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Incredible Genius

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“And on the morrow, when they had come out of Bethany, he [Jesus] hungered. And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if perhaps he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for it was not the season of figs. And he answered and said unto it, ‘No man [will] eat fruit from you from now on — for ever.’ And his disciples heard it …. And as they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance said unto him, ‘Rabbi, behold, the fig tree that you cursed is withered away’” (Mk. 11:12-14; 20-21).


This is stupid. It wasn't in season so he got pissed at it?

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It was a dramatic presentation of an analogy he was trying to make.

Israel is the fig tree. When God the "farmer" comes to his tree and sees that it is barren and devoid of spiritual fruits, then God will condemn them all for their lack of faith and destroy them.

So it's not really about the tree, but a warning.

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It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

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ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Is the answer unnecessary bloodshed? I have a good hunch it's the countless deaths of innocent people ranging from men, women, and children and whatnot.

Incredible Genius

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Inscriven
It was a dramatic presentation of an analogy he was trying to make.

Israel is the fig tree. When God the "farmer" comes to his tree and sees that it is barren and devoid of spiritual fruits, then God will condemn them all for their lack of faith and destroy them.

So it's not really about the tree, but a warning.

Dude, it specifically describes a fig tree that does not bear fruit BECAUSE it isn't in season. The tree has no choice. That's a very awful comparison. We have the choice to believe in God whereas the tree is only able to grow fruit one season of the year. Also, that doesn't sound like a loving God.

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Hikarulawl
ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Is the answer unnecessary bloodshed? I have a good hunch it's the countless deaths of innocent people ranging from men, women, and children and whatnot.

Oh... No... Nono. I'm playing jeopardy and you failed to phrase that as a question. Next category?

Incredible Genius

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ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Exactly, or knowing exactly what every person will do in their life and yet claiming everybody has free will.

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ratgirl34
Hikarulawl
ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Is the answer unnecessary bloodshed? I have a good hunch it's the countless deaths of innocent people ranging from men, women, and children and whatnot.

Oh... No... Nono. I'm playing jeopardy and you failed to phrase that as a question. Next category?

Aw dammit. I'll take Moses and the Burning Bush for 200.

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Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Exactly, or knowing exactly what every person will do in their life and yet claiming everybody has free will.


Oddly enough, the all-knowing 'nature' that Yahweh is supposed to have confuses me sometimes. I can wrap my head around the idea of knowing all information there is to know. Science, history... All that sort of thing.

I can't wrap my head around knowing the future while still reacting the way that Yahweh does. He supposedly knows what we'll do before we do it, then punishes us eternally after we die. Like... What the hell? That's like whipping the a** of a full grown adult for something they did as a toddler. What's the freaking point? And even then, all the bible gives us is Yahweh's word that any of that happens anyway. And with how many times in the bible he lies... Well I wouldn't want to try betting on when he's telling the truth, the odds appear to be about 50/50.

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Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
Inscriven
It was a dramatic presentation of an analogy he was trying to make.

Israel is the fig tree. When God the "farmer" comes to his tree and sees that it is barren and devoid of spiritual fruits, then God will condemn them all for their lack of faith and destroy them.

So it's not really about the tree, but a warning.

Dude, it specifically describes a fig tree that does not bear fruit BECAUSE it isn't in season. The tree has no choice. That's a very awful comparison. We have the choice to believe in God whereas the tree is only able to grow fruit one season of the year. Also, that doesn't sound like a loving God.


Quote:
The fact that Mark adds these words shows that he knew what he was talking about. When the fig leaves appear about the end of March, they are accompanied by a crop of small knobs, called taqsh by the Arabs, a sort of fore-runner of the real figs. These taqsh are eaten by peasants and others when hungry. They drop off before the real fig is formed. But if the leaves appear unaccompanied by taqsh, there will be no figs that year. So it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree to assuage His hunger for the time being, that the absence of the taqsh meant that there would be no figs when the time of figs came. For all its fair foliage, it was a fruitless and a hopeless tree.
- Bruce, Are The New Testament Documents Reliable? [Intervarsity Press; Downers Grove, Ill, fifth revised edition 1992]


That's the context you're missing to Jesus' actions. The bible makes frequent analogies to figs and vines as God's people and the people inviting destruction from God because of their actions. Mark talks about a parable where a farmer left his vineyard in care of some guys and whenever he sent his servants to collect the harvest they were beaten. When he sent his own son, they killed him. So naturally, when the farmer goes back himself, he would kill them all.

This whole loving save all the things perception of God that you understand did not start until after Christianity started. Israel and the world as a whole was at it's core completely and irreparably screwed up and worthy of being utterly destroyed for its disobedience to God. God showed his mercy and compassion and they turned from him and served only themselves.

Usually Jews would offer a blood sacrifice to atone for their sins to God, but at this point the amount of debt they would have to pay so God was so immense that it was completely impossible for humanity to redeem itself. That's why Jesus was the last ditch effort to save humanity from itself. His example, his being, and his sacrifice was the only perfect act of atonement that humanity had left.

Incredible Genius

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ratgirl34
Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Exactly, or knowing exactly what every person will do in their life and yet claiming everybody has free will.


Oddly enough, the all-knowing 'nature' that Yahweh is supposed to have confuses me sometimes. I can wrap my head around the idea of knowing all information there is to know. Science, history... All that sort of thing.

I can't wrap my head around knowing the future while still reacting the way that Yahweh does. He supposedly knows what we'll do before we do it, then punishes us eternally after we die. Like... What the hell? That's like whipping the a** of a full grown adult for something they did as a toddler. What's the freaking point? And even then, all the bible gives us is Yahweh's word that any of that happens anyway. And with how many times in the bible he lies... Well I wouldn't want to try betting on when he's telling the truth, the odds appear to be about 50/50.

I find the contradiction quite interesting because if God were to predict what somebody was going to do shortly, and he can't ever be wrong, then they have to do it.

Incredible Genius

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Inscriven
Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
Inscriven
It was a dramatic presentation of an analogy he was trying to make.

Israel is the fig tree. When God the "farmer" comes to his tree and sees that it is barren and devoid of spiritual fruits, then God will condemn them all for their lack of faith and destroy them.

So it's not really about the tree, but a warning.

Dude, it specifically describes a fig tree that does not bear fruit BECAUSE it isn't in season. The tree has no choice. That's a very awful comparison. We have the choice to believe in God whereas the tree is only able to grow fruit one season of the year. Also, that doesn't sound like a loving God.


Quote:
The fact that Mark adds these words shows that he knew what he was talking about. When the fig leaves appear about the end of March, they are accompanied by a crop of small knobs, called taqsh by the Arabs, a sort of fore-runner of the real figs. These taqsh are eaten by peasants and others when hungry. They drop off before the real fig is formed. But if the leaves appear unaccompanied by taqsh, there will be no figs that year. So it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree to assuage His hunger for the time being, that the absence of the taqsh meant that there would be no figs when the time of figs came. For all its fair foliage, it was a fruitless and a hopeless tree.
- Bruce, Are The New Testament Documents Reliable? [Intervarsity Press; Downers Grove, Ill, fifth revised edition 1992]


That's the context you're missing to Jesus' actions. The bible makes frequent analogies to figs and vines as God's people and the people inviting destruction from God because of their actions. Mark talks about a parable where a farmer left his vineyard in care of some guys and whenever he sent his servants to collect the harvest they were beaten. When he sent his own son, they killed him. So naturally, when the farmer goes back himself, he would kill them all.

This whole loving save all the things perception of God that you understand did not start until after Christianity started. Israel and the world as a whole was at it's core completely and irreparably screwed up and worthy of being utterly destroyed for its disobedience to God. God showed his mercy and compassion and they turned from him and served only themselves.

Usually Jews would offer a blood sacrifice to atone for their sins to God, but at this point the amount of debt they would have to pay so God was so immense that it was completely impossible for humanity to redeem itself. That's why Jesus was the last ditch effort to save humanity from itself. His example, his being, and his sacrifice was the only perfect act of atonement that humanity had left.

It's quite ridiculous to follow God though. He is always right, and yet we have free will, he's all powerful, and yet couldn't create a wold with free will but no evil, and even when he said he didn't want to mess with free will, he was constantly screwing with it by showing himself to people. Conveniently enough, he did this all before cameras were invented.

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Inscriven
Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
Inscriven
It was a dramatic presentation of an analogy he was trying to make.

Israel is the fig tree. When God the "farmer" comes to his tree and sees that it is barren and devoid of spiritual fruits, then God will condemn them all for their lack of faith and destroy them.

So it's not really about the tree, but a warning.

Dude, it specifically describes a fig tree that does not bear fruit BECAUSE it isn't in season. The tree has no choice. That's a very awful comparison. We have the choice to believe in God whereas the tree is only able to grow fruit one season of the year. Also, that doesn't sound like a loving God.


Quote:
The fact that Mark adds these words shows that he knew what he was talking about. When the fig leaves appear about the end of March, they are accompanied by a crop of small knobs, called taqsh by the Arabs, a sort of fore-runner of the real figs. These taqsh are eaten by peasants and others when hungry. They drop off before the real fig is formed. But if the leaves appear unaccompanied by taqsh, there will be no figs that year. So it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree to assuage His hunger for the time being, that the absence of the taqsh meant that there would be no figs when the time of figs came. For all its fair foliage, it was a fruitless and a hopeless tree.
- Bruce, Are The New Testament Documents Reliable? [Intervarsity Press; Downers Grove, Ill, fifth revised edition 1992]


That's the context you're missing to Jesus' actions. The bible makes frequent analogies to figs and vines as God's people and the people inviting destruction from God because of their actions. Mark talks about a parable where a farmer left his vineyard in care of some guys and whenever he sent his servants to collect the harvest they were beaten. When he sent his own son, they killed him. So naturally, when the farmer goes back himself, he would kill them all.

This whole loving save all the things perception of God that you understand did not start until after Christianity started. Israel and the world as a whole was at it's core completely and irreparably screwed up and worthy of being utterly destroyed for its disobedience to God. God showed his mercy and compassion and they turned from him and served only themselves.

Usually Jews would offer a blood sacrifice to atone for their sins to God, but at this point the amount of debt they would have to pay so God was so immense that it was completely impossible for humanity to redeem itself. That's why Jesus was the last ditch effort to save humanity from itself. His example, his being, and his sacrifice was the only perfect act of atonement that humanity had left.

According to Genesis humanity was past the point of forgiveness anyway. Otherwise why would the sacrifices be needed at all? If we could have been saved by our own actions, then Yahweh would never have had a reason to tell Adam and Eve that he would send a messiah to cleanse humanity of its sins.

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Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
ratgirl34
Sir Kyle of Elsewhere
ratgirl34
It makes about as much sense as condemning someone for not being circumcised, or eating a fruit that was left in easy access, or ruining a mans life as a test of faith when you already know what the outcome will be.

Exactly, or knowing exactly what every person will do in their life and yet claiming everybody has free will.


Oddly enough, the all-knowing 'nature' that Yahweh is supposed to have confuses me sometimes. I can wrap my head around the idea of knowing all information there is to know. Science, history... All that sort of thing.

I can't wrap my head around knowing the future while still reacting the way that Yahweh does. He supposedly knows what we'll do before we do it, then punishes us eternally after we die. Like... What the hell? That's like whipping the a** of a full grown adult for something they did as a toddler. What's the freaking point? And even then, all the bible gives us is Yahweh's word that any of that happens anyway. And with how many times in the bible he lies... Well I wouldn't want to try betting on when he's telling the truth, the odds appear to be about 50/50.

I find the contradiction quite interesting because if God were to predict what somebody was going to do shortly, and he can't ever be wrong, then they have to do it.

It's a ******** up way for any entity to exist.

Maybe Dr. Manhattan really is the best god reference in literature though. I mean... Maybe Yahweh didn't know everything until after he set s**t in motion. He'd be just as trapped in his actions as we are in ours.

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