The Gorean Lifestyle~ It is not just a game

[gillian bree]

lottitheunicorn

Well, that was an entertaining thread...

I've got a couple questions, gillian, I hope you don't mind.

Questions are always welcomed because that is the only way to educate others, is it not?

lottitheunicorn

First, I'm not sure if I understood it correctly, but you, your Master, your twins and mina and her child(ren) all live together? Are mina's children also your Master's? Or did I jump to conclusions?

No, you did not jump to conclusions. Yes Mister, gillian, the twins, mina, and her daughter all live together and Master, gillian, and mina are all intimate with one another. We are a polyamorous trio. And yes mina's daughter is Master's daughter so her child and gillian's children are half siblings.

lottitheunicorn

Second, what do your children think about your lifestyle? Do they understand it? Do you practice it around them? Are they allowed to call you 'mom'?

the children are still young but yes the understand it to an extent. We practice it around them because it is who we are, but we have friends from every relationship dynamic and expose them to all of it. We will not force one view over another onto the children. They think nothing of the way we live because its what they have always known. As they get older things will be explained more in depth to them. Of course they call gillian mommy, that is who she is to them. mina's daughter calls gillian aunt gillian and the twins call mina aunt mina.

lottitheunicorn

Third, what is it like at your workplace? If you don't refer to yourself as 'I' but in third person, how do your colleagues take your seriously? No offense, I don't think your lifestyle is ridiculous or anything, I'm just curious.

Some answers would be nice, thank you smile

gillian tries to avoid situations where she must refer to herself specifically, but in those rare times when she does she has explained that she prefers third person references. she didn't go into detail about her lifestyle, she has a locking collar that looks much like a choker with a pendant attached to it (a ring is attached to it when at home or out within our local BDSM/Gorean community), and after a little while they just got used to the third person references.

[gillian bree]

Mistress Sade and Master Light, gillian humbly asks if she may post some of what you two have said in the first posts of this thread to give more of an explanation of the lifestyle in the words of others who either have been a part of the lifestyle or are now part of it.

[Marquessa_De_SadeFW]

gillian bree

Mistress Sade and Master Light, gillian humbly asks if she may post some of what you two have said in the first posts of this thread to give more of an explanation of the lifestyle in the words of others who either have been a part of the lifestyle or are now part of it.

Lovely gillian of course you may. heart

[The20]

Harley Jade Linnea

The20

Harley Jade Linnea

GSK Lives

Marquessa_De_Sade

It is not because of lack of choice...it is because of the commitment that is usually involved with Gorean dynamics. Not just from the slave to Master...but Master to slave. There is a commitment for their well being, to not just walk away because something miffed them. To work past things to a better result.
It is often far more intimate then most marriages, far more committed. It takes a level of trust most relationships do not have.

How is the commitment two way, however? A master can kick a slave to the curb anytime they please. They are under no obligations. Gor doesn't seem to be any different in that respect, and as pointed out, if one adheres to the book's for purity, a Gorean master can take their slaves life at any time they please as well. That's not two way.

Show me what country has that as a legal act. Betcha can't.

How many countries still allow slavery?

Considering the fact we're not talking about illegal slavery but a consensual relationship between two consenting adults where labels are applied that are outside the parameters of that, your comment is a bit irrelevent. She is claiming that within the Gorean lifestyle, where we have a consensual relationship where one calls themselves a slave and the other a Master, that the one who calls themselves a Master can legally kill their partner at will. I am asking her to provide proof where this is true.

If they're just pretending ... what's the point of all this?

[Marquessa_De_SadeFW]

GSK Lives

Harley Jade Linnea

GSK Lives

Marquessa_De_Sade

GSK Lives

Marquessa_De_Sade

A kajira can walk away. It is not the books...it is -real life- and yes a kajira has rights and can walk away from the dynamic. It is the skewed misinformation like you are spouting that is the most damaging.

So what was that about her saying that concept was alien to her?

It is not because of lack of choice...it is because of the commitment that is usually involved with Gorean dynamics. Not just from the slave to Master...but Master to slave. There is a commitment for their well being, to not just walk away because something miffed them. To work past things to a better result.
It is often far more intimate then most marriages, far more committed. It takes a level of trust most relationships do not have.

How is the commitment two way, however? A master can kick a slave to the curb anytime they please. They are under no obligations. Gor doesn't seem to be any different in that respect, and as pointed out, if one adheres to the book's for purity, a Gorean master can take their slaves life at any time they please as well. That's not two way.

Show me what country has that as a legal act. Betcha can't.

Note that's why I said "if one adheres to the books". I said nothing about real world legal conditions.

I cant believe I actually even have to explain this.....

people of course do not adhere to the exact word of the books...obviously.
You may then state "but...its 'gor'"
Yes....let me explain it this way, Christians are -suppose- to follow the bible...do they? Do they follow the bible to the word?
no. Allot more people are christian then Gorean.
If they did, no one would be eating fish, women wouldnt be wearing precious gems and no one would were poly-cotton blend....just a few of the things forbidden in it.
We would all own slaves(it is ok in the bible even instructed on how to treat them and sell them) we would have no issue with beating a child etc.
We do not live "by the exact word of the bible" despite people being "christian" and suppose to follow it.

To "not follow exact word for word" of a book is not some crime against a belief.
It means that those that live the Gorean Lifestyle do so with the knowledge it is -not the books-.
There are -laws- that keep people from doing the stupid.
It is -common sense-.
Just like Christians eating fish or wearing mixed fibers. It is not thought of to be a crime against Christianity anymore then a Gorean Master/Mistress not gutting their slave is a crime against the books.
Honestly it is not hard to understand.
A "Gorean slave" is someone that -willingly- gives their neck to their Owner. No different then a BDSM sub giving up their freedom(for what ever length of time) to their Master/Mistress for the moment of "play". Or for those in TPE relationships.
What I find upsetting is people that know TPE relationships that are not "Gorean" have no real issues with it....you slap on "Gorean" and somehow it becomes wrong.
Why?
I know of many subs that willingly give up total control to their Dom. I mean they are full on, do what ever I say, no disobedience...relationships with their Doms. They are not Gorean. They wear collars, some are not allowed to walk on two feet unless given permission. They do this at times from hours to days. No one bats and eye. It is the subs choice. As long as everyone is ok and it is agreed upon...hey they are adults. let them do it.
Slap on the Title Gorean on it and people will be offended, argue about it, it is wrong.
WHY?
The kajira/kajirus give their neck willingly.
They do so often with love and a trust that is amazing to witness.
They do so with full knowledge of what is expected of them.
it is will full consent. So why is it wrong and a sub that does so ok?
Yes a kajira has a choice. Yes they can leave the situation. Yes they have that option.
No it is -not the books- because there is no three moons in the sky, no sleens to worry about, we are not walking around with swords and flying on Tarns. That is -fiction-.
People in the lifestyle take the Gender hierarchy glorified in the books and take it to their hearts and live by it. Toss in a dose of BDSM and bam...you have Gor.

It is not hard to understand. Honestly.
if you argue "it is in the book" then by all means I hope you follow -every- book to the letter...even the bible. Because last I checked not even the bloody pope follows it to the letter and the fuss doesnt equal what is being thrown here.

[Phillip Light]

Harley Jade Linnea

Holy s**t, long time no see Philip. You might remember my main, Chitsa Black. If not, no worries. Glad things are going well with you and your girl and welcome back man.

Chista! Holy hell, I thought the response style seemed very familiar to me! How ya been? Thanks and it's good to be back.

gillian bree

Mistress Sade and Master Light, gillian humbly asks if she may post some of what you two have said in the first posts of this thread to give more of an explanation of the lifestyle in the words of others who either have been a part of the lifestyle or are now part of it.

Please do, gillian. Everything I say in here, I give full permission to be quoted and used. Plus, if I'm wrong about something, I'll gladly be corrected to learn more.

Also, sorry for not getting back into the discussions, but I've had a long day and feel burned out. One thing though, I have to respond to is:

Marquessa_De_Sade

No it is -not the books- because there is no three moons in the sky, no sleens to worry about, we are not walking around with swords and flying on Tarns. That is -fiction-.

The three moons and fekkin' sleens I can do without, but I'd love to walk around with a sword and fly on a Tarn.

[Marquessa_De_SadeFW]

Phillip Light

Harley Jade Linnea

Holy s**t, long time no see Philip. You might remember my main, Chitsa Black. If not, no worries. Glad things are going well with you and your girl and welcome back man.

Chista! Holy hell, I thought the response style seemed very familiar to me! How ya been? Thanks and it's good to be back.

gillian bree

Mistress Sade and Master Light, gillian humbly asks if she may post some of what you two have said in the first posts of this thread to give more of an explanation of the lifestyle in the words of others who either have been a part of the lifestyle or are now part of it.

Please do, gillian. Everything I say in here, I give full permission to be quoted and used. Plus, if I'm wrong about something, I'll gladly be corrected to learn more.

Also, sorry for not getting back into the discussions, but I've had a long day and feel burned out. One thing though, I have to respond to is:

Marquessa_De_Sade

No it is -not the books- because there is no three moons in the sky, no sleens to worry about, we are not walking around with swords and flying on Tarns. That is -fiction-.

The three moons and fekkin' sleens I can do without, but I'd love to walk around with a sword and fly on a Tarn.

Well the Tarn thing would be cool...swords. Here in the Uk you cant walk around with one. They have a law on the length of blade you can carry without having a particular license...:S seems they are fussy about the ability to gut a person or cut their limbs off. lol

[Phillip Light]

Marquessa_De_Sade

Phillip Light

Harley Jade Linnea

Holy s**t, long time no see Philip. You might remember my main, Chitsa Black. If not, no worries. Glad things are going well with you and your girl and welcome back man.

Chista! Holy hell, I thought the response style seemed very familiar to me! How ya been? Thanks and it's good to be back.

gillian bree

Mistress Sade and Master Light, gillian humbly asks if she may post some of what you two have said in the first posts of this thread to give more of an explanation of the lifestyle in the words of others who either have been a part of the lifestyle or are now part of it.

Please do, gillian. Everything I say in here, I give full permission to be quoted and used. Plus, if I'm wrong about something, I'll gladly be corrected to learn more.

Also, sorry for not getting back into the discussions, but I've had a long day and feel burned out. One thing though, I have to respond to is:

Marquessa_De_Sade

No it is -not the books- because there is no three moons in the sky, no sleens to worry about, we are not walking around with swords and flying on Tarns. That is -fiction-.

The three moons and fekkin' sleens I can do without, but I'd love to walk around with a sword and fly on a Tarn.

Well the Tarn thing would be cool...swords. Here in the Uk you cant walk around with one. They have a law on the length of blade you can carry without having a particular license...:S seems they are fussy about the ability to gut a person or cut their limbs off. lol

I remember the UK having a law about that. An old friend of mine bought a replica of He-Man's sword, and when he was taking it home, he was stopped by the police, who told him about the law. It surprised me a bit when he told me, but it does make sense. lol

[Marquessa_De_SadeFW]

Phillip Light

Marquessa_De_Sade

Phillip Light

Harley Jade Linnea

Holy s**t, long time no see Philip. You might remember my main, Chitsa Black. If not, no worries. Glad things are going well with you and your girl and welcome back man.

Chista! Holy hell, I thought the response style seemed very familiar to me! How ya been? Thanks and it's good to be back.

gillian bree

Mistress Sade and Master Light, gillian humbly asks if she may post some of what you two have said in the first posts of this thread to give more of an explanation of the lifestyle in the words of others who either have been a part of the lifestyle or are now part of it.

Please do, gillian. Everything I say in here, I give full permission to be quoted and used. Plus, if I'm wrong about something, I'll gladly be corrected to learn more.

Also, sorry for not getting back into the discussions, but I've had a long day and feel burned out. One thing though, I have to respond to is:

Marquessa_De_Sade

No it is -not the books- because there is no three moons in the sky, no sleens to worry about, we are not walking around with swords and flying on Tarns. That is -fiction-.

The three moons and fekkin' sleens I can do without, but I'd love to walk around with a sword and fly on a Tarn.

Well the Tarn thing would be cool...swords. Here in the Uk you cant walk around with one. They have a law on the length of blade you can carry without having a particular license...:S seems they are fussy about the ability to gut a person or cut their limbs off. lol

I remember the UK having a law about that. An old friend of mine bought a replica of He-Man's sword, and when he was taking it home, he was stopped by the police, who told him about the law. It surprised me a bit when he told me, but it does make sense. lol

I can understand it, though it has not stopped the "katana attacks" you hear about from time to time....though the funniest one was when the police mistook a blind mans cane for a katana..tazered him and everything.

[Peanetty Goodness]

Greetings!

As my Master, Phillip Light, stated, we started out primarily as BDSM and over the last six months or so, we've been slowly integrating more and more of the Gorean lifestyle into our BDSM one and changing some things around. As my Master also said, it has been a little tricky for us because of the town we live in.

I've been watching thread for awhile and have been a little bit shy about posting. But, I guess I will give it a shot.

Quote:

So do the other books portray Gor differently?

Yes and no. I have not read all of the books, but I have read up to six and am working on seven. I've also done a lot of research. I will say that that is neither here nor there. I am not an expert and please, anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Gor is a very harsh and brutal world in the books. Yes, people fight and many men died in wars, battles, or just random fights before they have the chance to get too old. Also, with this, many women, Free and slave, were captured by the enemy and forced into slavery at the enemy's hands. But, with that being said, Goreans did value the world they lived in and took very good care of it. They did value life. I can't find the quote I am looking for currently. If I do happen to find it, I'll post it.

Quote:

If they're just pretending ... what's the point of all this?

That would be like asking what the point of anything is. Just because there are a lot of things in the books that those who choose to be part of the Gorean lifestyle can't/won't/don't want to follow, doesn't mean that it's pretending. Our world is not Gor and while we can't follow everything to the letter, there are the principles and 'rules' that can still be followed.

[GSK Lives]

Peanetty Goodness

Gor is a very harsh and brutal world in the books. Yes, people fight and many men died in wars, battles, or just random fights before they have the chance to get too old. Also, with this, many women, Free and slave, were captured by the enemy and forced into slavery at the enemy's hands. But, with that being said, Goreans did value the world they lived in and took very good care of it. They did value life. I can't find the quote I am looking for currently. If I do happen to find it, I'll post it.

A world where rule by the sword is norm is not a world that values life, nor is one where pitting two people against each other to kill for amusement is allowed. Unless the territory portrayed in Outlaw of Gor is against the norm....

[Chieftain Twilight]

Marquessa_De_Sade

Chieftain Twilight

Marquessa_De_Sade

Chieftain Twilight

Phillip Light

You know, I'm going to point out this. Yes, Kajira, Bonds, and Thralls were property, but one main thing you haven't touched on is, Goreans valued life. Yes, a Master could do anything he wanted to a slave, but for all intents and purposes, they wouldn't. One, if they marred their slave, the value would drop considerably. Two, most Masters cared about the slaves they had. Those slaves were cared for, fed, if the Master was rich, they were adorned with fine silks, jewelry, perfumes, make-up, and other things to be more pleasing to their Master and to the eye of other Free Men who saw them.

Free Men didn't go out of their way to abuse, mutilate, or kill slaves because they got the whim. I'm sure a few did, but it was very rare. As for the commitment, a Master isn't a Master if he doesn't have the trust of his slave that she will be protected and cared for. That falls under the title of "Wannabe-Dominates." They are the ones who scream, make a scene, and proclaim to everyone that they are a true Master, no matter what the topic of conversation is at the time.

GSK Lives

Bullcrap! Gor was a world, in it's own words, where one ruled "as far as his sword could swing".

Again, my frame of refference for the books only comes from one volume: Outlaw of Gor, I admit, but in that book, good lord, so many double crosses, assassination attempts, ceremonial executions. That's the stuff of classic pulp fantasy, but Gor has about as much respect for life as Conan's Hyborean age. Rule was by the baddest or most cunning ******** who could stake a claim and off any pukes that challenged it. Gladiatorial slaves fight and kill each other was a popular pasttime. Talena in Outlaw of Gor gets thrown into a deathmatch soley out of jealousy. Does a society that value life make it's people kill each other for amusement? I don't think so.

ya know, both of you..... I really ******** hate to admit it, but... GSK actually has a point here....

I'm gonna say it; there is a HUGE difference between an ideal and it's practice. it's easy to say that a particular lifestyle doesn't involve certain behaviors as long as it's being adhered to. but when the very portrayal of the lifestyle includes cases of hypocrisy or rule-breaking, it really does hurt it's reliability. that's why rights matter. the idea that it is socially acceptable for someone to escape a harmful or toxic environment or situation. TPE relationships of all sorts involve putting ALOT of trust in the hands of another person. I have said before I somewhat admire it, and I still do. but let's not pretend that it can't be abused. that's precisely why it's Trust. it's knowing it can be abused, but still believing that it won't be.

I won't say that that is good or bad. I think it's beautiful, I do. but I also think it's risky for precisely the same reason. I wouldn't think that that sort of trust can be given so lightly. I think providing a proper set of warnings is imperative.

furthermore, I wanna touch on the whole bit about treating your slave luxuriously....

that's part of my problem with it, actually. it reminds me far too much of the middle ages, and why I consider even chivalry to be disgusting. the idea of someone of a particular status (women, or slaves, or whatever) as being dolls to dress up. that isn't really so much for their benefit, and you gave that much away with your very phrasing. you said that kajiras are dressed in riches and silks and jewelry for to make them pleasing to the eye of their Master and other Free Men. that sort of behavior is no different than fathers selling their daughters' hands in marriage as part of political or business deals, or the modern objectification of women in the modeling industry. it's a toxic behavior.

I stand by my opinion that it should always be a matter of choice. if someone wants to become a kajira or a kajiru, they have every right to do that. I won't get in the way of it. but I do think that being fully aware of what it means should be a must. the key term here is informed consent. two words. informed consent. both need to be examined and considered.

It is a choice. A kajira chooses to bare her neck to a Master.
While the books show the extreme those in the Lifestyle do not sit there and pit their slaves out of jealously to a death match. Mind you, again, how many times do we see woman going at it over a guy in vanilla relationships?
I have seen grown women screaming and fighting in the street over a guy. Not out of some Master pitting them against each other but willingly.

People keep somehow, painting a Master/slave relationship in Gor as something it is not. It is not unlike many BDSM relationships or for that matter vanilla ones.
The difference is that when a girl bares her neck....its total.
That does -not- mean in REAL LIFE she looses all rights to herself, her things etc.
Any master saying it does is a t**t waffle wanna be.
No Masters do not abuse their slaves...why would they? In the books it was even frowned upon!
In the books it was due in part to the care the master had to the slave and to their value(as in to be re-sold)...but here is the KEY...
that is in the BOOKS not REAL LIFE.
In REAL LIFE...a Master values the gift of the girls submission. Values the trust she has in them. Values them for who they are, their beauty(both physically and -mentally-) they value the whole package not just a v****a.
They protect their girl. They do not wish harm to them. They do not wish upset to them.
THAT is the REAL Gor in REAL life.
Those that -abuse- it for their own means are not gorean no matter how many times they scream they are. ANYMORE then Mr. Gray is a "master" in 50 shades.
Why? because he was a poser wanna be abuser that twisted the foundations of BDSM to suit his needs.
SAME THING with the wanna be Gorean masters.

Ill add this.
""She was not only the sort of female that he found irresistibly, excruciatingly attractive, but, to my surprise and delight, there seemed to be a special mystery or magic, or chemistry between them. Each was a dream come true for the other. She had been, it seemed in some profound genetic sense, born for his chains. They fitted together, like a lock and its key. She loved him profoundly, helplessly, and from the first time she had seen him. He, too, had been smitten."

Magicians of Gor, page 14"

It speaks of the love a Master can and most times does have for their girl.
it speaks of -love- a deep passionate -=LOVE=- for each other. A Master loves his girl.
Even when their are multiple kajira in a home...they love the girls.
YES there are poser wanna bes that do not adhere to this...but that happens in ALL relationships! BDSM, Vanilla, Gorean, all of them.

I feel that you entirely missed my point.... it was not so much a bash at gorean lifestyle, but rather a remark that if one is going to defend it they must do so in a way that takes into account the flaws of it's portrayal. it is, after all, suppose to be an adaptation of a fictional tradition, modified so as to fit within a framework of respect and informed consent. that's what everyone around the lifestyle has been telling me, anyway. so how come, when faced with the ways in which the fictional gorean traditions are frankly brutal and horrible, rather than argue that those parts have no place in real life, they are instead defended and romanticized? that's all I'm trying to say.

Because it is "in the books" portrayal. They are not a part of real life. That is why I am not defending them. The are many things in the book that are brutal. But again...it is -in the books-.
While the lifestyle takes its name and mythos from the books...it is -not- the books. Therefore what happens in the books...stays in the books so to speak.(technically speaking, you are actually taking the mythos that was practiced through human history in different cultures. You can even find mirrors of those cultures in 'Gor'. It is no more brutal than human history)
Death matches, ship raids, slave sales....that is stuff of the books.
Just like 50 shades is not an accurate portrayal of BDSM lifestyle...the same can be said for the books of Gor.
Both have a sliver of reality in them...but they are very different from real life.
If you read the "beauty" series by Anne Rice....would you say that was an accurate discription of BDSM life? the punishment wheels in public where anyone can torment a slave? The forced fittings of "horse tails" to "ponies"? the "cat" scene...with the butter....the torment of "beauty" in the tavern where she is bent over a barrel and pretty much gang raped due to her disrespect of "the captian"...would you say those are normal in the BDSM world of real life? I wouldnt say they are...beauty has no say in any of it..nor does tristan...but it is painted as "BDSM" life.
It is....a...-book-.
It is brutal, horrid, scary, titillating...but it is not real. Some of those things I am sure happen behind closed doors with consent....the same with a Gorean dynamic.

and you're right. that is in the books, not the real life of it. but that isn't what phillip argued at all. that's my point.