Why teachers can’t call kids ‘boys and girls’ anymore

[aeb0717]

Kinny Fear

sure but this isn't that line. it's not an over-reach to tell a little boy that if he wants to have a purse then more power to him. it's not an over-reach to ask a little girl why she doesn't think she can be a doctor.

That isn't what Step 6 does, however. Step 6 is about teachers interrupting any and all conversations between students and indirectly pressuring them into avoiding the use of gender-specific pronouns. Even so, your last post to me brings up an issue. You mentioned raising children to ask questions. Teachers aren't parents. It's not their job to raise children, but to teach. There is a difference. Raising is more personal and involved, which is why I brought up the comparison of babysitters and teachers. The differences between babysitting, teaching, and parenting are similar. More importantly, whatever "raising" teachers can do are more workable in the students' early years. Just like with parenting, they ought to start backing off in the teenage years, when gaining independence is important. Do you advise teachers attempting to "raise" 15-18 year-olds via Step 6? I cannot imagine it not infuriating at least some of the students, which would spark alot of drama.

My concern with Step 6 is how badly it would likely work with teenagers, and that it may go over the heads of parents. Angering students and their parents enough would result in this being thrown out.

[Lulamoon Sage]

Mei tsuki7

Some who are genderfluid probably use the bathroom of the gender they are expressing that day. You'd have to ask them.

See, this is what confuses the living s**t out of me about this issue. Genderfluid? If I'm getting my context right, they're people who don't always express the same gender things every second of every day. One minute they could be male, the next they could be female and after that, they might feel genderless or like both at the same time or something. I'm not gonna pretend for a second that I understand all the nonbinary stuff, but I do at least know the basics of being respectful, and asking someone what their gender is, especially someone I don't even know seems like asking for trouble. I dunno. It just seems like a very personal thing to ask strangers.

I have personally never met a nonbinary person. In my experience, they only seem to exist on the internet. Go ahead and get self-righteous and tell me how bigoted I am for admitting that if you like. Nobody likes the truth. I dunno what sort of community you live in, and I assume from the way you talk that it's teeming with nonbinary folks, but I don't live in a community like that. The way I see it, you (not you specifically) aren't gonna change the minds of folks like myself by trying to get teachers to use a few goofy terms. Don't mistake this as my refusal to learn. I want to be better, but I believe experience and exposure is the best way to teach, which is why I applaud this mother for daring to send her daughter to school the way she did.

[Mitsuki Horenake]

Ratttking

Mitsuki Horenake

Ratttking

Mitsuki Horenake

Ratttking

Mitsuki Horenake

I mean why in the world did these grown adults decide to use the words "purple penguins".

You got me. I think they're nuts.

KIDS AREN'T EVEN PURPLE.

Nor are they penguins. mrgreen

Okay, penguins I can guess. They're cute. Children are cute.

The last is a matter of opinion.

True.

[Mei tsuki7]

Lulamoon Sage

Mei tsuki7

Some who are genderfluid probably use the bathroom of the gender they are expressing that day. You'd have to ask them.

See, this is what confuses the living s**t out of me about this issue. Genderfluid? If I'm getting my context right, they're people who don't always express the same gender things every second of every day. One minute they could be male, the next they could be female and after that, they might feel genderless or like both at the same time or something. I'm not gonna pretend for a second that I understand all the nonbinary stuff, but I do at least know the basics of being respectful, and asking someone what their gender is, especially someone I don't even know seems like asking for trouble. I dunno. It just seems like a very personal thing to ask strangers.

I have personally never met a nonbinary person. In my experience, they only seem to exist on the internet. Go ahead and get self-righteous and tell me how bigoted I am for admitting that if you like. Nobody likes the truth. I dunno what sort of community you live in, and I assume from the way you talk that it's teeming with nonbinary folks, but I don't live in a community like that. The way I see it, you (not you specifically) aren't gonna change the minds of folks like myself by trying to get teachers to use a few goofy terms. Don't mistake this as my refusal to learn. I want to be better, but I believe experience and exposure is the best way to teach, which is why I applaud this mother for daring to send her daughter to school the way she did.

The thing with being nonbinary is that it, along with bisexuality, is more easily hidden then other things. Therefore it is probable that you do know of people who are nonbinary but they either do not identify as such for certain reasons (fear, lack of knowledge of terms and identities, etc) or they just stay in the closet due to it being easier. This is seen with bisexuality at least in studies done. Over 30% of people say they are attracted in some way to more than one gender/sex but only about 5% actually actively identify as bisexual. The conclusions drawn about why those percentages are different can easily apply to the nonbinary identity.

As for this specific thing, I actually do agree with you on the goofy terms. I don't think such terms help anything. What does help is what else they are doing. They're getting rid of gendered terms and stereotypes. The latter is a very good thing for everyone since it gets rid of the whole "girls play with dolls and boys play with trucks" stuff. I just don't see everyone's problem with something that is not detrimental to anyone and is actually helpful to all.

[Lulamoon Sage]

Mei tsuki7

The thing with being nonbinary is that it, along with bisexuality, is more easily hidden then other things. Therefore it is probable that you do know of people who are nonbinary but they either do not identify as such for certain reasons (fear, lack of knowledge of terms and identities, etc) or they just stay in the closet due to it being easier. This is seen with bisexuality at least in studies done. Over 30% of people say they are attracted in some way to more than one gender/sex but only about 5% actually actively identify as bisexual. The conclusions drawn about why those percentages are different can easily apply to the nonbinary identity.

As for this specific thing, I actually do agree with you on the goofy terms. I don't think such terms help anything. What does help is what else they are doing. They're getting rid of gendered terms and stereotypes. The latter is a very good thing for everyone since it gets rid of the whole "girls play with dolls and boys play with trucks" stuff. I just don't see everyone's problem with something that is not detrimental to anyone and is actually helpful to all.

Hmmm....I don't think that getting rid of gendered terms completely will solve the problem. On the contrary, I think it'll just shift the issue and make binary students feel like THEIR gender identities don't matter, which will upset their parents, and the whole issue just goes on and on like that back and forth with neither side placated. There needs to be balance somehow, a system where neither group feels excluded. I think this is a mammoth task, since there's always gonna be someone who's offended or feels left out.

[King Shining Heaven]

One school in one city in one state. How is this news again?

[Holidazed]

Young King under Heaven

One school in one city in one state. How is this news again?

Same reason why a potential legal precedent could be viewed as news. Not to mention when an idea or ideology breaks into the school system it has the ability to spread rapidly.

[Pikachew Tobacco]

What if Jimmy doesn't feel like a camper or purple penguin? What if he feels like a homo-racial, pan-sexual brontosaurus?

Pronouns should be based on what genitalia they have, not how they feel. Why are we pushing scientific labels aside for personal preferences? Kids don't care about political correctness. No one should give a ******** if little Jimmy is hurt because he's gender fluid and decided to be two-thirds girl that day. Will "boys and girls" traumatize him? No.

We're trying so hard to include everyone that we're demolishing common, harmless, simple identifiers. If you don't want to fall into a gender social construct...fine, but realize that there are biological differences between men and women that we all see and label accordingly. I'm not going to change how I refer to a group of children because Jimmy has stupid a** parents that encourage ambiguity and never told him how the world works.

[Kitty Nocturna]

Pikachew Tobacco

What if Jimmy doesn't feel like a camper or purple penguin? What if he feels like a homo-racial, pan-sexual brontosaurus?

Pronouns should be based on what genitalia they have, not how they feel. Why are we pushing scientific labels aside for personal preferences? Kids don't care about political correctness. No one should give a ******** if little Jimmy is hurt because he's gender fluid and decided to be two-thirds girl that day. Will "boys and girls" traumatize him? No.

We're trying so hard to include everyone that we're demolishing common, harmless, simple identifiers. If you don't want to fall into a gender social construct...fine, but realize that there are biological differences between men and women that we all see and label accordingly. I'm not going to change how I refer to a group of children because Jimmy has stupid a** parents that encourage ambiguity and never told him how the world works.

I have to agree with you on that. There's a difference between who and what we are and who and what we wish to be. Your gender is decided on the physical form of your body, not your mentality at the time. I have respect for people regardless of which gender they prefer to go out with. But wanting to be a girl when you're boy still makes you a girl. Same with girls that wish to be boys. Your gender doesn't change with mentality. It's the same as a Italian saying he or she is Japanese because they want to be Japanese. If you're Italian, you're Italian. A boy is a boy. A girl is a girl. Reality may hurt, but there's no depating its law. And reality's word is law.