Today is national wear red for women's heart disease!

[Robot Giny]

Burning Bonus

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

They have been doing medical research about heart problems for over fifty years. The problem is, it was not until the '80s that doctors realized that heart disease and attacks manifest much differently in women than they do in men.

While doing medical research in the past, doctors have always studied men, and have always done polls and questionaires on men, and have always enrolled men in clinical trials. The female body was considered too "finicky" and chaotic to be able to answer any solid questions on how the body works.

This is why for a very long time, women were misdiagnosed when they really had heart disease. When they had heart attacks, they were misdiagnosed, because all the information doctors had pertained to men, they just assumed that's how it worked in women, as well. No one thought to actually run some tests to prove it.

Hence, you have awareness of heart disease in women. Even today, all of our cultural messages about heart attacks still only apply to men. The clutching of the chest, the pain down the left arm...that's how a heart attack manifests in men; not in women. So if a woman is having a heart attack, a layperson won't actually be aware of what's going on, and the woman might not even realize that she's having a heart attack.

how do you know this though
cause I aint never heard of no mens heart disease nothin

Ive heard of heart disease
an now ive heard of womens heart disease

aint seem very fair to me

You're missing the point. Heart disease is the same in men and women; what is different are the symptoms that doctors use to diagnose it. And though doctors now understand those differences, it's still not understood in our society. Hence the awareness days, which is really just to let people know, "Hey, did you know that women have different symptoms of heart disease than men do?" This gives people more knowledge, and can allow folks to get themselves to the doctor if they are seeing those symptoms.

If a woman isn't aware of this, she can wait years to go to the doctor, because she's waiting for the symptoms that typically present themselves in men. (Which is our cultural understanding of heart disease.) But if she is made aware of the differences, she can know what to look for.

The fact that most people don't know this demonstrates that these awareness campaigns are still necessary, and in fact probably need to step it up a notch.

[Silly Annie]

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

They have been doing medical research about heart problems for over fifty years. The problem is, it was not until the '80s that doctors realized that heart disease and attacks manifest much differently in women than they do in men.

While doing medical research in the past, doctors have always studied men, and have always done polls and questionaires on men, and have always enrolled men in clinical trials. The female body was considered too "finicky" and chaotic to be able to answer any solid questions on how the body works.

This is why for a very long time, women were misdiagnosed when they really had heart disease. When they had heart attacks, they were misdiagnosed, because all the information doctors had pertained to men, they just assumed that's how it worked in women, as well. No one thought to actually run some tests to prove it.

Hence, you have awareness of heart disease in women. Even today, all of our cultural messages about heart attacks still only apply to men. The clutching of the chest, the pain down the left arm...that's how a heart attack manifests in men; not in women. So if a woman is having a heart attack, a layperson won't actually be aware of what's going on, and the woman might not even realize that she's having a heart attack.

how do you know this though
cause I aint never heard of no mens heart disease nothin

Ive heard of heart disease
an now ive heard of womens heart disease

aint seem very fair to me

You're missing the point. Heart disease is the same in men and women; what is different are the symptoms that doctors use to diagnose it. And though doctors now understand those differences, it's still not understood in our society. Hence the awareness days, which is really just to let people know, "Hey, did you know that women have different symptoms of heart disease than men do?" This gives people more knowledge, and can allow folks to get themselves to the doctor if they are seeing those symptoms.

If a woman isn't aware of this, she can wait years to go to the doctor, because she's waiting for the symptoms that typically present themselves in men. (Which is our cultural understanding of heart disease.) But if she is made aware of the differences, she can know what to look for.

The fact that most people don't know this demonstrates that these awareness campaigns are still necessary, and in fact probably need to step it up a notch.

kay I get that point
but why cant that be heart disease information
like why cant they give the mens an womens symptoms in the same thing

I just dont see as how it like excuses blowin off guys just cause women used to get blown off
ever heard of two wrongs dont make a right?

[LilPinkCandy]

Burning Bonus

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

yeabut what I dont get is why cant you just be aware of heart disease
like whys women get special attention

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

The signs are different, the research is almost nothing compared to men's research and medical commercials always show men in them. This is why there is awareness day for women and not men. Its seen as a men's disease but a lot of women also die of it. There should be an awareness for women in order to spread the word that more needs to be done in terms of research, awareness and education for women's heart disease. You just don't become aware of what you don't just think about like, "oh i'll just become aware of women's heart disease now".

How can you measure up?

all Im sayin is

I aint never heard of no mens heart disease thing
but Ive heard of this

dont seem fair to me

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Its fair because there is plenty of awareness already for men. They may not have a day for it but the research is is done for them as well as many many ads generated for heart medication are directed at men. This is what makes it fair. People decided to have a day for women so they could know more about heart disease in women specifically.

How can you measure up?

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Haven't you ever seen the commercials? They all focus on old men.

Here is the Go Red Movement: http://goredforwomen.org/wearredday/about/
New York Times
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/heart-disease-and-women/overview.html
http://www.bidmc.org/CentersandDepartments/Departments/Medicine/Divisions/CardiovascularMedicine/YourHeartHealth/TipsforHeartHealth/HeartDiseaseDifferencesBetweenMenandWomen.aspx

How can you measure up?

[Silly Annie]

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

yeabut what I dont get is why cant you just be aware of heart disease
like whys women get special attention

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

The signs are different, the research is almost nothing compared to men's research and medical commercials always show men in them. This is why there is awareness day for women and not men. Its seen as a men's disease but a lot of women also die of it. There should be an awareness for women in order to spread the word that more needs to be done in terms of research, awareness and education for women's heart disease. You just don't become aware of what you don't just think about like, "oh i'll just become aware of women's heart disease now".

How can you measure up?

all Im sayin is

I aint never heard of no mens heart disease thing
but Ive heard of this

dont seem fair to me

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Its fair because there is plenty of awareness already for men. They may not have a day for it but the research is is done for them as well as many many ads generated for heart medication are directed at men. This is what makes it fair. People decided to have a day for women so they could know more about heart disease in women specifically.

How can you measure up?

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Haven't you ever seen the commercials? They all focus on old men.

Here is the Go Red Movement: http://goredforwomen.org/wearredday/about/
New York Times
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/heart-disease-and-women/overview.html
http://www.bidmc.org/CentersandDepartments/Departments/Medicine/Divisions/CardiovascularMedicine/YourHeartHealth/TipsforHeartHealth/HeartDiseaseDifferencesBetweenMenandWomen.aspx

How can you measure up?

I aint never seen em no

an I aint interested in no womens only nothin
I dont like the feelin of people tellin me Im better n someone else for what I was born with
an yea I know that aint what it says but it kinda comes off that way when theres a womens only thing cause theres this unspoken feel that guys aint worth the notice

I aint like it when half the people get pushed aside just cause it was that way once before
aint excuse it to me

[LilPinkCandy]

Burning Bonus

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

LilPinkCandy

Burning Bonus

all Im sayin is

I aint never heard of no mens heart disease thing
but Ive heard of this

dont seem fair to me

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Its fair because there is plenty of awareness already for men. They may not have a day for it but the research is is done for them as well as many many ads generated for heart medication are directed at men. This is what makes it fair. People decided to have a day for women so they could know more about heart disease in women specifically.

How can you measure up?

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Haven't you ever seen the commercials? They all focus on old men.

Here is the Go Red Movement: http://goredforwomen.org/wearredday/about/
New York Times
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/heart-disease-and-women/overview.html
http://www.bidmc.org/CentersandDepartments/Departments/Medicine/Divisions/CardiovascularMedicine/YourHeartHealth/TipsforHeartHealth/HeartDiseaseDifferencesBetweenMenandWomen.aspx

How can you measure up?

I aint never seen em no

an I aint interested in no womens only nothin
I dont like the feelin of people tellin me Im better n someone else for what I was born with
an yea I know that aint what it says but it kinda comes off that way when theres a womens only thing cause theres this unspoken feel that guys aint worth the notice

I aint like it when half the people get pushed aside just cause it was that way once before
aint excuse it to me

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

No one is saying that women are better than men. What is being said is that there has been a lack of research for something that develops differently in women. When most people imagine a heart attack they imagine an old man clutching his chest. Most women and men do not know this. This is precisely why there is an awareness day.

How can you measure up?

[Robot Giny]

Burning Bonus

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

They have been doing medical research about heart problems for over fifty years. The problem is, it was not until the '80s that doctors realized that heart disease and attacks manifest much differently in women than they do in men.

While doing medical research in the past, doctors have always studied men, and have always done polls and questionaires on men, and have always enrolled men in clinical trials. The female body was considered too "finicky" and chaotic to be able to answer any solid questions on how the body works.

This is why for a very long time, women were misdiagnosed when they really had heart disease. When they had heart attacks, they were misdiagnosed, because all the information doctors had pertained to men, they just assumed that's how it worked in women, as well. No one thought to actually run some tests to prove it.

Hence, you have awareness of heart disease in women. Even today, all of our cultural messages about heart attacks still only apply to men. The clutching of the chest, the pain down the left arm...that's how a heart attack manifests in men; not in women. So if a woman is having a heart attack, a layperson won't actually be aware of what's going on, and the woman might not even realize that she's having a heart attack.

how do you know this though
cause I aint never heard of no mens heart disease nothin

Ive heard of heart disease
an now ive heard of womens heart disease

aint seem very fair to me

You're missing the point. Heart disease is the same in men and women; what is different are the symptoms that doctors use to diagnose it. And though doctors now understand those differences, it's still not understood in our society. Hence the awareness days, which is really just to let people know, "Hey, did you know that women have different symptoms of heart disease than men do?" This gives people more knowledge, and can allow folks to get themselves to the doctor if they are seeing those symptoms.

If a woman isn't aware of this, she can wait years to go to the doctor, because she's waiting for the symptoms that typically present themselves in men. (Which is our cultural understanding of heart disease.) But if she is made aware of the differences, she can know what to look for.

The fact that most people don't know this demonstrates that these awareness campaigns are still necessary, and in fact probably need to step it up a notch.

kay I get that point
but why cant that be heart disease information
like why cant they give the mens an womens symptoms in the same thing

I just dont see as how it like excuses blowin off guys just cause women used to get blown off
ever heard of two wrongs dont make a right?

But in this case, men aren't being "blown off." They're not being excluded from the discussion at all, nor are they being excluded from research.

Most people think they already know the basics of heart disease, because the information is everywhere; commercials for medication, characters on TV shows and in movies being portrayed with the disease, PSA's...most people know at least the bare bones of what heart disease is.

Which is exactly the problem, because even now, commercials for medication for heart problems still feature primarily men. Female characters on TV shows and in movies don't suffer from heart disease like male characters do. It's incredibly hard to find a portrayal of a woman having a heart attack versus finding a man having a heart attack. Only the most recent PSA's make the distinction between heart disease in men and women.

So the awareness campaigns aren't just about education, they're about re-education. They're attempting to backpedal years and years of public education and try and get the attention of people who, frankly, aren't really paying attention because they think they know all they need to know. That's why they still need to exist, and why they're so "in your face" about it.

[MegaTurkey]

LilPinkCandy

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Its fair because there is plenty of awareness already for men. They may not have a day for it but the research is is done for them as well as many many ads generated for heart medication are directed at men. This is what makes it fair. People decided to have a day for women so they could know more about heart disease in women specifically.

How can you measure up?

Honestly, I'm not trying to sound offensive here but it isn't your place to decide whether or not there is "plenty of awareness already for men." The research certainly hasn't all been done for heart disease whether it's in the male or female model and there could be vast improvements made in terms of awareness in both genders. Besides all this, you are making assumptions about a very complicated topic, most likely far out of your knowledge base (I very much doubt you are a cardiologist, let alone a qualified doctor) - you yourself have repeatedly stated that you only recently learnt there are differences (albeit subtle ones) in pathophysiology and the manifestation of symptomatology between male and female individuals. Furthermore it should be noted that you are painting many individual situations with the same brush; "heart disease" is an umbrella term covering a wide range of diseases of the heart and vascular system including disease of the heart itself, heart failure and congenital disease for example. Just because someone surprised you with information that women and men tend to have some differences in their experiences when suffering with myocardial infarction (a heart attack) doesn't mean that heart disease as a whole is significantly different between the two, let alone is it entirely different in the case of an MI.

As I have said previously, it's a bit of a shame that the politics of gender equality have been factored into this; here in the UK awareness is raised for heart disease in both men and women. I can appreciate that in the past female coronary heart disease and MI have been somewhat understated in terms of public awareness however I don't think it is ethical to exclude men from a charity event to address a set of diseases which do affect people regardless of gender.

[LilPinkCandy]

MegaTurkey

LilPinkCandy

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Its fair because there is plenty of awareness already for men. They may not have a day for it but the research is is done for them as well as many many ads generated for heart medication are directed at men. This is what makes it fair. People decided to have a day for women so they could know more about heart disease in women specifically.

How can you measure up?

Honestly, I'm not trying to sound offensive here but it isn't your place to decide whether or not there is "plenty of awareness already for men." The research certainly hasn't all been done for heart disease whether it's in the male or female model and there could be vast improvements made in terms of awareness in both genders. Besides all this, you are making assumptions about a very complicated topic, most likely far out of your knowledge base (I very much doubt you are a cardiologist, let alone a qualified doctor) - you yourself have repeatedly stated that you only recently learnt there are differences (albeit subtle ones) in pathophysiology and the manifestation of symptomatology between male and female individuals. Furthermore it should be noted that you are painting many individual situations with the same brush; "heart disease" is an umbrella term covering a wide range of diseases of the heart and vascular system including disease of the heart itself, heart failure and congenital disease for example. Just because someone surprised you with information that women and men tend to have some differences in their experiences when suffering with myocardial infarction (a heart attack) doesn't mean that heart disease as a whole is significantly different between the two, let alone is it entirely different in the case of an MI.

As I have said previously, it's a bit of a shame that the politics of gender equality have been factored into this; here in the UK awareness is raised for heart disease in both men and women. I can appreciate that in the past female coronary heart disease and MI have been somewhat understated in terms of public awareness however I don't think it is ethical to exclude men from a charity event to address a set of diseases which do affect people regardless of gender.

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

The event was created 10 years ago when there wasn't much in the way of knowledge about women's heart disease. Its a fact that most women still do not recognize the signs because when they picture a heart attack they picture someone holding their chest. This doesn't happen in women and most still do not know that. In our society we have been conditioned to think that that's the truth because of what's on television, etc. Of course I'm not a cardiologist. I know what I know because of this event. We are all still learning about it and this event should go on because there are still obvious misconceptions within our society about heart disease in women. Oh no, it does affect both genders- no one is disputing that. The point of is to make women more aware that there is a difference in the symptoms of the disease.

How can you measure up?

[LilPinkCandy]

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

Robot Giny

Burning Bonus

who told you this
I mean itd be pretty stupid not to do research on people an just focus on men
an like in what way is the meds focused at men

do the meds not work on women or somethin

like I still aint ever heard of nothin to do with just mens heart disease
but theres this with a whole day

I cant say as I agree that its fair

They have been doing medical research about heart problems for over fifty years. The problem is, it was not until the '80s that doctors realized that heart disease and attacks manifest much differently in women than they do in men.

While doing medical research in the past, doctors have always studied men, and have always done polls and questionaires on men, and have always enrolled men in clinical trials. The female body was considered too "finicky" and chaotic to be able to answer any solid questions on how the body works.

This is why for a very long time, women were misdiagnosed when they really had heart disease. When they had heart attacks, they were misdiagnosed, because all the information doctors had pertained to men, they just assumed that's how it worked in women, as well. No one thought to actually run some tests to prove it.

Hence, you have awareness of heart disease in women. Even today, all of our cultural messages about heart attacks still only apply to men. The clutching of the chest, the pain down the left arm...that's how a heart attack manifests in men; not in women. So if a woman is having a heart attack, a layperson won't actually be aware of what's going on, and the woman might not even realize that she's having a heart attack.

how do you know this though
cause I aint never heard of no mens heart disease nothin

Ive heard of heart disease
an now ive heard of womens heart disease

aint seem very fair to me

You're missing the point. Heart disease is the same in men and women; what is different are the symptoms that doctors use to diagnose it. And though doctors now understand those differences, it's still not understood in our society. Hence the awareness days, which is really just to let people know, "Hey, did you know that women have different symptoms of heart disease than men do?" This gives people more knowledge, and can allow folks to get themselves to the doctor if they are seeing those symptoms.

If a woman isn't aware of this, she can wait years to go to the doctor, because she's waiting for the symptoms that typically present themselves in men. (Which is our cultural understanding of heart disease.) But if she is made aware of the differences, she can know what to look for.

The fact that most people don't know this demonstrates that these awareness campaigns are still necessary, and in fact probably need to step it up a notch.

kay I get that point
but why cant that be heart disease information
like why cant they give the mens an womens symptoms in the same thing

I just dont see as how it like excuses blowin off guys just cause women used to get blown off
ever heard of two wrongs dont make a right?

But in this case, men aren't being "blown off." They're not being excluded from the discussion at all, nor are they being excluded from research.

Most people think they already know the basics of heart disease, because the information is everywhere; commercials for medication, characters on TV shows and in movies being portrayed with the disease, PSA's...most people know at least the bare bones of what heart disease is.

Which is exactly the problem, because even now, commercials for medication for heart problems still feature primarily men. Female characters on TV shows and in movies don't suffer from heart disease like male characters do. It's incredibly hard to find a portrayal of a woman having a heart attack versus finding a man having a heart attack. Only the most recent PSA's make the distinction between heart disease in men and women.

So the awareness campaigns aren't just about education, they're about re-education. They're attempting to backpedal years and years of public education and try and get the attention of people who, frankly, aren't really paying attention because they think they know all they need to know. That's why they still need to exist, and why they're so "in your face" about it.

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Thank you for understanding the whole point of the campaign.

How can you measure up?

[Viceroy Adrian]

Robot Giny

Viceroy Adrian

What day and color is men's heart disease, or do only women matter (as per usual)?

Stop being such a butthurt little baby all the damn time.

How about you don't be a d**k and answer the question, 'ey? You know nothing about nor know me, but that one comment warrants "all the time". How immature of you.

Robot Giny

The awareness campaign was originally created because all medical research about heart disease and heart conditions had been done on men. It was thought that women had heart attacks and got heart disease at very, very low rates. In the '80s they realized that women just manifest the condition a little bit differently, and if they had thought to research the disease in women fifty years ago when they did the bulk of the research, they would have realized that.

*claps* There you go! An answer!

All dislike about your first sentence aside, I thank you for answering the question.

[Robot Giny]

Viceroy Adrian

Robot Giny

Viceroy Adrian

What day and color is men's heart disease, or do only women matter (as per usual)?

Stop being such a butthurt little baby all the damn time.

How about you don't be a d**k and answer the question, 'ey? You know nothing about nor know me, but that one comment warrants "all the time". How immature of you.

Robot Giny

The awareness campaign was originally created because all medical research about heart disease and heart conditions had been done on men. It was thought that women had heart attacks and got heart disease at very, very low rates. In the '80s they realized that women just manifest the condition a little bit differently, and if they had thought to research the disease in women fifty years ago when they did the bulk of the research, they would have realized that.

*claps* There you go! An answer!

All dislike about your first sentence aside, I thank you for answering the question.

If you don't want me (or anyone else) to answer the question like a d**k, then don't ask the question like a d**k, okay?

And you're welcome.

[Viceroy Adrian]

Robot Giny

Viceroy Adrian

Robot Giny

Viceroy Adrian

What day and color is men's heart disease, or do only women matter (as per usual)?

Stop being such a butthurt little baby all the damn time.

How about you don't be a d**k and answer the question, 'ey? You know nothing about nor know me, but that one comment warrants "all the time". How immature of you.

Robot Giny

The awareness campaign was originally created because all medical research about heart disease and heart conditions had been done on men. It was thought that women had heart attacks and got heart disease at very, very low rates. In the '80s they realized that women just manifest the condition a little bit differently, and if they had thought to research the disease in women fifty years ago when they did the bulk of the research, they would have realized that.

*claps* There you go! An answer!

All dislike about your first sentence aside, I thank you for answering the question.If you don't want me (or anyone else) to answer the question like a d**k, then don't ask the question like a d**k, okay?

And you're welcome.

I didn't mean for it to be too dickish, I was just pointing out how there are so many people who love to point out days for women's studies, but seldom for just everyone in general who is affected, especially here on Gaia, Tumblr, etc.

[LilPinkCandy]

Viceroy Adrian

Robot Giny

Viceroy Adrian

Robot Giny

Viceroy Adrian

What day and color is men's heart disease, or do only women matter (as per usual)?

Stop being such a butthurt little baby all the damn time.

How about you don't be a d**k and answer the question, 'ey? You know nothing about nor know me, but that one comment warrants "all the time". How immature of you.

Robot Giny

The awareness campaign was originally created because all medical research about heart disease and heart conditions had been done on men. It was thought that women had heart attacks and got heart disease at very, very low rates. In the '80s they realized that women just manifest the condition a little bit differently, and if they had thought to research the disease in women fifty years ago when they did the bulk of the research, they would have realized that.

*claps* There you go! An answer!

All dislike about your first sentence aside, I thank you for answering the question.

If you don't want me (or anyone else) to answer the question like a d**k, then don't ask the question like a d**k, okay?

And you're welcome.

I didn't mean for it to be too dickish, I was just pointing out how there are so many people who love to point out days for women's studies, but seldom for just everyone in general who is affected, especially here on Gaia, Tumblr, etc.

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

That wasn't my intention at all. My intention was pointing out a campaign that has affected me personally. The AHA does other things as well such as sponsoring a camp for children affected by heart conditions. Most of us volunteers there have started out as campers as well. Although, the camp is not listed on their website because its a CHP thing mostly even though the AHA does do some things for it. The AHA also has other campaigns- one for stroke awareness and one for Hispanic heart disease awareness. I never knew it was the number one killer of Hispanics either. Like Robot said they are trying to inform people that there is a difference in symptoms and research.

How can you measure up?

[K76]

Men get heart disease too

[LilPinkCandy]

K76

Men get heart disease too

Oh, oh, how can you be good enough?

Of course they do but research and PSAs have been directed more toward men as well as medical commercials. It is only recently discovered that women present different symptoms than men. This is the point of the campaign. To provide this knowledge to women so they can protect themselves against it.

How can you measure up?