blg difference between society and Jesus

[Sugarbeary]

Mark 2:15

And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

modern family star refuses to take picture with Rick Santorum

Quote:

"Rick Santorum wanted a picture with me. It was at a time when he was publicly saying, 'Gay marriage, gay marriage [is wrong],' and I'm like, 'You know, I can't do it,'" he said. "It was with him and his kids or something like that, and I said, 'I'd be happy to take a picture with the kids, but I can't just be in a picture with [Santorum.]'"

As you can see in the comments, people are cheering for this star, and easily mock Jesus and His followers as if it wasn't offensive, and try to show that by hating Christians, they are able to juxtapose this situation and appear superior by comparison.

There are so many examples of this in society, sorry to only cherrypick one. However, it should be enough for discussion, and I have homework to do. If you would like to bring more examples of people juxtaposing themselves with other bad acts to appear morally superior, I'll add it to the OP if it is decent.

Discuss the pro's and con's of a society that believes love is shunning 'bad' people to appear as morally superior. Discuss how you would ideally show love to a person that supports "hate." Discuss if you think that mocking Jesus is hateful and if you think you can offend a Christian.

[stealthmongoose]

From the OP, it seems like you're insinuating that refusing to take a picture with an individual who has prejudice against homosexuals is disrespectful.

Your citation for this immorality is Mark 2:15 of the Bible.

Also in Mark 2 absurdities such as faith healing are cited, as well as a glaring contradiction in which Jesus claims that he can forgive sins, then tells a person to shut up because it's blasphemy to think that anyone can forgive sins but God.

The Bible seems irrelevant to the ethics of this Modern Family photo op.

Is there any particular reason Rick Santorum should be given permission to take a photo with this individual against his will?

[Rumblestiltskin]

Hmmm...that's odd...just looking through the comments, the only person that even mentioned anything close to jesus was mocking Santorum's tone when shoving his religious agenda...not the person. In fact, I'd wager that the majority of the people responding probably call themselves christian...considering they do make up a large portion of english speakers. Hell, let's double the wager, and I'll add that they most likely aren't supporting anything of any "anti-religious nature" ...but are actually supporting an actor holding to principles of not being associated with a bigot...

[Dieu des hommes]

I don't see how refusing to take a picture with an outspoken anti-gay politician has anything to do with mocking Jesus.

[Sugarbeary]

stealthmongoose

From the OP, it seems like you're insinuating that refusing to take a picture with an individual who has prejudice against homosexuals is disrespectful.

Your citation for this immorality is Mark 2:15 of the Bible.

Also in Mark 2 absurdities such as faith healing are cited, as well as a glaring contradiction in which Jesus claims that he can forgive sins, then tells a person to shut up because it's blasphemy to think that anyone can forgive sins but God.

The Bible seems irrelevant to the ethics of this Modern Family photo op.

Is there any particular reason Rick Santorum should be given permission to take a photo with this individual against his will?

Disregarding your blatant hate speech,

of course a person's free will takes precedence, if he doesn't want to its his prerogative. Obviously it attracted news media attention so he scored points out of it for one.

Jesus intentionally made it a priority to sit and eat with people who were, according to culture, the most sinful people and to love on these people.

No, I wouldn't say it was 'disrespectful' of him not to take the photo, but can you not see the contrast?

[Sugarbeary]

Dieu des hommes

I don't see how refusing to take a picture with an outspoken anti-gay politician has anything to do with mocking Jesus.

It isn't inherently, but the underworld that is the comment section definitely took it as a call to arms.

I was pointing out the difference between Jesus and this guy. Jesus intentionally sat with people who were called sinners and the bottom of the totem pole, he went to the well when there was a sumerian woman there, something you didn't do at that time. Jesus healed the ear of a person that was taking him away to die. He associated and healed the 'untouchable' lepers and blind and demon-possessed.

This man wanted nothing to do with a person that disagreed with him, because he thought the difference in thought was hateful in and of itself. While Jesus may or may not have taken the photo, since there were times in His ministry He was bold and sometimes He was stealthy, it wouldn't have been because there was a difference in opinion. And Jesus spent a good portion of His ministry arguing with the pharisees and sadducees.

[Rumblestiltskin]

LoveLoud837

Disregarding your blatant hate speech,

Soooo...you didn't disregard any of his post then....because nothing he posted could be classified as hate speech...

Quote:

of course a person's free will takes precedence, if he doesn't want to its his prerogative. Obviously it attracted news media attention so he scored points out of it for one.

Which I'm willing to bet wasn't even on his mind...in fact, my guess would be that what was running through his mind at the time is "I don't want people to think I support this guy."

Quote:

Jesus intentionally made it a priority to sit and eat with people who were, according to culture, the most sinful people and to love on these people.

And as far as I know, the actor in question hasn't made any claim of being jesus....

Quote:

No, I wouldn't say it was 'disrespectful' of him not to take the photo, but can you not see the contrast?

Okay, some people are more tolerant of assholes than others...this isn't exactly anything new....

[Sugarbeary]

Rumblestiltskin

LoveLoud837

Disregarding your blatant hate speech,

Soooo...you didn't disregard any of his post then....because nothing he posted could be classified as hate speech...

Quote:

as well as a glaring contradiction in which Jesus claims that he can forgive sins, then tells a person to shut up because it's blasphemy to think that anyone can forgive sins but God.

insinuating that Jesus is not God. And clicking his link to an annotated skeptic bible at the reading level of a 1st grader, you see that there is a link that says Jesus couldn't have forgiven him of his sins to heal the guy because Jesus isn't God and can't forgive sins. The first verse given to support this argument is a satirical argument Jesus gives to a rich man, its laughable. I wish mongoose guy had some knowledge of the bible to have like a worthwhile argument over these things but no.

In the article it states that the actor was willing to take a photo with Rick Santorum's kids, but not Rick Santorum himself. Thoughts of trying to avoid being pictured with Santorum don't apply. It was because he thought hating those who by his perception have hateful views expressed love to him.

[Dieu des hommes]

LoveLoud837

It isn't inherently, but the underworld that is the comment section definitely took it as a call to arms.

I was pointing out the difference between Jesus and this guy. Jesus intentionally sat with people who were called sinners and the bottom of the totem pole, he went to the well when there was a sumerian woman there, something you didn't do at that time. Jesus healed the ear of a person that was taking him away to die. He associated and healed the 'untouchable' lepers and blind and demon-possessed.

This man wanted nothing to do with a person that disagreed with him, because he thought the difference in thought was hateful in and of itself. While Jesus may or may not have taken the photo, since there were times in His ministry He was bold and sometimes He was stealthy, it wouldn't have been because there was a difference in opinion. And Jesus spent a good portion of His ministry arguing with the pharisees and sadducees.

I wouldn't bother looking at the comment section for news websites like that.

None of that is comparable to this situation though. Not wanting your photo taken with a person that actively pursues to stop homosexuals from getting equal rights is not comparable to Jesus spending time helping lepers and blind people. Firstly it's just a god damn photograph. Secondly why would you expect him to be like Christ, what is the point in this comparison. Thirdly, how much are you like Christ yourself? Are you quitting your job/education and going out volunteering in West Africa at the moment? It's not very Christ-like to sit about and let those people suffer.

[Sugarbeary]

Dieu des hommes

LoveLoud837

It isn't inherently, but the underworld that is the comment section definitely took it as a call to arms.

I was pointing out the difference between Jesus and this guy. Jesus intentionally sat with people who were called sinners and the bottom of the totem pole, he went to the well when there was a sumerian woman there, something you didn't do at that time. Jesus healed the ear of a person that was taking him away to die. He associated and healed the 'untouchable' lepers and blind and demon-possessed.

This man wanted nothing to do with a person that disagreed with him, because he thought the difference in thought was hateful in and of itself. While Jesus may or may not have taken the photo, since there were times in His ministry He was bold and sometimes He was stealthy, it wouldn't have been because there was a difference in opinion. And Jesus spent a good portion of His ministry arguing with the pharisees and sadducees.

I wouldn't bother looking at the comment section for news websites like that.

None of that is comparable to this situation though. Not wanting your photo taken with a person that actively pursues to stop homosexuals from getting equal rights is not comparable to Jesus spending time helping lepers and blind people. Firstly it's just a god damn photograph. Secondly why would you expect him to be like Christ, what is the point in this comparison. Thirdly, how much are you like Christ yourself? Are you quitting your job/education and going out volunteering in West Africa at the moment? It's not very Christ-like to sit about and let those people suffer.

-comment sections give a pulse of how people feel about the article and the situation that the article talks about. Seeing that a person rejected a republican, a Christian, just gave them the feeling they are on the 'offensive' and are allowed to gather and offend Christians.

here are some of those comments

Good for Mr. Stonestreet! Glad he stands by his principles! Just another reason to love him and the show! (people love him for refusing to take a picture with him.)

Mr. Stonestreet is doing something that no republican can ever understand. He's standing by his principles. (insinuating that no republican has principles, stereotyping an entire group of people, which obviously is offensive and wrong. regardless of the fact that Santorum is standing on his principle that marriage is between man and woman, and a person who would realize that this is now very unpopular, a person without principles would switch positions.)

Two big thumbs up. Why would he want to take a picture with such a hate monger. (insinuating that being against gay marriage makes you a hate monger, regardless of how you actually treat all people and homosexuals.)

Santorum is, well, Santorum, a hater of all except rich, privileged white men that worship the great Jaysus gawd thingie. (claiming Santorum is racist with no reasons why, and obviously trying to insult and downplay God and those who worship Him.)

Eric, You are a great talent and a wonderful human being!

that's the comment I leave with. What word comes out of every political candidate's mouth when they run for office? Bipartisan. What does bipartisan require? Communication. Ostracizing people based on some of their beliefs destroys communication. How can you say you love all people when you won't even acknowledge some people, groups of people I may add, with this thinking you wouldn't be able to even get to know people.

I've had a jewish roommate who was bisexual. First off, even if I didn't support gay marriage before it was passed and just live with it now that its here, if my roommate and I had a good household situation and were friends, I don't think that constitutes me as a homophobe. Second off, if my roommate, because of my roommate's jewish religion didn't support gay marriage, but was gay, does that make my roommate a homophobe? I don't think so. It takes communication with people to label them as hateful.

-Jesus eating with sinners and tax collectors, lepers and the blind is an important distinction, as they were viewed as the 'untouchable' people of the day. They were the ones that were hated, much like how Rick Santorum is for his stance on marriage. Jesus sat, communicated, loved on them. Eric and these people who love him for what he did neglected them and shunned them, and that is a delusion of what love is.

-the church does not work solely off of mission work for the poor. You are delusional if you think that is so. Even so, working for the 'poor' requires resources. Without resources, getting shipped to West Africa would be the equivalent of being one of the locals. Needs include healthcare which needs doctors. Clean water which requires wells among other sources. All of these require money. Quitting a job to become a helper and refusing education to become a helper is not necessarily good. It could be if there is a serious need for just people, that can do things like clean toilets and pass out food. Becoming a successful employee that manages money well and tithes to organizations that fund these people, while being active in the local community and taking a missionary trip for a week or so every other year is very good for the kingdom, not everyone dropping their jobs. Not that it wouldn't function because the church has been prophecized to last forever, but it would be very difficult if all christians suddenly dropped their jobs and education.

[anonymous attributes]

LoveLoud837

Mark 2:15

And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

modern family star refuses to take picture with Rick Santorum

Quote:

"Rick Santorum wanted a picture with me. It was at a time when he was publicly saying, 'Gay marriage, gay marriage [is wrong],' and I'm like, 'You know, I can't do it,'" he said. "It was with him and his kids or something like that, and I said, 'I'd be happy to take a picture with the kids, but I can't just be in a picture with [Santorum.]'"

As you can see in the comments, people are cheering for this star, and easily mock Jesus and His followers as if it wasn't offensive, and try to show that by hating Christians, they are able to juxtapose this situation and appear superior by comparison.

There are so many examples of this in society, sorry to only cherrypick one. However, it should be enough for discussion, and I have homework to do. If you would like to bring more examples of people juxtaposing themselves with other bad acts to appear morally superior, I'll add it to the OP if it is decent.

Discuss the pro's and con's of a society that believes love is shunning 'bad' people to appear as morally superior. Discuss how you would ideally show love to a person that supports "hate." Discuss if you think that mocking Jesus is hateful and if you think you can offend a Christian.[/quote



Mark 2:15-17

15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[Rumblestiltskin]

LoveLoud837

insinuating that Jesus is not God.

Even if that was what he was doing (which he wasn't...cause remember, you're accusing HIM of hate speech...the link he posted is not him), that's not hate speech. There are several denominations of christianity that don't think jesus was god...by your argument, their beliefs would also have to qualify as hate speech...and your counter beliefs would also be hate speech...but that's precisely why this kind of thing isn't hate speech....it's a difference of theological opinion...that's all.

Quote:

And clicking his link to an annotated skeptic bible at the reading level of a 1st grader, you see that there is a link that says Jesus couldn't have forgiven him of his sins to heal the guy because Jesus isn't God and can't forgive sins.

It never said that. In fact, it asked the question, and then provided examples, all from the bible, of him both being god and not being god...it's called a "biblical contradiction." Just because you don't want to believe they exist doesn't change the fact that they do, in fact, exist.

Quote:

The first verse given to support this argument is a satirical argument Jesus gives to a rich man, its laughable. I wish mongoose guy had some knowledge of the bible to have like a worthwhile argument over these things but no.

I've seen mongoose enough to know that he kind of knows his s**t. The only reason the discussion wouldn't be worthwhile is because I don't think he wants to hand hold you through a discussion where you try to duck answering questions or have to wade through your revisionist view on every post.

Quote:

In the article it states that the actor was willing to take a photo with Rick Santorum's kids, but not Rick Santorum himself. Thoughts of trying to avoid being pictured with Santorum don't apply.

He said he didn't want to take a picture with Santorum specifically. To say that avoiding being associated with him don't apply in this situation is beyond idiotic...it's the entire point, buddy.

Quote:

It was because he thought hating those who by his perception have hateful views expressed love to him.

That's not necessarily hate. Not wanting to associate with a bigot doesn't mean you hate said bigot...

[haunting heaven]

LoveLoud837

stealthmongoose

From the OP, it seems like you're insinuating that refusing to take a picture with an individual who has prejudice against homosexuals is disrespectful.

Your citation for this immorality is Mark 2:15 of the Bible.

Also in Mark 2 absurdities such as faith healing are cited, as well as a glaring contradiction in which Jesus claims that he can forgive sins, then tells a person to shut up because it's blasphemy to think that anyone can forgive sins but God.

The Bible seems irrelevant to the ethics of this Modern Family photo op.

Is there any particular reason Rick Santorum should be given permission to take a photo with this individual against his will?

Disregarding your blatant hate speech,

Guessing you're not sure what hate speech is, then?

Quote:

of course a person's free will takes precedence, if he doesn't want to its his prerogative. Obviously it attracted news media attention so he scored points out of it for one.

Jesus intentionally made it a priority to sit and eat with people who were, according to culture, the most sinful people and to love on these people.

Are you... are you saying that homophobes are the most sinful people in our culture? 'Cause, like, I wouldn't necessarily disagree that they make the list (though I wouldn't use the word "sinful"), but are you really sure you want to make this comparison?

Quote:

No, I wouldn't say it was 'disrespectful' of him not to take the photo, but can you not see the contrast?

Jesus sat with the people who were disregarded and often abused by society. Pretty sure Jesus would have considered Rick Santorum to be more in line with the Pharisees (and Jesus was definitely not a fan of the Pharisees, as we all know). So, no, there is no real contrast here. Rick Santorum is a judgmental hypocrite (i.e., Pharisee) not one of the maligned and abused of our society.

So, if Jesus was here, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be taking photos with Ricky, either.

[Sugarbeary]

haunting heaven

LoveLoud837

stealthmongoose

From the OP, it seems like you're insinuating that refusing to take a picture with an individual who has prejudice against homosexuals is disrespectful.

Your citation for this immorality is Mark 2:15 of the Bible.

Also in Mark 2 absurdities such as faith healing are cited, as well as a glaring contradiction in which Jesus claims that he can forgive sins, then tells a person to shut up because it's blasphemy to think that anyone can forgive sins but God.

The Bible seems irrelevant to the ethics of this Modern Family photo op.

Is there any particular reason Rick Santorum should be given permission to take a photo with this individual against his will?

Disregarding your blatant hate speech,

Guessing you're not sure what hate speech is, then?

Quote:

of course a person's free will takes precedence, if he doesn't want to its his prerogative. Obviously it attracted news media attention so he scored points out of it for one.

Jesus intentionally made it a priority to sit and eat with people who were, according to culture, the most sinful people and to love on these people.

Are you... are you saying that homophobes are the most sinful people in our culture? 'Cause, like, I wouldn't necessarily disagree that they make the list (though I wouldn't use the word "sinful"), but are you really sure you want to make this comparison?

Quote:

No, I wouldn't say it was 'disrespectful' of him not to take the photo, but can you not see the contrast?

Jesus sat with the people who were disregarded and often abused by society. Pretty sure Jesus would have considered Rick Santorum to be more in line with the Pharisees (and Jesus was definitely not a fan of the Pharisees, as we all know). So, no, there is no real contrast here. Rick Santorum is a judgmental hypocrite (i.e., Pharisee) not one of the maligned and abused of our society.

So, if Jesus was here, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be taking photos with Ricky, either.

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs and cheered on by society, a stark contrast to anyone who utters a slander against islam. Compound that with someone happening to be born white and its just a double dose of societal hatred.

[haunting heaven]

LoveLoud837

haunting heaven

LoveLoud837

stealthmongoose

From the OP, it seems like you're insinuating that refusing to take a picture with an individual who has prejudice against homosexuals is disrespectful.

Your citation for this immorality is Mark 2:15 of the Bible.

Also in Mark 2 absurdities such as faith healing are cited, as well as a glaring contradiction in which Jesus claims that he can forgive sins, then tells a person to shut up because it's blasphemy to think that anyone can forgive sins but God.

The Bible seems irrelevant to the ethics of this Modern Family photo op.

Is there any particular reason Rick Santorum should be given permission to take a photo with this individual against his will?

Disregarding your blatant hate speech,

Guessing you're not sure what hate speech is, then?

Quote:

of course a person's free will takes precedence, if he doesn't want to its his prerogative. Obviously it attracted news media attention so he scored points out of it for one.

Jesus intentionally made it a priority to sit and eat with people who were, according to culture, the most sinful people and to love on these people.

Are you... are you saying that homophobes are the most sinful people in our culture? 'Cause, like, I wouldn't necessarily disagree that they make the list (though I wouldn't use the word "sinful"), but are you really sure you want to make this comparison?

Quote:

No, I wouldn't say it was 'disrespectful' of him not to take the photo, but can you not see the contrast?

Jesus sat with the people who were disregarded and often abused by society. Pretty sure Jesus would have considered Rick Santorum to be more in line with the Pharisees (and Jesus was definitely not a fan of the Pharisees, as we all know). So, no, there is no real contrast here. Rick Santorum is a judgmental hypocrite (i.e., Pharisee) not one of the maligned and abused of our society.

So, if Jesus was here, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be taking photos with Ricky, either.

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs

In a Christian majority country where they have all the institutional power, that's quite a feat!

Quote:

and cheered on by society,

Yes, Christians are cheered on by society. Thanks for admitting it.

Quote:

a stark contrast to anyone who utters a slander against islam.

LOL. Muslims are routinely harassed in America and are often the victims of hate crimes. They are mocked, have their religion continuously misrepresented, and women wearing the hijab are even more likely to be harassed. Also, let's not forget that the US has been bombing and terrorizing innocent Muslims in the Middle East for years now -- with no major outcry from our supposedly "Muslim loving" society.

Quote:

Compound that with someone happening to be born white and its just a double dose of societal hatred.

You're actually serious, aren't you? In that case, you forgot to mention being born male, straight, and cis, you poor little victim, you.

Edit: And you are disgusting, by the way, trying to claim you're "hated" by society because you're white when black people are being gunned down by police and whites are defending their murders.