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Hot damn, now we get to find out what exactly caused the Shiba family to be screwed.

Now I am really looking forward to next week. emotion_dowant
Here's something I've wanted to say earlier: I believe the dangerous hollow in question might be Metastacia, the hollow that ended up killing Kaien. I think this because whenever the Shiba come up in context Kaien's death comes to mind. That, and the villainous trio were doing recon on whatever they were trying to force hollowfication on - which, by the way I think was an error given Aizen has not nor should have logically tried to force hollowfication on a hollow - which sounds familiar to what Aizen was telling/revealing to Rukia when they were on Sokyoku Hill about how he tried to make hollows that were more shinigami-like.

Another reason this sounds viable to me is that it could explain why Isshin lost his powers: one of Metastacia's abilities was to destroy the zanpakuto of the shinigami that touched the tentacles on his back. While I personally have held the belief that although the zanpakuto was unusable for a time it would equally in time regenerate, there's no indication it would given the only person who was shown being in this dilemma died in the fight with Metastacia. Also, this presumption of mine hinges on the idea that Isshin would have ended up touching Metastacia's tentacles despite almost undoubtedly being briefed on such a possibility by Captain Ukitake who was there to watch the fight between Kaien and Metastacia. It'd also assume this happened in the real world after he met Masaki, so now I'm (not) so sure.

Anyways, what if by the time this did all happen, Kaien was dead from fighting Metastacia. Isshin is depowered and stripped of his rank and privileges. He goes off to marry Masaki, possibly actually being the cause for his ouster backed by his lack of power from fighting Metastacia. Isshin and Masaki have Ichigo...Perhaps Ichigo is Kaien's spirit reincarnated...

Adventuring Streaker

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doc olden
Here's something I've wanted to say earlier: I believe the dangerous hollow in question might be Metastacia, the hollow that ended up killing Kaien. I think this because whenever the Shiba come up in context Kaien's death comes to mind. That, and the villainous trio were doing recon on whatever they were trying to force hollowfication on - which, by the way I think was an error given Aizen has not nor should have logically tried to force hollowfication on a hollow - which sounds familiar to what Aizen was telling/revealing to Rukia when they were on Sokyoku Hill about how he tried to make hollows that were more shinigami-like.

Another reason this sounds viable to me is that it could explain why Isshin lost his powers: one of Metastacia's abilities was to destroy the zanpakuto of the shinigami that touched the tentacles on his back. While I personally have held the belief that although the zanpakuto was unusable for a time it would equally in time regenerate, there's no indication it would given the only person who was shown being in this dilemma died in the fight with Metastacia. Also, this presumption of mine hinges on the idea that Isshin would have ended up touching Metastacia's tentacles despite almost undoubtedly being briefed on such a possibility by Captain Ukitake who was there to watch the fight between Kaien and Metastacia. It'd also assume this happened in the real world after he met Masaki, so now I'm (not) so sure.

Anyways, what if by the time this did all happen, Kaien was dead from fighting Metastacia. Isshin is depowered and stripped of his rank and privileges. He goes off to marry Masaki, possibly actually being the cause for his ouster backed by his lack of power from fighting Metastacia. Isshin and Masaki have Ichigo...Perhaps Ichigo is Kaien's spirit reincarnated...


I always thought people were crazy whenever they said that. But with your explanation, this is the first time I'm actually considering that it just might be true. emotion_kirakira

Yui Ichijo's Husbando

Fuzzy Fatcat

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Wait wait wait
So that might explain why Ichigo looks so much like Kaien..
I'm guessing Isshin is Kukaku's, Kaien's, and Ganju's brother?
So does that make Ganju/Kukaku his uncle/aunt?
//can't comprehend

Gambino Cultist

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doc olden
Perhaps Ichigo is Kaien's spirit reincarnated...


Wouldn't that be impossible since Kaien's soul was devoured by the hollow? It would be cool though if that is what happened though.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Hollow's main ability was consuming spirits/other hollows and stealing their abilities. The reason Kaien's death seemed so gruesome wasn't only because of the body horror going as it consumed him, but because his soul would never find rest once it became part of a Hollow.
I'm putting the Ichigo/Kaien similarity down to genetics. Assuming spirits have genes and DNA...
I've been thinking Isshin was an uncle to Kaien, Kukaku and Ganju. Physical appearance sets them too far apart (though I realise Isshin was a lot younger in appearance as a Captain) and it seems really unlikely that he's their father. Though seeing the Shiba siblings as Ichigo's step-brothers and sister would be funny.
The fact that Isshin looks younger in this flashback means that whatever kind of Gigai he has been using ages (unlike the Vizards' similarly long term Gigais). This and the fact that it allows him to reproduce make me one of the people that believe it's one of Urahara's special Gigais that turn the user human over time. But the fact that he got his powers back makes me wonder what exactly the Hogyoku did to him, since Urahara seemed pretty confident that he could hide it in Rukia's Gigai without the same thing happening to her.
You think the Hogyouku had something to do with Isshin's regeneration? I guess if he was around Rukia enough that lame excuse of a retcon that it could manifest the desire of the hearts able to make their dreams come true would suffice, but wouldn't that have manifested long before Grand Fisher reappeared? Orihime and Chad both developed their power during the series' formative period, back when hollows were scary and the only other person you could call a shinigami besides Ichigo was Rukia. Speaking of Rukia, the reason, if anything, she didn't get her power back because the gigai Urahara never did hand to her was supposed to turn her into a normal human. That and she didn't desire to be restrengthened because she didn't know her power was being drained.

As far as allowing shinigami to reproduce like humans, I wouldn't necessarily say that. Gigai only served to preserve the shinigami's power while in the living world; shinigami are nothing more than deceased humans, deceased humans which are still able to reproduce. That said, I don't see Urahara having gigai enabling the shinigami therein to reproduce. He's not that magical.

However, Guest, your latest post make me think that Isshin was indeed given one of Urahara's gigai that turns shinigami into human since it could account for his powerlessness from there on out.
doc olden
However, Guest, your latest post make me think that Isshin was indeed given one of Urahara's gigai that turns shinigami into human since it could account for his powerlessness from there on out.

I always thought that was how Ichigo and his sisters came to be or was that another one of those "facts" that were hinted and implied but not confirmed?
You always thought that that was how Ichigo et al. came to be because the gigai enables reproduction, or something else?
doc olden
You always thought that that was how Ichigo et al. came to be because the gigai enables reproduction, or something else?

A special modified gigai that prohibits detection and turns a Shinigami into a human -- that's what I always thought what Urahara gave to Isshin.

Because babies. You'd think someone that would later surround himself with children would relate to Isshin and Masaki's desire for children hence why Urahara possibly built a gigai suitable for the task.
But as I said there'd be no need for it since shinigami are still human, just deceased. They don't need gigai (and limiters, if that also might be on your mind) to interact with the human world, but so they don't adversely affect it. They shouldn't need a gigai to do what's natural for the body to do.

If this topic has been brought up before, it's truly been either implied or danced around.

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My point on the topic of reproduction was that Isshin was a Shinigami (spirit) and Masaki was a Quincy (living human). I know spirits can reproduce with spirits, but I don't think a spirit could impregnate a physical body. The point of a gigai isn't just to be a resting place for a Shinigami when on a mission in the human world, but also to allow them to interact with humans. It seems likely that they would need a physical body like a gigai for Spirit-human interactions like sex

Thirteenth Pumpkin

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So. Gentlemen and women. I am back. After over a year, I believe. Or something damn near close to that.

Holy shat.

I CALLED IT. Isshin is a Shiba. In fact, many people called that. My brother and I called it; Masaki wasn't a normal human. Now we know she saw Grand Fisher when Ichigo ran out to his lure.

Kubo...I am impressed. You have successfully thrown curve balls that have me unable to decide whether I wish to beat you senseless or kiss your hands.

Since I am finally caught up to the canon, having read everything I missed from last year during my "I REFUSE TO READ BLEACH UNTIL IT GETS BETTER" phase, I have to say...

...Why isn't Ichigo communicating with Zangetsu?
That's because there is no Zangetsu; remember that's the whole point of this arc, or at least for Ichigo to have met with the Royal Guard. He had a chat with Mayuri Kurotsuchi about mending broken zanpakuto in bankai form, to which he flatly replied that it was impossible, save for Komamura, which I find invariably to be BS.

Romantic Lunatic

I brought up a bunch of "what if's" to this effect some time ago, last time we got to talking about Isshin/Masaki and how the kids got to be.

Things like: either she has to be able to see spirits, or Urahara has included some features in the gigai that Kubo hasn't been too open about.

Good to see it's back..If there's one thing a fangirl's good at, it's contemplating a fictional character's personal life (and how it would work). cat_xd

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