Virgin Discrimination

[x_Silver_Starlight_x]

Middendorffi

Oh I didn't mean it like that, I think you misunderstood me a little. I meant I don't see why virgins are seen as controversial.

I'm curious now though, would you rather your partner think sex is not important also, or does that not matter to you?

Oh, woops. Sorry.

Nah, I don't really care. I want them to be open to the possibility that when having sex we may not be great partners, but still be willing to make the marriage work. But if it's important to him, that's fine. He just has to wait for me. He has to be open with me before marriage, especially about sex. And I'll be open minded about intimate interactions until I'm ready for actual sex (like I said earlier, there are plenty of ways to be sexual with a partner without having sex with them)

[Blackrose_Knight]

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Since biologically sex is for making babies, I also want it to be with someone I want to raise a family with. These are personal values. These are not wrong, since personal values cannot be wrong. Not everyone will have them, but I'm hardly an idiot if I do.

Your personal universal assertion (the way you have stated it is not a personal value, but a global blanket assertion in human sexuality) sex is for making babies is asserted on faulty reasoning, refuted by my FACTS see my sources and text in the matter. Humans don't always have sex to make babies.

What would have made me not pick you apart is "I only want to have sex to make babies". That would have been fine, and clearly delinted that it was in fact a personal preference and not a universal assertion.

Personal values can be wrong, and are wrong all the time, when based of lies, faulty logic, or incorrect reasoning.

[Dyemanic]

I remember when i said that i don't need to have sex to be within a group
and one of the girls said that i was "naive"
Well just to let you know that those who have sex are as " Naive " as you
They may do it for peer pressure
they may do it for the boy ( And knowing a boy, when a girl is a virgin he isn't have sex to please you
he is having sex just to please himself)
That girl was stupid to call me that And Here Is Way
Make a long story short

It was the beginning of the school year she was one of the many girls
that had sex with one of the popular girls boyfriend
She was in love with this 30 year old man when she was 18 years old
She and the cheated girlfriend were always crying because he was always sleeping
with other girls
A Two timer, playing with many sluts

So girls (If you smart at all)
Why do you think a 30 year old man would be dating such a young girl?

who is Naive now?

[Jason0690]

Aside from a few jokes that were intended as such, and to my knowledge taken as such -
No, I've never met anyone that was virgin-"shamed".
I've seen more people "slut shamed" for having sex out of marriage, myself being one of those people.
Or people who were "slut shamed" for having sex with more than four people.

Very low on the "virgin shaming".

The only times I can think of when people actually shame virgins is when they take the "I'm so pure, high and mighty" route.

Contrary to most zealot-loving people like to believe, sex is not a black and white subject. You don't have someone who's out of marriage and ******** everyone that they can get their hands on OR a devout husband/wife that has only ever had sex with their wife/husband.
There is so, so much gray.
There's people who are polyamourus that don't cheat or have sex with everything that walks.
There are unmarried couples that have been together forever, but were each virgins before having met, with no intention to marry.
There are people that are sex nuts that are married.
There are people that abstain from sex even after marriage.(Hello, Asexuals anyone?)

I'm not saying to go out and get laid right now. And I'm not saying that you should save it for prince/ss charming that comes to sweep you off your feet into a married life.
Just ******** someone you trust. Love would be better, but it's ideally optional.
Trust really isn't.

[Dustiest Gozongas]

Yeah, sort of. When I was 17, I'd just started college and all my friends would talk about was who they banged, what they did, etc. I never had anything to contribute to those conversations because I was a virgin, so they'd sort of give me the whole "You need to get laid, gurrrrrl!" spiel, which was annoying. I was the odd man out for a while.

I wasn't waiting for marriage, and I did end up having sex somewhere around that time, but I get how annoying it can be to have people giving you their two cents and acting holier-than-thou because "you need to get laid!111" It really isn't anybody's business but your own.

[x_Silver_Starlight_x]

Blackrose_Knight

Wrong. Also a lie you have been told. Our closet primate relatives that have the closest sexual-social structure to humans are Bonobo monkeys. They have sex to say hello, solidify family-tribe ties, to gain social status, and other reasons. Sex for the bonobo is not strictly for baby making. The sex act to baby making sex act ratio is low. There are way, way more sex acts per pregnancy than say, a gorilla, which does not engage is the social use of sex. Gorillas have sex to make babies. Humans and bonobos, do not.

I am working on pulling up the source for this. My google foo is not working as well as it can be. But there will be a source.

Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. National Geographic article

Primatologist Frans de Waal believes that Bonobos use sexual activity to resolve conflict between individuals
International Journal of Primatology
Volume 18, Number 1, 1-21, DOI: 10.1023/A:1026384922066

Whither the bonobo? When discussing our evolutionary origins, science has a habit of focusing on chimps alone, which are aggressive and cruel. But the authors point out that the peaceable bonobo is just as closely related and may actually have more in common with humans in terms of “socio-sexual behavior and infant development” (page 77). The libidinous bonobos, however, are routinely ignored by researchers, “simply because bonobos raise doubts about the naturalness of human long-term pair bonding” (page 75). In Regards to the Book, Sex at Dawn which I own and think you should read


Hidden Agenda

It’s not so much hidden: the authors want people to stop deluding themselves about the ease of lifelong commitment. As Ryan said in one of his guest “Savage Love” columns, “Our greatest ambition for Sex at Dawn is that it will encourage young people like you to clarify their sexual nature before signing on to long-term commitments they can’t get out of later without making a huge mess.” The authors have been careful to say that they’re not encouraging everyone to take up with multiple partners, but to be realistic about how humans are designed to operate.

Taken from same source as above.

What I am asking you to be is REALISTIC about your sexuality, and not lie or delude yourself because of what someone has said. To do that, you need the facts about sex, not trumped up lies spoon fed to you by an anti-sex government and religion that thinks sex is amoral and icky.

Like I said, it's pleasurable. Because of that, people (and other animals) have a lot of it. They tie it into behavioural and cultural things because that's what people and animals do. It's pleasurable, we like it, and it gets "exploited" (I put that in quoatations because that may sound negative, but it's not. It's natural and makes sense).
I'm NOT saying it isn't used for other things. But, even after reading those links, I still am going to say that sex is not for those things. It's for reproduction. It's definitely used for pleasure, and has been adapted to behaviour, but biologically speaking (not behaviourally) it is for populating.
God knows when I'm married, I'm going to be having sex just for the fun of it, without any intent of making babies. Will probably be wearing condoms and taking birth control a lot of the time just to avoid it. I'm not lying to myself about the fact that it's fun, and I want it. But I personally want it with the person I want to raise children with.

[x_Silver_Starlight_x]

K y u u t a i-_-J R o c k

I don't plan on saving sex for marriage but.. I don't plan on sleeping with everybody I know.

I get dirty looks when someone finds out that I'm saving myself for someone that I love, and who loves me back and plan to stay together for a while.
Like.. Seriously? I'm considered bad, wrong, horrible, etc, for not being interested in sleeping around.

Give them a dirty look back.
You know what you need in a sexual relationship, and for you, it doesn't include marriage, but does include love. There is nothing wrong with that. People who judge you for waiting and those that judge you for not waiting probably have personal insecurities making them judge others for no good reason.

[x_Silver_Starlight_x]

Blazein3D

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Well, discrimination isn't quite the right word.
Has anyone else been judged for making the choice to be a virgin? Often when people hear that I'm a virgin and waiting for marriage, they assume it's for religious reasons, and say that I really should be having sex before I'm married. "Try before you buy," they say, not uncommonly with a bit of a sneer, as if I'm stupid or something.
I feel like this is me going up to someone and saying "You should not be having sex before you're married, stupid." Which I would never do, because to me, it's not a matter of should, but when you're ready, and what you feel about sex. It's not my place to judge someone who's decided to have premarital sex. In fact, I think it's fine, and as long as they're comfortable with it, so am I.
Now, while I've chosen to wait in part due to religious reasons, it's mostly for personal reasons. The same reason I'm waiting to drink until I'm legal here (19, only a couple more months, though I did once drink in Quebec, but I was legal there). I also choose to wait because I know the risks that come with sex, and when I decide to face them, I want to be fairly positive my partner will face them with me. It's not because I think sex is wrong, simply something I want to wait for.

So yeah, back to my original question. Has anyone else been on the receiving end of judgment due to virginity? Maybe you're the judge yourself? Do you find it kind of funny that only 50 years ago, it was the complete opposite, where people thought you were strange if you didn't wait for marriage?

Its al olot worse for males than chicks I mean since Im a male they atoumatically assume Im not a virgin and when I am its the end of the world ugh but I deal with it

I imagine. There's a huge stigma these days about men needing to have sex. It's totally unnecessary, and rather annoying really. My brother has the same problem.

[Blackrose_Knight]

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Like I said, it's pleasurable. Because of that, people (and other animals) have a lot of it. They tie it into behavioural and cultural things because that's what people and animals do. It's pleasurable, we like it, and it gets "exploited" (I put that in quoatations because that may sound negative, but it's not. It's natural and makes sense).

x_Silver_Starlight_x

I'm NOT saying it isn't used for other things. But, even after reading those links, I still am going to say that sex is not for those things. It's for reproduction. It's definitely used for pleasure, and has been adapted to behaviour, but biologically speaking (not behaviourally) it is for populating.
God knows when I'm married, I'm going to be having sex just for the fun of it, without any intent of making babies. Will probably be wearing condoms and taking birth control a lot of the time just to avoid it. I'm not lying to myself about the fact that it's fun, and I want it. But I personally want it with the person I want to raise children with.

What is your proof in this assertion aside from a gut instinct or knee jerk? What is your evidence your sources to base this off of? I am a human sexuality and psych major. I would like to see the counter evidence as it is pertaining to my field of study. I like to hear well thought out arguments. I have always wondered is the dog wagging the tail, or tail wagging the dog.

So... you intend to have sex for pleasure, with someone you wish to make a family with because sex is for making babies...... Can you explain that more? Why not just have sex to make babies all the time if you intend to make a family with that person anyway?

[iKyuutai]

x_Silver_Starlight_x

K y u u t a i-_-J R o c k

I don't plan on saving sex for marriage but.. I don't plan on sleeping with everybody I know.

I get dirty looks when someone finds out that I'm saving myself for someone that I love, and who loves me back and plan to stay together for a while.
Like.. Seriously? I'm considered bad, wrong, horrible, etc, for not being interested in sleeping around.

Give them a dirty look back.
You know what you need in a sexual relationship, and for you, it doesn't include marriage, but does include love. There is nothing wrong with that. People who judge you for waiting and those that judge you for not waiting probably have personal insecurities making them judge others for no good reason.

Oh Yeah, I agree with you on the whole personal insecurities and all. It's just gets so annoying and old. Urgh, I might end up punching the next person who gives me a dirty look after I tell them that, I swear.

[x_Silver_Starlight_x]

Blackrose_Knight

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Since biologically sex is for making babies, I also want it to be with someone I want to raise a family with. These are personal values. These are not wrong, since personal values cannot be wrong. Not everyone will have them, but I'm hardly an idiot if I do.

Your personal universal assertion (the way you have stated it is not a personal value, but a global blanket assertion in human sexuality) sex is for making babies is asserted on faulty reasoning, refuted by my FACTS see my sources and text in the matter. Humans don't always have sex to make babies.

What would have made me not pick you apart is "I only want to have sex to make babies". That would have been fine, and clearly delinted that it was in fact a personal preference and not a universal assertion.

Personal values can be wrong, and are wrong all the time, when based of lies, faulty logic, or incorrect reasoning.

That is not an assertion on sexuality. Biologically, sex is for making babies. That does not mean any other use is wrong, or bad, or whatever. It's the behavioural associations, and I personally am not adopting them. I do not say "I only want to have sex to make babies" because that would be a blatant lie. I want to have sex for the fun of it too. But, because sex is biologically for reproduction, I PERSONALLY want to wait until I'm with someone I want to make babies with. No one else has to adopt that desire, no one else has to even have sex for making babies. Lesbians don't, gay people don't, infertile couples don't, and even fertile couples don't. Most have it for fun. That doesn't change it's biological purpose, just what it's actually being used for.

Personal values cannot be wrong. Universally applied values can, but I'm not applying these to a universal audience. Even if personal values could be wrong, I do not have any faulty logic, incorrect reasoning (perhaps it is to you, but hey, that's more of a universal assertion than a what I'm saying is), and there are no lies (only some things that people may disagree on)

[Sexual Innuendo]

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Sexual Innuendo

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Brasa Shikabane

I get judged by family sometimes over this topic. It makes me rather uncomfortable. I'm the quiet introverted type and don't really want to bother with something like that unless it is with someone I have a truly deep bond with. Having sex just to have it is empty. I want my first time to mean something more then having the right to say "LOL I DID IT".

I completely agree. Sure, sex feels good and might be fun, but it's for making babies, and if I'm going to have it, it's going to be with someone I want to raise a family with.

Lol, sex is not just for making babies. Most mammals have sex for pleasure as well as reproduction, so even Mother Nature herself disagrees with you.

It's 100% for making babies. It being pleasurable does not stop the fact that we have sex to make offspring. It being pleasurable is a way to make it something animals want to have. This, in turn, leads to babies. The pleasure itself is a part of the mechanism to make babies.
So sex is not for pleasure. It is pleasurable, but it's for making babies. That is it's purpose. Mother nature is just smart and knew how to make it much more interesting in order for us to have lots of babies.

Yes, it is FOR making babies, but are you saying that you should ONLY have sex for making babies, and NEVER just for pleasure?

[Blackrose_Knight]

x_Silver_Starlight_x

That is not an assertion on sexuality. Biologically, sex is for making babies. That does not mean any other use is wrong, or bad, or whatever. It's the behavioural associations, and I personally am not adopting them. I do not say "I only want to have sex to make babies" because that would be a blatant lie. I want to have sex for the fun of it too. But, because sex is biologically for reproduction, I PERSONALLY want to wait until I'm with someone I want to make babies with. No one else has to adopt that desire, no one else has to even have sex for making babies. Lesbians don't, gay people don't, infertile couples don't, and even fertile couples don't. Most have it for fun. That doesn't change it's biological purpose, just what it's actually being used for.

That is what I was hoping for. You need to be clear and concise, when posting personal opinions and choices. Especially when a lot of the LD has at least a 2 year college education.

x_Silver_Starlight_x

Personal values cannot be wrong. Universally applied values can, but I'm not applying these to a universal audience. Even if personal values could be wrong, I do not have any faulty logic, incorrect reasoning (perhaps it is to you, but hey, that's more of a universal assertion than a what I'm saying is), and there are no lies (only some things that people may disagree on)

Is my great grandmother's personal value African Americans are sub-human, a separate species, and therefore can be killed without repercussion (like a rat), wrong?

[Jason0690]

x_Silver_Starlight_x

That is not an assertion on sexuality. Biologically, sex is for making babies.

Biologically sex is there for two reasons - reproduction and for the brain to release chemicals to tell your body that you love this person you just ******** and in part, want to care for them.