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xXZirkannia's avatar

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stealthmongoose
xXZirkannia
stealthmongoose
I'd like to disagree with you formally on the statement here in red.

Here, i will provide two examples.


1. A human dad commands his obedient son to kill himself, and the child does. <---This person is a murderer or an accessory to murder.

2. A religion commands individuals to kill themselves as part of their doctrine, and they do. <---This doctrine is somehow innocent?


As a sidenote, may I inquire for a real world example of such doctrine?




That doctrine was admittedly also based on science fiction and various astrology type sciences. Apparently they thought they were the 2 prophets in Chapter 11 of the Book of Revelation.. This could not be so, as the 2 prophets are intended to spread God's message while the world is under the rule of the Antichrist. (A study of it can be found here. )

Also, although the Bible itself does not make any plain statements in regards to suicide, it certainly doesn't tell believers in Christ that they should go right out and do it.

And so I will agree that some religious doctrines play a part in things like this, it has more to do with the people who interpret it and carry out their actions based on an interpretation of the text. The text itself just exists.
M i L K chu__xx's avatar

Toothsome Phantom

stealthmongoose
M i L K chu__xx
      It never had a problem with Religion, more so the people who use it to get what they want in life. Including suppressing others because of their beliefs.

      My friend can't marry his gay lover who has been with him for 10 years because of religion. It holds so much back in the way of progress because people are still so attached to the idea of a god or gods out of fear of death and the unknown. It's very easy to simply put things in the hands of a god who is all powerful and say 'everything happens because of him' rather then be accountable for your own actions.

      Religion is also extremely outdated in most cases. And some rules and ideas are just now plain immoral. Some people believe that the man who recently killed all those children and teacher in the elementary school could still be saved if they pray for him enough. They also believe they can forgive him and others should to if her were still alive and accepted god. Which is sick. In this day and age if you kill someone; moreso a group of children, you are not a good person. You never will be regardless of what some god says.

      Religion is the main reason science is only as far as it is today. Without the dark ages which was just a simple matter of extrema religion suppression, we could and would perhaps be flying around in space. They also ignore facts and science in pure delusion. Hoping that somehow science is going to be wrong so they can get their way. People put dino bones in the ground to trick people....really?

      But all these things are not the fault of religion itself. Nope. It's the people who take those words and pull, press, and mold them to their liking. They gain money power and all else when they use the word religion. They bully people into their way of thinking. Scare children with horrible images and make them believe they are nothing without god(s). Then they demand money from their followers so those in charge get to rake in the money.

      There is hope, community, peace and love in religion. Good things that only come from that scene of togetherness. People in a church setting tend to be there for one another as long as greedy people don't get involve.

      I don't believe in god, or gods. I just take things as they are. And as long as religion isn't involved in my every day life and you keep it at home I commend and even encourage you to do what ever you wish! Good for you! But really...get the hell out of my public spaces with your crazy booklet, your demands for religious icons in parks, your fear for the unknown and the new in terms of old tradition at the expense of someoneelses happiness. And for god(s) sake! Stay out of my lady bits!



I'd like to disagree with you formally on the statement here in red.

Here, i will provide two examples.


1. A human dad commands his obedient son to kill himself, and the child does. <---This person is a murderer or an accessory to murder.

2. A religion commands individuals to kill themselves as part of their doctrine, and they do. <---This doctrine is somehow innocent?

      A very fair point and you are right. In these cases it can be the fault of religion. Though the only issue I see is the how these people interpret their religions readings. As this alone can have a huge impact on what it's followers do. For a low example, there is no pope in the bible. Anywhere. No where can you find any example of a leader besides a saint or simple teacher who is appointed by god to rule over his 'religion' The church made up the pope, and he does his job well since 99% of the time he is unable to do anything besides rake in money and demand new creeds. In this context the followers themselves CHANGED the religion to suit their needs. The religion itself did not command for a pope to be appointed. It would be like a child writing on the bottom of the class rules 'Johnny get's to punch the teacher' and since no one saw him do it it's then decided that it just 'is' and the rule is respected. The class is not responsible for the 'rule' and should not be at fault. And the class itself is fully acceptable in every other rule. This then turns to the fault of those who wrote it. Johnny. The blame then when the teacher is punched should not be on the class but on one person.

      So I still do not blame religion for any murders that take place. For me the blame lies with those who misinterpret the writings, readings and actions of others in the religion. As in most cases these people are crazy. As all scriptures of religion are written by mortal hands as someone who is not religious I never look at the religion itself as the cause rather the person with the pen writing these horrible things as the one responsible. Also please remember this is a huge difference between religion and a cult.

      Sorry..I'm not sure if that made ANY sense....
Intellectual dishonesty is what bothers me, not religion.

It's just that I think there's a strong correlation between intellectual dishonesty and religious believers. That's not to say that I think all religious people are intellectually dishonest, but I wouldn't hesitate to say that I think most are intellectually dishonest.

It's also not flawed thinking that bothers me either or holding an opinion that is false. Because I am able to have flawed thinking as well and I most definitely currently hold opinions that are false. But like I said, what bothers me is when people are clearly shown that their beliefs are either false or inconsistent/contradictory with other beliefs they hold and they will not accept that. That is what bothers me personally, and like I said I find this most commonly among people who are religious.

Another thing that bothers me about religion is not the religion itself, but the way people treat religion. It bothers me that it's taboo to criticize or even argue with people over religious beliefs in our culture. At least here in the U.S. it is, I'm not sure how it is in other countries. But here in the U.S. most people cling to the idea that it's rude to even discuss religion in any format that involves debate/argumentation. It bothers me again, because I think this stems from intellectually dishonesty because it seems to me a case of clear special pleading. It's perfectly okay to argue with people over politics and just about every other type of beliefs people hold, it's perfectly okay to criticize people's beliefs and explain why you think their beliefs are false or derived from faulty thinking. However when it comes to religion, not only are we shamed for arguing with people over it, we're all supposed to pretend that religious arguments are logical when clearly they are not logical. And if the same form of argumentation was given in any other context besides religion, people would immediately point out the laundry list of logical fallacies, but when it comes to religion "Well it's faith" and somehow we're supposed to not point out that faith is irrational.

To be honest it's this kind of stuff that gets under my skin, it's the fact that you cannot challenge people's religious beliefs that bothers me. It's the exact same reason why political correctness bothers me. I mean hey, if you believe in X and you think X is true, why are you so afraid of somebody challenging your belief? The fact that you're sensitive to criticism and afraid of a debate makes me think that you know deep down that something is not right with that belief or the method in which you came to that belief.

If it wasn't taboo to criticize religion, and if there wasn't a correlation between intellectual dishonesty and religious people, then I honestly would have nothing negative to say about religion. It's just those two main things that I do not like.
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Henry Hobo-Master
It sometimes isn't religion, and it isn't God.

Its the morons who are following that religion. Its the things they say, and the things they do, which ultimately defiles anything respectable about that religion.


This times a million.

The most hateful, narrow-minded, greedy, down-right mean humans I know claim they are all- wait for it- Christians. I work in a very "Christian" area and I constantly hear the most disgusting things coming out of the most "pious" mouths; every Sunday I have to work is an adventure in not throwing something at someone because I am still hearing the n-word over the election, being told that it's the gay people's fault for fill-in-the-blank and that no, no one wants to even give a quarter to help the poor in the area because it's their fault, their money is too important for such matters, etc, etc.

I have come to dread the holidays because certain ones really bring the mean ones out. I got a dressing down over asking a local CHURCH PASTOR if he wanted to donate a DOLLAR to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital for Christmas. Oh, he really let me have it over that. You want to know the kicker? He was buying pills that were for helping him to get it up- and my favorite part was that he paid in all ones and fives. I am not saying he dipped into the donation plate to pay for his very important sixty-dollar goodies but I have been paid like that before by other pastors or people that work in churches and have been told that's where they got the money. Even if they are lying (and I really want to think they are lying) I still thought lying was a no-no according to the Bible. I guess it doesn't count when it's a Christian doing the lying, though.

I worked at a bookstore for six years. I can tell you by the books that someone is buying if they would be willing to donate whenever we did any kind of charity work, how hateful their comments were going to be in regards to said work, and if I was going to be berated and talked down to, preached at or sent to hell by someone talking for their God. I am agnostic, you see. Being agnostic in an area like this means getting harassed on a damn near daily basis about other people's angry imaginary beings. I believe in something kind and generous and forgiving and non-judgmental. I want the Christians to be wrong simply because their God seems so hateful and cruel.

I have gotten to the point of wanting to avoid anyone who calls themselves a Christian on an instinctive level. This is behavior I have witnessed since being a child so it's not just this area or the times- after a few Psychology classes in college I am beginning to think it is people acting badly because they feel they have some kind of moral superiority over others. At least that is what I tell myself to try to feel better about things because I truly do not want to believe that most of the religions out there are what they appear thanks to their follower's actions and words.

So no, it's not God or religions I have issues with. Having faith is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Being hateful, mean, racist and cruel and saying it's okay because your God wants you to be that way is definitely not, however. That's just using an excuse to be a total jerk.
nobounce the 2nd's avatar

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Water of Fenri
When you say you are against Religion, are you against religion itself? Or are you against believing in God/following Him? I'm curious.


depends on the person, could be each of these on their own, together, or for completely different reason
Lungwort's avatar

Dapper Dabbler

I'm not sure if I'd call myself 'anti-religious', though it's hard not to get angry at it sometimes.

I think it's both, for the most part. Religion itself isn't very good. Richard Dawkins said "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." Of course, if there weren't people who believed in it, it wouldn't be a problem, it would just be mythology.

It's because of both religion and religious people that problems occur (i.e. no teaching evolution in public schools). It's not that people misunderstand what the bible or whatever text they've got says, either. The Westboro Baptist Church follows the bible and they're bat**** crazy to most people.

sorry if anything is wrong, I'm no expert on religions. orz;;
Lungwort
I think it's both, for the most part. Religion itself isn't very good. Richard Dawkins said "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." Of course, if there weren't people who believed in it, it wouldn't be a problem, it would just be mythology.

It's because of both religion and religious people that problems occur (i.e. no teaching evolution in public schools). It's not that people misunderstand what the bible or whatever text they've got says, either. The Westboro Baptist Church follows the bible and they're bat**** crazy to most people.

sorry if anything is wrong, I'm no expert on religions. orz;;


Not all religions are anti-science.
To be honest, what really gets on my nerves about religion is the fact that they're ancient and do not match modern day standards of ethics and morality. Yet, the Bible is still called the "good book", and us Atheists are looked at as not even having the potential to be moral.

A book that doesn't even condemn slavery has no right being called an authority on morality. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. And that's just one of many things wrong with the Bible and morality.

So, that's really what I'm against. Also, I'm sick of prejudice against others being disguised as morality and a "deeply-held religious belief". It's a combination that can only be met by religion's unique position in society. It's placed on such a high pedestal,

There are other things that really bother me about religion, but it is those two that make me a strong anti-theist.
Everlasting Radiance
To be honest, what really gets on my nerves about religion is the fact that they're ancient and do not match modern day standards of ethics and morality.


Not all religions are ancient.
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

religion manipulates
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

Everlasting Radiance
To be honest, what really gets on my nerves about religion is the fact that they're ancient and do not match modern day standards of ethics and morality. Yet, the Bible is still called the "good book", and us Atheists are looked at as not even having the potential to be moral.

A book that doesn't even condemn slavery has no right being called an authority on morality. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. And that's just one of many things wrong with the Bible and morality.

So, that's really what I'm against. Also, I'm sick of prejudice against others being disguised as morality and a "deeply-held religious belief". It's a combination that can only be met by religion's unique position in society. It's placed on such a high pedestal,

There are other things that really bother me about religion, but it is those two that make me a strong anti-theist.
deeply held just means their head is deep in their a** whee

but anyways lol itd be magnificent if religion ceased. Mythologies reflect the groups nature tat held those mythologies. Technically history could replace mythologies because its truth, but then what history would we look at? If we focus on societal history we still promote society, unless we understand it to the point of not needing it or having an alternative for it. Im very against bias yet I have my own bias. Society isnt all bad, but its foundations are worse than it. Perhaps it was needed, but the major element of society is still there, and thats corruption. When I looked up different groups and their mythologies the ones that did human or animal sacrifice liked war more, and their myths were less nature oriented, more about heroes and gods and monsters, they also all had more permanent structures that impeded on nature more, and were more hierachical. Society still has an invisible hierarchy.
Lucky~9~Lives
Everlasting Radiance
To be honest, what really gets on my nerves about religion is the fact that they're ancient and do not match modern day standards of ethics and morality.


Not all religions are ancient.


Of course not. However, the ancient ones are always the ones that are the most deeply ingrained in cultures around the world and have great power over law and society.
Peppermint Coca's avatar

Shapeshifter

I am against organized religion. I think it's ridiculous that people are so brainwashed into performing absurd rituals and believing that they have to live their lives according to a set of rules. I really do believe that to be one of these people your IQ has to be under a certain number. Seriously, people need to form their own beliefs, not just mindlessly obey their church/place of worship. And the churches/whatevers are making millions off of it. If there's a God, he doesn't need money. Idiots.
I'm agnostic and I'm not against the idea of there being a higher power/powers. It's just the fact that people take it so seriously and don't think for themselves.
GunsmithKitten's avatar

Aged Lunatic

Peppermint Coca
And the churches/whatevers are making millions off of it. If there's a God, he doesn't need money. Idiots..


skip to the two minute mark for the bit

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