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X sansmerci's avatar

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I advocate for feminism. I also try to be actively anti-racist and support social justice; things that are very much intertwined with feminism, since nobody is *just* female, but that I feel I still need to specifically mention since there is a widespread misconception that being a feminist means only caring about white middle class women, and excluding all other groups from your advocacy.

So that's a thing that I guess bugs me. That there are people who purport to support feminism while holding some really disturbing ideas about class and race and that people will assume that anyone who calls her or him self a feminist is saying "I do not give a s**t about the issues of anyone else" (I can't even estimate the number of times I've personally seen someone respond to the subject of feminism by attacking anyone who says they are feminist that {the feminist} has their priorities wrong because they are not talking about {other, usually "third world", injustice} at that moment.)

And, you know, all this MRA backlash is pretty gross. Like rape culture wasn't enough, we get misogyny masquerading as activism so MRAs can call women harpies with impunity.

I dunno, I'd need some spoons to form a cohesive post, it's such a huge topic.
CleoSombra's avatar

Quotable Lunatic

X sansmerci
I advocate for feminism. I also try to be actively anti-racist and support social justice; things that are very much intertwined with feminism, since nobody is *just* female, but that I feel I still need to specifically mention since there is a widespread misconception that being a feminist means only caring about white middle class women, and excluding all other groups from your advocacy.

So that's a thing that I guess bugs me. That there are people who purport to support feminism while holding some really disturbing ideas about class and race and that people will assume that anyone who calls her or him self a feminist is saying "I do not give a s**t about the issues of anyone else" (I can't even estimate the number of times I've personally seen someone respond to the subject of feminism by attacking anyone who says they are feminist that {the feminist} has their priorities wrong because they are not talking about {other, usually "third world", injustice} at that moment.)

And, you know, all this MRA backlash is pretty gross. Like rape culture wasn't enough, we get misogyny masquerading as activism so MRAs can call women harpies with impunity.

I dunno, I'd need some spoons to form a cohesive post, it's such a huge topic.


I think you raise some really good points about intersectionality. Nobody is just female - but unfortunately, in many feminist discourse, it often relates only to white middle class heterosexual female feminists. The white groups don't understand the blacks, the straights distance themselves from the lesbians, the middle class doesn't understand the plight of the working class. Audre Lorde writer on this.

This isn't an issue unique to feminism, though, but of every movement out there. People always end up overlooking or rejecting the issues that they themselves don't experience. I just recently read an article (~1980) by Anna Nietogomez on Chicana feminism, and she was talking about how the Chicano movement often boils down to the Chicano men's movement because a main focus is in fighting for economic power for men . . . but not for women.

Regarding the men's rights activism . . . I feel conflicted.

On the one hand, I don't want to do what society did to the original women's rights movement, which was to label it radical, man-hating, and deviant. I recognize that men have unique issues facing them and unique inequalities - there's a real problem with boys doing worse and school and more women graduating from college. There's a real problem with women being favored in child custody battles and men paying a disproportionate amount of alimony.

At the same time, what I have read about and by the MRA does not make me comfortable and I don't agree with many of its tenets. Much of the discourse seems to be rejecting not only feminism, but men's own liberation - a rejection of homosexuality, feminine qualities in men, etc.

From what I read on some MRA forums, a lot of what I read is about how awful women are and awful things they've done. I wasn't around for when second-wave feminism was taking off, so I don't know what individual feminists were saying, but I've yet to read any article by a major feminist writer that has torn down men.
Miss-dark8607
Akina
A friend and I were discussing the other night how feminists have ruined the men of our generation. We agreed that while women have risen up and changed their views, mentality, and their desirable roles in our culture (moving away from the home and being more prominent in the workplace), that men haven't really followed suit so much on the paradigm. We've found that it's given a lot of guys an excuse to be lazy, underachievers, wanting to sit around and play video games and coast along in life riding on their girlfriends/wives' incomes.


The problem is while women are allowed to break traditional gender roles men aren't. We had this dicussion in a lot of my Early Childcare classes how we don't see a lot of men in that field because society thinks it wrong for men to care for small children and there's little to no help for single dads in non-metro cities. So yeah let's not blame women but society as a whole for this. Without the feminists of yesterday please believe you wouldn't have the right to express yourself as such or much else. Feminism isn't a dirty game.


Part of the reason you don't see too many men working with young children is society now feels uncomfortable with a grown man near small children he's not related to. ***** often comes to people's mind here despite the fact most child molestation happens within the family.
Akina

I'm all for the gals that allowed us the right to vote, work outside the home, and be seen as individuals that can contribute to society. I'm saying that the feminists of our generation have taken things beyond what our predecessors had intended, and the ideals have become warped and twisted. Women are not entitled to special rights any more than men are, and yet we are. You stated yourself some of the privileges women have over men. In addition, the court is heavily biased towards women in custody battles. I'm not blaming women, or I'd be blaming myself. I am saying that the current feminist movement is an issue. Feminists do not have to be women, there are male feminists.

The answer is not to downplay the role of a man and put women on a pedestal. By doing that you are keeping the same gender inequality issue, but simply reversing which gender is seen as prominent. If men believe their role is less valuable to society than their female counterparts, what would motivate them to work hard or believe they can achieve anything great? This is the issue my friend and I were discussing. We are tired of seeing men our age being unmotivated.


Actually most feminist do support men having more rights when it comes to custody battles and other such rights for men.
Miss-dark8607's avatar

Dangerous Visionary

Sullen BabyDoll05
Miss-dark8607
Akina
A friend and I were discussing the other night how feminists have ruined the men of our generation. We agreed that while women have risen up and changed their views, mentality, and their desirable roles in our culture (moving away from the home and being more prominent in the workplace), that men haven't really followed suit so much on the paradigm. We've found that it's given a lot of guys an excuse to be lazy, underachievers, wanting to sit around and play video games and coast along in life riding on their girlfriends/wives' incomes.


The problem is while women are allowed to break traditional gender roles men aren't. We had this dicussion in a lot of my Early Childcare classes how we don't see a lot of men in that field because society thinks it wrong for men to care for small children and there's little to no help for single dads in non-metro cities. So yeah let's not blame women but society as a whole for this. Without the feminists of yesterday please believe you wouldn't have the right to express yourself as such or much else. Feminism isn't a dirty game.


Part of the reason you don't see too many men working with young children is society now feels uncomfortable with a grown man near small children he's not related to. ***** often comes to people's mind here despite the fact most child molestation happens within the family.


That and we can't get into people's heads that women can be ***** as well. Just because its grossly under-reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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Mayor Gravity's avatar

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X sansmerci
I advocate for feminism. I also try to be actively anti-racist and support social justice; things that are very much intertwined with feminism, since nobody is *just* female, but that I feel I still need to specifically mention since there is a widespread misconception that being a feminist means only caring about white middle class women, and excluding all other groups from your advocacy.

So that's a thing that I guess bugs me. That there are people who purport to support feminism while holding some really disturbing ideas about class and race and that people will assume that anyone who calls her or him self a feminist is saying "I do not give a s**t about the issues of anyone else" (I can't even estimate the number of times I've personally seen someone respond to the subject of feminism by attacking anyone who says they are feminist that {the feminist} has their priorities wrong because they are not talking about {other, usually "third world", injustice} at that moment.)

And, you know, all this MRA backlash is pretty gross. Like rape culture wasn't enough, we get misogyny masquerading as activism so MRAs can call women harpies with impunity.

I dunno, I'd need some spoons to form a cohesive post, it's such a huge topic.
What do you mean by "Just female"?

and, I feel stupid but what's MRA?
Mayor Gravity's avatar

Questionable Borg

cxicookiemonster81
ok so march celebrations? whats tht ive never herd of tht!!! why cant any body explain anything to meeehhh!!!omg finn!
Maybe because you can't type like a human being?

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