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Blackrose_Knight
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Personal values cannot be wrong. Universally applied values can, but I'm not applying these to a universal audience. Even if personal values could be wrong, I do not have any faulty logic, incorrect reasoning (perhaps it is to you, but hey, that's more of a universal assertion than a what I'm saying is), and there are no lies (only some things that people may disagree on)

Is my great grandmother's personal value African Americans are sub-human, a separate species, and therefore can be killed without repercussion (like a rat), wrong?

That's no longer a personal value (maybe a personal opinion, but not a value). It's being applied to others, and not strictly herself. And it is actually based off of faulty reasoning/lies (we're certainly not a separate species) and weird logic (even if we were a separate species, that does not necessarily mean no repercussion should occur). She's *maybe* got something with them being 'subhuman' as a personal value, but that one isn't really falsifiable or logical anyways.
Her value is she was a better human being than any person of African descent can could ever be because she was biologically human and they weren't. Science of the day told her since she had Caucasian facial features and pale skin she was human. They were not because of their larger brow ridge.

Now this is science gone mad of course, and we are all the same species. But it has a point.

I said nothing about applying it to others, but simply holding that idea and value within herself. She didn't kill any African American's, but it did not effect her psyche to hear of them dying. She didn't care; they weren't human and she went about her business.

Is she wrong to hold the value in her heart that people of African descent are not human?
POlSON CANDY
I can't help but judge people who decide to be virgins by choice til marriage. They have no clue how much they're missing... not only that but since they wait so long, it sets them up for false expectations on what their first time is going to be like. There's also a chance they're be stuck with someone who sucks at sex for life. Life should be lived to the fullest. Not to be wasted on solely one person...

But that's just my opinion. If you wanna live life not knowing about all the amazing sex you're missing out on, then good for you. Good sex makes a great relationship. If you make a commitment to someone who flat out sucks in bed, then your life is going to suck. 3nodding


ROFL. Who are you kidding?

As someone who made it through my teens happily intact, I'll tell you just what I missed:

1. I missed out on prospective STD's.

2. I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last.

When I think of all the peaceful days and nights I enjoyed my childhood and early adulthood enjoying positive, pleasant interpersonal relationships with my classmates, friends, and boyfriend when I could have been having sex all over the place, I could just kick myself ... NOT. I got a lot of studying done, enjoyed my life, and directed my energies primarily toward bettering my social skills (you know, for all the stuff one does BESIDES having sex with as many people as possible) and participating fully in the education process, preparing for REAL adulthood and REAL adult responsibilities instead of pretending that my possession and rigorous use of sex characteristics made me grown and wise beyond my years.
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Blackrose_Knight
While sex, or at least sperm being deposited into the vaginal canal by male ejaculation, is for making babies. That does not mean that it is the top reason for a social-sexual animal (like humans or bonobos) to have sex; or the reason for other types of sex. If that was so, wouldn't baby making sex to sex act ratio's be far higher simply because accidental pregnancy out of sex acts not meant to impregnate? Even in the bonobo population, that lacks condoms, and hormonal birth control, 75% of sex acts don't end in babies. Which means biologically speaking, bonobos are having a s**t ton of same-sex sex or non vaginal/penile sex. (sex that cannot produce babies)

Or to rephrase, it might have started out in human biology and sexuality that sex was strictly for making babies (to propagate the human population), and the only widely preformed sex act was penile/vaginal intercourse to the point of male ejaculation, but that is not so now. The sexual-social nature of humans was formed, (presumably when our frontal lobes developed to what we see today in humans, encouraging social behaviors and consciousness) and other sex acts were "created" (oral, a**l, same-sex sex), the biological cause and effect of penile/vaginal sex = baby, was rendered less important to the survival of species, than social interaction that sex act (other than vaginal/penile) = socially beneficial outcome and survival of species by making the social group less likely to kill one another. That could also be why same-sex sexual behavior happens less in non social animals.

That is my mind babble of why I think sex does not equal baby making.




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Sure, I can explain further. The person I marry and have sex with is someone I want a family with. But, to be honest, I mostly want to adopt because I'm not to fond of the idea of birth. I also don't want to just pop out children. That may be what I'm here for biologically, but it's not what I'm going to do. I recognize that sex is fun, and want to have it for fun. You make it sound like wanting to have a family with someone means wanting to have a super large family and just keep getting pregnant like 19 kids and counting.
Okay, and I totally get that. I am Childfree, I never have sex to "have babies". I am saying "wanting to indiscriminately pop out babies" does not jive with the social aspect of human nature.


The fact that we cannot control pregnancy, the fact that it occurs when we're not intending to make babies leads me to believe that it's meant for baby making. Now, this is purely between a female/male pair having vaginal intercourse. Obviously in same sex pairs and pairs having sex orally/anally/etc. you're not going going to have babies. At this point, it's being used strictly for pleasure, even if it's not the primary purpose of a p***s or v****a. However, at this point it's no longer being used for the biological aspect (there is no necessity for it biologically), but for the pleasure/social aspect (the social aspect is also important for survival).

I agree. I was trying to say (if unsuccessfully) that sex is there biologically for reproduction. I was not saying that it is all it can be used for, or the only thing it should be used for.
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                  It's totally your choice.
                  I'm personally glad I didn't wait because sexual compatibility is very important.


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Blackrose_Knight's avatar

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Bienaimee R

ROFL. Who are you kidding?

As someone who made it through my teens happily intact, I'll tell you just what I missed:

1. I missed out on prospective STD's.

2. I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last.

When I think of all the peaceful days and nights I enjoyed my childhood and early adulthood enjoying positive, pleasant interpersonal relationships with my classmates, friends, and boyfriend when I could have been having sex all over the place, I could just kick myself ... NOT. I got a lot of studying done, enjoyed my life, and directed my energies primarily toward bettering my social skills and participating fully in the education process, preparing for REAL adulthood and REAL adult responsibilities instead of pretending that my possession and rigorous use of sex characteristics made me grown and wise beyond my years.

ROFL. Who are you kidding.
As someone who made it through my teens happily emotionally intact and had sex while I was in my teens, I'll tell you just what you missed.

1) I missed out on prospective STD's by using condoms. Always. I also only had sex with people I knew their STD status, and trusted that the status they told me was true.

2)I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life by educating myself on all forms of birth control and then correctly and consistently using my preferred choice of it. I chose a hormonal birth control pill paired with condom use. I set my cellphone to go off at 12:35pm everyday to remind me to take my birth control. I educated myself on what other medications could make my hormonal birth control useless. I abstained from sex when I took those other medications

I educated myself and practiced how to put on condoms. I learned to look at expiration dates and adhere to them. I learned to buy condoms without fear. I learned to carry them and talk about them with everyone I had sex with. I learned that I should ALWAYS use a water based lube with latex condoms. And NEVER use silicon lube with latex condoms as it causes degradation and holes in the latex.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last by making sure I had sex with someone I loved and loved me back just as much. I never had a one night stand. I never had meaningless sex "just because". I had sex because I wanted to, with who I wanted to, in a safe and emotionally okay place.
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Blackrose_Knight
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Personal values cannot be wrong. Universally applied values can, but I'm not applying these to a universal audience. Even if personal values could be wrong, I do not have any faulty logic, incorrect reasoning (perhaps it is to you, but hey, that's more of a universal assertion than a what I'm saying is), and there are no lies (only some things that people may disagree on)

Is my great grandmother's personal value African Americans are sub-human, a separate species, and therefore can be killed without repercussion (like a rat), wrong?

That's no longer a personal value (maybe a personal opinion, but not a value). It's being applied to others, and not strictly herself. And it is actually based off of faulty reasoning/lies (we're certainly not a separate species) and weird logic (even if we were a separate species, that does not necessarily mean no repercussion should occur). She's *maybe* got something with them being 'subhuman' as a personal value, but that one isn't really falsifiable or logical anyways.
Her value is she was a better human being than any person of African descent can could ever be because she was biologically human and they weren't. Science of the day told her since she had Caucasian facial features and pale skin she was human. They were not because of their larger brow ridge.

Now this is science gone mad of course, and we are all the same species. But it has a point.

I said nothing about applying it to others, but simply holding that idea and value within herself. She didn't kill any African American's, but it did not effect her psyche to hear of them dying. She didn't care; they weren't human and she went about her business.

Is she wrong to hold the value in her heart that people of African descent are not human?

Nope. She can hate them all she wants if she isn't actually doing anything to hurt them. If she expresses it onto these people, yeah, it's problematic.
But I still don't see it as a personal value because she probably wanted others to think that way too. To me, a personal value cannot be something you feel others need to follow, or feel about others. It's simply values that apply strictly to one's self and how they act.
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Hedonism isn't a bad philosophy. Although what I described is hardly mindless. You're missing one thing: if they want it. If they want it (and are ready), I see no problem. It also means they're making the choice for them self, it's not something mindless.
Maybe encourage is the wrong word. "I support them in their choices."

So if someone wanted to eat, smoke pot and ******** all day, you would support their choice?


No I wouldn't, because even though I'm not against pot, it sounds like they're being lazy arseholes and probably are unable to support themselves, therefore mooching off parents.
I support people doing what they want so long as they remain a functional part of society.
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Nope. She can hate them all she wants if she isn't actually doing anything to hurt them. If she expresses it onto these people, yeah, it's problematic.
But I still don't see it as a personal value because she probably wanted others to think that way too. To me, a personal value cannot be something you feel others need to follow, or feel about others. It's simply values that apply strictly to one's self and how they act.



Call me picky but I want you to actually type that "It was okay for my great grandmother to think that people of African descent weren't actually human if she wasn't actually doing anything to hurt them". You assume she hated them, no she pitied them, like a you would pity a lame horse.

My great grans was rather demure, and never much spoke unless spoken to. She never did anything to force anyone to think the way she did. Now, was she right to think that way?

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The fact that we cannot control pregnancy, the fact that it occurs when we're not intending to make babies leads me to believe that it's meant for baby making. Now, this is purely between a female/male pair having vaginal intercourse. Obviously in same sex pairs and pairs having sex orally/anally/etc. you're not going going to have babies. At this point, it's being used strictly for pleasure, even if it's not the primary purpose of a p***s or v****a. However, at this point it's no longer being used for the biological aspect (there is no necessity for it biologically), but for the pleasure/social aspect (the social aspect is also important for survival).
Okay, I think I get what you are saying.

I hope you don't mind I squished these posts together.
betheothergirl's avatar

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Bienaimee R

ROFL. Who are you kidding?

As someone who made it through my teens happily intact, I'll tell you just what I missed:

1. I missed out on prospective STD's.

2. I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last.

When I think of all the peaceful days and nights I enjoyed my childhood and early adulthood enjoying positive, pleasant interpersonal relationships with my classmates, friends, and boyfriend when I could have been having sex all over the place, I could just kick myself ... NOT. I got a lot of studying done, enjoyed my life, and directed my energies primarily toward bettering my social skills and participating fully in the education process, preparing for REAL adulthood and REAL adult responsibilities instead of pretending that my possession and rigorous use of sex characteristics made me grown and wise beyond my years.

ROFL. Who are you kidding.
As someone who made it through my teens happily emotionally intact and had sex while I was in my teens, I'll tell you just what you missed.

1) I missed out on prospective STD's by using condoms. Always. I also only had sex with people I knew their STD status, and trusted that the status they told me was true.

2)I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life by educating myself on all forms of birth control and then correctly and consistently using my preferred choice of it. I chose a hormonal birth control pill paired with condom use. I set my cellphone to go off at 12:35pm everyday to remind me to take my birth control. I educated myself on what other medications could make my hormonal birth control useless. I abstained from sex when I took those other medications

I educated myself and practiced how to put on condoms. I learned to look at expiration dates and adhere to them. I learned to buy condoms without fear. I learned to carry them and talk about them with everyone I had sex with. I learned that I should ALWAYS use a water based lube with latex condoms. And NEVER use silicon lube with latex condoms as it causes degradation and holes in the latex.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last by making sure I had sex with someone I loved and loved me back just as much. I never had a one night stand. I never had meaningless sex "just because". I had sex because I wanted to, with who I wanted to, in a safe and emotionally okay place.



I kind of agree with both of you?
Abstinence is the only 100% guarantee for all those problems. As someone who is pretty well educated in the world of sex safety (mostly due to personal interest in sex and reading whatever I could get my hands on) I'll always admit this. There's still a chance, however miniscule that something bad happens--condom breaks, birth control fails, etc.
But it's not a bad thing having sex when you're safe and smart because those chances are so low. Any person who knows about sex safety should know this. If someone wants to have sex, it's very easy to be safe and pretty nearly secure.
The emotional bit is a bit less predictable, so it's gotta be judged on an individual basis. I personally didn't even date as a teen (I would have in high school, but I'm not particularly attractive, so no luck there) so I don't really know how I'll react in a romantic relationship, especially one with sex.
Blackrose_Knight
Bienaimee R

ROFL. Who are you kidding?

As someone who made it through my teens happily intact, I'll tell you just what I missed:

1. I missed out on prospective STD's.

2. I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last.

When I think of all the peaceful days and nights I enjoyed my childhood and early adulthood enjoying positive, pleasant interpersonal relationships with my classmates, friends, and boyfriend when I could have been having sex all over the place, I could just kick myself ... NOT. I got a lot of studying done, enjoyed my life, and directed my energies primarily toward bettering my social skills and participating fully in the education process, preparing for REAL adulthood and REAL adult responsibilities instead of pretending that my possession and rigorous use of sex characteristics made me grown and wise beyond my years.

ROFL. Who are you kidding.
As someone who made it through my teens happily emotionally intact and had sex while I was in my teens, I'll tell you just what you missed.

1) I missed out on prospective STD's by using condoms. Always. I also only had sex with people I knew their STD status, and trusted that the status they told me was true.

2)I missed out on the potential consequence of teenage, unplanned pregnancy where the father was likely neither able or willing to serve much purpose in the child's life by educating myself on all forms of birth control and then correctly and consistently using my preferred choice of it. I chose a hormonal birth control pill paired with condom use. I set my cellphone to go off at 12:35pm everyday to remind me to take my birth control. I educated myself on what other medications could make my hormonal birth control useless. I abstained from sex when I took those other medications

I educated myself and practiced how to put on condoms. I learned to look at expiration dates and adhere to them. I learned to buy condoms without fear. I learned to carry them and talk about them with everyone I had sex with. I learned that I should ALWAYS use a water based lube with latex condoms. And NEVER use silicon lube with latex condoms as it causes degradation and holes in the latex.

3. I missed out on all the drama that inevitably accumulates around disposable, relatively short-term relationships never intended to last by making sure I had sex with someone I loved and loved me back just as much. I never had a one night stand. I never had meaningless sex "just because". I had sex because I wanted to, with who I wanted to, in a safe and emotionally okay place.


Horsefeathers. I do not for one minute believe a single person who claims s/he enjoyed an idyllic and perfect sex life as a teenager. While I do not doubt you are lying, I don't doubt it's possible for you to believe your own lies in order to assuage your adolescent wounds related to the issue. You are wasting your time and your words arguing the point with me further.

And while you're promoting use of hormonal birth control, please keep in mind even very young women can experience serious side effects related to their use, including thrombosis and possible pulmonary embolus. As a young survivor of P.E., it's the last thing I wish on any active, healthy young woman (or man, for that matter.)
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I get judged by family sometimes over this topic. It makes me rather uncomfortable. I'm the quiet introverted type and don't really want to bother with something like that unless it is with someone I have a truly deep bond with. Having sex just to have it is empty. I want my first time to mean something more then having the right to say "LOL I DID IT".

I completely agree. Sure, sex feels good and might be fun, but it's for making babies, and if I'm going to have it, it's going to be with someone I want to raise a family with.
Lol, sex is not just for making babies. Most mammals have sex for pleasure as well as reproduction, so even Mother Nature herself disagrees with you.

It's 100% for making babies. It being pleasurable does not stop the fact that we have sex to make offspring. It being pleasurable is a way to make it something animals want to have. This, in turn, leads to babies. The pleasure itself is a part of the mechanism to make babies.
So sex is not for pleasure. It is pleasurable, but it's for making babies. That is it's purpose. Mother nature is just smart and knew how to make it much more interesting in order for us to have lots of babies.
Yes, it is FOR making babies, but are you saying that you should ONLY have sex for making babies, and NEVER just for pleasure?


Oh God no.
If it's pleasurable take advantage of it. It's not hurting anyone (unless they have an addiction to the point of life problems). I have an extremely liberal view on sex. If someone wants to have it and they're not hurting others, then I encourage them to have it as much as they please. I just personally want to wait.
Oh, alrighty then. I was concerned that you thought that sex was only for procreation / animals don't have sex solely for pleasure at times.
betheothergirl's avatar

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Blackrose_Knight
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Nope. She can hate them all she wants if she isn't actually doing anything to hurt them. If she expresses it onto these people, yeah, it's problematic.
But I still don't see it as a personal value because she probably wanted others to think that way too. To me, a personal value cannot be something you feel others need to follow, or feel about others. It's simply values that apply strictly to one's self and how they act.



Call me picky but I want you to actually type that "It was okay for my great grandmother to think that people of African descent weren't actually human if she wasn't actually doing anything to hurt them". You assume she hated them, no she pitied them, like a you would pity a lame horse.

My great grans was rather demure, and never much spoke unless spoken to. She never did anything to force anyone to think the way she did. Now, was she right to think that way?

x_Silver_Starlight_x
The fact that we cannot control pregnancy, the fact that it occurs when we're not intending to make babies leads me to believe that it's meant for baby making. Now, this is purely between a female/male pair having vaginal intercourse. Obviously in same sex pairs and pairs having sex orally/anally/etc. you're not going going to have babies. At this point, it's being used strictly for pleasure, even if it's not the primary purpose of a p***s or v****a. However, at this point it's no longer being used for the biological aspect (there is no necessity for it biologically), but for the pleasure/social aspect (the social aspect is also important for survival).
Okay, I think I get what you are saying.

I hope you don't mind I squished these posts together.


Okay, replace hate with pity.
Was she right? No. Was she wrong? No. Personal values, especially like this one where she thought someone was lesser can't really be right or wrong. Am I morally opposed to the idea that blacks are lesser? Absolutely. But I separate my morals from describing something as right or wrong. What I disagree with morally is not the same as something being right or wrong. If I were brought up 100 years ago, I'm sure I'd think quite differently.
betheothergirl's avatar

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Sexual Innuendo
Oh, alrighty then. I was concerned that you thought that sex was only for procreation / animals don't have sex solely for pleasure at times.


Yeah, definitely not.
If someone wants to have sex purely for procreation purposes, that's there their* prerogative. I'm not planning on doing that.


********* you homophones

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