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Princess JessieKate's avatar

Kawaii Girl

Robo-Dream
JenericRPG


I was going to write a snarky retort but thought better of it for several reasons. However I'll go ahead and say the following.

I think it's pretty clear that the purpose of my thread is to promote good will and inclusion within the lolita subculture, rather than exclude people. For some reason you have chosen to zero in on my word choice and rather than A) PM me privately or B) Make a polite request in the thread if you thought there was a serious problem, you instead chose to start issuing demands and use a lot of negative language. I'm not sure why you decided to choose my thread as a soap box for your concern, but your tone and attitude are not appreciated.

This is supposed to be a positive place for lolitas, regardless of gender, and I am happy to make any changes I need to to make sure that that is clear. However, I deserve to be treated with politeness, rather than negativity.

I apologize if my word choice has offended you in some way. I have no problem with transgendered people. I have no problem with those who identify as male and choose to wear dresses. The fact that I used the words "girls" and "sisters" does not change that, and does not make me or this thread discriminatory. While those who do not identify as female do of course exist within lolita, females are still very, very much the majority, so I think I can be given at least the benefit of the doubt that I meant no ill.

Unfortunately your post seems to have derailed the thread, and started more drama (the very thing I was attempting to distance the lolita community from, if only in this single thread) but I hope that future posters will continue to share their positive experiences.

I don't think he was being that unreasonable about it, to be honest. Just saying "girls" and "sisters" could definitely be seen as discriminatory. If you didn't mean it to be, that's wonderful, I believe you, but why not just apologize and move on instead of arguing about it?
Almond Milks's avatar

Profitable Businessman

JessieKateRose
Robo-Dream
JenericRPG


I was going to write a snarky retort but thought better of it for several reasons. However I'll go ahead and say the following.

I think it's pretty clear that the purpose of my thread is to promote good will and inclusion within the lolita subculture, rather than exclude people. For some reason you have chosen to zero in on my word choice and rather than A) PM me privately or B) Make a polite request in the thread if you thought there was a serious problem, you instead chose to start issuing demands and use a lot of negative language. I'm not sure why you decided to choose my thread as a soap box for your concern, but your tone and attitude are not appreciated.

This is supposed to be a positive place for lolitas, regardless of gender, and I am happy to make any changes I need to to make sure that that is clear. However, I deserve to be treated with politeness, rather than negativity.

I apologize if my word choice has offended you in some way. I have no problem with transgendered people. I have no problem with those who identify as male and choose to wear dresses. The fact that I used the words "girls" and "sisters" does not change that, and does not make me or this thread discriminatory. While those who do not identify as female do of course exist within lolita, females are still very, very much the majority, so I think I can be given at least the benefit of the doubt that I meant no ill.

Unfortunately your post seems to have derailed the thread, and started more drama (the very thing I was attempting to distance the lolita community from, if only in this single thread) but I hope that future posters will continue to share their positive experiences.

I don't think he was being that unreasonable about it, to be honest. Just saying "girls" and "sisters" could definitely be seen as discriminatory. If you didn't mean it to be, that's wonderful, I believe you, but why not just apologize and move on instead of arguing about it?


This.
Robo-Dream's avatar

Lonely Phantom

Ladies (and gentlemen, and others), I PM'd the poster with the original complaint last night. We discussed the matter briefly and I offered to change any language in the first post that seemed like I was discriminating if they cared to offer a suggestion for more open language. I wasn't given a suggestion, but as of last night both the title and the first post were altered to what I hoped was more inclusive wording.

That being said, there is a BIG difference between an "oversight" and "discrimination". Discrimination involves giving preference or preferential treatment to one party over another. This was not the case as common sense would seem to reason that *anyone* regardless of gender identification or otherwise would be free to post in this thread. Have we really reached the point where saying "girls" is discriminatory? Do you all get upset when someone addresses a group of people and says " Hey, guys"? Because that's really the same thing as what happened here.

All that aside, I have done what I can to amend the first post, and I'd appreciate it if this discussion end here. It's off topic to the thread. Feel free to PM me or start a discussion with me elsewhere if you really feel like you have more to say. You have asked why I don't "move on", but I stopped posting about the matter in the thread, opting to handle things via PMs some time ago and would appreciate it if you could do the same. Thank you.
Robo-Dream's avatar

Lonely Phantom

Angel_Takio
Robo-Dream
Angel_Takio
Robo-Dream
Angel_Takio
Robo-Dream


Actually, that's another great thing my community is working on! We are working on the second issue of a lolita based zine! We printed and distributed our first issue during the summer, we're hoping for a fall release for issue two. It's pretty silly and fun, it included things like coloring pages, interviews with local girls, con reviews and comics. Also, the best part was it included stickers featuring art of some of the girls who contributed!

Here's a blog post about issue one!

I'm working on a comic for the second issue, and I'm sort of the "editor" as it were- as far as figuring out the layout etc.
Looking for a writer or artist? This sounds like a load of fun!

As for mine, it's not actually about lolita. It's actually based in the anime Yugioh, the some of the main characters just happens to be lolita.


We're just about done with this issue (actually I think my due date for articles was yesterday... >.> wink and so far we've sort of been keeping it to a local thing, however I think we may eventually branch out to include input from people all over the country/world. I'm not sure how many issues we'll put out, but I like that it allows everyone to participate, even if they can't make it to meetups etc.

We had a really great article in our first zine by a gentleman who recently started dressing with our group. He originally started taking photos of BJDs, but then sought out the lolita group to take photos, and now he dresses up with us regularly (admittedly, his chosen style is Aristocrat, but still...) It was a fascinating read.
Keep me posted! I'm always available to offer my services.

I think it's great you're putting this together. Getting the word out helps people to understand what we're all about, which is partly why I have lolita's in my comic who are also duelists. Part of the idea is to get this stigma out of people's heads that lolitas are ruffly weirdos obsessed with looking like babies. We're not. We're normal people with normal lives. :3


That is definitely the whole idea! I encouraged people to write about personal experiences and interests so that we could show there was a whole spectrum of people interested in lolita. In the upcoming issue, one girl has written an article about being a plus-sized, modified lolita. It's really heartfelt and I'm very proud to print it.

I'm working on a short article about wearing lolita to fly acrross the country and meet one of my life long heroes. (In a setting that had nothing to do with lolita.)
If you have an issue number 3 coming, and you're still interested in letting me write, I'd gladly write an article about lolita in gamer culture!


That could be really fun. I am trying to branch out bit by bit. I have talked to a girl I knew in the Indiana community (I lived there briefly) about doing an article about being a mid-western lolita. The Indiana lolitas *just* had their first meet last month, after chatting etc online for ages. It seems like they are very spread out, so that presents a lot of challenges for them as opposed to being in a city with a more "robust" community like SF, NYC etc.

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