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Desideraht's avatar

Dapper Phantom

land of storms and tea
Dandrogyny


It is very confusing. Recently I've just kind of decided to stick with male appearance and presentation and just leave all the rest of it as whatever. In the end, I'd be happy with being seen as male, and it's not as important that everyone understand the genderless aspect. In the end really, I'm still going to be myself either way.

Oh, that song was beautiful. Not the genre I usually listen to but I do enjoy it occasionally. I say go for it, heheh. Create your own niche!

The opposition to not transitioning is... unfortunate to say the least, though. In part I really think it might have something to do with the way society has set everything up to divide us into one or the other. We're encouraged and even pressured to conform to either female or male whether it's in what public bathrooms we use to what style of eye glasses we buy. Everywhere I go there seems to be a mens section and a womens section and it just seems a bit ridiculous, even without the added confusion of being genderqueer.

Hmm. Well, obviously I should do a bit of research and serious consideration before I make any moves. How exactly does one go about educating themselves on this anyway? I try google but I seem to find different sources telling me different things, or websites written as though to someone who is already a solid part of the trans* community. I've heard of gender therapists- is this something I can consider if I find an opportunity? Are they welcoming to people who are still new to discussing and exploring what they might be feeling?

Also, is T something you take for life? Does it fade when you stop taking dosages, or is there a point where the effects become permanent?

Thanks for helping me out so far.
My identity IS somewhat confusing because I do not want to be seen as an "it" or third gender in THIS society because I consider it undermining to my humanity. So I really DON'T want to be seen as anything other than a man. If society were different, I my feel different about that.

I love symphonic metal. <3

You're right. People are uncomfortable with people challenging gender roles. If we don't change our sex, we don't have the "ticket" to the "other sex". Like they have all these arbitrary "rules" about it because doing anything different makes them uncomfortable.

Well a good place to start is Hudson's Guide (it's for FtMs only). It is very focused on masculinity because that is what most FtMs want but still full of useful info. Also, yes, you MUST speak to a gender therapist if you want surgery, and depending on where you live, you may need a therapist for hormones too. The standards of care changed so that a therapist is no longer needed but people in "traditional" areas don't really accept the new version of SOC yet (because they're being "cautious" for no reason). Gender therapists are FOR people who are "new" to this. Once we've transitioned we really have no need to see a gender therapist anymore. They basically just approve the procedures and help us sort our identities out. One big issue is like everyone else the are VERY stick in "male" and "female" and will sometimes try to tell you that you're not trans if you don't fit into that bubble. Some therapists are just as stupid as the common public.

If you want to look male for life, you take testosterone for life. If you stop taking it your body will slowly feminize again (but not completely). I am considering stopping in my 30's, because most trans men I have EVER heard of died before they reached 70. I fear that testosterone use may decrease lifespan by 20-30 years, even though there is no proof of that yet.

Some effects of testosterone are permanent no matter what:
- Voice change
- Hair growth (on body/face)
- Adam's apple
- Clitoral growth

Others are no so permanent:
- Muscle gain/tone
- Sex drive increase
- Stamina
- Appetite gain

These aren't all the changes but I'm having a hard time recalling them right now.
Body hair may thin if you've been off of T for a long time.

Basically when you stop taking T you still have a lot of the male characteristics but your body/face will soften a lot.
npulse
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iShotElmo8D

Oh wow. O_o it's been okay I guess. You seem to have a very busy schedule huh..lol.



Yes...yes I do and although I'm not looking forward to it...MONEY! rofl I'm saving up to move so this extreme work schedule will be so beneficial.

Wow, hope you find a nice place...unless you already have. blaugh



I've found a few apartments I like but I need to be able to get a job there first and that's just not going well. No one wants to hire, let alone hire someone not even living in the same state gonk

Ouch, I'm sorry. razz Samething happened with my brother.



Was there anything he did to help get a job? I could use any tips emo

Not really, he was trying to apply for marketing places like Target and stuff, but they didn't accept his applications. He goes to a university now, though.
land of storms and tea's avatar

Dapper Dabbler

Dandrogyny


Thank you for the link! I'll be sure to investigate it thoroughly when I have time later. And it sounds like a gender therapist is definitely something I should seek out, although I will likely have to come out first to my parents. Living at home and not having your own vehicle will kind of force my hand on them finding out where I would be going eventually, I would think. I'm a little intimated at finally seeking out a therapist just to get one who might not understand at all- but then, that would be the therapist's problem and he or she would just not be right for me.

And thanks for the info. It's nice to know that a voice change, at least, would be permanent. Although that bit about it potentially decreasing one's lifespan is a little alarming. Clearly there's a lot to learn and consider here.

I meant to ask earlier but I suppose I got distracted in everything else- you said siblings can be the best allies. I'm really hoping things will work out that way for me, but do you have any advice on how to approach the subject?
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Wow, hope you find a nice place...unless you already have. blaugh



I've found a few apartments I like but I need to be able to get a job there first and that's just not going well. No one wants to hire, let alone hire someone not even living in the same state gonk

Ouch, I'm sorry. razz Samething happened with my brother.



Was there anything he did to help get a job? I could use any tips emo

Not really, he was trying to apply for marketing places like Target and stuff, but they didn't accept his applications. He goes to a university now, though.



Dang. This is being such a pain but I really need and want to move *sigh* BAH.
Desideraht's avatar

Dapper Phantom

land of storms and tea
Dandrogyny


Thank you for the link! I'll be sure to investigate it thoroughly when I have time later. And it sounds like a gender therapist is definitely something I should seek out, although I will likely have to come out first to my parents. Living at home and not having your own vehicle will kind of force my hand on them finding out where I would be going eventually, I would think. I'm a little intimated at finally seeking out a therapist just to get one who might not understand at all- but then, that would be the therapist's problem and he or she would just not be right for me.

And thanks for the info. It's nice to know that a voice change, at least, would be permanent. Although that bit about it potentially decreasing one's lifespan is a little alarming. Clearly there's a lot to learn and consider here.

I meant to ask earlier but I suppose I got distracted in everything else- you said siblings can be the best allies. I'm really hoping things will work out that way for me, but do you have any advice on how to approach the subject?
Yeah, always remember you can switch therapists if someone is giving you a hard time.

Yeah, the voice change is totally permanent and that's one of the perks of testosterone. For FtMs anyway. For MtFs it takes a lot of work to change their voice.
Don't worry too much about the lifespan issue. Everyone tells me I'm wrong. >_> Show me examples of trans men in their 80's and I'll stop worrying.

Not really. I have no idea what your relationship with your sister is like. Sounds pretty good and like you two are rather close. You could just be like, "Sis, I gotta talk to you about something important," or something. I'm sure she'd understand.
land of storms and tea's avatar

Dapper Dabbler

Dandrogyny


Alright, thanks. I am hoping it will be pretty easy to talk to her about, she may even understand already.
Desideraht's avatar

Dapper Phantom

land of storms and tea
Dandrogyny


Alright, thanks. I am hoping it will be pretty easy to talk to her about, she may even understand already.
Considering the fanfics thing, I think a part of her deeply understands it, even if she doesn't consciously acknowledge it yet. :]
Stegamoe's avatar

Tiny Nerd

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land of storms and tea
And every time you ask him for another vanishing act,
he half smiles as if to say...


I swear, I was reading this and thought I wrote it in my sleep or something. We have a hell of a lot in common. I identify as asexual as well, and while I say I'm a transguy it's not quite 100% male in here. I just know that I've always wanted a flat chest and to be treated like a boy and hell, I even was convinced as a child I was born with a p***s and my parents made me get SRS when I was born. Of course I only cared because it was convenient to take a piss that way, honestly if I could pick genitals it would be "none" because of having no interest in sex.

The guilt I wish I could tell you something that would help, but that's something I'm working on with my therapist. He keeps trying to convince me transition isn't selfish, it's something that you need to do if that's the way you feel. Most people don't ever even question their gender so just doing that takes a lot of effort and self-doubt, meaning something isn't really right. Or, at least, that's what he's said. It's going to effect everyone you know and there's nothing you can do about it but hope they love you enough to try to understand where you're coming from. You might be surprised at people's reactions to things, I thought for sure everyone would hate me and I was being a terrible inconvenience, but most people were like "So?" or "We basically knew" and are supportive. It helps me feel a little better to know they don't see me as a burden.

It sounds like your parents might take it really well, considering they already are okay with you "cross dressing" (in big air quotes). I think what parents most want is for their child to be happy, however that may be. Most would rather have you transition then be dead.

As far as jobs go, there are a number of places that make it against code to discriminate against trans* folk, whether it be on a state level or an employer level. (For one I know NYS and Target, both my employers, have rules against this that could get people fired and sued if they discriminated against me.) There's a website I can't remember the name of right now where you can look up trans*-friendly employers.

As for being feminine, totally understand you there bro. From someone who grew up being a tomboy I make for quite a feminine boy. There seems to be a number of feminine transguys from what I've seen on Tumblr, actually, and I think I saw a group specifically for fems on LiveJournal. I'm really out of touch with the community though and wouldn't be a good person to ask about that. I never quite got into the community, honestly.

..."Whatever you want,
whatever you want,
whatever you want is fine by me."
Dandrogyny
You're doing good! You're 1/4 there! That's promising!

Care credit? That's... interesting. Does it have ridiculous interest? I'd do something like that, byt I don't need debt. I'm gonna save for the whole thing and probably have surgery by like Aug 2013. Depending on what's available.

          Yeah, considering I saved almost $2000 in about 2 months, I'm pretty excited. But I want it done asap, cause the amount of dysphoria I have+the pain binding is starting to give me is getting crazy.

          It does have ridiculous interest if you don't pay it off within the promotional period, but whenever you sign up for the card, it lets you pick how long you want to take to pay it off, and so long as you pay off the entire thing within the 6, 12, 18, 24, or 36 months, then you won't have any interest, you just pay for what you were loaned. (Well wait, I think if you choose anything over 12 months, there's interest. But it would be like buying a car.)

          Though not all surgeons accept it/not all accept every payment plan. Like I have already been in contact and plan on going to Beverly Fischer in Maryland, and she only takes 6, 24, or 36 months, so I'll probably be doing the 24 month plan.
npulse
iShotElmo8D
npulse
iShotElmo8D
npulse
iShotElmo8D

Wow, hope you find a nice place...unless you already have. blaugh



I've found a few apartments I like but I need to be able to get a job there first and that's just not going well. No one wants to hire, let alone hire someone not even living in the same state gonk

Ouch, I'm sorry. razz Samething happened with my brother.



Was there anything he did to help get a job? I could use any tips emo

Not really, he was trying to apply for marketing places like Target and stuff, but they didn't accept his applications. He goes to a university now, though.



Dang. This is being such a pain but I really need and want to move *sigh* BAH.

Hmmm. >_< I wish you luck. heart
Seraph of Thursday's avatar

Lonely Saint

Dandrogyny
Yeah, always remember you can switch therapists if someone is giving you a hard time.

Yeah, the voice change is totally permanent and that's one of the perks of testosterone. For FtMs anyway. For MtFs it takes a lot of work to change their voice.
Don't worry too much about the lifespan issue. Everyone tells me I'm wrong. >_> Show me examples of trans men in their 80's and I'll stop worrying.

Not really. I have no idea what your relationship with your sister is like. Sounds pretty good and like you two are rather close. You could just be like, "Sis, I gotta talk to you about something important," or something. I'm sure she'd understand.

I think there are many reasons to why transguys die earlier rather than just taking T, really. First off we need to consider the fact that testosterone DOES often decrease lifespan, although many of those living past the 100 mark are men, many more die around the age of 60-70. Then there's the fact that our lives are often quite stressful for years and years and years - stress leaves a mark on your life expectancy. Given that testosterone also predisposes you to heart and blood pressure related problems, stress is a killer in the mix. Now, this is anecdotal, but many transmen I know live "wild". They party hard, many do drugs, many more drink too much in general. Depression both decreases your lifespan and plays a part in developing unhealthy habits that also decrease your lifespan, and the vast majority of us experiences depression.
I'd also imagine that "unnatural" T is harder for the body to process than natural, and since T already is a hard hormone for the body, the extra burden might well play another minor part in the combination.
Personally, I'm still probably quitting T in some odd years. After 45 for certain,<hopeforfuture> unless I've been given a d**k at that point.</hopeforfuture> At that point, my estrogen levels won't go back to sky high anymore and a man's testosterone levels start to drop just like a woman's estrogen levels, so hopefully the emotional rollercoaster will not hit me like a train either. gonk I just personally prefer osteoporosis to heart attacks and if estrogen will reduce the chance to get those, I'm all for it.

For the sister part...
My sister was excited to finally have a brother, lol. That was her primary reaction: "I've always wanted a brother!" For the record, she's 34.

Anyway - I have a complete first world problem here. I cannot remember whether or not I applied T yesterday. sweatdrop I'll wait a couple more hours and apply today's dose, if I did it yesterday I did it around 2pm but I can't remember, so I'm playing it safe and applying earlier today in case my levels are ******** up. And they ******** up fast. The last time I was off for 24 hours, I went moody like someone was emotionally stomping all over me the whole time.
npulse's avatar

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Ouch, I'm sorry. razz Samething happened with my brother.



Was there anything he did to help get a job? I could use any tips emo

Not really, he was trying to apply for marketing places like Target and stuff, but they didn't accept his applications. He goes to a university now, though.



Dang. This is being such a pain but I really need and want to move *sigh* BAH.

Hmmm. >_< I wish you luck. heart



Thanks whee heart

So has your parents made anymore actions that are "suspicious"?
npulse
iShotElmo8D
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iShotElmo8D
npulse
iShotElmo8D

Ouch, I'm sorry. razz Samething happened with my brother.



Was there anything he did to help get a job? I could use any tips emo

Not really, he was trying to apply for marketing places like Target and stuff, but they didn't accept his applications. He goes to a university now, though.



Dang. This is being such a pain but I really need and want to move *sigh* BAH.

Hmmm. >_< I wish you luck. heart



Thanks whee heart

So has your parents made anymore actions that are "suspicious"?

Not really, not today..However, I'm kind of depressed. confused
Desideraht's avatar

Dapper Phantom

[Muffins of DOOM]
Dandrogyny
You're doing good! You're 1/4 there! That's promising!

Care credit? That's... interesting. Does it have ridiculous interest? I'd do something like that, byt I don't need debt. I'm gonna save for the whole thing and probably have surgery by like Aug 2013. Depending on what's available.

          Yeah, considering I saved almost $2000 in about 2 months, I'm pretty excited. But I want it done asap, cause the amount of dysphoria I have+the pain binding is starting to give me is getting crazy.

          It does have ridiculous interest if you don't pay it off within the promotional period, but whenever you sign up for the card, it lets you pick how long you want to take to pay it off, and so long as you pay off the entire thing within the 6, 12, 18, 24, or 36 months, then you won't have any interest, you just pay for what you were loaned. (Well wait, I think if you choose anything over 12 months, there's interest. But it would be like buying a car.)

          Though not all surgeons accept it/not all accept every payment plan. Like I have already been in contact and plan on going to Beverly Fischer in Maryland, and she only takes 6, 24, or 36 months, so I'll probably be doing the 24 month plan.
Yeah, I can see how that really sucks. Like binding doesn't hurt for me at all, it's just annoying, and I have a STRONG desire to show my chest a lot and wear thin clothing without a binder. But that's all pretty vain. My chest is uncomfortable, but it doesn't hurt...

Wow... does that thing work in California? That sounds like a good idea if I get hired on as a permanent at my job. Then I'd have job stability and could totally pay something like that off...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the surgeon I want doesn't accept this sort of stuff. I'll consult with him when I have like 1/4-1/3 of the money I need.
Desideraht's avatar

Dapper Phantom

Oblivion Blades
Dandrogyny
Yeah, always remember you can switch therapists if someone is giving you a hard time.

Yeah, the voice change is totally permanent and that's one of the perks of testosterone. For FtMs anyway. For MtFs it takes a lot of work to change their voice.
Don't worry too much about the lifespan issue. Everyone tells me I'm wrong. >_> Show me examples of trans men in their 80's and I'll stop worrying.

Not really. I have no idea what your relationship with your sister is like. Sounds pretty good and like you two are rather close. You could just be like, "Sis, I gotta talk to you about something important," or something. I'm sure she'd understand.

I think there are many reasons to why transguys die earlier rather than just taking T, really. First off we need to consider the fact that testosterone DOES often decrease lifespan, although many of those living past the 100 mark are men, many more die around the age of 60-70. Then there's the fact that our lives are often quite stressful for years and years and years - stress leaves a mark on your life expectancy. Given that testosterone also predisposes you to heart and blood pressure related problems, stress is a killer in the mix. Now, this is anecdotal, but many transmen I know live "wild". They party hard, many do drugs, many more drink too much in general. Depression both decreases your lifespan and plays a part in developing unhealthy habits that also decrease your lifespan, and the vast majority of us experiences depression.
I'd also imagine that "unnatural" T is harder for the body to process than natural, and since T already is a hard hormone for the body, the extra burden might well play another minor part in the combination.
Personally, I'm still probably quitting T in some odd years. After 45 for certain,<hopeforfuture> unless I've been given a d**k at that point.</hopeforfuture> At that point, my estrogen levels won't go back to sky high anymore and a man's testosterone levels start to drop just like a woman's estrogen levels, so hopefully the emotional rollercoaster will not hit me like a train either. gonk I just personally prefer osteoporosis to heart attacks and if estrogen will reduce the chance to get those, I'm all for it.

For the sister part...
My sister was excited to finally have a brother, lol. That was her primary reaction: "I've always wanted a brother!" For the record, she's 34.

Anyway - I have a complete first world problem here. I cannot remember whether or not I applied T yesterday. sweatdrop I'll wait a couple more hours and apply today's dose, if I did it yesterday I did it around 2pm but I can't remember, so I'm playing it safe and applying earlier today in case my levels are ******** up. And they ******** up fast. The last time I was off for 24 hours, I went moody like someone was emotionally stomping all over me the whole time.
But should it decrease lifespan by 20-30 years? That's what freaks me out.

"Unnatural" testosterone is bio-identical, so I don't think it's harder to process.

I was just talking to my parents about why I'll probably never have genital surgery, lol. I think it's so gross. I kinda want a clitoral release, though. But that's it.

If you're on a daily dose, skipping T for a day won't kill you. Don't double dose.

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