wait where do the boys go? why are they having a six day week? that would have terrified me at that age to be with only other girls. But their hearts are in the right places.
The boys aren't going, it seems to be optional, and they're probably holding it on a Saturday so as not to interfere with regular school. This does seem to be held at the university itself anyways.
There really should be something like this for boys though. Try and get them interested in fields that are normally full of women, or to at least pursue it if that's what they really want to do.
Definitely I know plenty of boys who are discoraged from doing more "feminine" jobs. Since science and math are big "discovery" jobs with alot of positive connotations it's sad that they get more attention than jobs where you help people.
Thing is, there are plenty of "feminine" jobs like that too. Not just fashion designers and beauticians as one person said, but also nurses, librarians, and elementary school teachers are the main ones that come to my mind. My dad currently teaches third grade, and the majority of his coworkers are women. The only male teachers I had in elementary school that I remember are one of my Spanish teachers and one of my gym teachers. I haven't actually come across a male nurse nor a male librarian either.
Honestly like half my nurses were male. but I kinda meant that the jobs that make the headlines aren't youknow librarians and elementary school teachers. I think that's why they don't get more money for supporting theses traditionally feminine jobs its also like how you don't see construction worker day. I think all jobs should be honored equally but that's not going to happen. like I could explain the cycle that keeps math and science jobs in the top money making positions but I'm sure everyone is familiar with it.
Yeah, I worded that pretty badly. In my area most of the nurses and librarians I've met, school-related ones or not, have been women. I never had a male teacher for something outside of an elective/exploratory class until seventh grade. My dad is honestly one of the few male elementary school teachers I know of, and his students love him. There are probably guys who would love to do that but are afraid of potentially being labeled as a ***** when they honestly aren't.
I was trying to make a point of boys needing to be interested in the low paying jobs just as much as the high paying ones. And that there are things that they can do to help society that doesn't involve potentially risking your life like a police officer or a firefighter, nor require years of studying like a doctor or a lawyer.
Yes boys should be interested in all jobs. I think it's important to push society jobs early on in life because we need more understanding that all these jobs are required and appreciated. Honestly I would like to see some parents come with their kid to a day like this and see what they get excited about and voice their opinions one on one with a representative of the field to dispel upset. And I really wish people would check how incredibly sexist it is to say that a man who wants to work with kids is a *****. And I think there needs to be a push towards having equal representation in kid centric areas anyways more boys are discouraged early on when they don't have a male to look up to.
My comment about bringing boys down was in that context.
Yeah. Here's the thing... The focus of the article isn't about money. That's something you are reading into it. Go ahead and direct quote for me the part of the article that implies the event is an effort to raise women by making them richer.
In fact, I'm taking it a step further. I'm browsing the "Expanding your horizons program" website. I see nothing that would indicate that the goal of the project is to raise women by way of making them more wealthy.
Imagine if you would - The program and discussion of it is a big old circle drawn on the ground, and this idea that it's purpose is to raise women with money is a ball. This ball was not in the circle to begin with. It's something you've brought into the circle.
So the "context" isn't doing much to brush away how outrageous I find that statement, given that this whole financial angle is something you brought in along with the statement.
Quote:
For many years I was in a moderately high paying job in IT that I genuinely loved. And with proper counseling / guidance back when I probably could have been in one of the even higher paying tech jobs that I would probably also have loved.
Good for you. I've been working as a Librarian for a few years now and am entirely capable of supporting myself and living a happy life. I have friends with small families doing the same.
If I had been presented with a program like this that allowed me to explore the option of being a librarian around that age, and if I had been presented with the proper guidance/counseling, my entry into the field would have been far easier.
But naw. Better be safe. Don't expose boys to the idea of working in such fields.
That would be lowering them.
In the context of how much money they would make.
And really, why introduce anybody to career choices that don't make enough money?
Frankly, Career Day events should only allow adequately wealthy career representatives to attend, am I right or am I right?
(sigh)
First off, you seem to be of the impression I am some sort of "money is the only thing that matters" type of person. I'm not. But I do think that on the whole it is a good thing for people to aspire to a job that at least provides them with a modestly comfortable standard of living if they can find a job they at least reasonably like doing.
Secondly, when it comes to trying to get women into careers that are traditionally male dominated, yes, the conversation is usually about careers that tend to pay more than careers traditionally dominated by women. Just because the "Expanding your horizons network" program does not explicitly say, "MONEY! MONEY! MONEY!" and just because you apparently lack the ability to read between the lines does not mean they are not trying to get women into higher paying careers.
Expanding your horizons states their mission as
"Our mission: Inspiring girls to recognize their potential and pursue opportunities in science, technology, engineering and mathematics."
Yep! You're right! They didn't actually use the word money there.
But in general those fields pay more than traditionally female dominated career paths. Obviously you can find exceptions but overall they pay more.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics Women who usually worked
full time had median weekly earnings of $724, or 82.1 percent of the $882 median for men
(NOTE: If you multiply that $724 x 52 weeks you get $37,648 - ASSUMING they actually worked all 52 weeks of the year at that rate)
Now, gettting back to the stated goals of the Expanding your horizons program, let's look at the average salaries of those fields. Scientist average salary $81K
Technolgy
"Last year turned out to be a good one for technology employees in the United States, as average salaries for those employees jumped 5.3 percent to $85,619, according to a Dice Holdings Inc. salary survey." (NOTE: That's a 2012 figure. Probably higher now)
Engineering 2014 Engineering Salary Statistics
"Engineers Get Top Pay
What is an engineering degree worth? Year after year, engineering tops the list of majors with the highest average starting salary. The bottom line: it is well worth the time and effort it takes to become an engineer."
See the chart at link for the numbers as it depends on the field but they show starting salaries of $55-68K depending on the field and median salaries of $85-106K
So yeah, this is about encouraging women to expand into better paying careers than those traditionally dominated by women whether or not you want to acknowledge that.
Is it only about money? No.
Should it only be about money? Of course not.
As for librarian - That job has a special place in my heart because my grandmother was a librarian for many years and retired as one. My family has a love of books and knowledge and I am forever grateful that I was read a lot of books when I was very young so that I would want to read a lot of books on my own when I got older. On my 7th birthday my present from my grandmother was an unabridged dictionary, which I still have to this day. These days I usually look a word up online and mainly keep the dictionary for nostalgic purposes. For one thing, for some reason the print in that book has gotten smaller over the years (haha). But sometimes it is interesting to compare how a word is listed now vs then. Or some words that actually have a different meaning in the old print compared to now.
Librarian is not the greatest paying job in the world. Especially if a person is a librarian technician or assistant or some such and not a full fledged librarian. If you are making a comfortable living then good for you. My grandmother always struggled a bit financially, particularly after she retired. I think the only reason she manged to have a modest amount of money left when she died was due to the family letting her live in one of the farm houses for cheap / free for many years.
(NOTE: I don't know what my grandmother's actual job title was. I know she was not the head librarian. As a kid to me she was a "librarian" because I didn't even know the various job titles. In reality she was probably an assistant librarian or some such.)
The median annual wage for librarians was $55,370 in May 2012. The median wage is the wage at which half of the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $33,380, and the top 10 percent earned more than $85,430
.
Librarian technician or assistant - BLS - median pay $26,800 per year
But I do love my local library system and I appreciate the people who work there to make it such a wonderful resource for me. These days I borrow more DVDs from them and use their internet than borrowing books. In part because my eyesight is not as good as it was. But I also get audio books from them which I love.
IMO librarians are a bit like teachers in that they are probably a bit underpaid for what they bring to our society.
(sigh)
First off, you seem to be of the impression I am some sort of "money is the only thing that matters" type of person. I'm not.
Apologies. I tend to respond in a hostile manner to the statement that my career is "lowering men", regardless of context.
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But I do think that on the whole it is a good thing for people to aspire to a job that at least provides them with a modestly comfortable standard of living if they can find a job they at least reasonably like doing.
I assure you, Librarianship is entirely capable of doing this.
Of course I'd also point out that what passes as a comfortable standard of living is in the eyes of the beholder.
Quote:
Yep! You're right! They didn't actually use the word money there.
But in general those fields pay more than traditionally female dominated career paths
.
They also tend to involve wearing lab coats more than traditionally female dominated jobs. This does not mean it is an effort to get more women wearing lab coats.
The fact that the jobs pay more =/= the campaign is an effort to elevate women by way of making them richer. I see it as an effort to get women involved in the field.
FFS, look at the girl they quote in the article "I think there's no boys so it can teach girls no matter what gender you are, you can still be what you want to be," said Josie, a 6th grader. "You can be smart."
Not "You can be rich"
If 99% of authors were men, I am pretty damned sure similar groups would be out there trying to encouraging female authors, even if it isn't going to have you rolling in money.
Quote:
So yeah, this is about encouraging women to expand into better paying careers than those traditionally dominated by women whether or not you want to acknowledge that.
I'm going to have to disagree.
The premise of your argument seems to be "These jobs pay more, therefore the focus of the campaign is to get women into higher paying fields."
If that's the case, why is it focused on STEM? Why isn't it focused on how to schmooze and work your way into the "Snorting cocaine of a $1000/per hour hooker's stomach" boys clubs on Wallstreet? Because I'm pretty damned sure they'd make a pinch more money in those fields than they would as a mathematician.
I think it's because it's more about getting women involved in the STEM field than it is about getting women money that comes from the STEM field.
That is to say - Yes they pay more, but that's not the reason they want girls to be involved in it.
Quote:
Is it only about money? No.
Not by a long shot. If Scientists made pennies, I'm damned sure they'd still be pushing for more girls to get into it because innovation drives our bloody society.
Quote:
Should it only be about money? Of course not.
Thus my point.
Thus the reason I believe it would be an excellent idea to have a similar function for boys who might like to work in traditionally female dominated careers, if it appeals to them (I get the impression that this is a voluntary thing, yes? They aren't saying to girls "You want to be an artist?! Oh no you don't. You're going into STEM!"wink
Quote:
Librarian is not the greatest paying job in the world. Especially if a person is a librarian technician or assistant or some such and not a full fledged librarian.
It's not, but if a persons primary concern is gunning for the greatest paying job in the world I imagine they are going for the aforementioned snorting cocaine of a $1000/per hour hooker jobs.
Most people in Librarianship are there because they love the work in one way or another. Thus I do take slight offense at the idea of it "lowering" boys.
To be frank, I've always hated STEM-based work, but it was pushed at me as top s**t that I'm supposed to be interested in, thus I spent most of my high school career doing work I hated.
If I had an event similar to this one encouraging guys to get into Librarianship, my entry to the working world would have been a lot smoother.
To be frank, I'm highly hostile towards this idea of these fields "lowering" anybody, because I've seen University departments to them dissected, or outright torn apart, in order to make more room for STEM and Business.
The fact that the jobs pay more =/= the campaign is an effort to elevate women by way of making them richer. I see it as an effort to get women involved in the field.
FFS, look at the girl they quote in the article "I think there's no boys so it can teach girls no matter what gender you are, you can still be what you want to be," said Josie, a 6th grader. "You can be smart."
If that's the case, why is it focused on STEM? Why isn't it focused on how to schmooze and work your way into the "Snorting cocaine of a $1000/per hour hooker's stomach" boys clubs on Wallstreet? Because I'm pretty damned sure they'd make a pinch more money in those fields than they would as a mathematician.
I think it's because it's more about getting women involved in the STEM field than it is about getting women money that comes from the STEM field.
That is to say - Yes they pay more, but that's not the reason they want girls to be involved in it.
To be frank, I've always hated STEM-based work, but it was pushed at me as top s**t that I'm supposed to be interested in, thus I spent most of my high school career doing work I hated.
To be frank, I'm highly hostile towards this idea of these fields "lowering" anybody, because I've seen University departments to them dissected, or outright torn apart, in order to make more room for STEM and Business.
I chopped the post for length as I don't really want to quibble over every detail.
I've already spend enough time on this topic providing you with the links I did and such.
I think at this point we agree to disagree on the general premise that colleges and organizations are trying to encourage women into higher paying careers and that balancing the discrepancy in the average pay between men and women (in the US anyway) is a major part of the goal. This particular article does not directly address salary but I have seen many that do.
If you go back in time then traditionally "smart" jobs (doctors, lawyers, scientists etc) were usually considered "man" jobs and if women were involved they were assistants. There are some notable exceptions but on the whole that was true. To a lesser degree it is still true though that is changing. I sometimes enjoy watching really old movies. It is typically secondary to the plot and not even really part of the story line but if you pay attention to how the women are typically treated with regards to any of the "smart" jobs it is frankly appalling. And yeah, I know, "movies" but it still shows social attitudes of the time. Many of those STEM jobs pay more because it takes brains to do them and women don't have the brains for them. Or so the common thinking used to be. Related topic is (was) the view that women are too hysterical and not rational enough to do well at logic based jobs.
The reason you don't see as many programs aimed at telling boys they can be whatever they want to be is that on the whole men have always been able to be what they wanted to be.
As to your somewhat snarky comment about why not encourage them towards the jobs where you can snort cocaine off thousand dollar per hour hookers - well, one such activities are illegal. But two, I assume you are talking about highly paid executives. There are a lot fewer openings and those jobs are much less open to folks of either sex since only a small percentage of people can be the "big wigs". There are probably other factors like who you are related to, how much money your family has and whether or not you attended an ivy league college. All things the local university in Seattle can not offer. By comparison, general openings in the STEM related careers are much more open to a wide variety of people and the university has classes to teach people how to do those jobs.
Anyway, I respect your right to have a different opinion than me that this is largely about trying to get women into higher salaried jobs.
Also, I apologize if I triggered you with the lowering comment.
Again, please take it in context with my view on the salary thing. It was not meant to say that librarians or beauticians (or anyone) are somehow less worthy human beings simply because their pay is not as high. I was looking at it (and used the word lowering) in the context of trying to reduce the salary gap between the sexes. As in - work on raising the average female salary instead of lowering the average male salary. I in no way meant to imply anything about a person's worth as a human being based on their choice of career.
If money were the only measuring stick then I have certainly held some jobs during my life time that were much "lower" than a librarian. smile
Ooo i'm all for this. biggrin I'm glad they're doing this at a good time in their life, where steryotypes are really enforced.
I do kind of wish they would do similar with boys; but with fashion design, veterinarians, beauticians, etc.
Except those are all underpaid jobs. Rather than bring the boys down I think the goal is to help the girls obtain better / more affluent careers.
Fashion design is big money if you are one of the top few highly recognizable names. But for every huge name there is probably 10,000+ (100,000??) wannabes who either fail or just make "okay" wages. Beauticians are a dime a dozen. No offense to the good ones but reality is the mean pay is mediocre.
Hairdressers, Hair Stylists And Cosmetologists
The Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2011 reported a national mean annual wage for hairdressers, hair stylists and cosmetologists of $26,460 and an hourly rate of $10.85. Fifty percent of those employed made this hourly and annual wage. It listed more than 350,000 employed nationally in this category. Personal care services had the highest level of employment in this category at more than 317,000 workers. The motion picture industry employed approximately 400 in this category with the highest mean annual wage of $69,780 and an hourly wage of $33.55.
Vets get decent pay compared to beauticians but the required schooling is comparable to being a people doctor but they get about half the pay.
With an average salary of $96,140 in 2013, veterinarians earned a healthy take-home pay for health care jobs. While they earned less than physicians ($188,440), they made about three times the pay of veterinary technologists ($31,760) in 2013. They made about the same average salary as physician assistants ($94,530).
I agree it is good to teach kids they do not have to comply with gender stereotypes for their careers but I don't think pushing boys towards lower paying "girl jobs" is the answer. More like - okay to do it if that is what they have their heart set on, but don't do it because you think you can't achieve one of the loftier careers.
None of what I said is meant to be condescending to anyone in a lower paying job. I've worked everything from janitor and plant nursery "grunt" to management and business partner. Every job has a purpose and needs responsible people to do it. But if we are talking about a college having a special day to try to convince middle school kids they can aim higher and achieve things they may not have thought possible - then I'm thinking that should target loftier careers.
I heard vet schools were harder to get into cause there's not many.
Well they don't have to go, that's the thing. I don't think you should really choose a career based on pay; I think you should go with what you enjoy doing. Boys are made fun of for doing jobs like that so I think this kind of thing would make things better for them.
A career should not be based solely on pay but it should be part of the decision making process. Doing what you love is great - but part of what a lot of people love is being able to raise a family, purchase a home and so on. The happiness factor of the job should be balanced with the happiness factor of what the rest of your life will be like as well. While I don't think you should sell your soul for your job I do think some people have an unrealistic viewpoint of, "If I refuse to do any job I don't absolutely love my life will be just peachy". Real life is often a compromise.
Many years ago I actually wanted to be a vet because I love animals.
Then I found out how much schooling is required and also thought about the fact that most of the time I would be dealing with sick and dying animals and sad owners grieving about something happened to their beloved pet and I realized I didn't want to be a vet after all.
Yeah, now I do see you make a point. Today in class this guy wanted to be a game stop manager for a living... He barely had any money.
I wanted to be a trauma doctor but one of the reasons I changed my mind is that I don't know if I could handle not being able to save someone or tell the families...
Ooo i'm all for this. biggrin I'm glad they're doing this at a good time in their life, where steryotypes are really enforced.
I do kind of wish they would do similar with boys; but with fashion design, veterinarians, beauticians, etc.
Except those are all underpaid jobs. Rather than bring the boys down I think the goal is to help the girls obtain better / more affluent careers.
Fashion design is big money if you are one of the top few highly recognizable names. But for every huge name there is probably 10,000+ (100,000??) wannabes who either fail or just make "okay" wages. Beauticians are a dime a dozen. No offense to the good ones but reality is the mean pay is mediocre.
Hairdressers, Hair Stylists And Cosmetologists
The Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2011 reported a national mean annual wage for hairdressers, hair stylists and cosmetologists of $26,460 and an hourly rate of $10.85. Fifty percent of those employed made this hourly and annual wage. It listed more than 350,000 employed nationally in this category. Personal care services had the highest level of employment in this category at more than 317,000 workers. The motion picture industry employed approximately 400 in this category with the highest mean annual wage of $69,780 and an hourly wage of $33.55.
Vets get decent pay compared to beauticians but the required schooling is comparable to being a people doctor but they get about half the pay.
With an average salary of $96,140 in 2013, veterinarians earned a healthy take-home pay for health care jobs. While they earned less than physicians ($188,440), they made about three times the pay of veterinary technologists ($31,760) in 2013. They made about the same average salary as physician assistants ($94,530).
I agree it is good to teach kids they do not have to comply with gender stereotypes for their careers but I don't think pushing boys towards lower paying "girl jobs" is the answer. More like - okay to do it if that is what they have their heart set on, but don't do it because you think you can't achieve one of the loftier careers.
None of what I said is meant to be condescending to anyone in a lower paying job. I've worked everything from janitor and plant nursery "grunt" to management and business partner. Every job has a purpose and needs responsible people to do it. But if we are talking about a college having a special day to try to convince middle school kids they can aim higher and achieve things they may not have thought possible - then I'm thinking that should target loftier careers.
I heard vet schools were harder to get into cause there's not many.
Well they don't have to go, that's the thing. I don't think you should really choose a career based on pay; I think you should go with what you enjoy doing. Boys are made fun of for doing jobs like that so I think this kind of thing would make things better for them.
A career should not be based solely on pay but it should be part of the decision making process. Doing what you love is great - but part of what a lot of people love is being able to raise a family, purchase a home and so on. The happiness factor of the job should be balanced with the happiness factor of what the rest of your life will be like as well. While I don't think you should sell your soul for your job I do think some people have an unrealistic viewpoint of, "If I refuse to do any job I don't absolutely love my life will be just peachy". Real life is often a compromise.
Many years ago I actually wanted to be a vet because I love animals.
Then I found out how much schooling is required and also thought about the fact that most of the time I would be dealing with sick and dying animals and sad owners grieving about something happened to their beloved pet and I realized I didn't want to be a vet after all.
Yeah, now I do see you make a point. Today in class this guy wanted to be a game stop manager for a living... He barely had any money.
I wanted to be a trauma doctor but one of the reasons I changed my mind is that I don't know if I could handle not being able to save someone or tell the families...
If I had life to do over again I might pursue a career in medicine. I'm smart, have a calm personality and the sight of blood and such does not bother me much at all. I probably would have made a good doctor. But even doctors will tell you there is a burn out factor to being a trauma doctor (or working in an ER or similar situation).
One day in the dentist chair I was chit chatting with my dentist (mostly him talking and me saying "mfghghr mrorgeh" due to his hands in my mouth).
He told me part of his internship was as the ER dentist for a Seattle hospital. I'd never really thought about them having a dentist but it makes sense when I think about it. Anyway he was talking some about the burn out factor. I don't think he had to worry much about losing patients since if someone was in danger of dying then likely the dental work took a back seat. But he did get tired of it.
Ironically part of the burnout was related not to severe trauma but due to the "bullshit factor".
They had certain patients they knew to be "frequent fliers" who would show up ever few days with a tooth ache or some other body pain trying to get prescribed pain meds because they were out of street drugs.
Or the bus driver who gets off the late shift and comes into the ER about 1:30 in the morning and demands that my dentist cleans his teeth. They went back and forth with the bus driver trying to say he had to do it because this was an emergency room and my dentist pointing out that no he didn't because a routine teeth cleaning was not an emergency. Guess who didn't get their teeth cleaned. lol smile
Some of the stories he shared were more sad.
But yeah, I wouldn't want to work in an ER / Trauma type of situation. Maybe for a time but not as a life long career.
Ooo i'm all for this. biggrin I'm glad they're doing this at a good time in their life, where steryotypes are really enforced.
I do kind of wish they would do similar with boys; but with fashion design, veterinarians, beauticians, etc.
Except those are all underpaid jobs. Rather than bring the boys down I think the goal is to help the girls obtain better / more affluent careers.
Fashion design is big money if you are one of the top few highly recognizable names. But for every huge name there is probably 10,000+ (100,000??) wannabes who either fail or just make "okay" wages. Beauticians are a dime a dozen. No offense to the good ones but reality is the mean pay is mediocre.
Hairdressers, Hair Stylists And Cosmetologists
The Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2011 reported a national mean annual wage for hairdressers, hair stylists and cosmetologists of $26,460 and an hourly rate of $10.85. Fifty percent of those employed made this hourly and annual wage. It listed more than 350,000 employed nationally in this category. Personal care services had the highest level of employment in this category at more than 317,000 workers. The motion picture industry employed approximately 400 in this category with the highest mean annual wage of $69,780 and an hourly wage of $33.55.
Vets get decent pay compared to beauticians but the required schooling is comparable to being a people doctor but they get about half the pay.
With an average salary of $96,140 in 2013, veterinarians earned a healthy take-home pay for health care jobs. While they earned less than physicians ($188,440), they made about three times the pay of veterinary technologists ($31,760) in 2013. They made about the same average salary as physician assistants ($94,530).
I agree it is good to teach kids they do not have to comply with gender stereotypes for their careers but I don't think pushing boys towards lower paying "girl jobs" is the answer. More like - okay to do it if that is what they have their heart set on, but don't do it because you think you can't achieve one of the loftier careers.
None of what I said is meant to be condescending to anyone in a lower paying job. I've worked everything from janitor and plant nursery "grunt" to management and business partner. Every job has a purpose and needs responsible people to do it. But if we are talking about a college having a special day to try to convince middle school kids they can aim higher and achieve things they may not have thought possible - then I'm thinking that should target loftier careers.
I heard vet schools were harder to get into cause there's not many.
Well they don't have to go, that's the thing. I don't think you should really choose a career based on pay; I think you should go with what you enjoy doing. Boys are made fun of for doing jobs like that so I think this kind of thing would make things better for them.
A career should not be based solely on pay but it should be part of the decision making process. Doing what you love is great - but part of what a lot of people love is being able to raise a family, purchase a home and so on. The happiness factor of the job should be balanced with the happiness factor of what the rest of your life will be like as well. While I don't think you should sell your soul for your job I do think some people have an unrealistic viewpoint of, "If I refuse to do any job I don't absolutely love my life will be just peachy". Real life is often a compromise.
Many years ago I actually wanted to be a vet because I love animals.
Then I found out how much schooling is required and also thought about the fact that most of the time I would be dealing with sick and dying animals and sad owners grieving about something happened to their beloved pet and I realized I didn't want to be a vet after all.
Yeah, now I do see you make a point. Today in class this guy wanted to be a game stop manager for a living... He barely had any money.
I wanted to be a trauma doctor but one of the reasons I changed my mind is that I don't know if I could handle not being able to save someone or tell the families...
If I had life to do over again I might pursue a career in medicine. I'm smart, have a calm personality and the sight of blood and such does not bother me much at all. I probably would have made a good doctor. But even doctors will tell you there is a burn out factor to being a trauma doctor (or working in an ER or similar situation).
One day in the dentist chair I was chit chatting with my dentist (mostly him talking and me saying "mfghghr mrorgeh" due to his hands in my mouth).
He told me part of his internship was as the ER dentist for a Seattle hospital. I'd never really thought about them having a dentist but it makes sense when I think about it. Anyway he was talking some about the burn out factor. I don't think he had to worry much about losing patients since if someone was in danger of dying then likely the dental work took a back seat. But he did get tired of it.
Ironically part of the burnout was related not to severe trauma but due to the "bullshit factor".
They had certain patients they knew to be "frequent fliers" who would show up ever few days with a tooth ache or some other body pain trying to get prescribed pain meds because they were out of street drugs.
Or the bus driver who gets off the late shift and comes into the ER about 1:30 in the morning and demands that my dentist cleans his teeth. They went back and forth with the bus driver trying to say he had to do it because this was an emergency room and my dentist pointing out that no he didn't because a routine teeth cleaning was not an emergency. Guess who didn't get their teeth cleaned. lol smile
Some of the stories he shared were more sad.
But yeah, I wouldn't want to work in an ER / Trauma type of situation. Maybe for a time but not as a life long career.
stressed Dammit gaia wiped my reply! roflI don't get why dentists talk to you when they have their hands in your mouth. They must have taken gibrish classes.
I imagine there'd be some sort of burnout involved, seeing as you pretty much work 24/7 365. I didn't know regulars coming in like that were a daily occurrence/very common though.
I didn't know there were dentists in the ER either. It DOES make sense why they would be though.
I won't knock the idea; it's a good one. We need the alternative as well though.
Because they'll all be surrounded by other boys, it can turn into a game that'll garner results in the long run.
If we train little boys now, we'll have competent men who don't need to marry their 'mother' just to reproduce and survive. Little girls won't accept all that housework either under some BS excuse. If they get unfairly treated like dormats at home, the girl will eventually accept such treatment at work.
-Cooking (Chef)
-cleaning ( will assist the spouse for less stress and premature aging)
-housework (House cleaning, home care provider, helpful husband, help aging parents, etc)
-child rearing (management & communication skills to be used anywhere)
-balancing the checkbook (if he can't balance the checkbook when you're alive, he's screwed when you're dead.)
In high school I signed up for a mechanics class.
But then when the next year started I got shafted to "Home Development" which was basicly a class about raising a family.
With the excuse that the mechanics class was "full". The class was mostly full of guys and I wanted to study cars because my dad was a mechanic.
I feel like I missed a great opportunity to find and learned about what I loved doing because of my gender. They could have put me in any other class about painting, or PE, or cooking. But no. Home development. Learn to have babies girls. rolleyes
Kinda reminds me of this little story. Glad I didn't go through that in high school. Then again, when it comes to things dealing with computers such as ecommerce and computer programming, anyone can do it as long as they know computers regardless of gender.
I heard vet schools were harder to get into cause there's not many.
Well they don't have to go, that's the thing. I don't think you should really choose a career based on pay; I think you should go with what you enjoy doing. Boys are made fun of for doing jobs like that so I think this kind of thing would make things better for them.
A career should not be based solely on pay but it should be part of the decision making process. Doing what you love is great - but part of what a lot of people love is being able to raise a family, purchase a home and so on. The happiness factor of the job should be balanced with the happiness factor of what the rest of your life will be like as well. While I don't think you should sell your soul for your job I do think some people have an unrealistic viewpoint of, "If I refuse to do any job I don't absolutely love my life will be just peachy". Real life is often a compromise.
Many years ago I actually wanted to be a vet because I love animals.
Then I found out how much schooling is required and also thought about the fact that most of the time I would be dealing with sick and dying animals and sad owners grieving about something happened to their beloved pet and I realized I didn't want to be a vet after all.
Yeah, now I do see you make a point. Today in class this guy wanted to be a game stop manager for a living... He barely had any money.
I wanted to be a trauma doctor but one of the reasons I changed my mind is that I don't know if I could handle not being able to save someone or tell the families...
If I had life to do over again I might pursue a career in medicine. I'm smart, have a calm personality and the sight of blood and such does not bother me much at all. I probably would have made a good doctor. But even doctors will tell you there is a burn out factor to being a trauma doctor (or working in an ER or similar situation).
One day in the dentist chair I was chit chatting with my dentist (mostly him talking and me saying "mfghghr mrorgeh" due to his hands in my mouth).
He told me part of his internship was as the ER dentist for a Seattle hospital. I'd never really thought about them having a dentist but it makes sense when I think about it. Anyway he was talking some about the burn out factor. I don't think he had to worry much about losing patients since if someone was in danger of dying then likely the dental work took a back seat. But he did get tired of it.
Ironically part of the burnout was related not to severe trauma but due to the "bullshit factor".
They had certain patients they knew to be "frequent fliers" who would show up ever few days with a tooth ache or some other body pain trying to get prescribed pain meds because they were out of street drugs.
Or the bus driver who gets off the late shift and comes into the ER about 1:30 in the morning and demands that my dentist cleans his teeth. They went back and forth with the bus driver trying to say he had to do it because this was an emergency room and my dentist pointing out that no he didn't because a routine teeth cleaning was not an emergency. Guess who didn't get their teeth cleaned. lol smile
Some of the stories he shared were more sad.
But yeah, I wouldn't want to work in an ER / Trauma type of situation. Maybe for a time but not as a life long career.
stressed Dammit gaia wiped my reply! roflI don't get why dentists talk to you when they have their hands in your mouth. They must have taken gibrish classes.
I imagine there'd be some sort of burnout involved, seeing as you pretty much work 24/7 365. I didn't know regulars coming in like that were a daily occurrence/very common though.
I didn't know there were dentists in the ER either. It DOES make sense why they would be though.
To his credit he is pretty good at understanding me with stuff in my mouth.
I had a lot of dental work done and sometimes i was in the chair for hours. So we had some time to chat now and then.
My local nearby "big town" is much smaller than Seattle so they maybe don't have dentist on the ER staff. (I didn't think to ask him). Probably just on call or something.
And sorry about your reply - hate it when that happens.
If you take too long and get a log on you can usually back arrow once - see what you typed and do a select all / copy, then log in and paste it. Or sometimes I type it in Word.
I heard vet schools were harder to get into cause there's not many.
Well they don't have to go, that's the thing. I don't think you should really choose a career based on pay; I think you should go with what you enjoy doing. Boys are made fun of for doing jobs like that so I think this kind of thing would make things better for them.
A career should not be based solely on pay but it should be part of the decision making process. Doing what you love is great - but part of what a lot of people love is being able to raise a family, purchase a home and so on. The happiness factor of the job should be balanced with the happiness factor of what the rest of your life will be like as well. While I don't think you should sell your soul for your job I do think some people have an unrealistic viewpoint of, "If I refuse to do any job I don't absolutely love my life will be just peachy". Real life is often a compromise.
Many years ago I actually wanted to be a vet because I love animals.
Then I found out how much schooling is required and also thought about the fact that most of the time I would be dealing with sick and dying animals and sad owners grieving about something happened to their beloved pet and I realized I didn't want to be a vet after all.
Yeah, now I do see you make a point. Today in class this guy wanted to be a game stop manager for a living... He barely had any money.
I wanted to be a trauma doctor but one of the reasons I changed my mind is that I don't know if I could handle not being able to save someone or tell the families...
If I had life to do over again I might pursue a career in medicine. I'm smart, have a calm personality and the sight of blood and such does not bother me much at all. I probably would have made a good doctor. But even doctors will tell you there is a burn out factor to being a trauma doctor (or working in an ER or similar situation).
One day in the dentist chair I was chit chatting with my dentist (mostly him talking and me saying "mfghghr mrorgeh" due to his hands in my mouth).
He told me part of his internship was as the ER dentist for a Seattle hospital. I'd never really thought about them having a dentist but it makes sense when I think about it. Anyway he was talking some about the burn out factor. I don't think he had to worry much about losing patients since if someone was in danger of dying then likely the dental work took a back seat. But he did get tired of it.
Ironically part of the burnout was related not to severe trauma but due to the "bullshit factor".
They had certain patients they knew to be "frequent fliers" who would show up ever few days with a tooth ache or some other body pain trying to get prescribed pain meds because they were out of street drugs.
Or the bus driver who gets off the late shift and comes into the ER about 1:30 in the morning and demands that my dentist cleans his teeth. They went back and forth with the bus driver trying to say he had to do it because this was an emergency room and my dentist pointing out that no he didn't because a routine teeth cleaning was not an emergency. Guess who didn't get their teeth cleaned. lol smile
Some of the stories he shared were more sad.
But yeah, I wouldn't want to work in an ER / Trauma type of situation. Maybe for a time but not as a life long career.
stressed Dammit gaia wiped my reply! roflI don't get why dentists talk to you when they have their hands in your mouth. They must have taken gibrish classes.
I imagine there'd be some sort of burnout involved, seeing as you pretty much work 24/7 365. I didn't know regulars coming in like that were a daily occurrence/very common though.
I didn't know there were dentists in the ER either. It DOES make sense why they would be though.
To his credit he is pretty good at understanding me with stuff in my mouth.
I had a lot of dental work done and sometimes i was in the chair for hours. So we had some time to chat now and then.
My local nearby "big town" is much smaller than Seattle so they maybe don't have dentist on the ER staff. (I didn't think to ask him). Probably just on call or something.
And sorry about your reply - hate it when that happens.
If you take too long and get a log on you can usually back arrow once - see what you typed and do a select all / copy, then log in and paste it. Or sometimes I type it in Word.
That's further proof of dentists taking gibrish. wink Id imagine they'd be on call or else they'd probably be sitting around bored a lot...
I read about copy pasting but I keep forgetting to do it...
That's further proof of dentists taking gibrish. wink Id imagine they'd be on call or else they'd probably be sitting around bored a lot...
I read about copy pasting but I keep forgetting to do it...
Locally (for me) they would be bored I think.
It sounded like at that Seattle ER they kept pretty busy. Plus I think he said it was part of his internship so if it is like doctor interns the reputation goes that they overwork them a lot in terms of hours they have to be awake and such.
That's further proof of dentists taking gibrish. wink Id imagine they'd be on call or else they'd probably be sitting around bored a lot...
I read about copy pasting but I keep forgetting to do it...
Locally (for me) they would be bored I think.
It sounded like at that Seattle ER they kept pretty busy. Plus I think he said it was part of his internship so if it is like doctor interns the reputation goes that they overwork them a lot in terms of hours they have to be awake and such.
