divine council

There is no difference.

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

Angels

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

IVovacane

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?

He is speaking to the sons of God.

Last time, you said it was the divine council

There is no difference.

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

Angels

Nope, sons of God. Those aren't angels, although I'm sure you're led to believe they are such because you were taught that. In fact, angelic beings have particular names in the Bible. They're referred to as cherubim, seraphim, or the messenger of the Lord. The word "angel" is from the Greek word angelos, which simply means "messenger".

[Christien Chalfant]

IVovacane

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.

Again. You just said that God died. That God was "fully man."
That. Is false.
God is not human, God is not material.
God is spiritual, universal, all-encompassin, eternal.
You limit God to a man.
You say that you face palm? Well fine. But everything you have brought to the table has been saying over and over again that God is a man and that a man was God.
I do not believe in a God who is human. I believe in God as divine love, divine truth, and spiritual reality. God forgives, loves, cherishes.
As reflections of God, we too forgive, love, cherish. So anyone can forgive sins, anyone can love, we are granted that by God, by the universal strength of him.
As long as you say that Jesus is God. That a human man is God. Well, then I'd say that you are very limited in your belief.
God is infinite, not finite.

Sigh. I didn't say God is a man. I said God-the Son, "The word of God" came down to earth as a man. He is no longer a man, he wasn't a man from the start. Yes, God is limitless.

when Jesus agreed to become a man, He voluntarily set aside His Godly powers and limited Himself the the powers available to mankind. This is why He attributed His ability to perform miracles to the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:2 cool , was in daily prayer with the Father, claimed not to know certain things (Matt. 24:36), and promised us we could do even greater things than he had done (John 14:12).

There are at least 3 reasons why we know this is true. First, God can’t be tempted (James 1:13), but Jesus was tempted in every way and yet was without sin. (Hebr. 4:15) Second, according to the Law of Redemption He had to become a man to redeem what Adam had lost (Lev. 25:25) and save us, and third He had to become a man so He could be put to death. It’s impossible to kill God.

In your earlier posts, you claimed jesus was the "vehicle" and christ was the "driver". Correct me if I'm mistaken.How come Jesus never talked about christ, but only himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit?(I know he is the Christ but I'm just asking in your view)

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus is the son of God

Mark says it at the outset of his gospel (1:1).

The angel told Mary her child would be the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

John the Baptist said the same thing (John 1:34).

Nathanael said it (John 1:49).

Martha believed it (John 11:27).

The centurion said so (Matthew 27:54).

Jesus claimed that He said so (John 10:36).

Jesus clearly implies it in John 11:4

The demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; Mark 3:11).

The charge against Jesus was that He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 27:43; John 19:7), a claim He never denied, and virtually admitted (Luke 22:70).

The Gospel of John was written to convince the reader that Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31).

Why, you might ask, does Jesus not say so plainly. I think the answer is found in Matthew 16:15-17:
15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blesse Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Fathe in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

Jesus did not want Peter and His disciples to believe He was the Son of God just because He said so. He wanted God to bring them to this conclusion, based upon the overwhelming evidence of Scripture and our Lord’s life and teaching. Action speaks louder than words indeed.

Btw thanks for not quoting our whole conversation. I didn't feel like scrolling down for a long time xP

Collosians 3:16:

Quote:

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

Various Bible Texts That Mention Christ.
This is the problem with the Trinity.
If the Father is God and the Son is God, then the Father is the Son. The same with the Holy Spirit.
Just because Jesus was tempted doesn't mean he's with sin. Temptation is just the desire to do something. Besides, temptations would fall within the Ten Commandments. So it would be tempted to believe in another god, to commit adultery, to kill, to steal, to covet, etcetera. Which he never did because he was the purest human in history. But a human still.
Then there's this little diddy concerning Jesus and the Christ.

Quote:

“Then charged he his disciples that they
should tell no man that he was Jesus the
Christ.”

(Matthew 16:20)
Meaning, tell them I'm jesus, but don't falsely say I am the Christ.
Besides. The problem with the gospels is that they're all recollections of what happened. They're malleable in interpretation because of their anecdotal nature.

[Christien Chalfant]

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

Pseudo-Onkelos

IVovacane

If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?

He is speaking to the sons of God.

Last time, you said it was the divine council

There is no difference.

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

Angels

Nope, sons of God. Those aren't angels, although I'm sure you're led to believe they are such because you were taught that. In fact, angelic beings have particular names in the Bible. They're referred to as cherubim, seraphim, or the messenger of the Lord. The word "angel" is from the Greek word angelos, which simply means "messenger".

The "sons of God" are referred to as descendants of Seth. The children of the sons of God and human women are the Nephilim.

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

Christien Chalfant

The "sons of God" are referred to as descendants of Seth. The children of the sons of God and human women are the Nephilim.

It says no such thing in the Torah about the sons of God.

[Christien Chalfant]

Pseudo-Onkelos

Christien Chalfant

The "sons of God" are referred to as descendants of Seth. The children of the sons of God and human women are the Nephilim.

It says no such thing in the Torah about the sons of God.

Scofield Reference Notes and Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Dredle Dredle Dredle, I Made It Out of Clay

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

Christien Chalfant

Scofield Reference Notes and Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Dredle Dredle Dredle, I Made It Out of Clay

I don't think you read the link you provided. The "sons of God" are not descendants of Seth because it makes no indication of such. It is provided from a logical approach, but I can't seem to find that "sons of God" at any time means "descendants of Seth" when throughout the Tanakh you have the following.

"When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God." (Deut. 32:8 )

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the adversary also came among them." (Job 1:6)

"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the adversary also came among them to present himself before the Lord." (Job 2:1)

"when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7)

I guess Seth's descendants were present during the creation.

"Ascribe to the Lord, O sons of God, ascribe to the Lord glory and strength." (Psa. 29:1)

"I said, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you.'" (Psa. 82:6)

"For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the sons of God is like the Lord?" (Psa. 89:6)

Your link to that article seems to be concerned about the idea of fallen angels, but not even that is something I was thinking about or considering.

[Masrur Fanalis]

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.

Again. You just said that God died. That God was "fully man."
That. Is false.
God is not human, God is not material.
God is spiritual, universal, all-encompassin, eternal.
You limit God to a man.
You say that you face palm? Well fine. But everything you have brought to the table has been saying over and over again that God is a man and that a man was God.
I do not believe in a God who is human. I believe in God as divine love, divine truth, and spiritual reality. God forgives, loves, cherishes.
As reflections of God, we too forgive, love, cherish. So anyone can forgive sins, anyone can love, we are granted that by God, by the universal strength of him.
As long as you say that Jesus is God. That a human man is God. Well, then I'd say that you are very limited in your belief.
God is infinite, not finite.

Sigh. I didn't say God is a man. I said God-the Son, "The word of God" came down to earth as a man. He is no longer a man, he wasn't a man from the start. Yes, God is limitless.

when Jesus agreed to become a man, He voluntarily set aside His Godly powers and limited Himself the the powers available to mankind. This is why He attributed His ability to perform miracles to the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:2 cool , was in daily prayer with the Father, claimed not to know certain things (Matt. 24:36), and promised us we could do even greater things than he had done (John 14:12).

There are at least 3 reasons why we know this is true. First, God can’t be tempted (James 1:13), but Jesus was tempted in every way and yet was without sin. (Hebr. 4:15) Second, according to the Law of Redemption He had to become a man to redeem what Adam had lost (Lev. 25:25) and save us, and third He had to become a man so He could be put to death. It’s impossible to kill God.

In your earlier posts, you claimed jesus was the "vehicle" and christ was the "driver". Correct me if I'm mistaken.How come Jesus never talked about christ, but only himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit?(I know he is the Christ but I'm just asking in your view)

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus is the son of God

Mark says it at the outset of his gospel (1:1).

The angel told Mary her child would be the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

John the Baptist said the same thing (John 1:34).

Nathanael said it (John 1:49).

Martha believed it (John 11:27).

The centurion said so (Matthew 27:54).

Jesus claimed that He said so (John 10:36).

Jesus clearly implies it in John 11:4

The demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; Mark 3:11).

The charge against Jesus was that He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 27:43; John 19:7), a claim He never denied, and virtually admitted (Luke 22:70).

The Gospel of John was written to convince the reader that Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31).

Why, you might ask, does Jesus not say so plainly. I think the answer is found in Matthew 16:15-17:
15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blesse Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Fathe in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

Jesus did not want Peter and His disciples to believe He was the Son of God just because He said so. He wanted God to bring them to this conclusion, based upon the overwhelming evidence of Scripture and our Lord’s life and teaching. Action speaks louder than words indeed.

Btw thanks for not quoting our whole conversation. I didn't feel like scrolling down for a long time xP

Collosians 3:16:

Quote:

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

Various Bible Texts That Mention Christ.
This is the problem with the Trinity.
If the Father is God and the Son is God, then the Father is the Son. The same with the Holy Spirit.
Just because Jesus was tempted doesn't mean he's with sin. Temptation is just the desire to do something. Besides, temptations would fall within the Ten Commandments. So it would be tempted to believe in another god, to commit adultery, to kill, to steal, to covet, etcetera. Which he never did because he was the purest human in history. But a human still.
Then there's this little diddy concerning Jesus and the Christ.

Quote:

“Then charged he his disciples that they
should tell no man that he was Jesus the
Christ.”

(Matthew 16:20)
Meaning, tell them I'm jesus, but don't falsely say I am the Christ.
Besides. The problem with the gospels is that they're all recollections of what happened. They're malleable in interpretation because of their anecdotal nature.

I said that jesus spoke about. I already know there's verses about christ.
No. The father wouldn't be the son nor the Holy Spirit. God is God.

I didn't say he was with sin. I said he was without sin. :l

The purest human but just a human...?

Is that the words he said? No. Your taking it out of context. I don't see anywhere in a type of way jesus saying "don't falsely say I am the christ"

They are collections of people who were with jesus.
They all share the same message so it can't be by their own interpritation if it is 1.written by different people and 2.have the same message
Anyway, your rejecting what the Bible says.

Matthew 16:13-20....... 13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" 14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20 Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

16:20 TELL NO ONE. (same as... in Matthew 8:4 - tell no one) Publicity over such miracles might hinder Christ's mission and divert public attention from his message. Mark records that this is precisely what happened. In this man's exuberance over the miracle, he disobeyed;as a result, Christ had to move His ministry away from the city and into the desert regions (Mark 1:45). & (same as in Matthew 12:16 - warned them not to make Him known.) Here Christ seems concerned about the potential zealotry of those who would try to press Him into the conquering-hero mold that the rabbinical experts had made out of the messianic prophecy.

t he wanted to reveal his identity himself and not have it distorted by well-meaning but ill-informed people. It seems to me that Jesus didn't want the people to go around saying who he is because this puts him in a mold, a category, a title, that the people of his day had pre-defined. Jesus wants to redefine the meaning of Son of God. He wants to re-wire the circuits of what people think that it means to be Christ, the Messiah of the Jews. So until he can live it and show it, he refuses to let others spread it. He will let his life, the cross, and his resurrection define his identity. Only then will he send his disciples out to tell the entire world who he is!

Then Jesus helped the followers understand these Scriptures written. Jesus said to them, "It is written that the Christ would be killed and rise from death on the third day. You saw these things happen--you are witnesses. You must go and tell people that their sins can be forgiven. Tell them that they must change their hearts and be sorry for their sins. If they will do this, then God will forgive them. You must start from Jerusalem and tell people these things in my name. This Good News must be told to all people in the world. Listen! My Father has promised you something; I will send it to you. But you must stay in Jerusalem until you have received that power from heaven." — Luke 24:45-49

Jesus said he was the christ. Right there. Don't take it out of context or assume. Its right there.

The disciples then understood the scriptures. Another way they knew that jesus was the one, the christ.

Are you aware that your belief destroys the basis of being christian? :l

[Masrur Fanalis]

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.

Again. You just said that God died. That God was "fully man."
That. Is false.
God is not human, God is not material.
God is spiritual, universal, all-encompassin, eternal.
You limit God to a man.
You say that you face palm? Well fine. But everything you have brought to the table has been saying over and over again that God is a man and that a man was God.
I do not believe in a God who is human. I believe in God as divine love, divine truth, and spiritual reality. God forgives, loves, cherishes.
As reflections of God, we too forgive, love, cherish. So anyone can forgive sins, anyone can love, we are granted that by God, by the universal strength of him.
As long as you say that Jesus is God. That a human man is God. Well, then I'd say that you are very limited in your belief.
God is infinite, not finite.

Sigh. I didn't say God is a man. I said God-the Son, "The word of God" came down to earth as a man. He is no longer a man, he wasn't a man from the start. Yes, God is limitless.

when Jesus agreed to become a man, He voluntarily set aside His Godly powers and limited Himself the the powers available to mankind. This is why He attributed His ability to perform miracles to the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:2 cool , was in daily prayer with the Father, claimed not to know certain things (Matt. 24:36), and promised us we could do even greater things than he had done (John 14:12).

There are at least 3 reasons why we know this is true. First, God can’t be tempted (James 1:13), but Jesus was tempted in every way and yet was without sin. (Hebr. 4:15) Second, according to the Law of Redemption He had to become a man to redeem what Adam had lost (Lev. 25:25) and save us, and third He had to become a man so He could be put to death. It’s impossible to kill God.

In your earlier posts, you claimed jesus was the "vehicle" and christ was the "driver". Correct me if I'm mistaken.How come Jesus never talked about christ, but only himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit?(I know he is the Christ but I'm just asking in your view)

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus is the son of God

Mark says it at the outset of his gospel (1:1).

The angel told Mary her child would be the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

John the Baptist said the same thing (John 1:34).

Nathanael said it (John 1:49).

Martha believed it (John 11:27).

The centurion said so (Matthew 27:54).

Jesus claimed that He said so (John 10:36).

Jesus clearly implies it in John 11:4

The demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; Mark 3:11).

The charge against Jesus was that He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 27:43; John 19:7), a claim He never denied, and virtually admitted (Luke 22:70).

The Gospel of John was written to convince the reader that Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31).

Why, you might ask, does Jesus not say so plainly. I think the answer is found in Matthew 16:15-17:
15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blesse Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Fathe in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

Jesus did not want Peter and His disciples to believe He was the Son of God just because He said so. He wanted God to bring them to this conclusion, based upon the overwhelming evidence of Scripture and our Lord’s life and teaching. Action speaks louder than words indeed.

Btw thanks for not quoting our whole conversation. I didn't feel like scrolling down for a long time xP

Collosians 3:16:

Quote:

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

Various Bible Texts That Mention Christ.
This is the problem with the Trinity.
If the Father is God and the Son is God, then the Father is the Son. The same with the Holy Spirit.
Just because Jesus was tempted doesn't mean he's with sin. Temptation is just the desire to do something. Besides, temptations would fall within the Ten Commandments. So it would be tempted to believe in another god, to commit adultery, to kill, to steal, to covet, etcetera. Which he never did because he was the purest human in history. But a human still.
Then there's this little diddy concerning Jesus and the Christ.

Quote:

“Then charged he his disciples that they
should tell no man that he was Jesus the
Christ.”

(Matthew 16:20)
Meaning, tell them I'm jesus, but don't falsely say I am the Christ.
Besides. The problem with the gospels is that they're all recollections of what happened. They're malleable in interpretation because of their anecdotal nature.

Here's an illustration:

Say that if I was a spy on a secret mission and I told you not to tell anyone. Would it be false that I'm a spy?

[Christien Chalfant]

Pseudo-Onkelos

Christien Chalfant

Scofield Reference Notes and Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Dredle Dredle Dredle, I Made It Out of Clay

I don't think you read the link you provided. The "sons of God" are not descendants of Seth because it makes no indication of such. It is provided from a logical approach, but I can't seem to find that "sons of God" at any time means "descendants of Seth" when throughout the Tanakh you have the following.

"When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God." (Deut. 32:8 )

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the adversary also came among them." (Job 1:6)

"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the adversary also came among them to present himself before the Lord." (Job 2:1)

"when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7)

I guess Seth's descendants were present during the creation.

"Ascribe to the Lord, O sons of God, ascribe to the Lord glory and strength." (Psa. 29:1)

"I said, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you.'" (Psa. 82:6)

"For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the sons of God is like the Lord?" (Psa. 89:6)

Your link to that article seems to be concerned about the idea of fallen angels, but not even that is something I was thinking about or considering.

Then what would the sons of God be? If they're not descendants of Seth, monotheistic people compared to Cain's pagan descendants, and they're not fallen angels? Then what? Just regular old men?

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

Christien Chalfant

Then what would the sons of God be? If they're not descendants of Seth, monotheistic people compared to Cain's pagan descendants, and they're not fallen angels? Then what? Just regular old men?

They're gods. The reason no pastor or priest goes by this anymore is because of Judaism and Christianity. They're monotheistic religions, even though the Hebrews and ancient Israelites were not monotheists. They were henotheists and practiced monolatry. But, there are scholars who support that these were gods and that there was a divine council.

[Christien Chalfant]

IVovacane

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

Christien Chalfant

IVovacane

God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.

Again. You just said that God died. That God was "fully man."
That. Is false.
God is not human, God is not material.
God is spiritual, universal, all-encompassin, eternal.
You limit God to a man.
You say that you face palm? Well fine. But everything you have brought to the table has been saying over and over again that God is a man and that a man was God.
I do not believe in a God who is human. I believe in God as divine love, divine truth, and spiritual reality. God forgives, loves, cherishes.
As reflections of God, we too forgive, love, cherish. So anyone can forgive sins, anyone can love, we are granted that by God, by the universal strength of him.
As long as you say that Jesus is God. That a human man is God. Well, then I'd say that you are very limited in your belief.
God is infinite, not finite.

Sigh. I didn't say God is a man. I said God-the Son, "The word of God" came down to earth as a man. He is no longer a man, he wasn't a man from the start. Yes, God is limitless.

when Jesus agreed to become a man, He voluntarily set aside His Godly powers and limited Himself the the powers available to mankind. This is why He attributed His ability to perform miracles to the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:2 cool , was in daily prayer with the Father, claimed not to know certain things (Matt. 24:36), and promised us we could do even greater things than he had done (John 14:12).

There are at least 3 reasons why we know this is true. First, God can’t be tempted (James 1:13), but Jesus was tempted in every way and yet was without sin. (Hebr. 4:15) Second, according to the Law of Redemption He had to become a man to redeem what Adam had lost (Lev. 25:25) and save us, and third He had to become a man so He could be put to death. It’s impossible to kill God.

In your earlier posts, you claimed jesus was the "vehicle" and christ was the "driver". Correct me if I'm mistaken.How come Jesus never talked about christ, but only himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit?(I know he is the Christ but I'm just asking in your view)

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus is the son of God

Mark says it at the outset of his gospel (1:1).

The angel told Mary her child would be the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

John the Baptist said the same thing (John 1:34).

Nathanael said it (John 1:49).

Martha believed it (John 11:27).

The centurion said so (Matthew 27:54).

Jesus claimed that He said so (John 10:36).

Jesus clearly implies it in John 11:4

The demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; Mark 3:11).

The charge against Jesus was that He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 27:43; John 19:7), a claim He never denied, and virtually admitted (Luke 22:70).

The Gospel of John was written to convince the reader that Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31).

Why, you might ask, does Jesus not say so plainly. I think the answer is found in Matthew 16:15-17:
15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blesse Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Fathe in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

Jesus did not want Peter and His disciples to believe He was the Son of God just because He said so. He wanted God to bring them to this conclusion, based upon the overwhelming evidence of Scripture and our Lord’s life and teaching. Action speaks louder than words indeed.

Btw thanks for not quoting our whole conversation. I didn't feel like scrolling down for a long time xP

Collosians 3:16:

Quote:

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

Various Bible Texts That Mention Christ.
This is the problem with the Trinity.
If the Father is God and the Son is God, then the Father is the Son. The same with the Holy Spirit.
Just because Jesus was tempted doesn't mean he's with sin. Temptation is just the desire to do something. Besides, temptations would fall within the Ten Commandments. So it would be tempted to believe in another god, to commit adultery, to kill, to steal, to covet, etcetera. Which he never did because he was the purest human in history. But a human still.
Then there's this little diddy concerning Jesus and the Christ.

Quote:

“Then charged he his disciples that they
should tell no man that he was Jesus the
Christ.”

(Matthew 16:20)
Meaning, tell them I'm jesus, but don't falsely say I am the Christ.
Besides. The problem with the gospels is that they're all recollections of what happened. They're malleable in interpretation because of their anecdotal nature.

I said that jesus spoke about. I already know there's verses about christ.
No. The father wouldn't be the son nor the Holy Spirit. God is God.

I didn't say he was with sin. I said he was without sin. :l

The purest human but just a human...?

Is that the words he said? No. Your taking it out of context. I don't see anywhere in a type of way jesus saying "don't falsely say I am the christ"

They are collections of people who were with jesus.
They all share the same message so it can't be by their own interpritation if it is 1.written by different people and 2.have the same message
Anyway, your rejecting what the Bible says.

Matthew 16:13-20....... 13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" 14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20 Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

16:20 TELL NO ONE. (same as... in Matthew 8:4 - tell no one) Publicity over such miracles might hinder Christ's mission and divert public attention from his message. Mark records that this is precisely what happened. In this man's exuberance over the miracle, he disobeyed;as a result, Christ had to move His ministry away from the city and into the desert regions (Mark 1:45). & (same as in Matthew 12:16 - warned them not to make Him known.) Here Christ seems concerned about the potential zealotry of those who would try to press Him into the conquering-hero mold that the rabbinical experts had made out of the messianic prophecy.

t he wanted to reveal his identity himself and not have it distorted by well-meaning but ill-informed people. It seems to me that Jesus didn't want the people to go around saying who he is because this puts him in a mold, a category, a title, that the people of his day had pre-defined. Jesus wants to redefine the meaning of Son of God. He wants to re-wire the circuits of what people think that it means to be Christ, the Messiah of the Jews. So until he can live it and show it, he refuses to let others spread it. He will let his life, the cross, and his resurrection define his identity. Only then will he send his disciples out to tell the entire world who he is!

Then Jesus helped the followers understand these Scriptures written. Jesus said to them, "It is written that the Christ would be killed and rise from death on the third day. You saw these things happen--you are witnesses. You must go and tell people that their sins can be forgiven. Tell them that they must change their hearts and be sorry for their sins. If they will do this, then God will forgive them. You must start from Jerusalem and tell people these things in my name. This Good News must be told to all people in the world. Listen! My Father has promised you something; I will send it to you. But you must stay in Jerusalem until you have received that power from heaven." — Luke 24:45-49

Jesus said he was the christ. Right there. Don't take it out of context or assume. Its right there.

The disciples then understood the scriptures. Another way they knew that jesus was the one, the christ.

Are you aware that your belief destroys the basis of being christian? :l

I am aware that there is no mandatory belief to being a Christian. But nice try. I believe in God. I believe Jesus demonstrated the power of God, the Christ nature, but that he was not the Christ. I believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection, the crucifixion, the parting of the red sea, the ascension. But I do not believe that Jesus is God. I do not believe that God would manifest himself as a human. God is too universally powerful to limit to a human man.
The thing is that, the Bible is a book, with ideas in it. It is literature. Literature has all sorts of interpretations that can come from it.
I'm questioning the interpretations. But You are telling me what the interpretations are. Who are you to dictate what the Bible means? Who am I to dictate it? Everyone should have their own interpretations of the scriptures, because it will mean something different for everyone else.
The fact is also that the Bible is very old, translated from very old texts that may or may not have been tampered with by people trying to conform Christianity to what they wanted it to be.

[Christien Chalfant]

Pseudo-Onkelos

Christien Chalfant

Then what would the sons of God be? If they're not descendants of Seth, monotheistic people compared to Cain's pagan descendants, and they're not fallen angels? Then what? Just regular old men?

They're gods. The reason no pastor or priest goes by this anymore is because of Judaism and Christianity. They're monotheistic religions, even though the Hebrews and ancient Israelites were not monotheists. They were henotheists and practiced monolatry. But, there are scholars who support that these were gods and that there was a divine council.

The government of God? Which would then be......angels? confused

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

Christien Chalfant

Pseudo-Onkelos

Christien Chalfant

Then what would the sons of God be? If they're not descendants of Seth, monotheistic people compared to Cain's pagan descendants, and they're not fallen angels? Then what? Just regular old men?

They're gods. The reason no pastor or priest goes by this anymore is because of Judaism and Christianity. They're monotheistic religions, even though the Hebrews and ancient Israelites were not monotheists. They were henotheists and practiced monolatry. But, there are scholars who support that these were gods and that there was a divine council.

The government of God? Which would then be......angels? confused

No. They're gods. An angel is simply a messenger and they have their own specific names, such as cherubim and seraphim. As I said before, "angel" is from the Greek word angelos, which means "messenger". Psalm 82 is a good example of the divine council.