North Korea threatens attacks on Japanese soil, Guam

[Shama_okami]

Kimjongilia

Shama_okami

I'm just pointing out that they are routinely threatening to destroy, wipe out, or otherwise attack other countries. When doing that you have to accept some of the blame should they come after you.

The South Korean government threatened to obliterate the DPRK. Can you justify that?

The DPRK is not going to attack anyone unless they are attacked first, full stop. They don't have nuclear weapons. They are not a threat.

South Korea threatening them gives them license to threaten a preemptive nuclear attack on the US? Translation: they are saying they have nukes, will attack first, and attack a country that doesn't care about them except when they saber-rattle every year over the routine military exercises.

[Lazarus Project]

Shama_okami

Kimjongilia

Shama_okami

I'm just pointing out that they are routinely threatening to destroy, wipe out, or otherwise attack other countries. When doing that you have to accept some of the blame should they come after you.

The South Korean government threatened to obliterate the DPRK. Can you justify that?

The DPRK is not going to attack anyone unless they are attacked first, full stop. They don't have nuclear weapons. They are not a threat.

South Korea threatening them gives them license to threaten a preemptive nuclear attack on the US? Translation: they are saying they have nukes, will attack first, and attack a country that doesn't care about them except when they saber-rattle every year over the routine military exercises.

No, the DPRK did not say they're going to attack first. Their armaments are for deterrence. They also do not have warheads small enough to fit on an ICBM. They have nuclear "devices", supposedly, but they're not sophisticated enough to be used in warfare. The US continues to take part in these joint military exercises with the ROK because they both think the DPRK is a threat, which they are not. Both sides need to stop playing their war games and talk this through diplomatically.

[Shama_okami]

Kimjongilia

No, the DPRK did not say they're going to attack first. Their armaments are for deterrence. They also do not have warheads small enough to fit on an ICBM. They have nuclear "devices", supposedly, but they're not sophisticated enough to be used in warfare. The US continues to take part in these joint military exercises with the ROK because they both think the DPRK is a threat, which they are not. Both sides need to stop playing their war games and talk this through diplomatically.

Read this.

[Lazarus Project]

Shama_okami

Kimjongilia

No, the DPRK did not say they're going to attack first. Their armaments are for deterrence. They also do not have warheads small enough to fit on an ICBM. They have nuclear "devices", supposedly, but they're not sophisticated enough to be used in warfare. The US continues to take part in these joint military exercises with the ROK because they both think the DPRK is a threat, which they are not. Both sides need to stop playing their war games and talk this through diplomatically.

Read this.

I have read it and I still believe that the DPRK will not attack anyone unless they are attacked first. Nonetheless, they talk like this because of their political ideology. They are fiercely independent and not afraid to show it. Note, I'm not suggesting that any side should take military action. This situation is getting out of hand and it never would've happened if those sanctions weren't imposed.

[Shama_okami]

Kimjongilia

I have read it and I still believe that the DPRK will not attack anyone unless they are attacked first. Nonetheless, they talk like this because of their political ideology. They are fiercely independent and not afraid to show it. Note, I'm not suggesting that any side should take military action. This situation is getting out of hand and it never would've happened if those sanctions weren't imposed.

I never said they would. My point was about how they SAID they would.
I'm of the opinion that if they would stop all their blustering people would stop caring about them, but they want the attention.

[Lazarus Project]

Shama_okami

Kimjongilia

I have read it and I still believe that the DPRK will not attack anyone unless they are attacked first. Nonetheless, they talk like this because of their political ideology. They are fiercely independent and not afraid to show it. Note, I'm not suggesting that any side should take military action. This situation is getting out of hand and it never would've happened if those sanctions weren't imposed.

I never said they would. My point was about how they SAID they would.
I'm of the opinion that if they would stop all their blustering people would stop caring about them, but they want the attention.

They want the attention because they see this as a part of the struggle of the working class, and they want other disadvantaged countries to follow their example. They still stay true to Communist ideology, though it's been re-packaged under Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism.

[VirginianRanger]

A good example of a desperate act by desperate people. Its sad to see the people in the North follow their leader with such blind faith that they would allow him and the military to foolishly launch a nuclear strike against anyone. China has stated that North Korea dial back the retoric a couple of notches but it looks like that has fallen on deaf ears. A shame so many innocent lives in the North will be lost for no good reason.

[Shama_okami]

Kimjongilia

They want the attention because they see this as a part of the struggle of the working class, and they want other disadvantaged countries to follow their example. They still stay true to Communist ideology, though it's been re-packaged under Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism.

I'll disagree with they why, but the point remains if you constantly threaten someone stronger than you time after time you have to expect a response.

[Lazarus Project]

Shama_okami

Kimjongilia

They want the attention because they see this as a part of the struggle of the working class, and they want other disadvantaged countries to follow their example. They still stay true to Communist ideology, though it's been re-packaged under Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism.

I'll disagree with they why, but the point remains if you constantly threaten someone stronger than you time after time you have to expect a response.

I'm reading a book about the Juche ideology at the moment and a lot of what I've read relates to what's happening recently. I don't know, I'm ready to wash my hands of this.

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

Kimjongilia

Darth Acheron

I hope those idiots realize if they did launch a missile at Japan or any of the bases, we have anti-missile defenses set up. But I agree, this is just more posturing by the North to scare its citizens.

The DPRK is not stupid, believe it or not. They know full well what they're doing. They're not at all trying to scare their own people--national self-defense is one of the three main components of the Juche ideology. The DPRK has this type of rhetoric because they believe that they need to assert their independence in the face of imperialist advances. They have had this rhetoric ever since Kim Il-sung created and disseminated the Juche ideology. All they're saying is that they are not going to let other nations boss them around.

I respectfully disagree.

While these specific statements may not be intended as inward propaganda, this familiar Dog and Pony show very much involves inward looking propaganda. Keep the siege mentality in place and all.

Just like the US needs an enemy, real or imagined, to allow for gargantuan military spending, North Korea needs an enemy to maintain Songun and all the associated phobias.

So while I would concede this instance in specific is probably not inward leaning propaganda, said propaganda most decidedly DOES exist.

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

Kimjongilia

Shama_okami

Kimjongilia

No, the DPRK did not say they're going to attack first. Their armaments are for deterrence. They also do not have warheads small enough to fit on an ICBM. They have nuclear "devices", supposedly, but they're not sophisticated enough to be used in warfare. The US continues to take part in these joint military exercises with the ROK because they both think the DPRK is a threat, which they are not. Both sides need to stop playing their war games and talk this through diplomatically.

Read this.

I have read it and I still believe that the DPRK will not attack anyone unless they are attacked first. Nonetheless, they talk like this because of their political ideology. They are fiercely independent and not afraid to show it. Note, I'm not suggesting that any side should take military action. This situation is getting out of hand and it never would've happened if those sanctions weren't imposed.

Once again, I must respectfully disagree.

The extent of this situation may not have reached this point if it were not for the sanctions, but the rhetoric most certainly would have. I've been following North Korea and their shenanigans for about 6 or 7 years now, and this is very familiar. The extremity is all that is new.

At the same time, I am not convinced it is out of hand. North Korea is just screaming louder than they usually do, and America is using that as an excuse to justify the expansion of the Military Industrial Complex, but neither side is going to do anything unless the other attacks first.

Both are working from a defensive perspective.

No matter what Propaganda North Korea spews, the US/ROK military exercises revolve around defense and counter attacks.

The matching North Korean exercises are the same, if the voices from inside are anything to go by.

The situation is less out of hand and more like this.



I can't imagine either side making the first move at this point. North Korea, for all their bluster, knows that it isn't a matter of victoriously reclaiming the peninsula and destroying all of America's pacific capabilities over the course of three days, and America really has very little to gain from it.

[Lazarus Project]

Its A Crystal

So you don't think their ideology is influencing these current events? I think I may be looking at it from a different perspective because I identify as a Marxist (I don't know if you do too) and I'm viewing this as a call-to-arms to other disadvantaged and potentially left-leaning nations. The DPRK thinks that they could win a three-day war because of the political consciousness of the army and people as a whole, and that's what they claim makes them "invincible." Thus, they want attention so the peoples of other developing nations will hear about their actions and also strive to become politically conscious.

[Shama_okami]

Kimjongilia

So you don't think their ideology is influencing these current events? I think I may be looking at it from a different perspective because I identify as a Marxist (I don't know if you do too) and I'm viewing this as a call-to-arms to other disadvantaged and potentially left-leaning nations. The DPRK thinks that they could win a three-day war because of the political consciousness of the army and people as a whole, and that's what they claim makes them "invincible." Thus, they want attention so the peoples of other developing nations will hear about their actions and also strive to become politically conscious.

Regardless of their influences or intentions their actions are reckless if not outright idiotic. It's little different from saying you're going to start shooting people so the survivors will find religion. It's just begging for all the wrong attention.

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

Kimjongilia

Its A Crystal

So you don't think their ideology is influencing these current events? I think I may be looking at it from a different perspective because I identify as a Marxist (I don't know if you do too) and I'm viewing this as a call-to-arms to other disadvantaged and potentially left-leaning nations. The DPRK thinks that they could win a three-day war because of the political consciousness of the army and people as a whole, and that's what they claim makes them "invincible." Thus, they want attention so the peoples of other developing nations will hear about their actions and also strive to become politically conscious.

If that is the case, I would argue they are living very deeply in the cold war. The proverbial battle-lines are well drawn.

Other countries such as Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, China, Etc. Are not going to see this and go "Why... We totally should do this!"

Hell, the entire playing field has moved to an economic one (Notice that when Iran/Venezuela stir up the most fear, it isn't through threats of military action, but threats of disrupting economic actions, causing problems with oil) that is why the great rivalry of our age, America and China, is not shaped by weapons stockpiles as it was in the 20th century, but through an economic batting of horns.

I don't imagine they think they are going to sway anyone to their side by doing this, because the people who would possibly find themselves on their side are already on their side (at least in opposing America)

As for the ideas of "Invincibility" that may be, but many Americans have this "HUR HUR HUR! MESS WITH US AND WE DUN NUKE DA s**t OUTTA YOU!" attitude. That does not mean those who hold power agree.

While they may outwardly claim that sort of thing as propaganda, I highly doubt it would translate to an actual belief in the corridors of power that they would brush aside South Korea, seizing the whole of the peninsula and destroying America's military might in the pacific in three days, simply because "of the political consciousness of the army and people as a whole"

In this scenario, it is important to look through the bullshit being thrown from all sides, set aside the propaganda, and consider what is really happening.

[Lazarus Project]

Its A Crystal

I don't see any of those countries you listed taking this same action either. I'm talking about the ones that have minimal development. I really hate using the term "third world," but it's those kinds of countries, the most disadvantaged, who are supposed to become "inspired." I'm not saying it's realistic, because it isn't, really. The Juche idea is quite good on paper, but it doesn't seem to fit into 21st century practices.

I know the DPRK doesn't have the military capability to defeat the US in three days. They managed to claim almost the entire peninsula during the Korean conflict, but only because they had so much help from the Chinese. Today, China would rather play the role of mediator. Times were different back then--China and the USSR competed for influence over the DPRK and Kim Il-sung routinely pissed them both off by not taking sides. That sort of political maneuvering isn't really commonplace anymore.

I imagine events like these will continue to occur in the future so long as the US and ROK hold military exercises. The reason why the DPRK's response is so very bitter this time is because the young leader needs to prove he's got a backbone.