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I'm interested in a master/slave sort of relationship...what exactly are the benefits? complet control?
The only control a Dom/me has is the control that the sub gives them. To gain more control, you must first prove that you are worth of that trust. Just as the sub works to please their Dom/me, the Dom/me has the huge job of taking care of another human being other than themselves.
If you're looking to control someone without having any responsibility back to them, you are most defiantly looking in the wrong place.
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Well I was wondering what it about? does someone always have to be dominate or can it be reversed? I don't really know I was just curious.
Yes it can happen. TO answer both of your questions. There are some people that are known as 'switches', that are and enjoy being Dominant at times, and submissive at others. And yes some people are entirely 'bedroom' Dom/mes or subs. Slasher and I however live it as a full lifestyle.
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Hey Kaos, thinking back on the topic of switchers, it's gotta be difficult for them to be with a prominently Dominate or submissive person, doesn't it? I mean, if they need to dominate and submit, and the other won’t change roles, that's gotta be frustrating for them.
It can be Slasher. Switches tend to be either a third party in a relationship, they are submissive to the Dom/me, but still are able and allowed to Dom/me the sub. That or they are primarily bedroom players and they will take turns with whose in charge, maybe by days, or simply by who feels Dominant and submissive at the time. Dom/me switch or switch sub relationship generally don't work out very well in a 24/7 relationship simply because of a conflict of interests.
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How does being a switch impact your day to day life? If I remember correctly you're just a bedroom switch, correct? So how does that affect your relationships, choices of partners, etc? Do you find it easier to be in a more toned down or even a vanilla relationship by being a switch?
Absolutely not. I get bored very easily with relationships if there isn't something going on. My last girlfriend and I never had sex, but it was one of the hottest relationships I had because of the things we did together. Light bondage, biting, scratching, paddling. As a switch, I basically want to find someone who is decided one way or the other, and fit their personality and likes as best I can.
I honestly get no bigger turn on then doing whatever the woman wants of me. If she wants me controlling, and to toss her around and tie her up, that's fine. I get off on fulfilling her fantasy. If she wants to dominate me, whip me, and make me follow orders, that's fine too. As long as I know that she is getting what she wants.
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How "far" does the "full lifestyle" go? Or does that depend on what the partners agree to?
Both the people and the location that they are in will help to determine how public they are about a 24/7 lifestyle. Of course what goes on behind closed doors, when no one is around is an entirely different matter.
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how much of the sub's life the Dom controls.
How does employment work into the equation?
Does a sub get to keep non-shared friends?
You raise some interesting points and ask some very good questions, none of which have an obvious answer. So here is what I can tell you and I hope that my explanation helps you out.
As for how much of the sub's life is controlled by the Dom/me, again it entirely depends on the people in the relationship. Even in a 24/7 relationship you have two extreme sides, and most people tend to fall somewhere in the middle; i.e. some people have very little power exchange, some people have a total power exchange, while most people fall somewhere between the two where there is an exchange but they are constantly reevaluating it on a day to day basis. Yes a Dom/me can limit what type of food the sub eats and when they eat. An example I'll give is from a movie I mentioned to Slasher and suggested that she watch called "Secretary". In it there is a scene were the submissive Lee (Maggie Gyllenhaal) calls her Dominant boss Mr. Grey (James Spader) and the dialogue is as follows
Lee: It's porterhouse steak, mashed-- no--, creamed potatoes, green peas, iced tea, and ice cream.
Grey: Okay. Just a scoop of creamed potatoes... and a slice of butter. Four peas... and as much ice cream as you'd like to eat.
It then shows her eating with her family, all of them looking shocked at how little she is having, and the look of sheer joy on her face as she slowly chews a single pea. This actually turns into a kind of running gag as you see her sitting in a diner after Grey decides that he is 'sick' and shouldn't be subjecting her to this kind of thing, and she is eating a single scoop of potatoes and four peas, while looking miserable. And then again at the end of the movie, but I won't spoil it for you. There is also another scene where Grey tells her she may go to lunch, and she will have "The usual, but no mayonnaise this time." So yes the extent of a Dom/me's control can even reach into a submissives diet. Although like Slasher said, it would only be for the submissives benefit as it makes no sense at all to starve a submissive to death.
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And I was just kinda thinking, what are all the rules between Dom/mes interacting with somebody elses sub and vis-versa? Are there rules? Or just some unwritten code you should follow so as not to come across as rude an insulting? Also, what about an unclaimed sub? Do all the same rules apply then as well?
Basically the rules about any first time contact between a Dom/me and a sub depends partly on the situation of there meeting. Obviously if they meet on a personals site or through a classified ad the rules will be different than say, meeting a fetish club or scene bar. The basic overlapping rules are, be polite, don't grab (anything), ask for permission first, and talk. I've had many friends drag someone new up to me at a club, with my submissive at the time in tow, and make them apologize for trying to force my sub to do something she knew she wasn't supposed to, or just grab her leash and try to walk away, or some other extremely rude thing. Get one thing straight ladies and gentlemen (yes, BOTH of the sexes), just because a female is scantily dressed in tight clothes, wearing a slave collar with a leash attached to it doesn't give you the automatic right to do what ever you want because "they must be into it". That is the lamest excuse I've ever heard in my life, just like the rapist defense of "she had on a short skirt, so she was asking for it." No, coming up to you and saying "Hey, will you please rape me?" is asking for it! Learn to show some respect towards ALL of the people around you. I have never met a true Dom/me that ever thought they were 'above' or 'superior' to a submissive. However the majority of the rest of our social culture for some reason thinks of them in that exact way, and thus treats them that way. And subs are treated as inferior, there have in fact been COURT CASES where submissives were beaten, raped, tortured, and nearly killed. What was the reprecussions to the people that did this? Nothing!!!! NOTHING! Because of the VICTIMS lifestyle choice the judge deemed that it was impossible to tell if the acts were consenual or not!!!! *takes a few deep breathes*
sub/sub contact is slightly different. Firstly, I have never seen a sub grab another sub's leash, unless they are in fact a switch, grab them by the hand yes, but holding the other end of the leash is sign of the Dominant party. It shows they are the one that decides, where they are going, what they are going to do, and who makes the decisions. Dom/me-Dom/me contact is very similar to sub-sub contact in that it's less complicated, there is less ritual to the meeting. You have to understand that except for small variations every Dom/me knows just what every other Dom/me is thinking or feeling, just like how every sub is able to identify and know what every other sub is thinking or feeling. It's a much easier bond to make, Top to Top and bottom to bottom. But of course these will only develop into a very good friendship, but never a partnership. Dom/mes argue too much about who's in charge, and subs sit around doing the classic "So what do you wanna do? I dunno, what do you wanna do? Well I dunno, what do you wanna do?" when they try to form a relationship past a friendship.
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But you can't be a proper sub without a willing Dom/me, correct?
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Yes, you're doing marvelously well darlin'. Yellr you can be a proper sub without a Dom/me. Just look at and ask Slasher. She is a perfect example of a submissive female, and that shows through into ALL aspects, and relationships of her life, correct dear? While it may not be as satisfying for her to serve her strong willed friends rather than to serve a Dom/me, it's enough to get by. Would you agree or disagree Slasher my dearest?
That is very true indeed. I actually had my closest friendship end 'cause of my submissive nature. It was one of the things that led to me really looking at myself and trying to figure out why it happened. My friend, though small, had an extremely dominating personality and comanded almost all of the conversations. I happily followed her along through everything, and would do all I could to make her happy. The problem was, that she always needed all of the attention, so if I was proud of myself for doing something successfully, she would imediately come up with something that she has done better and make my achievement insignificant. Another problem was that I never got praise for the things I would do to make her happy (just a basic, 'Whatever') or my achievements, topped off with some insults and my sub nature and I was sent into a small depression. Eventually I realized what was going on and I had to stop being friends with her. I still love her like family, but I can't be around her anymore. It does show up in a lot of things in my life. For instance, all of my friends are very strong willed, and have a tendency to get extremely protective of me. I need to be around them a lot, and I love to do small things to pirk up their days. So, yes, I totally agree with you, Kaos.
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Like rather than the Dom/me and sub being sex partners, the Dom/me picking sex partner(s) for the sub.
Or a D/s relationship between persons who do not have the correct sexual orientations to be attracted to each other.
In regards to the Dom/me and sub not being sex partners, but the Dom/me PICKING sex partners for the sub... This is kinda touchy... Um... Yes, and no. Here's the explanation...
Yes there are some people that enjoy voyeurism and exhibitionism, especially when they are watching their partner with a stranger, or organizing group sex sessions for their sub (more commonly referred to as 'gang-bangs'). So yes, THAT aspect of your question does happen. Why people are into it, I will never know but like I said I'm very territorial and animalistic, even among Dom/mes (the alphas of society when you think about it), I'm one of the few that can Dom them (an alpha-alpha if you will). But that's just my opinion, is there anything wrong with it? No there isn't, it's just not for me. Now for the first part of that question, no. What people fail to realize abut D/s relationships, is that they are heavily sensual and borderline sexual most of the time. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE ALWAYS HAVING SEX! At least not the way that most people would understand it... Yes, standard penetratory (I honestly may have just made that word up) sex does happen. It is a great way end a scene, but it isn't the key purpose of it. The true purpose behind BDS&M is in fact to help another heighten their own awareness of themselves and their bodies. To teach that there is no shame in being free and open minded and most of all, UNAFRAID. Thus the reason why we have so many lurkers on this board right now. *waves to the lurkers* Because people are closed up tight, they see the things inside of themselves, things that are wonderful and natural, yet they are told to be ashamed of them. So they do. They are told that it's 'dirty' 'bad' 'not something that good people do'. And as they continue to feel more and more shame for having such desires they begin to agree. All of BDS&M and D/s is about stimulus is what I'm getting at. It's about desire. It's about taking the deepest darkest most secret part of you that fantasizes about the things that you aren't supposed to do, and it let's that out. And most importantly, it allows you to let it out in a healthy way. So no, there is really no way that a Dom/me and sub could not be sex partners because they are always going to be in some type of state of play on some level. Even without touching similiar reactions can be had simply through talking. Slasher would you care to back me up with your reaction to that story I told you?
As for your second question, it does happen. Like I said, it's not about 'getting laid'. It's about helping someone become more comfortable and at peace with who they truly are. So yes, I don't see why it couldn't happen. But it is again up to the preferences of the people in the relationship.
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So, we've done the difference between Dom/mes and strong willed persons. What about the difference between subs and persons with submissive traits?
The difference between them is fairly small. A strong willed person is different than a Dom/me in that a strong willed person is generally looking out for number 1. Where as a Dom/me is much more protective of the people around them. I'm not saying that strong willed people are manipulative and selfish or that Dom/mes aren't those things... But that is the general boundaries that I've seen. Also, Dom/mes almost never second guess themselves, they are superbly confident in everything they do, even if they do make a mistake the sheer conviction of their confidence makes it seem that they meant to do it. As for subs and submissive tendency type people, well I already answered that when for you earlier. A submissive MUST do what they can to serve everyone that they know. It's simply their calling, and what they feel the most comfortable doing. They are completely selfless givers, where those with submissive tendencies will do what they can to help others, but they stop at a certain point.
Well, you remember the story I told you on how I figured out I was a sub, right. Well, put a person with just sub traits in the same position and it would not have affected them as badly. As a sub, it sent me into a depression when I couldn't please my friend, and everytime I would try something new to get her to be happy, it wouldn't work. When I was just trying to be around her, I would be mocked and insult. For my friend it was just joking around, but when I feel that I am not pleasing her and she is calling me names, then it's like I've failed badly. For a person with sub traits, they would probably start avoiding that person and trying really hard to break off the friendship with as little confrontation as possible. As a sub, I continued to follow and try to please at the cost of my own happiness.
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Does a sub's serving everyone around them change if they have a Dom/me?
No yller, not to that extreme. But their friends, as Slasher has explained, their family yes. A random guy walking down the street? Probably not. Yes it does change. While in a D/s relationship a Dom/me and sub are totally focused and devoted to each other. Unless their agreed limits allow the Dom/me to order the sub to serve another Dom/me or the Dom/me to be served by another sub. Again it's a personal choice, but the majority of them are fully monogamous relationships. However, the sub is still expected to be on their 'best behavior' even towards people they used to casually serve. But all in all the drive and need is no longer there since it has been transferred to the Dom/me.
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Oh, and I know there are people who like to let others label themselves, like when it comes to sexual orientation and such. Should Dom/mes and subs be considered the same way, or are there people who are Dom/mes and subs who just don't know it or won't accept it, don't want to be part of the lifestyle, etc?
Ah. A very good topic to lead into a thought I had last night about words describing and used in D/s.... There are many ways to label the partners in a D/s relationship and lifestyle.. We've been calling them Dom/mes and subs throughout this entire thread. But this is where we can start to get a better look at each pairing. You have Dominants and submissives, these are pretty much the basic grouping. Then within those you have,
D- Master, Mistress, Top, Daddy, Mommy, Lord, Lady, King, Queen, etc. If it projects a mental image of authority, then it can be placed in the Dominant category.
s- slave (too many to list), bottom, 'daddy's little girl', 'momma's boy'/panty boy, and I won't list the others just because the words themselves are considered offensive by society, but I'll give a hint. I already put a * next to one today, and the others start with b,w,c, respectively.
Now one of the strangest things about the BDS&M community, is that many of these socially negative words are usually used as forms of flattery almost. I'm in no way saying that if you ever find out that someone is a submissive you should run your mouth off, calling them all kinds of insulting things... But to some it is in fact a turn on when used by their Dom/me as a term of endearment.
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You gave a list of different 'titles' Dom/mes and subs might be known as. Does usage of them mean that a relationship always falls under D/s?
And yes it does. It doesn't matter WHAT the people in the relationship consider themselves or are called, the only thing that needs to be looked at is WHAT is actually happening in the relationship. If one member is in charge all the time, and the other is loyal, trusting and does everything they are told. If their relationship contains the same highly ritualistic style. Etc, etc.
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Well, with the names in mind, we consider this to be just a general D/s relationship topic, so does that mean that then names used for Dom/mes and subs also have a link to the different types of relationships in the D/s category? Or are they just names you can use to call a Dom/me and a sub?
Generally yes, but not all the times. For instance, a Dominant and submissive could compare themselves as being on pretty equal footing in a relationship. Where as say a Master/Mistress and a slave has a greater level of power exchange within their relationship. A Daddy/daughter or Mommy/son relationship, no I'm not endorsing or condoning incest before anyone gets all huffy when reading this, is similar to an older more mature partner taking care of a more immature partner, it's an act both parties are fully aware of what they are doing again just saying this before people start getting all uppity.
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~nods~ Okay, that makes sense to me. So, do people generally start the relationship first before knowing what it is going to be, and then add the names to it. Or do they already know what they want and just use the names first?
No, they already know what they are. Then when they seek out a partner they are able to narrow down their choice by only looking for the one particular. And believe me without the specific way to associate each style of Dom/me and each style of sub things would be incredibly confusing and difficult. Because it's not just Dom/mes that actively seek out a partner, subs are just as active. It's one of the things that I think makes D/s relationships EASIER to start than a vanilla one; since you already know what to expect from the other person.
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Is the trust always automatic? And is it always at such a high level? Or does the full and complete trust develop over time as with a vanilla relationship?
Yes, the trust is built up over time. Specifically, the Dominant submissive duality must always be in balance to be maintained. The more the Dom/me does for their sub the more control and trust the sub can hand over. It's something that is earned very carefully, which is why the sub is so important and means so much to the Dom/me. Also why it is so difficult for the Dom/me because every single day in a 24/7 relationship they MUST continue to prove that THEY are worthy as a Dom/me to continue to receive the sub's gift of obedience, trust and respect as well as work towards proving that they are able to handle more. Which is why D/s relationships take so long to form. Both parties have to get into that comfort zone where they know they can trust eachother. The submissive especially will use that time to really examine everything about the Dom/me. Every reaction, word, and gesture is scrutinized 'in the butt'. Even if the doesn't realize they are doing this, and only if the sub matches up to their 'ideal' partner (within an even smaller percential of error than in a vanilla relationship) will they offer themselves. If they don't then things will generally remain at the same level. Almost all of the 24/7 relationships that I have seen, have ended up becoming permenant. I think that's the other reason, the first obviously being the safety of the sub, that it takes so long for them to form. Because each, if they are looking for more than just bedroom play (those can take shape as quickly as a one night stand and turns into a kind of 'friends with benefits' type of relationship), is looking for their ideal partner to fill out the parts of themselves that they feel are incomplete or missing. In general if proper time is taken, D/s relationships are much more fulfilling in all aspects and will last longer. Not because the sub is 'being forced to stay' but because the level of commitment and dedication is always increasing from both sides.
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If someone hasn't identified that they're a Dom/me or a sub, do they have a chance of falling into a mismatched relationship aside from seeking out less than fulfilling vanilla relationships?
Yes, that is kind of a trial and error that happens when a sub and Dom/me is new to the lifestyle. This is why an experienced Dom/me will train a perspective Dom/me or sub. Training is a little more towards the helping the sub discover what sort of sub they are rather than the Dom/me trying to turn the sub into their preferred type of sub, although it is possible for a Dom/me and sub to just get very lucky and meet under these circumstances.
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How do you go about finding someone that's into stuff like this in real life?
Going to a fetish club, or looking online to see if there is a group that meet up somewhere close to where you live.
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How does someone new in the BDS&M community approach going to set clubs, parties, and meetings? Is it really safe for an unclaimed sub to just walk into one alone?
I would suggest that those people would go to a club first, but go with the midset of being "unavailable". In other words, they are there to simply look, get to know people, and have fun. But they are not available for play. This way, regardless of whether they are with friends or by themselves they won't have to worry too much about getting into a bad situation. I would also suggest that the first time, or first couple of times, going with at least one friend. Depending on the club it may be very tame, a normal club night for people that are into the lifestyle, or it could be very extreme, with an area for some types of play to happen. This would allow the person to at least get a feel for the enviroment, and figure out if they would be comfortable going by themselves. As for the 'safety' of a sub walking in alone. My first bit of advice, leave the leash at home, or in the car. The leash on an unclaimed sub says, 'I'm available if anyone wants me', where as the ringed-collar by itself just says 'I'm a submissive'. My second bit of advice, forget that it's a fetish or BDSM club. Go, drink if you're of age, dance, and have fun. If someone comes up to talk to you, act as you feel accordingly. But there is no need to be telling everyone that you meet that you are an unclaimed sub that's new and has no idea really of what they are doing. Make some friends first, THEN work on furthering your education. Finally it will depend on the club itself. Most places are fine, just keep an eye out for creeps, and if the place is giving off a bad vibe, leave and don't look back.
Pet play is when the submissive partner takes on the role of, well... a house pet... Dogs, cats and ponies are the most common types that I've heard of. This is usually one of the least sexual types of D/s. Unless Sklave is talking about a human pet play... Where the submissive is still acting as a human but is treated like a pet.
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How do you deal with such daily life problems in a D/s relationship?
Well for one, 24/7 D/s relationships are much more open communication wise. The Dom/me has to be able to know what the sub is thinking and feeling about any particular subject or situation in order to be able to gauge their reaction beforehand. The Dom/me has to keep a very nearly close to perfect memorized record of everything their sub has said or done and be able to use that to figure all of it out. It's never "I think that my submissive will behave like this...", it must always be " I KNOW that my submissive will behave EXACTLY like this...". It can be very challenging to get to know someone just as well as you know yourself, but once you get the hang of it and if you really care about someone, then it gets easier the more you are around them. Plus if anything changes, for either the sub or the Dom/me, then there is allows the ability to talk and explain the change with someone that is openly listening and understanding, respecting and isn't judging their partner in any way.
Secondly, it takes a long long time for people to come into being comfortable enough with eachother before they agree to such a serious type of relationship. Both parties make sure that they learn as much about the other, they make it a point to see how they are when they are sad, angry, happy, stressed out, everything. For the sub, this is predominantly a safety issue. For Dom/me's it's more about seeing if they can enrich the sub's life, regardless of their mood. You said you've been with your boyfriend for two years? Or three? Either way most perspective D/s couples take about that long just to get into the semi-casual play time part of the evolving relationship. (By semi casual I meant that they are having some regular sessions, and may be having sex on an irregular base.) If things go well, and both parties are happy they will continue to make their relationship more serious, but there's never a point when they stop contantly learning about eachoter. But all in all D/s relationships are constantly changing and evolving, where many vanilla ones become stagnat thus the unhappiness and fighting.
biancaswrath
Ooo! Wait! Would you mind giving us a quick run down of all of the types/levels of submissives for further discussion before you go, please?
pets
-animal: the sub is treated as a pet, being played with like you were one, eating and drinking out of a bowl on the floor, having to crawl around on all fours, getting scolded and put in a crate when you're bad, etc. (common animals being cats, dogs, and ponies. Not sexual!)
-human: Pretty much just how you would treat a human if they were a pet...don't know how else to explain that one.
slaves: They are the most submissive of the subs. They exchange the most power with their Dom/mes.
daughter/son: Not an age thing, just a more immature and childlike sub that is with a more mature Dom/me who are their Daddy/Mommy.
brats: subs that act up and kinda break rules for punishments and are a little ornery.
biancaswrath
I more so meant the differences in a person having a submissive personality and a person being a submissive to a person (or waiting to find a person to be submissive to).
There is a definite difference between submissive person and someone with some submissive traits. Someone with submissive traits will just be the kind to sit back and enjoy someone else leading the way, and will want to do things to please others, but a sub actually has the urge to submit to someone. I don't know if it is just defined by knowing BDSM 'cause I was totally a sub before I even knew I was a sub. If someone just has a submissive personality they are really just the ones that let their friends lead, but a sub actually looks for orders, not just suggestions they can agree to. Does that help?
For questioning minds, let me sum up: A sub wants to submit to someone and take orders from them. A person with submissive traits follows others, such as friends, etc.
~giggles before putting her finger over her lips~ Shhh, don’t tell Sumni and Kaos I put this in here!
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If two zombies have sex, is it still considered necrophilia?
I don't believe it is necrophilia, but I can't recall if we ever came up with a word for sex with the undead. It's key to remember that zombies aren't dead, but undead. .. Unnecrophilia, maybe?
The word you're looking for: ambulothanatophilia. Stupid auto click.... But yes, ambulothanatophilia. Got it from ambulothanatophobia: The irrational fear of the walking dead. Or perhaps necroambulophilia from necroambulophobia: Irrational fear of walking corpses.
