.:| The Naruto Spoiler Thread |:.

[ChristandJackel]

Doc makes a lot of logical sense. Honestly the only conclusion I can come up with is that he either never thought enough of Pein to research him... or he felt Itachi's body was an "easier" catch as opposed to the figurehead that was Pein.

As for the main argument, I've changed my opinion. After thinking about it for a while and redoing my post a couple times, I have to agree with Doc in that Orochimaru would lose against Pein. If he were to fight him, he'd probably fall victim to the same trap that Jiraiya (and most likely Hanzo) fell into. Unlike Jiraiya however, Orochimaru would have very little to work with against him. If Orochimaru were to win, he'd have to have the same knowledge as Naruto did during his fight. If that was the case then Orochimaru would honestly have a much greater chance at victory.

@ Doc: How is Itachi overcoming Nagato in every way during their fight not considered a victory on his part? Even Kabuto understood just how serious the difference was in their abilities.

[Qyp]

Jiraiya is the strongest... and remember how a few times he actually used his pervertedness as a means to spy? Like how he pretended he was just an old man perving, and talking some ladies up... but really he was getting some nice information that helped him in his investigations...

Everything he did had a good reason too it... I believe he was just improving his stealth by perving at ladies.

He kept himself from being slack as a Shinobi.

I believe if Jiraiya could hold his own against Pain WITHOUT knowing until it was too late what the Six Paths of Pain were... I would say Orochimaru doesn't stand a chance.

The only reason Naruto won... is because he basically had all the intelligence of the whole freaking village on his side. He was told what each Path did... And then just had to beat them down in the right order.

Sasuke only won against Orochimaru and Itachi because they were both in weakened states... though Itachi did "give up" once Sasuke was free of Orochimaru and the Curse Seal.

Orochimaru is intelligent yes... but honestly... he was far too full of himself, to take Pain seriously... like Kabuto doesn't take Sasuke and Itachi seriously... He thinks he has already won...

[Rinkimekuta]

doc olden

OK, let me clarify:

1. Pain was the leader of Akatsuki when Orochimaru was in it; this incarnation of Akatsuki was never lead by anyone else.

2. CJ thinks he could have taken Pain out since 1) Orochi was a smart and crafty man and 2) Pain was a bad fighter. That said, if he could do that, why even bother going for Itachi's body to fulfill his goal of obtaining all techniques if Pain was one stop shopping?

3. If he really knew the Sharingan could turn into Rinnegan, then it's inconceivable he also couldn't know that the Rinnegan could regenerate its user through ample absorption of chakra via its Preta Path.

In conclusion, NO I don't think Orochimaru knew of Pain's true form; NO I don't think he could've ultimately beaten Itachi, and NO I don't think he could have beaten Pain.

1. The ******** you gettin that information from?
2. Are we speaking of Pain as in those ******** who attacked the village or Nagato as in the one controlling the ******** attacking the village...because yeah if Orochimaru knew of and attacked NAGATO he would have done this no problem....
3. refer to 1.
4. Of course he couldn't beat Itachi...pretty sure he stated he tried going after Itachi's body and failed. To me that says "I went after Itachi that b***h beat my a** so I came back to my lair and cried a little but I wasn't really crying it was allergies and I had just stubbed my toe and Kabuto was wearing that one stuff...Remember when you was wearing that stuff Kabuto and my eyes started watering and it look like I was crying but I wasn't but it looked like I was remember that?"

[doc olden]

When was Akatsuki ever lead by someone other than Pain?

Also, I say he can't beat Itachi not so you guys could bash him but to realize that ultimately not even Itachi could hope to beat Pain. Just as I had to recognize that Orochimaru could not beat Itachi simply because of the latter's eyes, so also must you guys recognize that when it comes to eyes Pain's are simply better. As I always say, in them lie the fullness of the ninja world, and just because neither Pain nor any other current Rinnegan-wielder seems to have exploited them to their fullest doesn't mean they cannot or could not. Pain had every right to call himself a god, because to most he was a god. He had control over heavenly forces, the elements, and even life and death. Simply because Itachi could seal him does not mean he could beat him.

You must what you say, you see, for to beat someone means you actually bested them, which Itachi did not. How could any of you think Pain could be bested by Itachi when you consider:

1) Pain's Preta Path itself is able to absorb chakra, which both Itachi's Totsuka Sword and the Susanoo that wields it are made of. Draining one means draining the other. On top of that we all know Itachi has a rather unimpressive chakra supply, as compared to the man who was able to snuff out Konoha with one blow. What's more, he could've removed the soul that bound Itachi's body to the impure world via the Human World and stored it in the King of Hell to deal with at his leisure. Just a thought.

2) He was fighting two other highly-powered people at the time

3) He was fighting outside of his element of six bodies and 12 eyes, as he was puppeteered by a jackass. Kabuto only had the King of Hell and the invisible chameleon fighting alongside Pain, half of the eyes he normally employs. Furthermore, Kabuto stupidly cursed Nagato and his "slow mobility" despite the fact Pain had just completely rejuvenated himself with both Naruto and Bee's tailed beast chakra! But no one talks about that...

Itachi's move by and large probably couldn't or wouldn't reach Pain given his Heaven and Preta Path's abilities. Genjutsu also likely won't work given the potency of the Rinnegan and Pain's own experience with the ninja world, because he is older than Itachi and has at least a comparable amount of experience as Itachi. Given this info, how could any of you think he could not beat Itachi?

[Azriel_eph210]

So, reading through these posts, a thought came to mind. That scroll that Suigetsu found in Orochimaru's secret lab...what if it actually details how to progress from the sharingan to the rinnegan? I mean, that would explain why he never tried to do experiments on Pain and his fascination with the Uchiha brothers... That would also explain Suigetsu's comment that it could turn the tide of the war... (something tells me that someone in this thread already suggested this idea...)

**looks around suspiciously**

[doc olden]

Yep, that has been speculated. It'd certainly back up my belief that for Sasuke to face Naruto he'd needs the Rinnegan for it's historically been the only thing shown capable of shutting down tailed beast power

[ChristandJackel]

All I can say is that we will just have to agree to disagree and point out the way the fight went:

Nagato owned Naruto and B
Itachi saved Naruto and B
Nagato used Bakudo Tenin (w/e)
Naruto, B, and Itachi countered
Itachi uses ruble as smoke screen to take out Nagato

We can sit and debate on who had more firepower and how theoretically one character had a higher disposition to win. But at the end of the day, Nagato is no longer a moving player thanks solely to Itachi's interaction with him. You can sit and argue semantics over killing someone, which is technically impossible considering Nagato was an immortal zombie, and sealing them, which is all Itachi could logically do to keep someone as powerful as Nagato or any other immortal zombie from being immortal, but again at the end of the day Itachi is still here and Nagato is not.

[doc olden]

ChristandJackel

and sealing them, which is all Itachi could logically do to keep someone as powerful as Nagato

My point exactly.

[Rinkimekuta]

So yeah, to change the subject because this one is........boring...

I'm kinda sensing a spin-off from the Naruto series. I just don't know what a good one would be. So what do you guys think a good spin off would be? And who should get the spin off...Should there be new characters in a different part of the world? Should it pull an Avatar: The last airbender and move towards the future? What do you guys think?

[doc olden]

I think it should just end after this. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd like a spinoff, especially with all of the flack many of the Shounen Jump series are getting courtesy of their considerable length and overpowered protagonists.

[Azriel_eph210]

Eh, the only two characters that I think would be interesting enough to give spin-offs to would be Gaara and Kakashi...but since most of their stories have been covered in the main series, i don't know how long/interesting those spin-offs would be.

On another note, I'm definitely not looking forward to the void that will be left when Naruto and Bleach end...thank goodness for One Piece! ...guess I'll bump Fairy Tail up a level... Still, a new, unknown ninja story placed in the future (after Naruto has kids and such) does sound kinda interesting...

[PotionsPet]

doc olden

I think it should just end after this. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd like a spinoff, especially with all of the flack many of the Shounen Jump series are getting courtesy of their considerable length and overpowered protagonists.

That's what makes them awesome. Sometimes laughable, but if you can't crack a giggle at your fandom and the thing it's based on, you need to gtfo of it.

Just the way I see it.. and I have had more than my share of laughs at the source material, myself for how it sounds/looks to an outsider/ other fans/ Deep Fans, and all others.


I like the world. Even if it were completely unrelated to Naruto & co's storyline. It would be cool for more to happen in it. Even if it were just a mini-series type thing with small unrelated adventures.

[Depressed_Blue_Penguin]

Azriel_eph210

So, reading through these posts, a thought came to mind. That scroll that Suigetsu found in Orochimaru's secret lab...what if it actually details how to progress from the sharingan to the rinnegan? I mean, that would explain why he never tried to do experiments on Pain and his fascination with the Uchiha brothers... That would also explain Suigetsu's comment that it could turn the tide of the war... (something tells me that someone in this thread already suggested this idea...)

**looks around suspiciously**

I'm pretty sure I posted that forever ago. lol

I think that Sasuke will get the Rinnegan, and so will Naruto.

I mean, Suigetsu implied that the scroll would benefit sasuke...

Considering that Itachi is about to teach Sasuke a new Sharingan technique... I doubt it would be just another Sharingan technique - that'd be too tacky and unbelievable.

It has to be something different... like awakening the Rinnegan, or maybe how to control bijuu with the sharingan.

As for Naruto, I think it would be interesting if Sasuke kills him, and awakens the Rinnegan, and the Nine Tails gets extracted, along with Bee's at some point... and then Sakura uses Chiyo-Sama's sacrifice/revival jutsu to sacrifice herself and revive Naruto... who then uses manga hax to get the Rinnegan, and he and Sasuke have to combine the power of the Uchiha and Uzumaki... and I give up. this got too far out of hand. lmfao

[Depressed_Blue_Penguin]

Rinkimekuta

So yeah, to change the subject because this one is........boring...

I'm kinda sensing a spin-off from the Naruto series. I just don't know what a good one would be. So what do you guys think a good spin off would be? And who should get the spin off...Should there be new characters in a different part of the world? Should it pull an Avatar: The last airbender and move towards the future? What do you guys think?

I posted a few days ago, that I think a spin-off about Kakashi's adventures, encountering various shinobi and using his sharingan to memorize 1,000 jutsus, would be super interesting.

But I doubt it would happen. :/

[Depressed_Blue_Penguin]

I'm really bummed that we didn't get to see Suigetsu's older brother fight... he supposedly could wield all of the legendary swords, right?

It would be cool if Suigetsu got all of the swords and after the war is over, and we see the flash to the future... we see Suigetsu as part of whatever village, giving sword lessons to young shinobi or something. heh heh

Also, I feel like Tsunade has to die, to follow the trend of instructors dying and passing on the Will of Fire... plus the other 2 Sannin died.

Oh, and I think Guy-Sensei is Rock Lee's dad. lmfao

Shino was super underplayed as a character. :/ He was my favorite shinobi in the first part of the Naruto series. Also its weird that Tobi was all afraid of his bug jutsu, saying it was his weakness or something, but then they never went into more detail about that, really... even when that one root bug dude fought him.
hmm... yep, I think that's it for now.