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Masrur Fanalis's avatar

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If we were "one" with God, we wouldn't be able to sin. Yet we do. And God cannot sin.
Of course Jesus gave God-The Father credit because he was a man at that time. God-The father was above him. If you consider the Bible historical, why won't you claim Revelation to be? Isn't that basically doubting it will happen? If you doubt anything in the Bible, why not doubt the whole thing?

Other prophecies came true in the bible, why won't that?


Because the rest of the Bible is a documentation of events, an inclusion of prophecies that came true. There could've been many other said prophecies that were never included because they didn't happen.
Eh. I don't believe in sin. Evil is nonexistent for me. I believe in it's nothingness. That fear tries to control the human, but if the human stays in the proper spiritual sense then the human is fine.
But I believe in three separate realms. The Spiritual, The Human, and the Material. The human is not bad nor is it good. It just depends whether the human lowers or raises themself based upon their fear or their spiritual awareness.
Because Revelation is a prophecy with no conclusion to it. The others had conclusion, correct?

If only there wasn't any sin. Wait are you christian or not? I'm confused. That's a whole bucket full of contradictory and irony if you are a christian. So you wouldn't consider the guy who killed the kids in connecticut "evil"? You wouldn't consider Hitler "bad"?
Are you kidding me? Revelation is the conclusion. Have you ever actually read it? :l
Just go on google and you will see the same conclusion all over.


Revelations in short: Visions of St. John the Divine of what he see's to come, prediction of future events, which may or may not refer to actual people or events, which is an allegory of the struggle between good and evil.
I am a Christian. But not a mainstream denomination. This is a problem I have with people, a lot of them think that when you say Christian, that there's a set of things that we all believe. Ugh not true.
Adam Lanza the human was not evil. Hitler the human was not bad. It was their actions that were bad. Forgiveness and love, is what I believe in, is what conquers fear and even the belief in sin.

You don't have to be denominational. I'm non demominational right now. What are you talking about? Jesus came to liberate people from sin. Also, firstly you have to accept that you are a sinner in order to accept jesus and what he did for you. If there's no sin. Why did jesus die?
That's like having a salad without any lettuce and vegetables (lol I'm not including egg salad, macaroni salad ect ect) it defeats the whole purpose of its meaning.

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” John 8:24 ESV

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 ESV

Is what you believe more important than what the bible says?


The Bible is open for interpretation.
I don't have to accept I'm a sinner because I was not born or around at the time that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of man.
I believe that Jesus was demonstrating the power of Christ. The resurrection was a demonstration.
I don't have to accept Jesus because Jesus is a human. I accept the Christ, I accept God, I accept the Holy Ghost.

....your ignoring the Bible. That's the thing I don't like about denominations and christians these days. They interpret things. And not actually see what the Bible says. Example: denying the existence of Hell. Your logic is lacking. You claim because you didn't live the time of jesus life, you are not a sinner. That's only taking what he did for you, me, and every other person who accept christ as Lord and Saviour in vain.I'd have no problem confessing my sins right now.why shouldn't you, friend?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 john 1:9 ESV

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah... Psalm 32:5 ESV

You know christ means messiah right? And jesus, himself did claim to be the messiah

John 4:25-26:

The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” (26) Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”
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If only there wasn't any sin. Wait are you christian or not? I'm confused. That's a whole bucket full of contradictory and irony if you are a christian. So you wouldn't consider the guy who killed the kids in connecticut "evil"? You wouldn't consider Hitler "bad"?
Are you kidding me? Revelation is the conclusion. Have you ever actually read it? :l
Just go on google and you will see the same conclusion all over.


Revelations in short: Visions of St. John the Divine of what he see's to come, prediction of future events, which may or may not refer to actual people or events, which is an allegory of the struggle between good and evil.
I am a Christian. But not a mainstream denomination. This is a problem I have with people, a lot of them think that when you say Christian, that there's a set of things that we all believe. Ugh not true.
Adam Lanza the human was not evil. Hitler the human was not bad. It was their actions that were bad. Forgiveness and love, is what I believe in, is what conquers fear and even the belief in sin.

You don't have to be denominational. I'm non demominational right now. What are you talking about? Jesus came to liberate people from sin. Also, firstly you have to accept that you are a sinner in order to accept jesus and what he did for you. If there's no sin. Why did jesus die?
That's like having a salad without any lettuce and vegetables (lol I'm not including egg salad, macaroni salad ect ect) it defeats the whole purpose of its meaning.

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” John 8:24 ESV

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 ESV

Is what you believe more important than what the bible says?


The Bible is open for interpretation.
I don't have to accept I'm a sinner because I was not born or around at the time that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of man.
I believe that Jesus was demonstrating the power of Christ. The resurrection was a demonstration.
I don't have to accept Jesus because Jesus is a human. I accept the Christ, I accept God, I accept the Holy Ghost.

....your ignoring the Bible. That's the thing I don't like about denominations and christians these days. They interpret things. And not actually see what the Bible says. Example: denying the existence of Hell. Your logic is lacking. You claim because you didn't live the time of jesus life, you are not a sinner. That's only taking what he did for you, me, and every other person who accept christ as Lord and Saviour in vain.I'd have no problem confessing my sins right now.why shouldn't you, friend?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 john 1:9 ESV

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah... Psalm 32:5 ESV

You know christ means messiah right? And jesus, himself did claim to be the messiah

John 4:25-26:

The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” (26) Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”


Who's the say that the Bible is only able to be interpreted literally? There is such a skill called reading between the lines.
I claim that because I was not alive the same time as Jesus, that his sacrifice does not reflect on my personal sins. Which is my issue, how could Jesus sacrificing himself a thousand years ago possibly forgive a sin for today?
For the last time. Why is Jesus, the Christ? Is Jesus a deity? Is he a human who is part god? If that's true then there would God and then there would be Jesus, separate beings who are both God. If the commandment explicitly says "there is no God before me" to mean that there is only one God, then how could this be?
How was a human, God?
I don't have to go around confessing my sins because I don't go around sinning. I go around forgiving those that hurt me in whatever way, I choose to love those around me, I choose to help people instead of ignore them if the voluntary action is appropriate. I don't go around spiting people and sinning, I choose to not let fear, personal attachment, animal magnetism, dictate my life. I affirm the power of God, the omnipresent, omniscient, God, and listen to what God tells me to do.
How does confessing your sins do anything? Just because you confess does not mean you are reformed, if I say "oh I pushed someone down the steps," that doesn't negate the malice I had towards said person, nor doesn't show any reform in the my personal character from doing such a nasty action.
Christ: The divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error.
-Note, it says manifestation which comes to the flesh. That doesn't singularly apply to Jesus. It applies to all of us. Flesh refers to the Human and humans, the manifestation of God's power in the Human existence is Christ.
Jesus: The highest human corporeal concept of the divine idea, rebuking and destroying error and bringing to light man’s immortality.
-As it says, the highest human, not God incarnate, not God bound to the flesh.
Messiah: The expected king or deliverer of the Jews.
-The expected king of such. While I agree that Jesus was the first coming, that does not mean that the Messiah means God Incarnate. The Messiah would mean the person that freed the Jews. But didn't Jesus say that Christians would be the Messiah, that Christianity would free the Jews? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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You know christ means messiah right?

Christ means anointed.
Jesus never said he was God
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Jesus never said he was God


Yes, I know. I'm trying to figure out why people seem to think he is God when Jesus never "said" he was.
Christien Chalfant
Khalid Ibn Walid
Jesus never said he was God


Yes, I know. I'm trying to figure out why people seem to think he is God when Jesus never "said" he was.



This video should explain it


Christien Chalfant 's avatar

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Jesus never said he was God


Yes, I know. I'm trying to figure out why people seem to think he is God when Jesus never "said" he was.



This video should explain it




While I agree that Constantine could have perverted Christianity to his liking, I have yet to find sufficient facts or evidence for it.
JediDillon's avatar

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Christien Chalfant
Khalid Ibn Walid
Christien Chalfant
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Jesus never said he was God


Yes, I know. I'm trying to figure out why people seem to think he is God when Jesus never "said" he was.



This video should explain it




While I agree that Constantine could have perverted Christianity to his liking, I have yet to find sufficient facts or evidence for it.


True this is something that can't really be proven. Constatine though was a great allie of Christianity becasue without him it would never have spread as far as it has today. If anything though I would credit the early Catholic church for perverting the faith of Christianity by introducing teachings that were not even in the Bible, and killing thousands of innocent people. They also basicly created their own "God" by putting the Pope in power.
Masrur Fanalis's avatar

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Christien Chalfant
IVovacane
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If only there wasn't any sin. Wait are you christian or not? I'm confused. That's a whole bucket full of contradictory and irony if you are a christian. So you wouldn't consider the guy who killed the kids in connecticut "evil"? You wouldn't consider Hitler "bad"?
Are you kidding me? Revelation is the conclusion. Have you ever actually read it? :l
Just go on google and you will see the same conclusion all over.


Revelations in short: Visions of St. John the Divine of what he see's to come, prediction of future events, which may or may not refer to actual people or events, which is an allegory of the struggle between good and evil.
I am a Christian. But not a mainstream denomination. This is a problem I have with people, a lot of them think that when you say Christian, that there's a set of things that we all believe. Ugh not true.
Adam Lanza the human was not evil. Hitler the human was not bad. It was their actions that were bad. Forgiveness and love, is what I believe in, is what conquers fear and even the belief in sin.

You don't have to be denominational. I'm non demominational right now. What are you talking about? Jesus came to liberate people from sin. Also, firstly you have to accept that you are a sinner in order to accept jesus and what he did for you. If there's no sin. Why did jesus die?
That's like having a salad without any lettuce and vegetables (lol I'm not including egg salad, macaroni salad ect ect) it defeats the whole purpose of its meaning.

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” John 8:24 ESV

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 ESV

Is what you believe more important than what the bible says?


The Bible is open for interpretation.
I don't have to accept I'm a sinner because I was not born or around at the time that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of man.
I believe that Jesus was demonstrating the power of Christ. The resurrection was a demonstration.
I don't have to accept Jesus because Jesus is a human. I accept the Christ, I accept God, I accept the Holy Ghost.

....your ignoring the Bible. That's the thing I don't like about denominations and christians these days. They interpret things. And not actually see what the Bible says. Example: denying the existence of Hell. Your logic is lacking. You claim because you didn't live the time of jesus life, you are not a sinner. That's only taking what he did for you, me, and every other person who accept christ as Lord and Saviour in vain.I'd have no problem confessing my sins right now.why shouldn't you, friend?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 john 1:9 ESV

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah... Psalm 32:5 ESV

You know christ means messiah right? And jesus, himself did claim to be the messiah

John 4:25-26:

The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” (26) Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”


Who's the say that the Bible is only able to be interpreted literally? There is such a skill called reading between the lines.
I claim that because I was not alive the same time as Jesus, that his sacrifice does not reflect on my personal sins. Which is my issue, how could Jesus sacrificing himself a thousand years ago possibly forgive a sin for today?
For the last time. Why is Jesus, the Christ? Is Jesus a deity? Is he a human who is part god? If that's true then there would God and then there would be Jesus, separate beings who are both God. If the commandment explicitly says "there is no God before me" to mean that there is only one God, then how could this be?
How was a human, God?
I don't have to go around confessing my sins because I don't go around sinning. I go around forgiving those that hurt me in whatever way, I choose to love those around me, I choose to help people instead of ignore them if the voluntary action is appropriate. I don't go around spiting people and sinning, I choose to not let fear, personal attachment, animal magnetism, dictate my life. I affirm the power of God, the omnipresent, omniscient, God, and listen to what God tells me to do.
How does confessing your sins do anything? Just because you confess does not mean you are reformed, if I say "oh I pushed someone down the steps," that doesn't negate the malice I had towards said person, nor doesn't show any reform in the my personal character from doing such a nasty action.
Christ: The divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error.
-Note, it says manifestation which comes to the flesh. That doesn't singularly apply to Jesus. It applies to all of us. Flesh refers to the Human and humans, the manifestation of God's power in the Human existence is Christ.
Jesus: The highest human corporeal concept of the divine idea, rebuking and destroying error and bringing to light man’s immortality.
-As it says, the highest human, not God incarnate, not God bound to the flesh.
Messiah: The expected king or deliverer of the Jews.
-The expected king of such. While I agree that Jesus was the first coming, that does not mean that the Messiah means God Incarnate. The Messiah would mean the person that freed the Jews. But didn't Jesus say that Christians would be the Messiah, that Christianity would free the Jews? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If his sacrafice "doesnt" reflect on your personal sins, then why are you christian? what is your purpose of being christian?

Matthew 1:20-21
20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”

John 3:16
New International Version (©1984)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


mes·si·ah

[ mə s ə ]


1.savior or liberator: somebody regarded as or claiming to be a savior or liberator of a country, people, or the world

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:2 cool . Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:3 cool . He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read/r00048.html

Also, one question. Jesus was being worshipped,why didnt he stop them from worshipping him?

Did he say that he wasn't God?
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Christien Chalfant
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You don't have to be denominational. I'm non demominational right now. What are you talking about? Jesus came to liberate people from sin. Also, firstly you have to accept that you are a sinner in order to accept jesus and what he did for you. If there's no sin. Why did jesus die?
That's like having a salad without any lettuce and vegetables (lol I'm not including egg salad, macaroni salad ect ect) it defeats the whole purpose of its meaning.

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” John 8:24 ESV

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 ESV

Is what you believe more important than what the bible says?


The Bible is open for interpretation.
I don't have to accept I'm a sinner because I was not born or around at the time that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of man.
I believe that Jesus was demonstrating the power of Christ. The resurrection was a demonstration.
I don't have to accept Jesus because Jesus is a human. I accept the Christ, I accept God, I accept the Holy Ghost.

....your ignoring the Bible. That's the thing I don't like about denominations and christians these days. They interpret things. And not actually see what the Bible says. Example: denying the existence of Hell. Your logic is lacking. You claim because you didn't live the time of jesus life, you are not a sinner. That's only taking what he did for you, me, and every other person who accept christ as Lord and Saviour in vain.I'd have no problem confessing my sins right now.why shouldn't you, friend?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 john 1:9 ESV

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah... Psalm 32:5 ESV

You know christ means messiah right? And jesus, himself did claim to be the messiah

John 4:25-26:

The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” (26) Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”


Who's the say that the Bible is only able to be interpreted literally? There is such a skill called reading between the lines.
I claim that because I was not alive the same time as Jesus, that his sacrifice does not reflect on my personal sins. Which is my issue, how could Jesus sacrificing himself a thousand years ago possibly forgive a sin for today?
For the last time. Why is Jesus, the Christ? Is Jesus a deity? Is he a human who is part god? If that's true then there would God and then there would be Jesus, separate beings who are both God. If the commandment explicitly says "there is no God before me" to mean that there is only one God, then how could this be?
How was a human, God?
I don't have to go around confessing my sins because I don't go around sinning. I go around forgiving those that hurt me in whatever way, I choose to love those around me, I choose to help people instead of ignore them if the voluntary action is appropriate. I don't go around spiting people and sinning, I choose to not let fear, personal attachment, animal magnetism, dictate my life. I affirm the power of God, the omnipresent, omniscient, God, and listen to what God tells me to do.
How does confessing your sins do anything? Just because you confess does not mean you are reformed, if I say "oh I pushed someone down the steps," that doesn't negate the malice I had towards said person, nor doesn't show any reform in the my personal character from doing such a nasty action.
Christ: The divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error.
-Note, it says manifestation which comes to the flesh. That doesn't singularly apply to Jesus. It applies to all of us. Flesh refers to the Human and humans, the manifestation of God's power in the Human existence is Christ.
Jesus: The highest human corporeal concept of the divine idea, rebuking and destroying error and bringing to light man’s immortality.
-As it says, the highest human, not God incarnate, not God bound to the flesh.
Messiah: The expected king or deliverer of the Jews.
-The expected king of such. While I agree that Jesus was the first coming, that does not mean that the Messiah means God Incarnate. The Messiah would mean the person that freed the Jews. But didn't Jesus say that Christians would be the Messiah, that Christianity would free the Jews? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If his sacrafice "doesnt" reflect on your personal sins, then why are you christian? what is your purpose of being christian?

Is there a guideline that says to be Christian you have to accept that everyone is a "sinner," that you yourself personally are a sinner? Or isn't that just something that's a apart of mainstream Christianity?
My purpose of being Christian is my belief in God, in Christ, in the word of God. I have explained my views many a time. God is god, eternal and all powerful, forgiving and loving. Christ is the divine nature of God, the spiritual understanding. The word of God is the message and deliverance.

IVovacane
Matthew 1:20-21
20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”

So Mary was impregnated by the deliverance of God upon her, I agree with that. At the time "saving people from their sins" could mean forgiving them, loving them, teaching them of God's real nature, it does not have to mean that he himself was God incarnate.

IVovacane
John 3:16
New International Version (©1984)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Considering that the new international version translates directly from the scripts, and some of the scripts are Greek, it is possible that Constantine and the Greeks manipulated the scripts into saying what they wanted.
Even so, God giving his "one and only Son" contradicts the idea that all humans are children of God. Furthermore, who is to say that Jesus is the Son? Shouldn't Christ be the Son even if the Trinity is real? It seems so trivial and ridiculous that God would deify himself in the flesh. That just seems so sacrilegious.
Even in the sentence, "him" could apply to God and not to the Son. It would be more fitting to receive eternal life by believing in God instead of a human.

IVovacane
mes·si·ah

[ mə s ə ]


1.savior or liberator: somebody regarded as or claiming to be a savior or liberator of a country, people, or the world

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

I and the Father are one can mean that Jesus was a reflection of God, pure and spiritually whole, just as any other Child of God would be. I believe that all children are one with God, it's a universal privilege.

IVovacane
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

The Gospel of John, interpreted this way, would mean that the Word became Flesh. Meaning the teachings of God came to the flesh and were taught to the flesh so that they may be known.
Do they clearly indicate that Jesus was God? Because if they did, then there wouldn't be any discrepancies about it would there?
Again "he" doesn't have to pertain to God or the life of Jesus in the context. Besides, in the old testament, blood identified with the juice of grapes, or wine. Jesus took advantage of that concept when he gave them wine and said to drink his blood. Blood in the old testament meant that there had to some sort of shed of blood or there would be no remission. So then, his blood, could just mean his wine.

IVovacane
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:2 cool . Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

The Father refers to Jesus as "O God?" Now that's just plain wrong. Anyways, the government of God is heaven. Where God reigns supreme. This back and forth of the Father being God, but then oh wait so is Jesus. I stand by my statement. Christ is the Son, not Jesus. So even with your text there, Christ the healing power would be on the throne, not a human man.
IVovacane
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:3 cool . He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

Worship in biblical connotations is related to Obedience. So with Matthew 2:11, the three wise men falling in worship to him, could mean that they fell in obedience to the teachings that Jesus was going to teach of God.
14:33 is "truly you are the Son of God," still. the Son does not equal God, for there are many sons of God.
Luke 24:52 could mean they obeyed him and returned to Israel, which would be more fitting than worshipped him and returned to Israel. The same with the text from John.

IVovacane
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read/r00048.html

Also, one question. Jesus was being worshipped,why didnt he stop them from worshipping him?

Did he say that he wasn't God?

Do you realize what you just said? "The most important reason that Jesus has to be GOd is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world." You just said that God died! I thought God was eternal, which means he cannot die!
And I John 2:2 actually says
Quote:
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
But good job trying to paraphrase your way into whatever.
2 Corinthians 5:21
Quote:
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
God made sin? Well that's contradictory. I don't even believe that for a minute. A perfect God would not create fear, doubt, evil, or sin. A perfect God would not incarnate himself in the flesh and kill himself while proclaiming that he is the son and the father at the same time.
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Christien Chalfant
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Christien Chalfant
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Christien Chalfant


The Bible is open for interpretation.
I don't have to accept I'm a sinner because I was not born or around at the time that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of man.
I believe that Jesus was demonstrating the power of Christ. The resurrection was a demonstration.
I don't have to accept Jesus because Jesus is a human. I accept the Christ, I accept God, I accept the Holy Ghost.

....your ignoring the Bible. That's the thing I don't like about denominations and christians these days. They interpret things. And not actually see what the Bible says. Example: denying the existence of Hell. Your logic is lacking. You claim because you didn't live the time of jesus life, you are not a sinner. That's only taking what he did for you, me, and every other person who accept christ as Lord and Saviour in vain.I'd have no problem confessing my sins right now.why shouldn't you, friend?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 john 1:9 ESV

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah... Psalm 32:5 ESV

You know christ means messiah right? And jesus, himself did claim to be the messiah

John 4:25-26:

The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” (26) Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”


Who's the say that the Bible is only able to be interpreted literally? There is such a skill called reading between the lines.
I claim that because I was not alive the same time as Jesus, that his sacrifice does not reflect on my personal sins. Which is my issue, how could Jesus sacrificing himself a thousand years ago possibly forgive a sin for today?
For the last time. Why is Jesus, the Christ? Is Jesus a deity? Is he a human who is part god? If that's true then there would God and then there would be Jesus, separate beings who are both God. If the commandment explicitly says "there is no God before me" to mean that there is only one God, then how could this be?
How was a human, God?
I don't have to go around confessing my sins because I don't go around sinning. I go around forgiving those that hurt me in whatever way, I choose to love those around me, I choose to help people instead of ignore them if the voluntary action is appropriate. I don't go around spiting people and sinning, I choose to not let fear, personal attachment, animal magnetism, dictate my life. I affirm the power of God, the omnipresent, omniscient, God, and listen to what God tells me to do.
How does confessing your sins do anything? Just because you confess does not mean you are reformed, if I say "oh I pushed someone down the steps," that doesn't negate the malice I had towards said person, nor doesn't show any reform in the my personal character from doing such a nasty action.
Christ: The divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error.
-Note, it says manifestation which comes to the flesh. That doesn't singularly apply to Jesus. It applies to all of us. Flesh refers to the Human and humans, the manifestation of God's power in the Human existence is Christ.
Jesus: The highest human corporeal concept of the divine idea, rebuking and destroying error and bringing to light man’s immortality.
-As it says, the highest human, not God incarnate, not God bound to the flesh.
Messiah: The expected king or deliverer of the Jews.
-The expected king of such. While I agree that Jesus was the first coming, that does not mean that the Messiah means God Incarnate. The Messiah would mean the person that freed the Jews. But didn't Jesus say that Christians would be the Messiah, that Christianity would free the Jews? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If his sacrafice "doesnt" reflect on your personal sins, then why are you christian? what is your purpose of being christian?

Is there a guideline that says to be Christian you have to accept that everyone is a "sinner," that you yourself personally are a sinner? Or isn't that just something that's a apart of mainstream Christianity?
My purpose of being Christian is my belief in God, in Christ, in the word of God. I have explained my views many a time. God is god, eternal and all powerful, forgiving and loving. Christ is the divine nature of God, the spiritual understanding. The word of God is the message and deliverance.

IVovacane
Matthew 1:20-21
20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”

So Mary was impregnated by the deliverance of God upon her, I agree with that. At the time "saving people from their sins" could mean forgiving them, loving them, teaching them of God's real nature, it does not have to mean that he himself was God incarnate.

IVovacane
John 3:16
New International Version (©1984)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Considering that the new international version translates directly from the scripts, and some of the scripts are Greek, it is possible that Constantine and the Greeks manipulated the scripts into saying what they wanted.
Even so, God giving his "one and only Son" contradicts the idea that all humans are children of God. Furthermore, who is to say that Jesus is the Son? Shouldn't Christ be the Son even if the Trinity is real? It seems so trivial and ridiculous that God would deify himself in the flesh. That just seems so sacrilegious.
Even in the sentence, "him" could apply to God and not to the Son. It would be more fitting to receive eternal life by believing in God instead of a human.

IVovacane
mes·si·ah

[ mə s ə ]


1.savior or liberator: somebody regarded as or claiming to be a savior or liberator of a country, people, or the world

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

I and the Father are one can mean that Jesus was a reflection of God, pure and spiritually whole, just as any other Child of God would be. I believe that all children are one with God, it's a universal privilege.

IVovacane
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

The Gospel of John, interpreted this way, would mean that the Word became Flesh. Meaning the teachings of God came to the flesh and were taught to the flesh so that they may be known.
Do they clearly indicate that Jesus was God? Because if they did, then there wouldn't be any discrepancies about it would there?
Again "he" doesn't have to pertain to God or the life of Jesus in the context. Besides, in the old testament, blood identified with the juice of grapes, or wine. Jesus took advantage of that concept when he gave them wine and said to drink his blood. Blood in the old testament meant that there had to some sort of shed of blood or there would be no remission. So then, his blood, could just mean his wine.

IVovacane
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:2 cool . Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

The Father refers to Jesus as "O God?" Now that's just plain wrong. Anyways, the government of God is heaven. Where God reigns supreme. This back and forth of the Father being God, but then oh wait so is Jesus. I stand by my statement. Christ is the Son, not Jesus. So even with your text there, Christ the healing power would be on the throne, not a human man.
IVovacane
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:3 cool . He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

Worship in biblical connotations is related to Obedience. So with Matthew 2:11, the three wise men falling in worship to him, could mean that they fell in obedience to the teachings that Jesus was going to teach of God.
14:33 is "truly you are the Son of God," still. the Son does not equal God, for there are many sons of God.
Luke 24:52 could mean they obeyed him and returned to Israel, which would be more fitting than worshipped him and returned to Israel. The same with the text from John.

IVovacane
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read/r00048.html

Also, one question. Jesus was being worshipped,why didnt he stop them from worshipping him?

Did he say that he wasn't God?

Do you realize what you just said? "The most important reason that Jesus has to be GOd is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world." You just said that God died! I thought God was eternal, which means he cannot die!
And I John 2:2 actually says
Quote:
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
But good job trying to paraphrase your way into whatever.
2 Corinthians 5:21
Quote:
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
God made sin? Well that's contradictory. I don't even believe that for a minute. A perfect God would not create fear, doubt, evil, or sin. A perfect God would not incarnate himself in the flesh and kill himself while proclaiming that he is the son and the father at the same time.

Uh..yeah. thats the reason he came to the world. Read the Gospels.
So you claim yourself to be christian because you believe in God... sigh

Okay I'll just follow your lead. And who can forgive sins other than God?

Like you said. Theres no evidence for it. I can use all the other translations and they all teach the same message.

Thats how much God loves us...
Im sorry to say, but that is the biggest lie you can say in the christian faith. "If you believe in God you will go to Heaven."

"...No one gets to the Father except through me."
-Jesus

Then how come Jesus is the only sinless person who is a "child of God". No where in the Bible is someone sinless other than him. And who is without sin? God, right?



*face palm*

Well yeah. Jesus is no longer a man. He is glorified again with the Father and the Holy Spirit like he was before he was sent to Earth.
I know he isn't the Father. HE IS THE SON.

◄ John 17:5 ►
New International Version (©1984)
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Genesis 1:26-27
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?


No it doesn't. Basically your saying God commanded us to worship our parents.You keep saying could. Your ignoring the text and believe what you want to believe....

God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.

Heres a little video demonstrating how much God loves us. (btw im not trying to disprove islam or anything. He just shows a good demonstration of the gospel
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IVovacane


God-The Son died on the cross because he was fully man.

Im not paraphrasing anything.

It means that God layed our sins on Christ on the cross because he knew no sin. And now our sin is dead in Christ. Out of all the verses I show you, you actually take this one without revealing the meaning of it. *face palm* Im done. Its been nice coversating with you.


Again. You just said that God died. That God was "fully man."
That. Is false.
God is not human, God is not material.
God is spiritual, universal, all-encompassin, eternal.
You limit God to a man.
You say that you face palm? Well fine. But everything you have brought to the table has been saying over and over again that God is a man and that a man was God.
I do not believe in a God who is human. I believe in God as divine love, divine truth, and spiritual reality. God forgives, loves, cherishes.
As reflections of God, we too forgive, love, cherish. So anyone can forgive sins, anyone can love, we are granted that by God, by the universal strength of him.
As long as you say that Jesus is God. That a human man is God. Well, then I'd say that you are very limited in your belief.
God is infinite, not finite.
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IVovacane
If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?


He is speaking to the sons of God.
Masrur Fanalis's avatar

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Pseudo-Onkelos
IVovacane
If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?


He is speaking to the sons of God.

Last time, you said it was the divine council
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Pseudo-Onkelos
IVovacane
If God is not a triune, who is he talking to?


He is speaking to the sons of God.

Last time, you said it was the divine council


There is no difference.

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

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