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cephastwin
Ugh. Why are stupid people violent and vice versa?


There are exceptions to every rule but as a generality my observation is often people who are unnecessarily violent have poor conflict resolution skills. That is not limited to 'stupid' people but as IQ goes down the inability to think of more sensible ways to express your anger or convey your point of view seems go to up.
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Kinny Fear
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VirginianRanger
Never once did I say you shouldn't try protesting. I said the method was all wrong.
Ah, there I agree. Unfortunately it's pretty much the only method we have. User Image
VirginianRanger
What, exactly, are you protesting about? What specifically are you and those in the movement attempting to change(I've heard the ramblings of some of the "occupy" protestors and they make absolutely no sense)?
I'm sure I stated it earlier, but the major flaw of the rally and protest was the lack of cohesiveness. Everyone was there for a different reason. It was incredibly frustrating as you can imagine.
VirginianRanger
True, there are some bad elements involved in your movement(ie the black block anarchists). But what I don't understand is why those that are there to "peacefully" demonstrate go limp when the police ask them to leave(due largely in part because the protestors are demonstrating without the proper permits. Yes, you have to have a permit to demonstrate. Yes,it's covered under the Bill of Rights but many municipalities require permits to be obtained before the demonstration begins). I mean, if the police tell you to leave and you don't, then you're breaking the law and the police have to arrest you. By going limp you just make a bad situation worse for yourself. Police now struggle to move you away and it also opens up an opportunity for others to possibly assault the police who are only doing their job.
That's what civil disobedience is, except for the last bit. It's idiotic to assault the police, because it invalidates the entire protest by taking the media's attention away from the matters at hand, the questions we want to raise. It's only fortunate that the media chose not to associate the Black Block with the immigrant rights march, at least some good came of that day.
VirginianRanger
This is where Phoenix Jones and others step in. Yes, they are vigilantes, but would it be better to have someone using non-lethal force(come on, its pepper spray and yes, I've been sprayed with it. I'm an EMT and had it applied to me during training) than to have the previously mentioned black block anarchists beating on the police? So assaulting the criminal that is assaulting a police officer is wrong? This isn't a "two wrongs don't make a right" equation. This is stepping in and helping out equation.
Phoenix Jones is a civilian. The anarchists are comitting assault, his group is committing assault. It's not two wrongs make a right, it's two wrongs make two wrongs, that should be dealt with. He has no right to pepper spray people just for breaking windows, it's not his property or person.
VirginianRanger
Perhaps you and others like yourself that want this "change" to come about would further your cause by becoming more organized and define what it is you are attempting to achieve. This filtering system would then eliminate those radical influences that will only further mar your cause.
Yes. neutral



I've re-read your posts and like a lot of others I've read in other forum I have yet to see a cohesive list of changes that should be implemented that doesn't start out with " Things need to be more fair" or "the playing field needs to be more level". I'm not saying that is what you personally have said(at least I can't find where you may have said that) but that would require unraveling the culture of supply and demand, of capitalism as a whole. But that's another arguement for another day.

You missed my point about the method of protesting. Trust me when I say that I completely understand the definition as well as the application of civil disobedience. My point was to use the media to your advantage. Its two pronged. First, by working with local law enforcement when things get out of hand you show the media as well as the public in general that the majority of the protestors are not to be lumped into the same pot as the black block anarchists. When they begin to break windows you(not you personally but as a whole) impede their activities, thereby assisting the police. This eliminates the need for Phoenix Jones and other like him, the "second prong", if you will. This isn't viewed by the police or the courts as "two wrongs make a right" or even two wrongs. It shows them that you can police yourselves. These anarchists are depending on protestors to behave the way they do. You provide them with the necessary "cover" so they can commit their anarchistic acts. You go to jail and they skip away scot-free. Now, does that seem "fair"?
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VirginianRanger
I've re-read your posts and like a lot of others I've read in other forum I have yet to see a cohesive list of changes that should be implemented that doesn't start out with " Things need to be more fair" or "the playing field needs to be more level". I'm not saying that is what you personally have said(at least I can't find where you may have said that) but that would require unraveling the culture of supply and demand, of capitalism as a whole. But that's another arguement for another day.

You missed my point about the method of protesting. Trust me when I say that I completely understand the definition as well as the application of civil disobedience. My point was to use the media to your advantage. Its two pronged. First, by working with local law enforcement when things get out of hand you show the media as well as the public in general that the majority of the protestors are not to be lumped into the same pot as the black block anarchists. When they begin to break windows you(not you personally but as a whole) impede their activities, thereby assisting the police. This eliminates the need for Phoenix Jones and other like him, the "second prong", if you will. This isn't viewed by the police or the courts as "two wrongs make a right" or even two wrongs. It shows them that you can police yourselves. These anarchists are depending on protestors to behave the way they do. You provide them with the necessary "cover" so they can commit their anarchistic acts. You go to jail and they skip away scot-free. Now, does that seem "fair"?
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We seem to want a more socialist government- I, for example, want an NHS.

You have no idea how much I wish your ideas could be realistically implemented. Unfortunately, the bulk of protesters make up students, young people like the sociopath above. The view the "pigs" as our enemies, and while they won't assault the police, they'll cheer on anyone who does. So if there were a way to weed out the immature protesters, or teach them how they're being unhelpful, this could work.
And for the record, I think your two-pronged method is brilliant.

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VirginianRanger
I've re-read your posts and like a lot of others I've read in other forum I have yet to see a cohesive list of changes that should be implemented that doesn't start out with " Things need to be more fair" or "the playing field needs to be more level". I'm not saying that is what you personally have said(at least I can't find where you may have said that) but that would require unraveling the culture of supply and demand, of capitalism as a whole. But that's another arguement for another day.

You missed my point about the method of protesting. Trust me when I say that I completely understand the definition as well as the application of civil disobedience. My point was to use the media to your advantage. Its two pronged. First, by working with local law enforcement when things get out of hand you show the media as well as the public in general that the majority of the protestors are not to be lumped into the same pot as the black block anarchists. When they begin to break windows you(not you personally but as a whole) impede their activities, thereby assisting the police. This eliminates the need for Phoenix Jones and other like him, the "second prong", if you will. This isn't viewed by the police or the courts as "two wrongs make a right" or even two wrongs. It shows them that you can police yourselves. These anarchists are depending on protestors to behave the way they do. You provide them with the necessary "cover" so they can commit their anarchistic acts. You go to jail and they skip away scot-free. Now, does that seem "fair"?
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We seem to want a more socialist government- I, for example, want an NHS.

You have no idea how much I wish your ideas could be realistically implemented. Unfortunately, the bulk of protesters make up students, young people like the sociopath above. The view the "pigs" as our enemies, and while they won't assault the police, they'll cheer on anyone who does. So if there were a way to weed out the immature protesters, or teach them how they're being unhelpful, this could work.
And for the record, I think your two-pronged method is brilliant.



Thanks. There is a way that you can accomplish these goals without including those that would hinder your progress. Try using Twitter and other forms of social media to network others like yourself. Look at the Tea Party movement. They took full advantage of social networks, inspiring others to join their group. Have you seen any violent protests from them? Also, they police themselves in allowing who speaks for them as well as who appears on camera as representatives of the movement. Give it a try. Couldn't hurt, right? You know deep down you're not alone with wanting the changes you seek.
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VirginianRanger
Thanks. There is a way that you can accomplish these goals without including those that would hinder your progress. Try using Twitter and other forms of social media to network others like yourself. Look at the Tea Party movement. They took full advantage of social networks, inspiring others to join their group. Have you seen any violent protests from them? Also, they police themselves in allowing who speaks for them as well as who appears on camera as representatives of the movement. Give it a try. Couldn't hurt, right? You know deep down you're not alone with wanting the changes you seek.
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gonk Unfortunately, I'm pretty badly depressed. I'm not the one to spearhead the movement, but if I ever find that person I'll pass this concept along to them.

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