Death for Justin Harris & his wife or no? Update on the mom!

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

David2074

A mali

Wow. I don't know what to say now. Way too much premeditation.

Maybe. On the other hand so much damning evidence is almost in his favor in terms of deciding premeditated murder.

Think about it. You research a way to murder someone and then you do it.
Would you seriously stop places with the kid? Park where there are security cameras? Go back to the car multiple times? Send porn of yourself while it is happening so when the police investigate you look like a total douchebag?

If this was premeditated murder this man is not only callous but incredibly stupid.
(which of course is possible)

Also, I have researched child / pet in car safety issues. Never murdered my kids / grandkids or pets . Sometimes research is just research. It is possible he thought he had proven to himself the kid would be okay.the times they left it in the car. (This probably wasn't the first time)
Just saying - looking something up on the internet proves nothing.

The whole thing does sound very suspicious but if this was intentional murder the dude must really be an idiot. It crossed my mind to wonder if something else was at play - like drugs or alcohol

Well, if you researched hot car deaths, did you also research how to survive in prison? His wife was apparently contacted by the day care asking where little Conner was. Her answer? His dad must have left him in the car. This is HOURS before the day even ended.
And she went back to work.
First question when she gets to the jail? "You didn't say too much, did you?"
Never asked to see her son nor the shock and rage you would expect.
This reeks of two people who didn't want a child and simply wanted to get rid of it.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

More info on this guy. He's a piece of work.

[David2074]

Old Blue Collar Joe

David2074

A mali

Wow. I don't know what to say now. Way too much premeditation.

Maybe. On the other hand so much damning evidence is almost in his favor in terms of deciding premeditated murder.

Think about it. You research a way to murder someone and then you do it.
Would you seriously stop places with the kid? Park where there are security cameras? Go back to the car multiple times? Send porn of yourself while it is happening so when the police investigate you look like a total douchebag?

If this was premeditated murder this man is not only callous but incredibly stupid.
(which of course is possible)

Also, I have researched child / pet in car safety issues. Never murdered my kids / grandkids or pets . Sometimes research is just research. It is possible he thought he had proven to himself the kid would be okay.the times they left it in the car. (This probably wasn't the first time)
Just saying - looking something up on the internet proves nothing.

The whole thing does sound very suspicious but if this was intentional murder the dude must really be an idiot. It crossed my mind to wonder if something else was at play - like drugs or alcohol

Well, if you researched hot car deaths, did you also research how to survive in prison? His wife was apparently contacted by the day care asking where little Conner was. Her answer? His dad must have left him in the car. This is HOURS before the day even ended.
And she went back to work.
First question when she gets to the jail? "You didn't say too much, did you?"
Never asked to see her son nor the shock and rage you would expect.
This reeks of two people who didn't want a child and simply wanted to get rid of it.

(at part I bolded) Good God!
Again it sounds kind of mental or extremely idiotic criminal. If it was intentional murder she could have just said (dad) took Conner and pretended she knew nothing about him being left in the car. Intentional or extremely careless / irresponsible / drug addled - either way this couple sound seriously messed up.

I don't judge too much on how people are 'supposed' to react to bad news since folks react in different ways.
I've often thought if the cops broke the news to me about (some person I care about) dying they might walk away considering me a suspect because I likely would not give the "right" reaction. I tend to be extremely low key and I have watched people die with very little emotion showing. Same for receiving news of people dying. I don't think I am in shock exactly. More like I choose not to display my grief and I wait until I am in private to have a good cry over it.

An exception would be standing over my mom's dead body in ICU. But the previous night when I was in the ER trauma room standing there while a doctor and several nurses did stuff I was extremely calm. At one point someone tried to tell me I needed to leave and I said no. But when they saw I wasn't freaking or going to get in their way they decided it was okay.

When I called the ambulance I thought she wold be coming home that night / next day.
Later in the ER the doctor asked me whether I wanted my mom put on ventilation if she needed it.
In a very calm voice I said, "Is her situation that serious?"
Dr. "Yes, I'm afraid it is"
Me: "Then yes, please do."
My point being that from the emotional level we could have been talking about whether I wanted cream in my coffee. The doctor may have thought I was displaying the 'wrong' emotional response because I do not respond to drama / trauma in the way folks on prime time TV do.

Another example is how some people laugh when they are stressed and people who don't know them think they are being insensitive and totally inappropriate.

That said - one way or the other these folks should go to jail.
The only question in my mind is whether it was premeditated murder by very stupid uncaring people or some version of manslaughter by very stupid uncaring people.

[David2074]

Old Blue Collar Joe

More info on this guy. He's a piece of work.

I would never have 'not wanted' my daughters but it seems like if the didn't want him they should have considered adopting him out.

And if they did do it for the life insurance that is not only evil it is pathetic considering the policies were not that large.

[Reiken no Tenshi]

David2074

Old Blue Collar Joe

David2074

A mali

Wow. I don't know what to say now. Way too much premeditation.

Maybe. On the other hand so much damning evidence is almost in his favor in terms of deciding premeditated murder.

Think about it. You research a way to murder someone and then you do it.
Would you seriously stop places with the kid? Park where there are security cameras? Go back to the car multiple times? Send porn of yourself while it is happening so when the police investigate you look like a total douchebag?

If this was premeditated murder this man is not only callous but incredibly stupid.
(which of course is possible)

Also, I have researched child / pet in car safety issues. Never murdered my kids / grandkids or pets . Sometimes research is just research. It is possible he thought he had proven to himself the kid would be okay.the times they left it in the car. (This probably wasn't the first time)
Just saying - looking something up on the internet proves nothing.

The whole thing does sound very suspicious but if this was intentional murder the dude must really be an idiot. It crossed my mind to wonder if something else was at play - like drugs or alcohol

Well, if you researched hot car deaths, did you also research how to survive in prison? His wife was apparently contacted by the day care asking where little Conner was. Her answer? His dad must have left him in the car. This is HOURS before the day even ended.
And she went back to work.
First question when she gets to the jail? "You didn't say too much, did you?"
Never asked to see her son nor the shock and rage you would expect.
This reeks of two people who didn't want a child and simply wanted to get rid of it.

(at part I bolded) Good God!
Again it sounds kind of mental or extremely idiotic criminal. If it was intentional murder she could have just said (dad) took Conner and pretended she knew nothing about him being left in the car. Intentional or extremely careless / irresponsible / drug addled - either way this couple sound seriously messed up.

I don't judge too much on how people are 'supposed' to react to bad news since folks react in different ways.
I've often thought if the cops broke the news to me about (some person I care about) dying they might walk away considering me a suspect because I likely would not give the "right" reaction. I tend to be extremely low key and I have watched people die with very little emotion showing. Same for receiving news of people dying. I don't think I am in shock exactly. More like I choose not to display my grief and I wait until I am in private to have a good cry over it.

An exception would be standing over my mom's dead body in ICU. But the previous night when I was in the ER trauma room standing there while a doctor and several nurses did stuff I was extremely calm. At one point someone tried to tell me I needed to leave and I said no. But when they saw I wasn't freaking or going to get in their way they decided it was okay.

When I called the ambulance I thought she wold be coming home that night / next day.
Later in the ER the doctor asked me whether I wanted my mom put on ventilation if she needed it.
In a very calm voice I said, "Is her situation that serious?"
Dr. "Yes, I'm afraid it is"
Me: "Then yes, please do."
My point being that from the emotional level we could have been talking about whether I wanted cream in my coffee. The doctor may have thought I was displaying the 'wrong' emotional response because I do not respond to drama / trauma in the way folks on prime time TV do.

Another example is how some people laugh when they are stressed and people who don't know them think they are being insensitive and totally inappropriate.

That said - one way or the other these folks should go to jail.
The only question in my mind is whether it was premeditated murder by very stupid uncaring people or some version of manslaughter by very stupid uncaring people.

I think I get your point, but there's a huge difference between quiet grieving like your example and what this family did. Some people can avoid showing their grief in public, but at the very least, they DON'T act like this. Being able to control your emotions and remain level headed enough to deal with the current situation can be important and necessary. It's not even really an exception to this case, because if anything this case is the exception to that rule. Everyone handles grief differently, but the main thing there is that they are doing something to handle it.

Parents manage to hold it together long enough to deal with the news of their child's death and make choices, okay. Parents immediately announce upon being told that child isn't where he should be that the child must have died in this VERY SPECIFIC WAY that honestly had limited likelihood of happening without specific actions on behalf of those parents, THAT raises a few eyebrows.

With your situation, you at least noted making the decisions for your mother's care. With this family, no such notice was reported regarding the parents' care of their child. They weren't handling his situation. No denial or anger or sadness. Just "oh, he's probably dead and this is how" when they shouldn't have had any reason to automatically suspect such. And no, I don't buy the "leaving him in the car as worst fear" bs. If that was their worst fear, you'd think they'd have actively worked to prevent it.

Edit: Also, what parent takes out life insurance on a CHILD? No, seriously. WHY?

[David2074]

Nobody Famous

David2074

Old Blue Collar Joe

David2074

A mali

Wow. I don't know what to say now. Way too much premeditation.

Maybe. On the other hand so much damning evidence is almost in his favor in terms of deciding premeditated murder.

Think about it. You research a way to murder someone and then you do it.
Would you seriously stop places with the kid? Park where there are security cameras? Go back to the car multiple times? Send porn of yourself while it is happening so when the police investigate you look like a total douchebag?

If this was premeditated murder this man is not only callous but incredibly stupid.
(which of course is possible)

Also, I have researched child / pet in car safety issues. Never murdered my kids / grandkids or pets . Sometimes research is just research. It is possible he thought he had proven to himself the kid would be okay.the times they left it in the car. (This probably wasn't the first time)
Just saying - looking something up on the internet proves nothing.

The whole thing does sound very suspicious but if this was intentional murder the dude must really be an idiot. It crossed my mind to wonder if something else was at play - like drugs or alcohol

Well, if you researched hot car deaths, did you also research how to survive in prison? His wife was apparently contacted by the day care asking where little Conner was. Her answer? His dad must have left him in the car. This is HOURS before the day even ended.
And she went back to work.
First question when she gets to the jail? "You didn't say too much, did you?"
Never asked to see her son nor the shock and rage you would expect.
This reeks of two people who didn't want a child and simply wanted to get rid of it.

(at part I bolded) Good God!
Again it sounds kind of mental or extremely idiotic criminal. If it was intentional murder she could have just said (dad) took Conner and pretended she knew nothing about him being left in the car. Intentional or extremely careless / irresponsible / drug addled - either way this couple sound seriously messed up.

I don't judge too much on how people are 'supposed' to react to bad news since folks react in different ways.
I've often thought if the cops broke the news to me about (some person I care about) dying they might walk away considering me a suspect because I likely would not give the "right" reaction. I tend to be extremely low key and I have watched people die with very little emotion showing. Same for receiving news of people dying. I don't think I am in shock exactly. More like I choose not to display my grief and I wait until I am in private to have a good cry over it.

An exception would be standing over my mom's dead body in ICU. But the previous night when I was in the ER trauma room standing there while a doctor and several nurses did stuff I was extremely calm. At one point someone tried to tell me I needed to leave and I said no. But when they saw I wasn't freaking or going to get in their way they decided it was okay.

When I called the ambulance I thought she wold be coming home that night / next day.
Later in the ER the doctor asked me whether I wanted my mom put on ventilation if she needed it.
In a very calm voice I said, "Is her situation that serious?"
Dr. "Yes, I'm afraid it is"
Me: "Then yes, please do."
My point being that from the emotional level we could have been talking about whether I wanted cream in my coffee. The doctor may have thought I was displaying the 'wrong' emotional response because I do not respond to drama / trauma in the way folks on prime time TV do.

Another example is how some people laugh when they are stressed and people who don't know them think they are being insensitive and totally inappropriate.

That said - one way or the other these folks should go to jail.
The only question in my mind is whether it was premeditated murder by very stupid uncaring people or some version of manslaughter by very stupid uncaring people.

I think I get your point, but there's a huge difference between quiet grieving like your example and what this family did. Some people can avoid showing their grief in public, but at the very least, they DON'T act like this. Being able to control your emotions and remain level headed enough to deal with the current situation can be important and necessary. It's not even really an exception to this case, because if anything this case is the exception to that rule. Everyone handles grief differently, but the main thing there is that they are doing something to handle it.

Parents manage to hold it together long enough to deal with the news of their child's death and make choices, okay. Parents immediately announce upon being told that child isn't where he should be that the child must have died in this VERY SPECIFIC WAY that honestly had limited likelihood of happening without specific actions on behalf of those parents, THAT raises a few eyebrows.

With your situation, you at least noted making the decisions for your mother's care. With this family, no such notice was reported regarding the parents' care of their child. They weren't handling his situation. No denial or anger or sadness. Just "oh, he's probably dead and this is how" when they shouldn't have had any reason to automatically suspect such. And no, I don't buy the "leaving him in the car as worst fear" bs. If that was their worst fear, you'd think they'd have actively worked to prevent it.

Edit: Also, what parent takes out life insurance on a CHILD? No, seriously. WHY?

@ Most of what you said -
I mostly agree in general but my point was that how people handle shocking news covers the complete spectrum and while it is easy to judge from a couple of (possibly slanted) news articles mostly all repeating the same 'facts' it is difficult to know what is going on in their heads. I am not defending them specifically, I'm merely pointing it out as a general fact of life. In the short term, bad news isn't necessarily handling 'grief'. Some folks are not to the grieving point when they hear bad news. Some are in denial and/or say all manner of flip things that make them sound like horrible people.

I'll say it again. If these people committed premeditated murder of their child in the manner they did and reacted in the way that they did then they are complete idiots. Perhaps naturally or perhaps chemically induced but complete idiots either way. If it is just accidental manslaughter they are still idiots but if this was 'premeditated' and this is the best they could come up with they suck as both parents and as criminals.

@ The last comment about child life insurance -
LOTS of people purchase life insurance for their children. My folks did and they didn't murder me. The reasoning is twofold.
1. For a small policy (typically very cheap because the odds are the child won't die) there is coverage for funeral expenses if the child does die.
2. And this is the bigger reason - if the policy is a whole life policy or some other permanent / accrued cash value type of policy then buying early locks in a very low price. When the child becomes an adult the policy is typically given to the (now adult) child as a policy they can continue to maintain in their adult life (marriage, family etc) for a very reasonable cost.

Some financial advisers may not agree #2 is the best reasoning and that other investment vehicles will do a better job of providing for your child but that is the still the thinking behind it. That sort of policy has been pitched at new mothers since forever now. For example:
Gerberlife - The Grow Up Plan

Once again, not defending these (apparently very bad) parents I don't know.
I'm simply pointing out that having purchased life insurance on your young child is not a 'smoking gun'.
And once again, if it was premeditated murder and they bought the insurance recently to cash in on the death then double bonus idiot points for being stupid criminals.

Assuming the information given so far is factual then I am convinced these folks are stupid horrible people. I'm just not sure if they are stupid horrible murderers or just stupid horrible parents guilty of manslaughter.

[Reiken no Tenshi]

David2074

Nobody Famous

David2074

Old Blue Collar Joe

David2074

A mali

Wow. I don't know what to say now. Way too much premeditation.

Maybe. On the other hand so much damning evidence is almost in his favor in terms of deciding premeditated murder.

Think about it. You research a way to murder someone and then you do it.
Would you seriously stop places with the kid? Park where there are security cameras? Go back to the car multiple times? Send porn of yourself while it is happening so when the police investigate you look like a total douchebag?

If this was premeditated murder this man is not only callous but incredibly stupid.
(which of course is possible)

Also, I have researched child / pet in car safety issues. Never murdered my kids / grandkids or pets . Sometimes research is just research. It is possible he thought he had proven to himself the kid would be okay.the times they left it in the car. (This probably wasn't the first time)
Just saying - looking something up on the internet proves nothing.

The whole thing does sound very suspicious but if this was intentional murder the dude must really be an idiot. It crossed my mind to wonder if something else was at play - like drugs or alcohol

Well, if you researched hot car deaths, did you also research how to survive in prison? His wife was apparently contacted by the day care asking where little Conner was. Her answer? His dad must have left him in the car. This is HOURS before the day even ended.
And she went back to work.
First question when she gets to the jail? "You didn't say too much, did you?"
Never asked to see her son nor the shock and rage you would expect.
This reeks of two people who didn't want a child and simply wanted to get rid of it.

(at part I bolded) Good God!
Again it sounds kind of mental or extremely idiotic criminal. If it was intentional murder she could have just said (dad) took Conner and pretended she knew nothing about him being left in the car. Intentional or extremely careless / irresponsible / drug addled - either way this couple sound seriously messed up.

I don't judge too much on how people are 'supposed' to react to bad news since folks react in different ways.
I've often thought if the cops broke the news to me about (some person I care about) dying they might walk away considering me a suspect because I likely would not give the "right" reaction. I tend to be extremely low key and I have watched people die with very little emotion showing. Same for receiving news of people dying. I don't think I am in shock exactly. More like I choose not to display my grief and I wait until I am in private to have a good cry over it.

An exception would be standing over my mom's dead body in ICU. But the previous night when I was in the ER trauma room standing there while a doctor and several nurses did stuff I was extremely calm. At one point someone tried to tell me I needed to leave and I said no. But when they saw I wasn't freaking or going to get in their way they decided it was okay.

When I called the ambulance I thought she wold be coming home that night / next day.
Later in the ER the doctor asked me whether I wanted my mom put on ventilation if she needed it.
In a very calm voice I said, "Is her situation that serious?"
Dr. "Yes, I'm afraid it is"
Me: "Then yes, please do."
My point being that from the emotional level we could have been talking about whether I wanted cream in my coffee. The doctor may have thought I was displaying the 'wrong' emotional response because I do not respond to drama / trauma in the way folks on prime time TV do.

Another example is how some people laugh when they are stressed and people who don't know them think they are being insensitive and totally inappropriate.

That said - one way or the other these folks should go to jail.
The only question in my mind is whether it was premeditated murder by very stupid uncaring people or some version of manslaughter by very stupid uncaring people.

I think I get your point, but there's a huge difference between quiet grieving like your example and what this family did. Some people can avoid showing their grief in public, but at the very least, they DON'T act like this. Being able to control your emotions and remain level headed enough to deal with the current situation can be important and necessary. It's not even really an exception to this case, because if anything this case is the exception to that rule. Everyone handles grief differently, but the main thing there is that they are doing something to handle it.

Parents manage to hold it together long enough to deal with the news of their child's death and make choices, okay. Parents immediately announce upon being told that child isn't where he should be that the child must have died in this VERY SPECIFIC WAY that honestly had limited likelihood of happening without specific actions on behalf of those parents, THAT raises a few eyebrows.

With your situation, you at least noted making the decisions for your mother's care. With this family, no such notice was reported regarding the parents' care of their child. They weren't handling his situation. No denial or anger or sadness. Just "oh, he's probably dead and this is how" when they shouldn't have had any reason to automatically suspect such. And no, I don't buy the "leaving him in the car as worst fear" bs. If that was their worst fear, you'd think they'd have actively worked to prevent it.

Edit: Also, what parent takes out life insurance on a CHILD? No, seriously. WHY?

@ Most of what you said -
I mostly agree in general but my point was that how people handle shocking news covers the complete spectrum and while it is easy to judge from a couple of (possibly slanted) news articles mostly all repeating the same 'facts' it is difficult to know what is going on in their heads. I am not defending them specifically, I'm merely pointing it out as a general fact of life. In the short term, bad news isn't necessarily handling 'grief'. Some folks are not to the grieving point when they hear bad news. Some are in denial and/or say all manner of flip things that make them sound like horrible people.

I'll say it again. If these people committed premeditated murder of their child in the manner they did and reacted in the way that they did then they are complete idiots. Perhaps naturally or perhaps chemically induced but complete idiots either way. If it is just accidental manslaughter they are still idiots but if this was 'premeditated' and this is the best they could come up with they suck as both parents and as criminals.

@ The last comment about child life insurance -
LOTS of people purchase life insurance for their children. My folks did and they didn't murder me. The reasoning is twofold.
1. For a small policy (typically very cheap because the odds are the child won't die) there is coverage for funeral expenses if the child does die.
2. And this is the bigger reason - if the policy is a whole life policy or some other permanent / accrued cash value type of policy then buying early locks in a very low price. When the child becomes an adult the policy is typically given to the (now adult) child as a policy they can continue to maintain in their adult life (marriage, family etc) for a very reasonable cost.

Some financial advisers may not agree #2 is the best reasoning and that other investment vehicles will do a better job of providing for your child but that is the still the thinking behind it. That sort of policy has been pitched at new mothers since forever now. For example:
Gerberlife - The Grow Up Plan

Once again, not defending these (apparently very bad) parents I don't know.
I'm simply pointing out that having purchased life insurance on your young child is not a 'smoking gun'.
And once again, if it was premeditated murder and they bought the insurance recently to cash in on the death then double bonus idiot points for being stupid criminals.

Assuming the information given so far is factual then I am convinced these folks are stupid horrible people. I'm just not sure if they are stupid horrible murderers or just stupid horrible parents guilty of manslaughter.

Oh no, I fully agree with you there. I've seen some people react in all different ways to grief, from denial to anger to crying to numbness to even a few claimed cases of what's called "ugly grieving". I've seen some people even report a sense of relief at the loss after a long period of stress leading up to it. Sad, yes, but they're relieved from the sudden loss of that stress. Even then there's still some reaction to the events. That's what I'm not seeing with this family. A reaction regarding the child. Granted, it is in part due to the bias of the article, but it presents the focus of the parents as being towards each other and noted their complete lack of reaction towards the kid. Dad was calling the mom instead of 911 and it was a bystander who called authorities. Mom's concerns were noted to be about the dad and if he said anything instead of the fact that her kid is dead.

But my point is the point you just made. They were stupid and outright suspicious in how they went about it. There was nothing to indicate that the child was dead, only that he didn't end up where he was supposed to be, and the first conclusion the mom jumps to is "he must be dead because of x"? Something is definitely wrong there.

About life insurance - okay, that I didn't know. I was under the impression that life insurance was mostly done for the caretakers to help ensure that their families may have some assistance or care if anything should happen to them.

It's too easy to say they're murderers. Either way, they are indeed stupid.