Christians and Christmas

[blackheartgirl2]

rmcdra

blackheartgirl2

I have another question of Christians. I just want to understand.

Christmas is celebrated as the birthday of Jesus, but where in the bible does it say that and where does it say that you celebrate Jesus's birthday by having and old, fat, magic man break into your home and give gifts. Also i have been told that Jesus was not even born in December but there is a pagan holiday around the same time as Christmas that is the celebration of the birth of the sun.

It is very confusing. i hope someone can explain it to me.

It doesn't. Celebration of Christ's birth on Decemeber 25 goes back to Catholic tradition. It's based upon a Jewish tradition that prophets die on the day they were conceived. Since it's believed that Christ died on March 25, then based on this tradition, he was conceived on March 25. Add 9 months and you get... December 25.

As others have mentioned, most of the celebration is secular and Santa Clause derived from legends of a Bishop.

The other holidays being around this time are coincidence and idea of December 25 being selected to "convert the pagans" is a largely discredited idea in credible academic circles since the idea was based on now outdated information.

thank you

[bear eating a salmon]

it was originally a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice, which is where the things like mistletoe and coming down the chimney come from, but christians didn't like pagans, so they changed it christmas to celebrate the birth of christ.

[rmcdra]

bear eating a salmon

it was originally a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice, which is where the things like mistletoe and coming down the chimney come from, but christians didn't like pagans, so they changed it christmas to celebrate the birth of christ.

And I take it you believe in 7 day creationism too since you believe that bullshit? The "Christmas was created to convert the pagans" has been debunked for a number of years now. Get with the times.

[Inorei]

The New Wineskin

I was taught in my world history class that Christians got much of their symbolism and holidays (Lent, for instance) from the Romans; the Roman emperors, especially Nero, were extremely cruel and genocidal towards the Christians. Those who did not celebrate Roman festivals were under suspicion of being Christian, and so these people were targeted. So, the Christians began celebrating Roman holidays under the plot of worshiping Y'shua ha'Machiash. Christmas was the Saturnalia to the Romans. A second reason is that the Catholic Church, during much of the Middle Ages and beyond, were conquering Pagan areas. This may be where they got the ideas such as gift-giving and the use of the pine tree as incentives for Pagans to convert to Christianity. These two concepts specifically were from the celebration of Yule, a Germanic holiday.

That is a reason that actually makes sense for why they ended up at the same time on the calendar, other than the whole "they stole the holiday to convert them!"

I've also heard gift giving can be seen as commemorating the wise men bearing gifts. (Matthew 2:1)

[Inorei]

rmcdra

blackheartgirl2

I have another question of Christians. I just want to understand.

Christmas is celebrated as the birthday of Jesus, but where in the bible does it say that and where does it say that you celebrate Jesus's birthday by having and old, fat, magic man break into your home and give gifts. Also i have been told that Jesus was not even born in December but there is a pagan holiday around the same time as Christmas that is the celebration of the birth of the sun.

It is very confusing. i hope someone can explain it to me.

It doesn't. Celebration of Christ's birth on Decemeber 25 goes back to Catholic tradition. It's based upon a Jewish tradition that prophets die on the day they were conceived. Since it's believed that Christ died on March 25, then based on this tradition, he was conceived on March 25. Add 9 months and you get... December 25.

As others have mentioned, most of the celebration is secular and Santa Clause derived from legends of a Bishop.

The other holidays being around this time are coincidence and idea of December 25 being selected to "convert the pagans" is a largely discredited idea in credible academic circles since the idea was based on now outdated information.

You could also say it in reverse and say that's why Easter is celebrated in the spring, (which also is fitting to go along with resurrection). Or are there any other clues to the season it took place during?

[Inorei]

blackheartgirl2

Also i have been told that Jesus was not even born in December but there is a pagan holiday around the same time as Christmas that is the celebration of the birth of the sun.

That seems like a cool idea to celebrate the sun forming at that time of year. I mean, in the northern hemisphere that time has the shortest days of the year on Dec 20-22 when there is the least amount of sun. It seems like a nice time to put in a celebration for any reason. But I'm not sure it's been proven to me that it's impossible that Jesus could have actually been born in December either. I mean, the climate in Israel is more like a desert right, so it seems like shepherds still could have had sheep out on the fields at that time..? I don't know, just thinking about it.

[blackheartgirl2]

Inorei

blackheartgirl2

Also i have been told that Jesus was not even born in December but there is a pagan holiday around the same time as Christmas that is the celebration of the birth of the sun.

That seems like a cool idea to celebrate the sun forming at that time of year. I mean, in the northern hemisphere that time has the shortest days of the year on Dec 20-22 when there is the least amount of sun. It seems like a nice time to put in a celebration for any reason. But I'm not sure it's been proven to me that it's impossible that Jesus could have actually been born in December either. I mean, the climate in Israel is more like a desert right, so it seems like shepherds still could have had sheep out on the fields at that time..? I don't know, just thinking about it.

i was told that he was born during a different month. Some one else did say something about they believe he was conceived on the day he died and 9 months later would be dec.25, but i don't know

yeah it is good time of the year to have a celebration but winter has been here for a while and people spirits are probably low. So celebrating the sun coming back would be a very happy thing.

[rmcdra]

Inorei

rmcdra

blackheartgirl2

I have another question of Christians. I just want to understand.

Christmas is celebrated as the birthday of Jesus, but where in the bible does it say that and where does it say that you celebrate Jesus's birthday by having and old, fat, magic man break into your home and give gifts. Also i have been told that Jesus was not even born in December but there is a pagan holiday around the same time as Christmas that is the celebration of the birth of the sun.

It is very confusing. i hope someone can explain it to me.

It doesn't. Celebration of Christ's birth on Decemeber 25 goes back to Catholic tradition. It's based upon a Jewish tradition that prophets die on the day they were conceived. Since it's believed that Christ died on March 25, then based on this tradition, he was conceived on March 25. Add 9 months and you get... December 25.

As others have mentioned, most of the celebration is secular and Santa Clause derived from legends of a Bishop.

The other holidays being around this time are coincidence and idea of December 25 being selected to "convert the pagans" is a largely discredited idea in credible academic circles since the idea was based on now outdated information.

You could also say it in reverse and say that's why Easter is celebrated in the spring, (which also is fitting to go along with resurrection). Or are there any other clues to the season it took place during?

Easter is based on a calculation variation of Passover. Easter always fall on the first sunday after the first Pashal full moon. Pashal is the Greek name for the month that Passover is celebrated on the Hebrew calendar. For a while, bishops would consult with rabbis to get the date for passover so they could calculate when Easter fell. Eventually they came up with their own calculation methods.

Because of the way the calculation is set up, Easter always falls after the spring equinox

[The New Wineskin]

Juxtaposed In America

The New Wineskin

There are generally two different ideas as to why Christianity associated Jesus' birth with the winter solstice:

I was taught in my world history class that Christians got much of their symbolism and holidays (Lent, for instance) from the Romans; the Roman emperors, especially Nero, were extremely cruel and genocidal towards the Christians. Those who did not celebrate Roman festivals were under suspicion of being Christian, and so these people were targeted. So, the Christians began celebrating Roman holidays under the plot of worshiping Y'shua ha'Machiash. Christmas was the Saturnalia to the Romans. A second reason is that the Catholic Church, during much of the Middle Ages and beyond, were conquering Pagan areas. This may be where they got the ideas such as gift-giving and the use of the pine tree as incentives for Pagans to convert to Christianity. These two concepts specifically were from the celebration of Yule, a Germanic holiday.

As for Santa Claus, he comes from the Greek Bishop of Myra Saint Nikolaos the Wonderworker, or Saint Nicholas. He had a reputation as a gift-giver, providing coin to beggars and friends by hiding them in their shoes as they slept, which is where the French get their celebration of putting gifts in children's shoes instead of in stockings, as is traditional in America. The look of Santa Claus was largely influenced by Thomas Nast and Clement Clarke Moore's "A Visit from St. Nicholas".

Jesus' birthday was likely in Spring. Luke 2:8 (NIV) says, "And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night." Shepherds do not flock their sheep during the nights of Winter. They usually do this during the Spring.

I hope that helped answer your question.

This post has been edited: 3 times

Thomas Nast for all extents and purposes created the Iconic Santa Claus.

It was based on the description of Clement Clarke Moore's story, if I'm not mistaken, though.

[Inorei]

rmcdra

Easter is based on a calculation variation of Passover. Easter always fall on the first sunday after the first Pashal full moon. Pashal is the Greek name for the month that Passover is celebrated on the Hebrew calendar. For a while, bishops would consult with rabbis to get the date for passover so they could calculate when Easter fell. Eventually they came up with their own calculation methods.

Because of the way the calculation is set up, Easter always falls after the spring equinox

Oh. Thanks for that info.
So, yeah, Jesus died at the time of Passover... and that is the way they determined(/ine?) when to celebrate passover was on the Hebrew calender which is... *looks up*

the same length every year with different length months that follows the moon and then they add in leap months to stay on track with the solar calendar. rolleyes

From this I have learned that the specific months are kind of not so important in the long run, it is the purpose of the celebration that matters. It doesn't really matter that we keep it in the same month every year, because even the same month isn't the same every year. Does that make sense?

However, for keeping track of how long ago something happened historically, a lunar based calendar makes things tricky because the year isn't the same number of days all the time. I mean, you can still get an idea of how long ago something happened but for anything where you would want to do a numerical calculation or have a timeline, the farther you can go back is depending on how well records were kept. This really gives me more of a sense of how difficult ancient historians have it and why their stuff seems so much like speculation all the time. eek

[rmcdra]

Inorei

rmcdra

Easter is based on a calculation variation of Passover. Easter always fall on the first sunday after the first Pashal full moon. Pashal is the Greek name for the month that Passover is celebrated on the Hebrew calendar. For a while, bishops would consult with rabbis to get the date for passover so they could calculate when Easter fell. Eventually they came up with their own calculation methods.

Because of the way the calculation is set up, Easter always falls after the spring equinox

Oh. Thanks for that info.
So, yeah, Jesus died at the time of Passover... and that is the way they determined(/ine?) when to celebrate passover was on the Hebrew calender which is... *looks up*

the same length every year with different length months that follows the moon and then they add in leap months to stay on track with the solar calendar. rolleyes

From this I have learned that the specific months are kind of not so important in the long run, it is the purpose of the celebration that matters. It doesn't really matter that we keep it in the same month every year, because even the same month isn't the same every year. Does that make sense?

However, for keeping track of how long ago something happened historically, a lunar based calendar makes things tricky because the year isn't the same number of days all the time. I mean, you can still get an idea of how long ago something happened but for anything where you would want to do a numerical calculation or have a timeline, the farther you can go back is depending on how well records were kept. This really gives me more of a sense of how difficult ancient historians have it and why their stuff seems so much like speculation all the time. eek

That and you have more national and personal bias in older historical records than you do in modern ones. The way history is academically recorded now is much different than it was in the past.

[Tuesday_Smiles]

an excellent question. Truth be told the origins of Christmas is due to lumberjacks. They would never go into the forest in winter nights because they feared a demonic elf that would appear and murder them. To ward him away they would cut down a tree and stick it in their home. So instead the church decided to abolish this tradition and use the day to celebrate Christ's birth. It has been noted that Christ was in fact not born on December the 25, but why should that at all stop people from celebrating it? Since the day is not known people are more than welcomed to celebrate Jesus' birth on any day it is but more popular to celebrate it then.