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Aged Lunatic

Avgvsto
GunsmithKitten
Avgvsto
I disagree with everyone on everything.


So in spite of all that moral finger wagging and talk, you really stand for nothing at all.

What a piece of work...
it's so cute when you stalk me


It's like a horror film. I'm disgusted, angered, and a bit afraid, but I can't look away...

Dapper Reveler

GunsmithKitten
Avgvsto
GunsmithKitten
Avgvsto
I disagree with everyone on everything.


So in spite of all that moral finger wagging and talk, you really stand for nothing at all.

What a piece of work...
it's so cute when you stalk me


It's like a horror film. I'm disgusted, angered, and a bit afraid, but I can't look away...
i've never even taken acting lessons or anything.

Shameless Mystic

Henry Hobo-Master
Aporeia
Henry Hobo-Master
Aporeia
I'm curious why anyone would consider Mormonism not a religion. I guess people could call it really culty and all of that noise, but it's most certainly a religion by any reasonable criteria.

It's the usually the Christians who don't like Mormons. I never got it either. Many Christians could give 2 craps about the various amounts of denominations, yet they have problem with Mormonism.

Maybe I'm just generalizing however. I would honestly think that the "real religions" are simply the religions that people actually believe are true. Anything could be a religion as long as you worship something.
I've heard them call it "not christianity," which is actually something I sort of agree with. I've never heard it called "not a religion," with the exception of the people who want to claim their faith ISN'T a religion, despite their active involvement in religious institution.

The argument for Mormonism not being Christian isn't usually a sound one, but there is one point that is: Mormons aren't Christian for the same reason Muslims aren't.

Some Christians believe that if it's not Christianity, then it's not a "real religion". I think you have a valid point however. I can agree, if not partially with it. The biggest problem I have with religiously exclusive people, is that nobody ever wants to really acknowledge other religions as a "real" possibility. It's borderline fallacious, but I digress.
Not being a "true" religion as opposed to a religion that is real is a little different, and hard to identify in English unless you go to great lengths to separate them in your diction.

The idea that other religions are not "true" in their beliefs comes from a rejection of pluralism. We can't all be right.

Quote:
What exactly makes Mormons like Muslims, in the sense that they are not "Christian"? What is a Christian? What exactly is required to be one?
Muslims venerate Jesus, but their primary prophet and teacher is Muhammad, who is held higher than Jesus. Mormons do the same thing, but instead of Muhammad, it's Joseph Smith.
Aporeia
Not being a "true" religion as opposed to a religion that is real is a little different, and hard to identify in English unless you go to great lengths to separate them in your diction.

The idea that other religions are not "true" in their beliefs comes from a rejection of pluralism. We can't all be right.

I guess what I mean to say, is that some Christians go out of their way to denounce Mormonism, versus other religions. While they may see a Buddhist and not care, they personally have something against Mormonism.

That's just my experience, and I'm sure that there are plenty of other examples that oppose this. I'm not sure how to exactly classify their feelings towards this one; it feels like they don't really see Mormonism as a "true" religion, or even a valid religion. Yet, we all know that it is technically still one (a religion).

I guess it's kinda the same way with Scientology as a whole. A lot of people just have a hard time accepting it into the group because it doesn't meet their standards. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, or maybe I've just talked to the wrong people. It's a twisted sort of feeling, where it doesn't exactly make sense.

Quote:
Muslims venerate Jesus, but their primary prophet and teacher is Muhammad, who is held higher than Jesus. Mormons do the same thing, but instead of Muhammad, it's Joseph Smith.

Mormons do not do the same thing with Joseph Smith. Well, they are not supposed to. LDS doctrine supports that Joseph Smith is just another prophet. He was the guy that brought back the "true church" to Mormons. They vernerate Joseph Smith, and they worship God and Jesus.

I'm not Muslim, so I can't personally say what they believe with Jesus and Muhammad. That is exactly what I have heard before, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

Being raised Mormon, the only reason why Mormons talked about Joseph Smith so much, was because it was the foundation of the church. They essentially felt like they needed to give Joseph Smith a sort of divine credibility in order to make their book valid. Thus, you have all sorts of people who are crazy about Joseph Smith. However, they have all been told at one point or another, that Joseph Smith is not comparable to Jesus, and that it's only Jesus Christ who made their salvation possible.

Now, if you wanted to share the anti-mormon passage that contradicts that, I would be more than welcome to look at that as well. In the long run, none of this is really all that important. Christians or not, these things are just labels. The word "Christian" is a very hard one to define, and is almost always used as an equivocation in arguments. I don't exactly affiliate with the LDS church anymore, so I hope that I'm not being too pushy here.
I won't copy-paste the dictionary definition here, but as far as "what counts," if a religion is believed and practiced by people, I see it as a real religion.
Aporeia
I'm curious why anyone would consider Mormonism not a religion.


I think it might have something to do with Joseph Smith having made the whole thing up being a better theory than what Joseph Smith claimed.

Shameless Mystic

Cynthia_Rosenweiss
Aporeia
I'm curious why anyone would consider Mormonism not a religion.


I think it might have something to do with Joseph Smith having made the whole thing up being a better theory than what Joseph Smith claimed.
That doesn't have anything to do with it's religious status.

Newbie Noob

Avgvsto
I disagree with everyone on everything.


Does this mean anything anywhere?

AcidStrips's Husband

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Limonchiki
I won't copy-paste the dictionary definition here, but as far as "what counts," if a religion is believed and practiced by people, I see it as a real religion.


In the sense that it really is a religion.

Much like 100% naturally artificial butter flavored topping is natural.

Dapper Reveler

DarkSohisohi
Avgvsto
I disagree with everyone on everything.


Does this mean anything anywhere?
Not here.

Newbie Noob

Brothern
OP, are we talking about the classification of what constitutes religion, or the obsession religious people have with discriminating between who is (and is not) practicing "real religion"?

i.e., Are we talking dictionary defining terms or "who's cool, who's not" terms?

Quote:
How do you define a real religion?

Shameless Mystic

stealthmongoose
Limonchiki
I won't copy-paste the dictionary definition here, but as far as "what counts," if a religion is believed and practiced by people, I see it as a real religion.


In the sense that it really is a religion.

Much like 100% naturally artificial butter flavored topping is natural.
Most food isn't natural. Farmed food isn't natural, no matter how organic or traditional the farm is. The only food that counts as natural is that which grows without human supervision, be that wild game, or wild plants.

Natural implies without human involvement.

Duremian Demigod

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The term "real religion" is a nicely wrapped no true scotsman fallacy. Honestly if it haa tenants and some form of beliefs, its a religion.

Also with the Mormon debate, Mormons don't venerate Smith, they give credit to him. But they accept Jesus as lord and savior which makes them Christians. Muslims do not accept Christ as lord and savior, they like the Jews dont believe he's God. I've actually sat in on a few Mormon Bible Studies that some friends were holding. They dont just use Smith's teachings but the KJV as well.

If we're going to sling mud at other people's beliefs then go elsewhere. If you make a claim, either back it up or concede.
Like I said in the Hyrulian thread ; What makes our ancestors so special that their forms of religion are more valid than ours? Why can we not also make religions off of the current popular stories and characters? What about other modern religions, what makes them so different than the ones which include popular cult characters? Do you know that many people commonly use popular characters (like superman) as their pantheon in their religion? Do you ever consider that it is not the validity of the religion, but the efficiency of the results that is most important to the individual?

Of course, I already know the answer to this -- and it is a resounding "Yes, you can do that, you can believe in whatever you want." No one else has the authority to tell you how to think and believe as long as you are not infringing on the rights of others. It is not our job, nor is it morally ethical to revive the inquisition.

I have to think of a better answer than "You can do whatever you want" because people are dismissive of that statement, albiet it is true.

I do not agree with the concept that religion is so sacred that the common man cannot touch or modify it. That is discrimination.

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