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The New Wineskin's avatar

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Xiam
Boy, all kinds of complex. So where should we be chipping in, in regards to discussion? Hm...

That reminds me, I need to finish reading Bardo Thodol.

Hm. Well, the idea of all of these afterlives hinges upon the notion that the soul exists. So, I suppose a good discussion topic could be, "Does the soul exist? If so, what exactly is it?" We could also discuss whether or not there are exceptions to who goes to Heaven or Hell, or if certain entites go to Heaven or Hell regardless of actions. For example, we can discuss whether or not animals or infants can go to Heaven or Hell in Christianity due to their ignorance of the concept of religion. There can also be a discussion about whether or not the idea of specific afterlives contradict the nature of the deities that are implied by their existence. For instance, does Hell contradict the ideas of Ahura Mazda as being omnibenevolent and merciful in nature (although, in this example, it would be easy to argue that it doesn't, given that the opposing force has just as much power as He does)? If all else fails, we always have the good old fashion, "Which interpretation of Christian afterlife is sound?"

Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?

Fermionic
Sometimes, I like to pretend that Narnia is my afterlife.

Is the White Witch like Satan in modern Christian interpretations of Hell, then?
Admiral Dardanos's avatar

Hallowed Hunter

The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.
The New Wineskin's avatar

Conversationalist

Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.

Fair enough. Does the soul die, or is it transmigrated into the new body?
Xiam's avatar

Anxious Humorist

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The New Wineskin
Xiam
Boy, all kinds of complex. So where should we be chipping in, in regards to discussion? Hm...

That reminds me, I need to finish reading Bardo Thodol.

Hm. Well, the idea of all of these afterlives hinges upon the notion that the soul exists. So, I suppose a good discussion topic could be, "Does the soul exist? If so, what exactly is it?" We could also discuss whether or not there are exceptions to who goes to Heaven or Hell, or if certain entites go to Heaven or Hell regardless of actions. For example, we can discuss whether or not animals or infants can go to Heaven or Hell in Christianity due to their ignorance of the concept of religion. There can also be a discussion about whether or not the idea of specific afterlives contradict the nature of the deities that are implied by their existence. For instance, does Hell contradict the ideas of Ahura Mazda as being omnibenevolent and merciful in nature (although, in this example, it would be easy to argue that it doesn't, given that the opposing force has just as much power as He does)? If all else fails, we always have the good old fashion, "Which interpretation of Christian afterlife is sound?"

Meh, I'm sick of discussion over whether something is or isn't true. I'm starting to think "truth" is overrated.
I see a lot of information but what are we suppose to discuss here? Where are the arguments, where is the debate?
Admiral Dardanos's avatar

Hallowed Hunter

The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.

Fair enough. Does the soul die, or is it transmigrated into the new body?


I have no position on the existence of souls, nor any idea about of how the process would work.

For all intents and purposes, we would be an entirely different person. Or animal, or even plant, who knows.
CuAnnan's avatar

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metamary
Lucky~9~Lives
metamary
Lucky~9~Lives
Those who understand 'mutually' to mean 'reciprocally', and 'exclusive' to mean 'precluding of inclusion'.

Those are nothing but words.


Reciprocally: performed, experienced, or felt by both sides.
- emotion_hug

So?

Oh for ******** sake.
If samsara is correct, there is no heaven. By definition.
The only way they can "all be true" is if you, you personally, tell everyone on the planet "sorry, your religions are all wrong, but if I rape the ******** out of all of them and smush them together into a culturally incorrect but easier for me to access homogenous grey mush that has no nutritional or spiritual value, then they're all wrong in the same way, because only I know the truth".
Sound about right?
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The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.

Fair enough. Does the soul die, or is it transmigrated into the new body?

Difficult to say.
I don't have my books back from Donegal yet, keep meaning to do it but with no car it's really difficult, so I can't pull cites for this, but it is commonly held that the Gael believed in an Otherworld where, when you die here, you are born there, live a life, die and are born here.
Or, if you're really awesome, you join the Gods and live forever.
The New Wineskin's avatar

Conversationalist

Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.

Fair enough. Does the soul die, or is it transmigrated into the new body?


I have no position on the existence of souls, nor any idea about of how the process would work.

For all intents and purposes, we would be an entirely different person. Or animal, or even plant, who knows.

In what way would that be a rebirth? A rebirth implies that there is some semblence of you in there. Otherwise, you aren't actually you, and no rebirth has actually gone on.
The New Wineskin's avatar

Conversationalist

CuAnnan
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.

Fair enough. Does the soul die, or is it transmigrated into the new body?

Difficult to say.
I don't have my books back from Donegal yet, keep meaning to do it but with no car it's really difficult, so I can't pull cites for this, but it is commonly held that the Gael believed in an Otherworld where, when you die here, you are born there, live a life, die and are born here.
Or, if you're really awesome, you join the Gods and live forever.

Yes, moksha is for the truly awesome. cool

CuAnnan
If samsara is correct, there is no heaven. By definition.

That's not necessarily true. Samsara, by its very nature, can be liberated from. As such, the liberation can be Nirvana, moksha, or Heaven.

Kaworu 17
I see a lot of information but what are we suppose to discuss here? Where are the arguments, where is the debate?

A discussion doesn't require a debate. The argument is: x religion believes y about the afterlife.
metamary's avatar

Friend

CuAnnan
metamary
Lucky~9~Lives
metamary
Lucky~9~Lives
Those who understand 'mutually' to mean 'reciprocally', and 'exclusive' to mean 'precluding of inclusion'.

Those are nothing but words.


Reciprocally: performed, experienced, or felt by both sides.
- emotion_hug

So?

Oh for ******** sake.
If samsara is correct, there is no heaven. By definition.
The only way they can "all be true" is if you, you personally, tell everyone on the planet "sorry, your religions are all wrong, but if I rape the ******** out of all of them and smush them together into a culturally incorrect but easier for me to access homogenous grey mush that has no nutritional or spiritual value, then they're all wrong in the same way, because only I know the truth".
Sound about right?

Is it really that hard to believe that they're all right and wrong at the same time?
The New Wineskin's avatar

Conversationalist

metamary
CuAnnan
metamary
Lucky~9~Lives
metamary
Lucky~9~Lives
Those who understand 'mutually' to mean 'reciprocally', and 'exclusive' to mean 'precluding of inclusion'.

Those are nothing but words.


Reciprocally: performed, experienced, or felt by both sides.
- emotion_hug

So?

Oh for ******** sake.
If samsara is correct, there is no heaven. By definition.
The only way they can "all be true" is if you, you personally, tell everyone on the planet "sorry, your religions are all wrong, but if I rape the ******** out of all of them and smush them together into a culturally incorrect but easier for me to access homogenous grey mush that has no nutritional or spiritual value, then they're all wrong in the same way, because only I know the truth".
Sound about right?

Is it really that hard to believe that they're all right and wrong at the same time?

Yes, in the same way that it is hard to believe that truth and falsehoods are synonyms.
Admiral Dardanos's avatar

Hallowed Hunter

The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
The New Wineskin
Admiral Dardanos
I vote reincarnation.

Why? What kind of reincarnation? Is it samsara, or is it viewed more positively? Is karma involved? Is there liberation?


No specifics. I make no claims to knowledge on the matter. For some reason, reincarnation just makes sense to me.

Once we die, we are born into a new life. I don't know, I just like the thought.

Fair enough. Does the soul die, or is it transmigrated into the new body?


I have no position on the existence of souls, nor any idea about of how the process would work.

For all intents and purposes, we would be an entirely different person. Or animal, or even plant, who knows.

In what way would that be a rebirth? A rebirth implies that there is some semblence of you in there. Otherwise, you aren't actually you, and no rebirth has actually gone on.


That's actually reincarnation you're describing. It is quite different from reincarnation. I realize now I actually should have been using rebirth.

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/fairtibet/rebirth.html

What I was talking about is basically the Buddhist idea of rebirth minus the karmic imprint stuff.

Let me correct my original post.

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