DOMA struck down ; Prop 8 punted -- Gay Marriage Legal in CA

[Morbid Gnome]

http://www.scotusblog.com/
Live blog link.


Rulings will begin at 10am EDT.


Anyone else eager to hear the results and watching the news too? Anyone brave enough to make a bet about how Kennedy voted?


Edit:
DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment.
Full DOMA decision: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-307_g2bh.pdf

Edit2:
10:26 Amy Howe: We have Perry. By the Chief. The petitioners did not have standing to appeal the district court order.
10:26 Amy Howe: The line up is 5-4: Kennedy dissents, joined by Thomas, Alito, and Sotomayor.
10:26 Amy Howe: The decision of the Ninth Circuit is vacated and remanded.
10:27 Amy Howe: Kedar now has to bust out a new line-up for his statistics. Majority is Roberts with Scalia, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan.
Full Perry decision: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-144_8ok0.pdf

[Alexander J Luthor]

I just love how California claims to be one of the most advanced and progressive states in our country, but then gays and equality come up and the entire structure of their society is shaken to the core. "OH NOES!! Gays want to be treated like everyone else! We can't have that happen, now can we!?"

[Morbid Gnome]

To be fair though, California was one of the first states to take up the issue. Public opinion has changed quite a bit these past few years. If they held the vote today, it might not pass. /shrug

[Prince Ikari]

I have been following all of these cases that have been ruled or are being ruled on this week so I am eager to see what the Supreme Court does. I honestly have no clue what way this is going to go but I would think that DOMA is thrown out on federalism grounds, which seems to be what Justice Kennedy was hinting at and Prop 8 narrowly upheld with the Court pretty much taking the feds out of this issue entirely and leaving it up to the states. Even one of the most liberal Justices, Ginsburg, has stated that she is not big on making a broad ruling with these cases, criticizing the Court for what it did with Roe v. Wade. She felt it was too sudden to strike down every statewide ban on abortion because as she put it support for abortion was already growing at that time and all the ruling did was fuel the opposition.

So I expect a narrow ruling regardless of what happens. I will be the one idiot and try and guess how Kennedy votes. I think he will vote 5-4 with the liberal wing to strike down DOMA, and 5-4 with the conservative wing to uphold Prop 8. Of course I could be wrong and the Justices vote maybe 6-3 to send the decision to the lower courts or 5-4 to strike down both, with the Prop 8 decision only affecting California.

[Morbid Gnome]

Yeah, I think DOMA's demise is imminent. I'm split 50/50 on Prop 8 between the case being tossed out and a narrow ruling affecting only California.

15 minutes to go.

[Lucem Pristinam]

I don't see DOMA standing (I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if it does, and I'll roflcopter at the backlash that will surely follow). Government has no right to discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, race, sex, political alignment, blah, blah,

Prop 8 though is the dark horse in all this. Remember folks that Prop 8 was approved by voters in a constitutionally correct election back in 2008. So does SCOTUS look at this and tell the majority "NO"? I think the opinion should be that the law stands until such a time when the constituency can vote for itself to repeal it. They make the bed, they sleep in it. IMO, thats the only way Prop 8 should be struck down.

[Alexander J Luthor]

Just read on the feed that the poll is 50/50 as well. This is kind of intense.

[Malee]

I'm certainly hoping both will be overturned but it seems doma is a more sure thing than prop 8.

[Prince Ikari]

--Sky Kid Tai--

I don't see DOMA standing (I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if it does, and I'll roflcopter at the backlash that will surely follow). Government has no right to discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, race, sex, political alignment, blah, blah,

Prop 8 though is the dark horse in all this. Remember folks that Prop 8 was approved by voters in a constitutionally correct election back in 2008. So does SCOTUS look at this and tell the majority "NO"? I think the opinion should be that the law stands until such a time when the constituency can vote for itself to repeal it. They make the bed, they sleep in it. IMO, thats the only way Prop 8 should be struck down.

Agreed. Especially with your analysis of Prop 8. The Court would be setting bad precedence to strike down a referendum approved by a majority of voters in a democratic system of government. If the people of California want to do away with Prop 8 then it should be brought back to the ballot like was the case with Maine. The state legislature passed gay marriage, then the voters banned gay marriage, and now the voters voted for gay marriage last year.

[Morbid Gnome]

10:01

Amy Howe:
Here's Lyle with the first opinion. It's DOMA
10:02

Amy Howe:
5-4 per Kennedy.
10:02

Amy Howe:
Roberts dissents. Scalia dissents. Equal protection.

[Lucem Pristinam]

Prince Ikari

--Sky Kid Tai--

I don't see DOMA standing (I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if it does, and I'll roflcopter at the backlash that will surely follow). Government has no right to discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, race, sex, political alignment, blah, blah,

Prop 8 though is the dark horse in all this. Remember folks that Prop 8 was approved by voters in a constitutionally correct election back in 2008. So does SCOTUS look at this and tell the majority "NO"? I think the opinion should be that the law stands until such a time when the constituency can vote for itself to repeal it. They make the bed, they sleep in it. IMO, thats the only way Prop 8 should be struck down.

Agreed. Especially with your analysis of Prop 8. The Court would be setting bad precedence to strike down a referendum approved by a majority of voters in a democratic system of government. If the people of California want to do away with Prop 8 then it should be brought back to the ballot like was the case with Maine. The state legislature passed gay marriage, then the voters banned gay marriage, and now the voters voted for gay marriage last year.

If anything, this will show how much corruption has made its way into our government. Its the duty of the SCOTUS to keep federal government in line. They are the people's shield (though they certainly failed that duty with Blamocrae). The system still works if SCOTUS looks at DOMA and goes "nope", and then look at Prop 8 and essentially say, "You voted to get it, you gotta vote to get rid of it."

[Prince Ikari]

--Sky Kid Tai--

Prince Ikari

--Sky Kid Tai--

I don't see DOMA standing (I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if it does, and I'll roflcopter at the backlash that will surely follow). Government has no right to discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, race, sex, political alignment, blah, blah,

Prop 8 though is the dark horse in all this. Remember folks that Prop 8 was approved by voters in a constitutionally correct election back in 2008. So does SCOTUS look at this and tell the majority "NO"? I think the opinion should be that the law stands until such a time when the constituency can vote for itself to repeal it. They make the bed, they sleep in it. IMO, thats the only way Prop 8 should be struck down.

Agreed. Especially with your analysis of Prop 8. The Court would be setting bad precedence to strike down a referendum approved by a majority of voters in a democratic system of government. If the people of California want to do away with Prop 8 then it should be brought back to the ballot like was the case with Maine. The state legislature passed gay marriage, then the voters banned gay marriage, and now the voters voted for gay marriage last year.

If anything, this will show how much corruption has made its way into our government. Its the duty of the SCOTUS to keep federal government in line. They are the people's shield (though they certainly failed that duty with Blamocrae). The system still works if SCOTUS looks at DOMA and goes "nope", and then look at Prop 8 and essentially say, "You voted to get it, you gotta vote to get rid of it."

Well so far that is what the Court has done. They just struck down DOMA 5-4 with Kennedy joining the liberal wing to strike it down. But from what has been written it definitely appears that this is going to be a narrow ruling, going by the piece that Kennedy wrote in the majority opinion striking it down.

[Omnileech]

Alexander J Luthor

I just love how California claims to be one of the most advanced and progressive states in our country, but then gays and equality come up and the entire structure of their society is shaken to the core. "OH NOES!! Gays want to be treated like everyone else! We can't have that happen, now can we!?"

The vote was close, and the many parts of California that aren't near the coast tend to run conservative. People like you seem to forget about that.

[Morbid Gnome]

Why am I bothering to read Scalia's dissent? He's such a foul, disgusting s**t.

[Ringoringa]

Whatever happens, I live in a state that allows gay marriage already, so at least I'm good, right? Go, Massachusetts, let's go! *clap clap clap* Go, Massachusetts, let's go! *clap clap clap*

...I need some reason to feel proud of my state other than all the old buildings we have in Boston, okay? We don't have a Disney World like Florida. gonk