Men Must Prove a Woman Said Yes

[MiameMiame]

After this there'll be 'womyn' denying they said 'yes' and say they 'were pressured into it' or that they 'were being threatened' into agreeing.
Thanks for reminding me to take a safe distance of the States.

[Keltoi Samurai]

Morbid Gnome

Keltoi Samurai

Morbid Gnome

Valiant Corvus

Saless

No, the woman is not at fault at all in that situation. Were her choices poor? Perhaps. But that's irrelevant. It's still the guy that's making the decision to rape. He's at fault, no one else.

Should she not take responsibility for her poor decisions then? Should the guy be at fault if she gave her consent and came to regret it later?

That sounds like a very dangerous precedence you're setting there.

You can't consent when you're intoxicated.

Unless you're a man, in which case there's irrevocable assumed consent.

Pretty sure that's not how the law reads and not how consent works.

May not be how the law reads, but it's about how it works out. There's still plenty of debate as to whether a man being made to penetrate against his will qualifies as being raped, after all, and until just a couple years ago, the legal definition of rape flat-out said that it only applied to female victims.

[Ratttking]

Kaltros

Ratttking

Kaltros

Ratttking

Kaltros

Nah, the same kind of thing is happening in the U.S. as well, such as California's Affirmative Consent doctrine.

Then post your nonsense in the thread about that.

Nonsense? In what way? If this rape culture women complain about really exists, wouldn't the world be improved by guys refusing to give women any attention anymore?

Well, perhaps guys like you. lol

You don't know what my gender is.

Nor do I care.

[David2074]

Morbid Gnome

Keltoi Samurai

Morbid Gnome

Valiant Corvus

Saless

No, the woman is not at fault at all in that situation. Were her choices poor? Perhaps. But that's irrelevant. It's still the guy that's making the decision to rape. He's at fault, no one else.

Should she not take responsibility for her poor decisions then? Should the guy be at fault if she gave her consent and came to regret it later?

That sounds like a very dangerous precedence you're setting there.

You can't consent when you're intoxicated.

Unless you're a man, in which case there's irrevocable assumed consent.

Pretty sure that's not how the law reads and not how consent works.

And yet it is the way the public (juries also being made up of the public) seem to view it.
Read the comments in this thread and virtually every other thread on this topic and what you consistently see is a presumption along the lines of the guy took advantage of a drunk girl.
It completely ignores the reality that if you go into a bar or club you can easily find both guys and girls partying and looking for a "date". Not all people of course but there is a lot of that. I've known women who went out clubbing specifically to pick up guys. Quite often both people hooking up are drunk. Both people enjoy having sex together. But only the person with a v****a is allowed to later change their mind and say, "But I was drunk so it was rape".

Now I'm not talking about blatant cases like the recent Vanderbilt trial where the girl was passed out. Stuff like that is horrible and those guys deserve prison. But when you start using "drunk = no consent" as a blanket thing the defining line becomes much more gray. Plenty of people who are legally drunk engage in sex. The majority of the time it is considered mutual and everyone moves ono. But when there are later regrets the overwhelming viewpoint is that the man was just in it for selfish pleasure and was taking advantage and the woman was an innocent victim. Both sexes make decisions when drunk and sometimes those are not the best decisions. The "no consent cuz drunk" thing should not be the one way street is typically viewed as.

Personally I will not touch a woman who has been drinking or smoking something or whatever - unless there is already an established consensual relationship and I know the chemical has no bearing on their decision to want sex. But I've also never been the kind of person to go out "clubbing" or into one night stands. For those who are, the law should not be skewed in favor of the female as it is now. The man is considered responsible for decisions he makes when out drinking. But if you dare mention the woman should also be considered responsible for decisions she makes then out come accusations of "rape supporter" and crap like that. I don't support rape but I do support all human beings being held accountable for their actions.

Ideally these laws would only be used for severe cases like the Vanderbilt situation but it seems to be being applied to other stuff where the woman was active. (sorry I don't have a link to the story I'm thinking about). I know a woman who would black out when drunk. She was not only active she was very aggressively sexual. In one situation she was 86'd from a bar even though she "didn't do anything" and wanted me to go talk to the manager for her. I did, and the barmaid that was serving her. She got kicked out for getting too sexual on the dance floor and at her table. Then after she left the building she had sex with two guys at the same time in the front seat of the car - parked right outside the windows of the bar where other patrons could see and were complaining about it. The bar called the cops but by the time they arrived they had left (driving drunk by the way). All three of them were drunk and she was very much actively participating in the sexual acts - giving a blow job to one guy while she got it doggy style from the other guy. I've seen her blacked out enough times back then to know the guys had no idea she was blacked out. She could walk and talk and participate same as if she wasn't. But in the current popular views of "drunk = no consent" she was "raped" even though the guys were drunk too and they surely had no idea she was that far drunk.

(Side note - not that situation but I have also seen her claim "I was raped" when she got drunk and did s**t where she was caught and felt embarrassed about. Never to the point of trial - just slander to try to make herself look better to her friends and family. In one case it actually did involve the cops but there were enough witnesses and such to prove the story she was telling was BS.)

Popular opinion, and likely the court, would probably never consider the reverse opinion - that the men in that bar scene story were victimized because they were drunk and she was the one who got them drunk and took advantage of them to satisfy her "itch". And if you can not visualize the men as rape victims in that scenario it kind of makes my point about assuming the men are always consenting.

[Sakura Takafumi]

Alexander J Luthor

Sakura Takafumi

Saless

Sakura Takafumi

Morgue

We hold people accountable for drunk driving but don't hold people accountable for other dangerous situations they can get into while under the influence. I say if you're going to drink, do so in a safe place with trusted company. It helps to avoid getting into troublesome situations in the first place.

^ This.

A lot of people don't want to victim blame though. Even if the woman got drunk on her own. Was in an area/bar she didn't know, and was wear very reviling clothes. The guy would be at fault too, of course; however the woman needs to take some blame too. Because while you can get raped fully clothed and by a friend/bf/family member. But when wearing less clothing, being drunk and/or the person not knowing you, it makes it just so much easier to do.

And im not talking about the guy getting the girl drunk or drugging her. I'm talking about HER drinking alot on her own. Buying her own drink and drinking with friends, then when they are done she walks home alone or gets in a car with someone she thinks she can trust to drive her home who she just met, but he's cute, so why not? I'll let him drive me home.

No, the woman is not at fault at all in that situation. Were her choices poor? Perhaps. But that's irrelevant. It's still the guy that's making the decision to rape. He's at fault, no one else.

No she is partly at fault. We need to learn to take responsibilities about our choices we make.
And not just with rape. Take for example people who get mugged or robbed. While anyone can get mugged, it makes you an easier target if you have your expensive phone sticking half way out your pockets vs someone whos expensive stuff is tucked out of sight. The chances are higher of getting mugged if A.) the item is easier to get to and B.) the mugger knows for a fact you have something of value.

Same goes for a car being robbed. A car whos GPS or Phone is in plain sight or a person who forgot to lock or shut their car door is more likely to get robbed vs someone whos car is locked up and nothing is in sight. Both can get broken into of course but there are precautions we can take.

I mean my apartment got broke into and I admit I'm partly to blame. We had no extra lock on our back door (even though there is one), no lock on our back gate, and our blinds were wide open to show that we had nice stuff. While the crook is in the wrong and shouldn't have broke in. We also realize we should have protected our place a bit better. Now we have extra lock and security system and know that it could still happen again, but at least now we are taking better precautions.

Just gonna leave this here...

and thats similar to what the cop said to us when we got robbed. How thiefs look for easy targets and look for people who have nice things. But while he said all that, he also helped up with our report and wasn't a huge jackass about it even though we couldn't have prevented it. (even if there still could have been a chance it could happen either way)

And thats something similar that needs to be done with rape. Let them know what what went wrong and helped possibly lead to that and what they can do to help prevent them. Maybe not right after it happens but eventually. Women need to know that they shouldn't go out wearing next to nothing and go and get s**t faced and expect nothing to happen. Same can happen to men to. Especially if when the woman has sex and verbal no or yes is exchanged because they are too drunk and its just one thing leading to another.

They need to know what lead to him wanting to rape her and at the same time have their case be taken seriously. I'm not saying "Oh well you were drunk and wearing next to nothing...sooo I can't do anything about what happened since you were asking for it." I'm just saying we just need to be made more aware about what are actions can lead too.
Because anytime you try and say "well she was s**t faced and wearing what looked like lingerie...." We get the how dare you victim blame! I'm not victim blaming, im just saying the choices she made that night were poor. Obviously the guy is still a total d**k for taking advantage. But they don't just put "drink responsibly" on alcohol just in reference to driving, and there is a reason why women put on lingerie to turn their BFs or husbands on in the bedroom..because it works. Really well and when a guy is drunk too he's not in his best mind either. .

[Lupa Fangs]

Mei tsuki7

Morgue

We hold people accountable for drunk driving but don't hold people accountable for other dangerous situations they can get into while under the influence. I say if you're going to drink, do so in a safe place with trusted company. It helps to avoid getting into troublesome situations in the first place.

Except you're more likely to be raped by someone you know than by a stranger.

That and the one drunk driver isn't being punished for putting themselves in danger. They are being punished for putting someone else in danger. So it's differnt than being held accountable for putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

[Kaltros]

God Emperor Baldur

Kaltros

N3bu

Kaltros

Solution - Guys, don't date American women anymore. Then American women can become nuns or cat ladies or whatever it is they want.

Doesn't that leave you a little SOL?

Go to jail, or watch porn and play video games. Is that such a hard choice?

You'd have to be the p***y of pussies to be afraid of getting arrested for sex.

So men are evil for wanting sex, because of rape culture. But they're also evil if they don't want sex?

[God Emperor Baldur]

Kaltros

God Emperor Baldur

Kaltros

N3bu

Kaltros

Solution - Guys, don't date American women anymore. Then American women can become nuns or cat ladies or whatever it is they want.

Doesn't that leave you a little SOL?

Go to jail, or watch porn and play video games. Is that such a hard choice?

You'd have to be the p***y of pussies to be afraid of getting arrested for sex.

So men are evil for wanting sex, because of rape culture. But they're also evil if they don't want sex?

Put words in my mouth one more time and I'll block your a**.

Anyway, what I am saying is that the fear of prosecution should not stop you from seeking sex unless you are actually doing something wrong, then yes, that should be a deterrent. Seriously you should feel ******** lucky compared to a lot of cultures where you have to do some crazy s**t to achieve manhood. Try the risk of dying in war to get laid.

[Fat Anime Tiddies]

Elraine Figarette

Super 9-Volt

First the pendulum swung to blaming the victims for getting raped while the rapists can do no wrong and now it's swinging over to accusing all men of being potential rapists while the women can do no wrong. There needs to be a balance to this.

This is definitely not what is happening here. Keep in mind that a lot of men will admit to rape as long as you don't call it rape. Then consider how many cases of rape go unreported for various reasons.

>source to jezebel

lmao

[Fat Anime Tiddies]

It's funny how no one has noticed the woman who is proposed this is the same woman who says there are too many women in UK's jails and they need to be freed simply because they are women.

[Kaltros]

God Emperor Baldur

Anyway, what I am saying is that the fear of prosecution should not stop you from seeking sex unless you are actually doing something wrong, then yes, that should be a deterrent. Seriously you should feel ******** lucky compared to a lot of cultures where you have to do some crazy s**t to achieve manhood. Try the risk of dying in war to get laid.

According to the Affirmative Consent laws in California, if there is any step of the process where you didn't get her to say 'that's fine, go ahead', it's legally considered rape. So you ask her, "Can I kiss you?" And she says yes, and you kiss her, but at the same time you touch her shoulder, that's rape, because you didn't get her consent to touch her shoulder. Or whatever stupid technicality you forgot to agree on first.

Not worth the trouble. Not to mention a mood killer.

[God Emperor Baldur]

Kaltros

God Emperor Baldur

Anyway, what I am saying is that the fear of prosecution should not stop you from seeking sex unless you are actually doing something wrong, then yes, that should be a deterrent. Seriously you should feel ******** lucky compared to a lot of cultures where you have to do some crazy s**t to achieve manhood. Try the risk of dying in war to get laid.

According to the Affirmative Consent laws in California, if there is any step of the process where you didn't get her to say 'that's fine, go ahead', it's legally considered rape. So you ask her, "Can I kiss you?" And she says yes, and you kiss her, but at the same time you touch her shoulder, that's rape, because you didn't get her consent to touch her shoulder. Or whatever stupid technicality you forgot to agree on first.

Not worth the trouble. Not to mention a mood killer.

Only a pansy would be afraid of that. Risk-takers are good at getting women.

[Keltoi Samurai]

God Emperor Baldur

Kaltros

God Emperor Baldur

Anyway, what I am saying is that the fear of prosecution should not stop you from seeking sex unless you are actually doing something wrong, then yes, that should be a deterrent. Seriously you should feel ******** lucky compared to a lot of cultures where you have to do some crazy s**t to achieve manhood. Try the risk of dying in war to get laid.

According to the Affirmative Consent laws in California, if there is any step of the process where you didn't get her to say 'that's fine, go ahead', it's legally considered rape. So you ask her, "Can I kiss you?" And she says yes, and you kiss her, but at the same time you touch her shoulder, that's rape, because you didn't get her consent to touch her shoulder. Or whatever stupid technicality you forgot to agree on first.

Not worth the trouble. Not to mention a mood killer.

Only a pansy would be afraid of that. Risk-takers are good at getting women.

You may not realise this, but when you say to "take risks," you are advocating for activities that, in the state of California, are rape.

Further, you are also shaming men who would be deterred from acting in a way that is defined as rape by calling them "pansies."

I am not putting words in your mouth, just so you know, when I say that you have therefore declared that, under California law, there are naught but "risk taking" rapists, and non-raping "pansies."

[God Emperor Baldur]

Keltoi Samurai

You may not realise this, but when you say to "take risks," you are advocating for activities that, in the state of California, are rape.

As if I give a s**t.

Keltoi Samurai

Further, you are also shaming men who would be deterred from acting in a way that is defined as rape by calling them "pansies."

Because they are pansies.

Keltoi Samurai

I am not putting words in your mouth, just so you know, when I say that you have therefore declared that, under California law, there are naught but "risk taking" rapists, and non-raping "pansies."

In order to that to happen, a woman must first take me to court.

[Keltoi Samurai]

God Emperor Baldur

Keltoi Samurai

You may not realise this, but when you say to "take risks," you are advocating for activities that, in the state of California, are rape.

As if I give a s**t.

Keltoi Samurai

Further, you are also shaming men who would be deterred from acting in a way that is defined as rape by calling them "pansies."

Because they are pansies.

Keltoi Samurai

I am not putting words in your mouth, just so you know, when I say that you have therefore declared that, under California law, there are naught but "risk taking" rapists, and non-raping "pansies."

In order to that to happen, a woman must first take me to court.

Ok, just so we're clear, here, you have no problem at all with advocating for this particular variety of rape? And in your mind, anyone who would not be considered a rapist in the state of California is a pansy, correct?

I'm being careful, mind, to not say "advocating for rape" without that qualifier, since the only rape you seem to be advocating for is this one particular form, the "spontaneity," "it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" style recently outlawed in Cali.