God Emperor Baldur
The Silent Seraph
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- Posted: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:56:13 +0000
imblaine2
Patton
imblaine2
I'm really dislike the way Israel is handling this situation and overall really starting to dislike the Israel government in general. Hamas is in the wrong for the situation as well and could have handled this is a million others way that would have been better but Israel and the U.S has a lot of blame for the massive civilian death toll as well.
Are you referring to the talking point of "Their using their own people as shields"? Which I do not understand at all. Gaza isn't that big, it's not even half the size of the city of Los Angeles. Where would they go to set up their rocket sites or bases? Even in the U.S some of our bases, harbors and airports are in the center or near civilian populations and we are thousands of times larger than Gaza. Israel is the more powerful of the two opponents, they are more technologically advanced and massively winning this. It's their responsibility to ensure as little civilian deaths as possible.
But I highly doubt the Israeli right wing government right now even wants that. They are more likely to be elected in times of war or potential times of war. They can continue the occupation if times like these arise more often and they get more aid from the U.S.
"It's small, so that gives them an excuse to violate international laws of armed conflict by stockpiling and firing weapons within hospitals, schools, playgrounds, and residences."
No. I don't care how small your country is, it's never so small that you're forced to put/fire weapons in those areas. Especially given the fact that it's coastal, AND has a buffer zone along the Israeli border! It's very simple to cordon off some beaches or set up in the buffer zone, thus creating a civilian-free area. They don't do this because it would allow Israel to attack them without collateral damage, which is Hamas' primary weapon in this war. There is no excuse for their tactics, and claiming otherwise demonstrates your ignorance. And you will note that even though our bases, harbors, and airports (which are civilian structures, so I don't know why you included them) are near civilian areas, they are separate entities, and can be targeted easily without civilian collateral.
"They're more advanced and they're winning so everything is their fault"
Idiotic argument. While Israel bears some responsibility for mitigating civilian impact of their assaults, they meet it easily. Israeli forces notify civilians in hot areas by phone, by air-dropped pamphlets, and more; and their attacks are targeted to known Hamas operations and storage centers. If the civilians don't move because they listen to Hamas telling them to "meet Israeli missiles with their bare chests", then they've committed suicide, not been murdered. If I see the warning that a train is coming across the tracks, and I keep driving and die, the conductor is not guilty of murder. I'm guilty of stupidity. And a train warning comes mere seconds/minutes before the train arrives, whereas Israeli warnings come hours to days beforehand. Before you respond with the equally moronic "Gaza is small they have nowhere to go", consider that the entire population of North America can stand shoulder to shoulder on the land available on Rhode Island. If my neighborhood was about to be shelled, you can bet I would walk out of the danger zone and stand in a field until it was over. There IS room.
Mei tsuki7
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- Posted: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:15:27 +0000
Keltoi Samurai
Mei tsuki7
Keltoi Samurai
Mei tsuki7
Recca Hino
PAL87
How do you want proof? Do you want to be in gaza checking the situation? When i provided a link of international journalists on the ground you dismissed them as "pro israeli".
Mei tsuki7 doesn't seem to accept anything she doesn't post herself. That's why I tend to ignore her.
Thank you for backing me up. I mostly listen to the radio so I don't have the internet article to post.
If this was any other discussion you wouldn't ever accept his obviously biased source either. It flat out states it is pro Israel biased. That is not a good source.
It's still better than the sources you've provided.
Not just the ones you've provided in this thread, or today, but the sources you've been providing ever since you got on your little "death to the JewsZionists" kick.
Can we see just one? Please? I promise, I won't hold it to the same scrutiny that you hold pro-Israel sources. I don't even care if your source quotes "The Protocols of Zion" or other similar antisemitic hoaxes.
Hell, post us a link to the Hamas Charter, just provide SOME sources.
So that's better than Haaretz which I have used as a source in these types of discussion? I don't think so.
Also, where the ******** do you get off saying that I think all Zionists should be killed. That is so far passed acceptable and you should know that. Disagreeing with the actions of Israel and disliking some of the teachings of Zionism is NOT advocating for genocide. And saying such a thing is extremely ignorant and shameful to yourself.
You've accused me of holding beliefs before simply because you perceive the pro-Israeli side as holding them. How is it different that I ascribe to you, an anti-Israel individual, the stance of Hamas and the anti-Israel protesters in Europe right now? In fact, since you've treated me as if I hold the most abhorrent beliefs you can think that Zionists might hold, it's reasonable then for me to assume you'd think as much about the opposition because you yourself hold the beliefs common to your side, which includes Hamas, who's very charter calls for the death of all Jews everywhere, going so far as to call it a holy mandate from Allah.
Except for the fact that I have flat out stated that I do NOT STAND WITH HAMAS. You continue to ignore most of what I say and then accuse me of a variety of things. It is abhorrent.
Also, the destruction of Israel is NOT the genocide of the Jews. The destruction of Israel is just the dissolution of the state itself with the land returned to the Palestinians. Yes there are people who think the Jews should be killed but that idea is not held by the majority of Palestinians.
Lastly, yes I assume you side with Israel on everything because you have never given any indication otherwise in all of our discussions. I have pointed you to many atrocities Israel has committed and you haven't batted an eye while spouting Pro-Israel propaganda.
PS. I would really like to know what I've accused you of that wasn't true because all you've ever said to me was "I don't know enough about the topic." Which is not the same as not siding with Israel.
Sugarbeary
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- Posted: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 19:41:03 +0000
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
PAL87
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 00:43:36 +0000
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
Omnileech
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 00:59:27 +0000
PAL87
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
"Israel claims it did a great job. Pal87 repeats what Israel claims. Will the IDF post any evidence justifying its claim that it killed 1 one civilians for each militant? No.
The United Nations claims that the far more civilians were killed than militants.
Israel could start using WMDS and you'd still be praising them.
God Emperor Baldur
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 02:14:23 +0000
Omnileech
PAL87
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
"Israel claims it did a great job. Pal87 repeats what Israel claims. Will the IDF post any evidence justifying its claim that it killed 1 one civilians for each militant? No.
The United Nations claims that the far more civilians were killed than militants.
Israel could start using WMDS and you'd still be praising them.
Hamas is responsible for those that died, not Israel.
PAL87
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 07:32:02 +0000
Quote:
The UN estimate that there has been an average three-to one ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in such conflicts worldwide. Three civilians for every combatant killed.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
Omnileech
PAL87
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
"Israel claims it did a great job. Pal87 repeats what Israel claims. Will the IDF post any evidence justifying its claim that it killed 1 one civilians for each militant? No.
The United Nations claims that the far more civilians were killed than militants.
Israel could start using WMDS and you'd still be praising them.
Also, as someone in the army, most conflicts in urban areas result in a 3-1 death ratio, 3-1 civilians killed for every militant. At best Israel had a 1.1-1 ratio, at worst a 3.6-1. Did you know that?
If Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians, the american army in iraq and Afghanistan is as well. Are you prepared to say that?
Omnileech
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 15:12:10 +0000
PAL87
Quote:
The UN estimate that there has been an average three-to one ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in such conflicts worldwide. Three civilians for every combatant killed.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
Omnileech
PAL87
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
"Israel claims it did a great job. Pal87 repeats what Israel claims. Will the IDF post any evidence justifying its claim that it killed 1 one civilians for each militant? No.
The United Nations claims that the far more civilians were killed than militants.
Israel could start using WMDS and you'd still be praising them.
Also, as someone in the army, most conflicts in urban areas result in a 3-1 death ratio, 3-1 civilians killed for every militant. At best Israel had a 1.1-1 ratio, at worst a 3.6-1. Did you know that?
If Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians, the american army in iraq and Afghanistan is as well. Are you prepared to say that?
No wonder you refuse to back up anything you've said with any sort of source when you go around claiming that men killed around the age of 20-29 are probably militants and should be considered as such.
I'll take the UN's statistics over your madeup horseshit any day.
PAL87
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:32:11 +0000
Omnileech
PAL87
Quote:
The UN estimate that there has been an average three-to one ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in such conflicts worldwide. Three civilians for every combatant killed.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
Omnileech
PAL87
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
"Israel claims it did a great job. Pal87 repeats what Israel claims. Will the IDF post any evidence justifying its claim that it killed 1 one civilians for each militant? No.
The United Nations claims that the far more civilians were killed than militants.
Israel could start using WMDS and you'd still be praising them.
Also, as someone in the army, most conflicts in urban areas result in a 3-1 death ratio, 3-1 civilians killed for every militant. At best Israel had a 1.1-1 ratio, at worst a 3.6-1. Did you know that?
If Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians, the american army in iraq and Afghanistan is as well. Are you prepared to say that?
No wonder you refuse to back up anything you've said with any sort of source when you go around claiming that men killed around the age of 20-29 are probably militants and should be considered as such.
I'll take the UN's statistics over your madeup horseshit any day.
If you would take a minute of your own time to check civilian casualty ratios you will see Israel keeps the death toll of civilians to militants killed within the average. They did Vetter in this conflict than the us military did in iraq.
If you take a minute of your time and looked at who was dying in gaza, you would see that males ages 20-29 were dying at a far greater rate than their percentage of the population if Israel was killing indescriminately they would be dying at a rate equal to their percentage of the population as every other demographic is. They aren't. You see 1900 dead Palestinians, but if you took time to look and see whi was dying you would see a pattern
PAL87
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- Posted: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 23:34:46 +0000
Omnileech
PAL87
Quote:
The UN estimate that there has been an average three-to one ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in such conflicts worldwide. Three civilians for every combatant killed.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
That is the estimated ratio in Afghanistan: three to one.
In Iraq, and in Kosovo, it was worse: the ratio is believed to be four-to-one. Anecdotal evidence suggests the ratios were very much higher in Chechnya and Serbia.
Omnileech
PAL87
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
Lets not forget, according to the idf(which is fair because the Palestinian casualties are being counted by Hamas run health department) 900 of the 1900 Palestinians killed were hamas militants.
Israel has run a just and ethical war, with just 1000 innocent people killed. Perfect. No other country could do better.
"Israel claims it did a great job. Pal87 repeats what Israel claims. Will the IDF post any evidence justifying its claim that it killed 1 one civilians for each militant? No.
The United Nations claims that the far more civilians were killed than militants.
Israel could start using WMDS and you'd still be praising them.
Also, as someone in the army, most conflicts in urban areas result in a 3-1 death ratio, 3-1 civilians killed for every militant. At best Israel had a 1.1-1 ratio, at worst a 3.6-1. Did you know that?
If Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians, the american army in iraq and Afghanistan is as well. Are you prepared to say that?
No wonder you refuse to back up anything you've said with any sort of source when you go around claiming that men killed around the age of 20-29 are probably militants and should be considered as such.
I'll take the UN's statistics over your madeup horseshit any day.
imblaine2
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- Posted: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 05:58:33 +0000
God Emperor Baldur
imblaine2
Josh ButterBalls PRO
It should be straight up time to evacuate everyone, at least the UN can help with that, doesn't make sense staying after the market bombing.
If military action is taken after yesterday's events, I'd be shocked.
If military action is taken after yesterday's events, I'd be shocked.
If you are talking about evacuating the Gaza, they can't, it's an occupied territory and they can't leave the area. They have no control over imports / exports, control of water, power or food.
The people of Gaza were told to evacuate.
Their homes, which would then be bombed. They are told to go to shelters and Refugee camps, which are also seemingly bombed. They aren't told to leave the region itself because they can't. It's an occupied territory. So the people there mostly have nowhere to go after their homes are blown up.
imblaine2
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- Posted: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 06:09:30 +0000
The Silent Seraph
imblaine2
Patton
imblaine2
I'm really dislike the way Israel is handling this situation and overall really starting to dislike the Israel government in general. Hamas is in the wrong for the situation as well and could have handled this is a million others way that would have been better but Israel and the U.S has a lot of blame for the massive civilian death toll as well.
Are you referring to the talking point of "Their using their own people as shields"? Which I do not understand at all. Gaza isn't that big, it's not even half the size of the city of Los Angeles. Where would they go to set up their rocket sites or bases? Even in the U.S some of our bases, harbors and airports are in the center or near civilian populations and we are thousands of times larger than Gaza. Israel is the more powerful of the two opponents, they are more technologically advanced and massively winning this. It's their responsibility to ensure as little civilian deaths as possible.
But I highly doubt the Israeli right wing government right now even wants that. They are more likely to be elected in times of war or potential times of war. They can continue the occupation if times like these arise more often and they get more aid from the U.S.
"It's small, so that gives them an excuse to violate international laws of armed conflict by stockpiling and firing weapons within hospitals, schools, playgrounds, and residences."
No. I don't care how small your country is, it's never so small that you're forced to put/fire weapons in those areas. Especially given the fact that it's coastal, AND has a buffer zone along the Israeli border! It's very simple to cordon off some beaches or set up in the buffer zone, thus creating a civilian-free area. They don't do this because it would allow Israel to attack them without collateral damage, which is Hamas' primary weapon in this war. There is no excuse for their tactics, and claiming otherwise demonstrates your ignorance. And you will note that even though our bases, harbors, and airports (which are civilian structures, so I don't know why you included them) are near civilian areas, they are separate entities, and can be targeted easily without civilian collateral.
"They're more advanced and they're winning so everything is their fault"
Idiotic argument. While Israel bears some responsibility for mitigating civilian impact of their assaults, they meet it easily. Israeli forces notify civilians in hot areas by phone, by air-dropped pamphlets, and more; and their attacks are targeted to known Hamas operations and storage centers. If the civilians don't move because they listen to Hamas telling them to "meet Israeli missiles with their bare chests", then they've committed suicide, not been murdered. If I see the warning that a train is coming across the tracks, and I keep driving and die, the conductor is not guilty of murder. I'm guilty of stupidity. And a train warning comes mere seconds/minutes before the train arrives, whereas Israeli warnings come hours to days beforehand. Before you respond with the equally moronic "Gaza is small they have nowhere to go", consider that the entire population of North America can stand shoulder to shoulder on the land available on Rhode Island. If my neighborhood was about to be shelled, you can bet I would walk out of the danger zone and stand in a field until it was over. There IS room.
Nice sentence editing, then arguing against the sentences you yourself wrote. Interesting stuff.
On the first one. Yeah, Gaza itself is the most densely packed places on earth. There are no other places to fire from other than within the city itself, since the people of the region can't leave the region. Also there is no excuse from firing from hospitals and schools, but there is also no excuse for the large civilian deaths due to attacks from Israeli forces on places where no rockets or hamas fighters were found. Such as the documented attack on the beach or the bombing of U.N camps.
On the second one. You driving your car onto train tracks while it's blowing a warning is incomparable to a robot call in the middle of the night giving you up to 20 mins to leave your house before it's blown up. In some cases they even simply dropped mortar shells on the roofs of apartment complexes as the "warning shot" of what is to come in less than a half hour. They aren't the same. And no they do not have places to go. Their region is occupied and Gaza itself is not even half the size of LA. One American City. In which the entire area is a warzone and at any given moment can be bombed. I mean where do they go? Hospitals? IDF has bombed those, Schools? IDF has bombed those. UN camps? IDF has continuously bombed those. There is no safety in the region and the responsibility does go to the more powerful of the two, because they are suppose to be better. Hamas is a terrorist group, but you do not fight "evil and terror" with more malice and terror. You are suppose to be better than them and they are failing to live up to that.
imblaine2
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- Posted: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 06:17:44 +0000
LoveLoud837
If Israel stops fighting, it will be wiped off the map tomorrow.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
If Gaza stops fighting, there will be peace tomorrow.
Note that the article says that Israel gives Gaza power. What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity?
Israel is wanting to end the HAMAS strikes. 2/3 of Israel is living in bomb shelters. The Iron Dome costs over 10,000 dollars per rocket to intercept. To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from. And if they use schools and hospitals and tunnels to fire rockets (and suicide-bomb donkeys and humans), then that is what they must do. Any country would do the same. Countries that are fueled by religion makes it difficult.
"What country that legitimately wants to kill the other gives that country electricity? " You are misunderstanding one thing. Gaza is not a country. it is occupied territory of Israel. So in fact to answer your question. Most countries. And if you look back in time even Imperialist countries gave their colonies resources in order for them to maintain themselves.
Yes they want to end the strikes. Idk if the bomb shelter one is true but i'll take your word for it. The Iron Dome is paid for and maintained by U.S tax dollars. "To end Hamas strikes, you must take out the places that they are firing from." That I do not agree with. To end the strikes completely you must take out either their supply of rockets, the leaders of the people firing them, or end the reason for the fighting in the first place. Once they fire their rockets there is a high chance they move on to some other location. But firing on those positions is understandable. But you also have to remember that the IDF is firing onto places where there are no rockets or Hamas militants and only civilians causing massive civilian deaths and more hatred toward Israel. Not helping in the long run, but I highly doubt they care.