Outside Observation On A Relationship

[Griseous]

How do you know if someone is into you or not?
There's a guy I like but I'm not sure if he's gay or not. sad

[Trainer Aurora Rain]

Base on the information, 50%, why? There's not enough information, and no one can predict the future, so I took into account to see the situation objectively with the simplest way: yes or no.

Even if they get together, there's a chance they will break up still due to platonic feelings, desperate to keep their friendship and past identity (dislike risks or major changes), was rushed/forced into the relationship disregarding their sexual orientation, they aren't each other's types, etc.

I've seen people get together with perseverance, some ruin relationships from obsession. It can be perceived so differently. I also have a friend who is extremely and naturally flirty that girls and guys like him, but some won't even date him despite showing heavy signs of at least a one night stand. It took him... 16 years to understand what his friends and girlfriends meant that he was too flirty and people were being flirty back to him. He's straight by the way. I am reserved and some people see me as a challenge and most don't want that much work or mystery to deal with because it'll affect their ego of how attractive they are. So whether or not the gay one is conveniently lying to himself in order to wait for the right chance, there is no way to really tell for the future if it's the right choice or not.

Anyone can start to doubt their beliefs if they are around someone they believe they can trust. It's like a bit if unintentional brainwashing from being exposed to a thought enough times or the new thought is so mesmerizing that one can't help but want to have a first hand experience to unravel this new mystery.

I think that the choices made is one does not feel regret about the choice, but aware that there will always be curiosity of taking the other choices.

Also, I'm curious why you need to put out a reward. I personally would first keep it hidden so I can see what responses I get, and if it's not high quality enough, add in a reward. I think that having a reward out in the open like this only attracts greed and detours people who have their opinions but are humble or do not believe their answers are good enough for a high reward. These are just my thoughts, though, so I'm curious what you thought about it.

[Oblivionic]

1. somewhere between 5 and 20 percent, I'd wager.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

It's a very hard guess. Though based on personal experience, if someone is definitely hetero, they recognize that it is members of the opposite gender that drive them, sexually. If the straight man, when under pressure, admits to having a slight curiosity, it is either to test himself, or to experiment. I would not say that he is variable in his orientation.

2. the 'gay' is probably deluding himself in the same way as anyone else who has a crush. It is hope with a small chance of 'success', but I would say his actions should depend on the receptiveness of the hetero male. Push for one's desires, but be respectful when another's desires are concerned.

3. I do not think there is any struggle here on the part of the hetero male. As stated above, hetero appears confident of his orientation. Further pressure by the 'gay' will probably be detrimental to the current relationship.

To the hetero: It is clear your friend wishes to advance your friendship. Be clear with your own intentions and set boundaries if necessary; or grant permissions if you decide the other way. Communicate.

To the 'gay': it is okay to be attracted to your friend. It is not okay to pressure your friend into a relationship he may or may not want. Simply discuss your motives/intentions/desires. Be ready for either outcome. Support your friend's choice, just as you would want him to support yours.

To both: respect. communicate.

[SOB GOBLlN]

1. 50%, theres really no way to determine if a relationship will come out of this or not. 0% chance of said relationship working in my opinion

2. yes, i think the gay person is mistaking themselves into thinking a relationship is possible

3. yes, the hetero may be trying to find himself or be embarrassed or scared about his sexuality

4. to both parties: communicate with each other and be honest. you are making this more complicated than it needs to be. think, sit down with each other, and really talk

[legnanellaf5]

1. Idk? Percentages are hard to do with people.
2. Mostly likely yes.
3. Maybe? At least he was in the past.

You can be straight and be close to someone affectionately, and if you use the Kinsey scale (which isnt like the be all but a thing) you can put his behaviour on a 1-2 because he identifies as straight but has done a thing with a dude. But that alone doesnt make him gay.

There is certainly a period where the straight guy was experimenting, but I wouldnt say he is now. He DID do stuff. He doesnt do it now. He has only straight porn, which makes it less of a denial thing, as well he is touchy with his friends which mans you cant take the touching to the gay guy as an isolated thing.

The whole oh he does things that would be in a relationship besides sex...is what we call a friendship. They are extremely close, and clearly the straight dude has considered a relationship at some point if those convos had happened, however ultimately you guys all need to stop pressuring him.

IF he says he is straight, says he isnt going to be in a relationship with a dude, wants to be with a female, etc...accept that. Stop trying to force a relationship that isnt happening. If in the future he suggests somethign else, then that is when you think about the possiblity. Otherwise the only option is to move on and stop pining over the straight guy. Actually overall I would say give up, because even if he did want to, he is far from being ready for a gay relationship and you dont wait for someone to maybe be what you want in the maybe future.

So straight dude- look at your actions and stop beign so flirty, you are giving wrong signals
Gay dude- stop pining over straight dude.

[Misty_Mystix]

(I'm wording this in a way assuming the OP is the gay guy or using the plural "you" just because it's easier to give this advise.)

You can't put a percentage on this, there's too many factors and it's not important when what you should do is just ask him if he is sexually/romantically attracted to any men at all. If yes, then you could ask if he is interested in dating you. Even if this guy is confused about his sexuality or is interested in men sexually a little, that's not good enough to pursue a relationship with him and he may not like men enough to pursue relationships or sex with them. To the people saying it's 50%, that's not how percentages work just because something is either "yes or no". That's like saying there's a 50% chance of a tornado occurring in your town today just because it either will or will not happen when there are multiple factors to determine if it will. More likely than not, the heterosexual male has no struggle with determining his own sexuality and just has close platonic feelings for his gay friend. The gay man is probably diluting himself with thinking they will be together, especially if the friend states he's straight, but you should just ask the friend if you can't move on and need closure.

[Lord of the Vine]

What I'm wondering is why you're looking at this from a pure logic perspective, Mr. Spock.

[PeachyPosterior]

I'm going to start by saying don't waste your gold here.
People come to these fourms because they enjoy helping.
Some are harsh about it, some are too vague, but most who post here aside from the trolls are already giving you thier unbiased opinion.

1. There's absolutely no way to predict how this'll go.
There isn't any obvious interest other than the sex, and that's just causing mixed signals. It was long ago enough that it might as well not even be looked at.

2. Yes because it's not that they WILL, they MIGHT. And even then it's not looking very likely.
There's a big difference between "I hope we will" and "we will, I'll make sure of that, some day". One is fine, the other is obsessive and probably an indicator of a deeper problem.

3. Maybe. There's plenty of people who have parents or family against that kind of stuff, hell, they might even be agaist themselves being like that.
Some people also like to experiment just to try it.
There are such a number of things going on it's not even worth trying to guess.

Regardless, he's saying he's straight and no matter what their feelings are towards him and they need to respect that.
He's "Still denying that a relationship could be forged"? That sounds like they've ask him about it a lot and I assume they've asked him recently.
It''s a friendship, it needs to be keep it at that. And until he tells them otherwise, he's not interested. That needs to be respected.

To the Gay: Essentially: back off.
It sounds like a constant pursuit of this friend and sounds like it's been ongoing for a while now. Crushes are fine, but this is looking too far into it.

To the Hetero: I'm assuming they full out know or have hints that their friend is perusing them.
But they need to talk about boundaries.
Your friend likes you, doesn't mean you should stop being friends, it means you should make it clear that X things are just out of friendship and Y things will be avoided because it gives their friend mixed signals.

[PeachyPosterior]

Trainer Aurora Rain

Also, I'm curious why you need to put out a reward. I personally would first keep it hidden so I can see what responses I get, and if it's not high quality enough, add in a reward. I think that having a reward out in the open like this only attracts greed and detours people who have their opinions but are humble or do not believe their answers are good enough for a high reward. These are just my thoughts, though, so I'm curious what you thought about it.

Some people are used to forms offering rewards, such as the avatar forums.
Some people just feel like they'll get more advice in a thread offering a reward vs one that isn't, even if it chances a lot of greedy and not really caring advice.

[Trainer Aurora Rain]

Stephnananana

Thank you! It's always thrilling to me to learn new etiquette and social rules. I can only live so much to catch up and learn with people.

[InvalidEntry401]

Griseous

Like others stated it is too difficult to put a percentage on it. Here is my opinion of it though. I think the hetero is struggling with whether or not he is gay and is a little curious, whether he was forced into saying it or not. Based off of what you wrote, the homosexual has made his feelings known to the hetero. With that being the case I think the hetero just needs time to digest his feelings and thoughts. I do think the homosexual needs to back off for the time being. Make it known to the hetero that he will only do those cute, relationship type things with the man he is in a relationship with. That should force the hetero into really thinking about how he feels and if he'd like to give a relationship with the homosexual a try. As to whether the relationship will work or not, no one knows. Can't predict the future. Good luck.

[legnanellaf5]

Stephnananana

Trainer Aurora Rain

Also, I'm curious why you need to put out a reward. I personally would first keep it hidden so I can see what responses I get, and if it's not high quality enough, add in a reward. I think that having a reward out in the open like this only attracts greed and detours people who have their opinions but are humble or do not believe their answers are good enough for a high reward. These are just my thoughts, though, so I'm curious what you thought about it.

Some people are used to forms offering rewards, such as the avatar forums.
Some people just feel like they'll get more advice in a thread offering a reward vs one that isn't, even if it chances a lot of greedy and not really caring advice.

Money is great though! I have also gotten people who have just rewarded me without advertising that they would, so yeah you can just do it without saying so as a thank you. Its a bit awkward but idk money means less now days on gaia and it is a way of showing appreciation for advice.

Although Im also someone who has gotten gifts anon or other weird stuff.

[PeachyPosterior]

legnanellaf5

Stephnananana

Trainer Aurora Rain

Also, I'm curious why you need to put out a reward. I personally would first keep it hidden so I can see what responses I get, and if it's not high quality enough, add in a reward. I think that having a reward out in the open like this only attracts greed and detours people who have their opinions but are humble or do not believe their answers are good enough for a high reward. These are just my thoughts, though, so I'm curious what you thought about it.

Some people are used to forms offering rewards, such as the avatar forums.
Some people just feel like they'll get more advice in a thread offering a reward vs one that isn't, even if it chances a lot of greedy and not really caring advice.

Money is great though! I have also gotten people who have just rewarded me without advertising that they would, so yeah you can just do it without saying so as a thank you. Its a bit awkward but idk money means less now days on gaia and it is a way of showing appreciation for advice.

Although Im also someone who has gotten gifts anon or other weird stuff.

I appreciate them a lot more when it's used as a thank you rather than an incentive.
I feel like trying to put it in the title to get people to respond either means you want fast responses or its a desperate enough topic to warrant a reward.

[The Luminosity]

Griseous

Hey there, I could really use some help resolving a decade-long mystery of dreams and nightmares.
Please keep in mind I am not revealing which side I am on in this observation, to prevent bias responses. (I'm helping a friend out.) *The wording of this timeline tree has been carefully worded and wholly intended*
*Both parties are male. One is heterosexual and the other is homosexual.

Whosoever answers or advises the most unbiased and logical response will be rewarded with 9,900,000,000 gaia gold.

Questions:

1. Based on a percentage of 1%-100% (100% being most likely) what are the chances that both may wind up being in a relationship together?

2. Is the gay diluting their self with the thought that the two of them will be together some day?

3. Is the hetero struggling to find their sexual orientation?
(Although the hetero claimed that they "know" they are straight. On one occasion claimed to be "curious" but the information was forced.)

Final: What would you say to either person in this observation if given the chance.
(Imagine a talkshow-esque scenario where you are the person picked from the audience.)

- Thanks in advance

RELATIONSHIP INFORMATION:

Summary:

Mutual friendship on both ends all the while
knowing the other is wanting more than friendship.

"Assures the other that they are straight" [To this day this claim is heavily made]

Wrestling, Touching (In a joking manner) [A characteristic that has never gone away]

Both do things that would
normally be done in a relationship minus sexual occurrences and kissing.

The "touchy feely" trait the straight person displays is ALSO used on people other than the two observed.

Secret conquests on the beloved have been performed, (Porn folder was found and skimmed) nothing but straight porn has ever been found.

Display of the desire to be with the opposite sex is constant with the "straight one" in this observable relationship. [A characteristic that has never gone away]

Both have had sexual intercourse with each other several times. [Only during this time period of 5 years ago]

Verbal fight, physical fight [Most dark time in timeline, happened only once]

(Parent war)

Separation

One side in pursuit of the other, all the while dealing with a great amount of rejection.

On and off friendship over 7 years.

(1 Parent died) [Recent]

Friendship restored

Refuses relationship, however both do things that would
normally be done in a relationship minus sexual occurrences and kissing. [A characteristic that has been restored]

One telling the other that they will never be in a relationship
together.

Both broke up with their respective partner, almost simultaneously.

Scenario of both the beloved and the unrequited did not instigate their
break-up.

Hints Of Interest And Attempting To Date
Phrases Like: "And what if we split up?"
"All my relationships fail"
"I'm not like that"

Still denying that a relationship could be forged

Lets in a kiss on the cheek, sometimes rejects it [A characteristic that has never gone away]

Now living together [Same room different beds]

The whole reward thing is a pet-peeve of mine, because it's unnecessary. This forum moves slowly and the regulars will post depending on how dire the situation is or if it's worth expressing their opinion on, so tossing in a flimsy chance to win something will not change anything except attract moocher who will try to give the advice they think you want to read with little sincerity.
---------------------------------------------------------

Anyway... Regarding the past events during this friendship, it sounds like both the men are homosexual. From how you explain the situation: it seems like one guy is struggling with his sexuality, while the openly gay guy probably became frustrated and possibly pressured the other guy for a relationship. Thankfully, the connection between the two are strong enough to rekindle the friendship.

• What I would say to the gay guy: Stop looking for reassurance, and enjoy the "friendship." You two live in the same apartment and sleep in the same room. Kissed and had sex a few times. Both of you are currently single and expressing interest in a possible relationship. You two practically are dating now, it's just one needs more time to say it out loud. Just be patient.
  
  
• What I would say to the confused guy: It's okay to like men, even better when the man is your best friend. Homosexuality is normal and has been around for centuries and at one point it was socially accepted. Humans are constantly changing the meaning of this and that as the time progresses and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to live up to what everyone else thinks is right. Just be with whoever makes you happy.

Answers to Questions:

1. 100%. They're already in a relationship, one just needs time to realize it. However, just because the two are stable now, doesn't mean the relationship is guaranteed to last.
   
   
2. He was probably putting too much pressure on the confused guy in the beginning, which made the confused guy pull away despite how compatible or good friends they are. Whether a person is gay or straight, no one likes to feel pressured into a relationship. It's very selfish.
   
   
3. Yes.

**Extra: Gay guy needs to stop pressuring him before he loses the confused guy for good. No more snooping, forcing answers, and trying to solidify the relationship. Just enjoy his company and "friendship."

[xChibi Cannibalx]

It sounds like Mister Straight just likes fooling around with people of any sex, but may have been trying to determine his sexual orientation, or he could have just been curious. If he doesnt push for anything further without the help of Mister Gay, Mister Gay should stop pushing for something further than a friendship. If Mister Gay cannot get over Mister Straight, Mister Gay should talk to him about his feelings to determine what is best for their friendship