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Magikarp used splash!
I'll admit that you do make a good point, but what I don't understand is how you can possibly say that your indie bands are any better in the aspect that you're going on about.

If Visual indie bands honestly put so much heart into their music, they wouldn't need to rely so heavily on their image in order to make it to the top. There are some notably talented indie bands out there, but a lot of them just end up sounding like everyone else--basically, catchy tunes but little real talent. In fact, I'll bet you that an incredible amount of indie bands emerging right now wouldn't even be able to make it without their image.

1. I didn't say visual.
I've seen non-visual use a drum machine. They just don't have a drummer to perform with them.

2. If we want to go with the visual aspect of it, then they're not really relying on it. They've chosen to go with a certain style that they prefer. I'm really judging the effort they put into their music and performance than the makeup that their wearing. I've also seen plenty of indies visual bands that I wish I never did. I wish I had just walked away.

Trust me. I have plenty of non indies bands that I like as well. I was just using the indies as an example because they all seem to really appreciate what they're doing because they're not there yet. That's just what I was getting at.

I also should add my disclaimer of the majority of the indies bands that I liked.. this was back in 2003. Trust me. I know that majority of them can sound just like every other one. There were plenty of bands I just rolled my eyes at because it was a bunch of highschool kids thinking "YEA! LETS BE IN A BAND!!" There's just something to them in their music, even when they are sounding the same. Its hard to explain. LOL. Maybe it's mainly to do with the performance.
Magikarp used splash!
AnCafeBouChan
( catchy tunes but little real talent. )

AN CAFE. ALICE NINE.

I prove my/your point XD

But there are VERY talented Indies bands!


Exactly.

Cept I don't like Alice Nine.

And Sadie ftw?
Me thinks that Alice Nine and An Cafe was the "bands with little talent, but have catchy tunes."

Neither are talented in my opinion. lol
I agree with a lot of what was just said, although I do like Dir en Grey a lot. I did notice that Kaoru and Toshiya specifically looked a little bored at the concert I attended during Inward Scream...towards the end, they seemed to perk up though. The other three however, seemed to be really into it...Shinya was really bouncy and crazy behind the drums, Kyo was everywhere...and Die seemed to be having a good time...but I guess I see where they've lost some of their enthusiasm compared to their old lives.

I'd have to disagree with Shinya being lazy about his drumstick throwing though...he did throw one while walking away, but his first one...he tossed to the waaaaay back of the crowd (where I was standing). I almost caught it...so that doesn't really seem lazy to me...

And I happen to like Alice Nine. . .*shrinks*
FuzzyLarryTheLlama
I agree with a lot of what was just said, although I do like Dir en Grey a lot. I did notice that Kaoru and Toshiya specifically looked a little bored at the concert I attended during Inward Scream...towards the end, they seemed to perk up though. The other three however, seemed to be really into it...Shinya was really bouncy and crazy behind the drums, Kyo was everywhere...and Die seemed to be having a good time...but I guess I see where they've lost some of their enthusiasm compared to their old lives.

I'd have to disagree with Shinya being lazy about his drumstick throwing though...he did throw one while walking away, but his first one...he tossed to the waaaaay back of the crowd (where I was standing). I almost caught it...so that doesn't really seem lazy to me...

And I happen to like Alice Nine. . .*shrinks*
Majority of the time when he tosses them, it is the same as was said. Just a side toss, doesn't really care.

The only thing I have to say about them being all over the stage...
When an actor cries, are they really sad about the issue? or is it just an act? Actors get on stage and perform for a crowd. They act one way, and when they get off the stage, they act another. It could possibly be a performance in all.
i know everything
Magikarp used splash!
I'll admit that you do make a good point, but what I don't understand is how you can possibly say that your indie bands are any better in the aspect that you're going on about.

If Visual indie bands honestly put so much heart into their music, they wouldn't need to rely so heavily on their image in order to make it to the top. There are some notably talented indie bands out there, but a lot of them just end up sounding like everyone else--basically, catchy tunes but little real talent. In fact, I'll bet you that an incredible amount of indie bands emerging right now wouldn't even be able to make it without their image.

1. I didn't say visual.
I've seen non-visual use a drum machine. They just don't have a drummer to perform with them.

2. If we want to go with the visual aspect of it, then they're not really relying on it. They've chosen to go with a certain style that they prefer. I'm really judging the effort they put into their music and performance than the makeup that their wearing. I've also seen plenty of indies visual bands that I wish I never did. I wish I had just walked away.

Trust me. I have plenty of non indies bands that I like as well. I was just using the indies as an example because they all seem to really appreciate what they're doing because they're not there yet. That's just what I was getting at.

I also should add my disclaimer of the majority of the indies bands that I liked.. this was back in 2003. Trust me. I know that majority of them can sound just like every other one. There were plenty of bands I just rolled my eyes at because it was a bunch of highschool kids thinking "YEA! LETS BE IN A BAND!!" There's just something to them in their music, even when they are sounding the same. Its hard to explain. LOL. Maybe it's mainly to do with the performance.


1.) You're right, my bad.

2.) If you'll notice, there have been a lot of Visual bands that drop said image once they've gained enough popularity, which implies that the image was needed to help in getting them out there. Obviously that doesn't apply to all of the bands, but it is a common thing.

And I do understand where you're coming from. Clearly not everybody shares the same opinion, so you know~
i know everything
Magikarp used splash!
AnCafeBouChan
( catchy tunes but little real talent. )

AN CAFE. ALICE NINE.

I prove my/your point XD

But there are VERY talented Indies bands!


Exactly.

Cept I don't like Alice Nine.

And Sadie ftw?
Me thinks that Alice Nine and An Cafe was the "bands with little talent, but have catchy tunes."

Neither are talented in my opinion. lol


Oh I know.

I just decided to say that I don't like Alice Nine.
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Magikarp used splash!
AnCafeBouChan
( catchy tunes but little real talent. )

AN CAFE. ALICE NINE.

I prove my/your point XD

But there are VERY talented Indies bands!


Exactly.

Cept I don't like Alice Nine.

And Sadie ftw?


Which is why I gave the example. They both have no real talent. But catchy tunes. To some.
i know everything
Violent Rain
Wait! Let me borrow that time machine! I must of missed when Diru became stopped doing music. What do they do now? I doubt Kyo is a plumber or a pro basketball player. I definatly can't see Die playing Baseball. And is Shinya doing his sheep herding?


TRASH


Re-hashed, re-made, re-used, re-abused crap. I've seen bands with 3 members and a drum machine that have more soul and originality. I guess there truly is something to be said for people who really want to get "there" and the people who feel they've already reached "there" and are on easy street. I prefer "indies" bands who haven't made it big, as you can actually hear the struggle and love and effort they put into each of their songs. Once you're on easy street, who cares if you put your whole into each song. You're just making money, right?

In the last few years, Dir en grey has probably made 3 or 4 songs that have actually distinguished themselves outside of the rest of the sloppy albums, and some of those songs are not even singles.
I wish I had the things we said 2 years ago. We had done in depth discussion of the progression of Dir en grey and through their albums.

Missa was their indies album. A lot of their songs sounded similar, and had the same beats and lines in maybe a different key, but you could hear a difference than what they have now. They did the music for them and for their fans. There was love in the music, they loved what they were making and knew they could make it big.
They were picked up by YOSHIKI for their Gauze singles and there was an immediate change in their music, but not for the worse. There was progression and innovation. Gauze was released and it was a fan's dream. Every song was different and had it's own life and being within the songs. I remember thinking only 2 songs had a similar feel to them, and for an 11 song album (Adam and Eve do not count as songs) that is incredible.
Macabre was another progression and experimentation in a newer and darker sounding music. They started to incorporate more punk-rock into the songs. Many fans yield this album to be "the best" as it showed the most creativity and musical talent overall.
Kisou was where the decline started. Every one of Dir en grey's singles had made it into the top 10 of countdowns. Some of the songs on Kisou started to blur and sound the same, however there were very distinguishable songs within it.
Obscure is where a lot of the sound changed. They went towards the popular flow of music (which is why Dir en grey is arguably considered a "pop" band, when considering the true meaning of the term). They leaned more towards a lot of thrash and the songs on the album, while some were distinct, many started to blur.
Saku came out, and someone said it best when they stated that Saku was nothing more than "Obscure II." The song had remarkable similarities, style, sound, refrain. Everything just felt the same. The same shock value was instilled, but after Obscure had been lost with the originality.
Withering to death... I can honestly say that the only songs I can remember off that CD are the singles - if even that. The songs blurred and I felt myself horribly bored with the CD. There was no more original feel. No more soul. No more effort. It sounded like the band had a deadline and a need for a paycheck.
The marrow of a bone gave me hope. I was weary due to Agitated screams of maggots, as the song felt like the band had drug their instruments across a table as Kyo strangled a sick cat, and the PV was there only to distract that there was even a song going on. But I found the first track of Marrow on radio.blog, and was instilled with hope. Perhaps they aren't all bad. Tho, after sitting down one day with the full CD, I found myself sorely disappointed. Two of the tracks stood out from the CD. Everything else was "Same old Same old." Even ASOM seemed to have blended in the CD, and 3/4th's of the way through the song I realized that I had heard it before.

The band is full of talented members who are only staying together because it's safe. Which seems to be the opposite of what Dir en grey tries to pose as. I honestly believe that the band would do well to go their separate ways and make music that they actually cared about. Dir en grey is a job. It's a way to make money. Push out the songs, get the pay check.
Its bad when you bring someone to a concert, who is not familiar with their music, and the first thing out of their mouths when you leave the auditorium is, "Wow, they looked bored."
I laughed, and told him that is what I've been saying for 2 years now.
I've seen the difference between bands that are having fun with their music, and people that just put an act on. The energies are much different.

rofl Not even 2 of Dirus songs sound close. Diru is one of the most virsitile and original bands right now. Sure, maybe not in dress, but they are completely different than even Phantasmagoria and La:Sadie's.
All i can say about Indie bands is they are still Indie bands for a reason, that reason being most of them suck.
Wow, Violent. You have really lost my respect even further. You must have read the first two paragraphs I wrote and responded to it.
You also didn't care to read any follow up comments before responding.

Out of what little respect I hold for people as human beings, I decided to give you an answer to why I believed that Dir en grey has stopped making "music." Thought out and thorough. I gave you reasons, and examples. Should I have included a graphical chart and bright colors and smaller words? Maybe a sock puppet named Larry to tell you the story.

People have responded, and have seen where I am coming from - even when they disagree with my statements, they can see the validity in my points.

However, in your responses, you have given me "HAR, THEY DON'T SOUND SAME! U JUST DON'T LIKE CUZ THEY DON'T DRESS UP." and "LOLZ INDEEZ BANDS SUCK CAUSE THEY SUCK."

So now, I will respond directly to you.
I DID NOT SAY VISUAL BANDS


And again. I wasn't really talking of the quality of the music created by indies bands, but the quality of performance and effort. Yeah, they're going to "suck" because they're new. They're not seasoned professionals, and are just starting out. But there are some VERY VERY talented indies bands. But, it is the effort that these bands put into their music and performances that make them that much better, in my opinion, than Dir en grey.
Violent Rain
i know everything
Violent Rain
Wait! Let me borrow that time machine! I must of missed when Diru became stopped doing music. What do they do now? I doubt Kyo is a plumber or a pro basketball player. I definatly can't see Die playing Baseball. And is Shinya doing his sheep herding?


TRASH


Re-hashed, re-made, re-used, re-abused crap. I've seen bands with 3 members and a drum machine that have more soul and originality. I guess there truly is something to be said for people who really want to get "there" and the people who feel they've already reached "there" and are on easy street. I prefer "indies" bands who haven't made it big, as you can actually hear the struggle and love and effort they put into each of their songs. Once you're on easy street, who cares if you put your whole into each song. You're just making money, right?

In the last few years, Dir en grey has probably made 3 or 4 songs that have actually distinguished themselves outside of the rest of the sloppy albums, and some of those songs are not even singles.
I wish I had the things we said 2 years ago. We had done in depth discussion of the progression of Dir en grey and through their albums.

Missa was their indies album. A lot of their songs sounded similar, and had the same beats and lines in maybe a different key, but you could hear a difference than what they have now. They did the music for them and for their fans. There was love in the music, they loved what they were making and knew they could make it big.
They were picked up by YOSHIKI for their Gauze singles and there was an immediate change in their music, but not for the worse. There was progression and innovation. Gauze was released and it was a fan's dream. Every song was different and had it's own life and being within the songs. I remember thinking only 2 songs had a similar feel to them, and for an 11 song album (Adam and Eve do not count as songs) that is incredible.
Macabre was another progression and experimentation in a newer and darker sounding music. They started to incorporate more punk-rock into the songs. Many fans yield this album to be "the best" as it showed the most creativity and musical talent overall.
Kisou was where the decline started. Every one of Dir en grey's singles had made it into the top 10 of countdowns. Some of the songs on Kisou started to blur and sound the same, however there were very distinguishable songs within it.
Obscure is where a lot of the sound changed. They went towards the popular flow of music (which is why Dir en grey is arguably considered a "pop" band, when considering the true meaning of the term). They leaned more towards a lot of thrash and the songs on the album, while some were distinct, many started to blur.
Saku came out, and someone said it best when they stated that Saku was nothing more than "Obscure II." The song had remarkable similarities, style, sound, refrain. Everything just felt the same. The same shock value was instilled, but after Obscure had been lost with the originality.
Withering to death... I can honestly say that the only songs I can remember off that CD are the singles - if even that. The songs blurred and I felt myself horribly bored with the CD. There was no more original feel. No more soul. No more effort. It sounded like the band had a deadline and a need for a paycheck.
The marrow of a bone gave me hope. I was weary due to Agitated screams of maggots, as the song felt like the band had drug their instruments across a table as Kyo strangled a sick cat, and the PV was there only to distract that there was even a song going on. But I found the first track of Marrow on radio.blog, and was instilled with hope. Perhaps they aren't all bad. Tho, after sitting down one day with the full CD, I found myself sorely disappointed. Two of the tracks stood out from the CD. Everything else was "Same old Same old." Even ASOM seemed to have blended in the CD, and 3/4th's of the way through the song I realized that I had heard it before.

The band is full of talented members who are only staying together because it's safe. Which seems to be the opposite of what Dir en grey tries to pose as. I honestly believe that the band would do well to go their separate ways and make music that they actually cared about. Dir en grey is a job. It's a way to make money. Push out the songs, get the pay check.
Its bad when you bring someone to a concert, who is not familiar with their music, and the first thing out of their mouths when you leave the auditorium is, "Wow, they looked bored."
I laughed, and told him that is what I've been saying for 2 years now.
I've seen the difference between bands that are having fun with their music, and people that just put an act on. The energies are much different.

rofl Not even 2 of Dirus songs sound close. Diru is one of the most virsitile and original bands right now. Sure, maybe not in dress, but they are completely different than even Phantasmagoria and La:Sadie's.


Lol okay, because half of the songs Marrow DON'T sound completely alike.

Okay.
Kaidan's avatar

Ruthless Informer

Violent Rain
i know everything
Violent Rain
Wait! Let me borrow that time machine! I must of missed when Diru became stopped doing music. What do they do now? I doubt Kyo is a plumber or a pro basketball player. I definatly can't see Die playing Baseball. And is Shinya doing his sheep herding?


TRASH


Re-hashed, re-made, re-used, re-abused crap. I've seen bands with 3 members and a drum machine that have more soul and originality. I guess there truly is something to be said for people who really want to get "there" and the people who feel they've already reached "there" and are on easy street. I prefer "indies" bands who haven't made it big, as you can actually hear the struggle and love and effort they put into each of their songs. Once you're on easy street, who cares if you put your whole into each song. You're just making money, right?

In the last few years, Dir en grey has probably made 3 or 4 songs that have actually distinguished themselves outside of the rest of the sloppy albums, and some of those songs are not even singles.
I wish I had the things we said 2 years ago. We had done in depth discussion of the progression of Dir en grey and through their albums.

Missa was their indies album. A lot of their songs sounded similar, and had the same beats and lines in maybe a different key, but you could hear a difference than what they have now. They did the music for them and for their fans. There was love in the music, they loved what they were making and knew they could make it big.
They were picked up by YOSHIKI for their Gauze singles and there was an immediate change in their music, but not for the worse. There was progression and innovation. Gauze was released and it was a fan's dream. Every song was different and had it's own life and being within the songs. I remember thinking only 2 songs had a similar feel to them, and for an 11 song album (Adam and Eve do not count as songs) that is incredible.
Macabre was another progression and experimentation in a newer and darker sounding music. They started to incorporate more punk-rock into the songs. Many fans yield this album to be "the best" as it showed the most creativity and musical talent overall.
Kisou was where the decline started. Every one of Dir en grey's singles had made it into the top 10 of countdowns. Some of the songs on Kisou started to blur and sound the same, however there were very distinguishable songs within it.
Obscure is where a lot of the sound changed. They went towards the popular flow of music (which is why Dir en grey is arguably considered a "pop" band, when considering the true meaning of the term). They leaned more towards a lot of thrash and the songs on the album, while some were distinct, many started to blur.
Saku came out, and someone said it best when they stated that Saku was nothing more than "Obscure II." The song had remarkable similarities, style, sound, refrain. Everything just felt the same. The same shock value was instilled, but after Obscure had been lost with the originality.
Withering to death... I can honestly say that the only songs I can remember off that CD are the singles - if even that. The songs blurred and I felt myself horribly bored with the CD. There was no more original feel. No more soul. No more effort. It sounded like the band had a deadline and a need for a paycheck.
The marrow of a bone gave me hope. I was weary due to Agitated screams of maggots, as the song felt like the band had drug their instruments across a table as Kyo strangled a sick cat, and the PV was there only to distract that there was even a song going on. But I found the first track of Marrow on radio.blog, and was instilled with hope. Perhaps they aren't all bad. Tho, after sitting down one day with the full CD, I found myself sorely disappointed. Two of the tracks stood out from the CD. Everything else was "Same old Same old." Even ASOM seemed to have blended in the CD, and 3/4th's of the way through the song I realized that I had heard it before.

The band is full of talented members who are only staying together because it's safe. Which seems to be the opposite of what Dir en grey tries to pose as. I honestly believe that the band would do well to go their separate ways and make music that they actually cared about. Dir en grey is a job. It's a way to make money. Push out the songs, get the pay check.
Its bad when you bring someone to a concert, who is not familiar with their music, and the first thing out of their mouths when you leave the auditorium is, "Wow, they looked bored."
I laughed, and told him that is what I've been saying for 2 years now.
I've seen the difference between bands that are having fun with their music, and people that just put an act on. The energies are much different.
tl;dr
Chatterbox is that way. neutral
Magikarp used splash!
Violent Rain
i know everything
Violent Rain
Wait! Let me borrow that time machine! I must of missed when Diru became stopped doing music. What do they do now? I doubt Kyo is a plumber or a pro basketball player. I definatly can't see Die playing Baseball. And is Shinya doing his sheep herding?


TRASH


Re-hashed, re-made, re-used, re-abused crap. I've seen bands with 3 members and a drum machine that have more soul and originality. I guess there truly is something to be said for people who really want to get "there" and the people who feel they've already reached "there" and are on easy street. I prefer "indies" bands who haven't made it big, as you can actually hear the struggle and love and effort they put into each of their songs. Once you're on easy street, who cares if you put your whole into each song. You're just making money, right?

In the last few years, Dir en grey has probably made 3 or 4 songs that have actually distinguished themselves outside of the rest of the sloppy albums, and some of those songs are not even singles.
I wish I had the things we said 2 years ago. We had done in depth discussion of the progression of Dir en grey and through their albums.

Missa was their indies album. A lot of their songs sounded similar, and had the same beats and lines in maybe a different key, but you could hear a difference than what they have now. They did the music for them and for their fans. There was love in the music, they loved what they were making and knew they could make it big.
They were picked up by YOSHIKI for their Gauze singles and there was an immediate change in their music, but not for the worse. There was progression and innovation. Gauze was released and it was a fan's dream. Every song was different and had it's own life and being within the songs. I remember thinking only 2 songs had a similar feel to them, and for an 11 song album (Adam and Eve do not count as songs) that is incredible.
Macabre was another progression and experimentation in a newer and darker sounding music. They started to incorporate more punk-rock into the songs. Many fans yield this album to be "the best" as it showed the most creativity and musical talent overall.
Kisou was where the decline started. Every one of Dir en grey's singles had made it into the top 10 of countdowns. Some of the songs on Kisou started to blur and sound the same, however there were very distinguishable songs within it.
Obscure is where a lot of the sound changed. They went towards the popular flow of music (which is why Dir en grey is arguably considered a "pop" band, when considering the true meaning of the term). They leaned more towards a lot of thrash and the songs on the album, while some were distinct, many started to blur.
Saku came out, and someone said it best when they stated that Saku was nothing more than "Obscure II." The song had remarkable similarities, style, sound, refrain. Everything just felt the same. The same shock value was instilled, but after Obscure had been lost with the originality.
Withering to death... I can honestly say that the only songs I can remember off that CD are the singles - if even that. The songs blurred and I felt myself horribly bored with the CD. There was no more original feel. No more soul. No more effort. It sounded like the band had a deadline and a need for a paycheck.
The marrow of a bone gave me hope. I was weary due to Agitated screams of maggots, as the song felt like the band had drug their instruments across a table as Kyo strangled a sick cat, and the PV was there only to distract that there was even a song going on. But I found the first track of Marrow on radio.blog, and was instilled with hope. Perhaps they aren't all bad. Tho, after sitting down one day with the full CD, I found myself sorely disappointed. Two of the tracks stood out from the CD. Everything else was "Same old Same old." Even ASOM seemed to have blended in the CD, and 3/4th's of the way through the song I realized that I had heard it before.

The band is full of talented members who are only staying together because it's safe. Which seems to be the opposite of what Dir en grey tries to pose as. I honestly believe that the band would do well to go their separate ways and make music that they actually cared about. Dir en grey is a job. It's a way to make money. Push out the songs, get the pay check.
Its bad when you bring someone to a concert, who is not familiar with their music, and the first thing out of their mouths when you leave the auditorium is, "Wow, they looked bored."
I laughed, and told him that is what I've been saying for 2 years now.
I've seen the difference between bands that are having fun with their music, and people that just put an act on. The energies are much different.

rofl Not even 2 of Dirus songs sound close. Diru is one of the most virsitile and original bands right now. Sure, maybe not in dress, but they are completely different than even Phantasmagoria and La:Sadie's.


Lol okay, because half of the songs Marrow DON'T sound completely alike.

Okay.

I must have an omniear or sumthin cuz i can tell every song from another. you want to hear bands that all there songs sound same, go listen to Tool or sumthin.

I ask of this once again:
Can we please be peaceful for the sake of music?
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Kaidan's avatar

Ruthless Informer

Violent Rain
Only bands I don't like make all the same songs. I never have anything factual to say so I sit about throwing my opinion out like it were incontrovertible. This is because I'm an uneducated dolt and I have nothing better to do with my time but feel like I know what I'm talking about when everyone around me and their dog could tell otherwise.
Fix'd.
Kaidan
Violent Rain
Only bands I don't like make all the same songs. I never have anything factual to say so I sit about throwing my opinion out like it were incontrovertible. This is because I'm an uneducated dolt and I have nothing better to do with my time but feel like I know what I'm talking about when everyone around me and their dog could tell otherwise.
Fix'd.

And I offer this, as a rebuttle: Fallacy

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