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Update 1/21

Wowowow! We're getting tons of feedback on those new packs and pricing so I thought I'd give a bit more detail on how they relate to the old packs, since that seems to be what everyone's worried about. Overall, this change was to make it easier for those of you questing for rare (3 star) cards and better odds. Read the original post below on the intent behind the changes and the problems we wanted to address.

OK, now on to the new packs. A few things you should know:

1) On a pure essence to pack value basis, these packs should pay overall better odds on a rare than what you had before.
2) Think of the Silver (5000 essence) as between old Ruby (4000 essence) and Diamond (6000 essence) in terms of its payout but now available to all unlocked at some high levels.
3) Think of the Gold as a completely new pack benchmarked against the 25K Iona's Reserves (used to be unlocked at lvl 70).

Again, to summarize, the changes were not to make rares more difficult to get, but slightly easier to get and available to everyone regardless of level.

Hope that helps!

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I know just a week or two ago I'd stated that we like to keep these changes to a minimum because we know how disruptive they can be. That said, many of you pointed out huge flaws with the existing system that deserve to be addressed sooner rather than later.

This will be a pretty radical departure from our existing essence booster packs - it's not just a rebalancing of payouts and pricing, so please hear me out:

1) Many of you are wondering which essence packs are the best ones to buy. That's bad.

That tells me the current design is confusing/not working. The intention was to reward progress with access to booster packs with incrementally better odds. However, it turns out that the incremental improvement in the odds with each pack wasn't enough to counter the variance of the payouts in small samples. Even if in theory the Ruby pack is supposed to pay better than the Sapphire, buying 5 or even 10 of each may sometimes give you roughly the same result. So it wasn't much of a reward at all, especially as players decided to buy more of the lower level packs because of the perception that they paid out better for the same amount of essence.

Change: we'll reduce the number of packs from 8 to 3 and make them really distinct from each other in price and content.

2) Lots of players were having a really, really tough time getting a rare card. Also bad.

Getting a rare card should not be easy (or it shouldn't be called a rare), but opening packs should not feel like an endless stream of disappointments. Because of the progressive nature of the packs, lower-to-mid level players had much worse odds than high level players. Since we had to cap payouts at the Diamond level and work our way down from there, low-to-mid level payouts ended up quite punitive.

To fix this, we'll remove the progressive booster pack system and make the same 3 essence packs available to all, regardless of level. To reward progress, we're thinking of putting in distinct level-based rewards instead (e.g., get a rare card when you hit level X, get a booster pack when you hit level Y, etc.). These rewards won't be in by Monday, though. smile

3) People who wanted to earn a rare had only one option: buy tons of essence packs each with a low chance of getting a rare.

We think there should be an essence pack with a pretty good chance at a rare. It won't come cheap, but it will be a different option to play. You can choose to roll the dice many times, each with a low probability or save up to roll the dice once with a more certain result.

Questions? Comments? Feel free to chime in here and I'll do my best to respond.
Gavyn the Mighty's avatar

Revered Inquisitor

Just briefly reading through, while a drastic change... it seems like it will be a better overall system...


Guys, seriously... if there is a thread or a post around here that you don't like... leave it be. Spreading hate and trolling people has no place in this community. Certain people may have been in the wrong, but when you troll or hate on them you get in the wrong too. Don't prolong it or add to it; let it go. If it is blatant trolling, a misplaced thread or anything that violates the ToS, report it and move along. Don't feed the trolls and don't add to the hatred. This is a nice, clean and happy community. Please, don't dirty it.

I am Gavyn the Mighty and I approve of this message.
santime's avatar

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Thank you very much for the update; this, and the recent heralds-heroes update sound really awesome, and seem to get things way more balanced.

The only thing that I keep thinking about is the idea of a Marketplace where people would be able to buy/sell cards to or from other users. That might really help users to get their desired cards. For example, today I've bought 2 cash packs, and got 2 Jakyrs, while I was really looking for a demon hero or herald, so I'd love to be able to sell at least one, and use the currency I get to buy a demon. Also it might help really unlucky users who can't afford buying cash packs: they can just save enough essence and buy certain cards they lack instead of relying on packs (even with the updated packs the faction is random, so say, you're looking for a demon hero, or a lightning demon, but get avalon hero or a tower guardian instead: those are still rare, just not the ones you really needed). Honestly, I believe that will help to reduce the drama around packs drastically.
gataka's avatar

Familiar Lunatic

Haven't absorbed the change yet but it's looking good.
santime
Thank you very much for the update; this, and the recent heralds-heroes update sounds really awesome, and seem to get things way more balanced.

The only think that I keep thinking about is the idea of a Marketplace where people would be able to buy/sell cards to or from other users. That might really help users to get their desired cards. For example, today I've bought 2 cash packs, and got 2 Jakyrs, while I was really looking for a demon hero or herald, so I'd love to be able to sell at least one, and use the currency I get to buy a demon. Also it might help really unlucky users who can't afford buying cash packs: they can just save enough essence and buy certain cards they lack instead of relying on packs (even with the updated packs the faction is random, so say, you're looking for a demon hero, or a lightning demon, but get avalon hero or a tower guardian instead: those are still rare, just not the ones you really needed). Honestly, I believe that will help to reduce the drama around packs drastically.


Thanks for the feedback. Yes, the marketplace is definitely on the roadmap and we've already got a basic design for it in place.
gataka's avatar

Familiar Lunatic

"To reward progress, we're thinking of putting in distinct level-based rewards instead (e.g., get a rare card when you hit level X, get a booster pack when you hit level Y, etc.). These rewards won't be in by Monday, though. "

Safe to assume you won't retroactively give out any of those things? : P

Also, still 5 cards per pack?
Starshine's avatar

Magical Gatekeeper

Thank you for making changes to the packs! I was very dissapointed with the recent changes, it felt like I have a better chance of getting a rare from the end game pvp bonus card than buying packs xd

If you do put in level based rewards, can we get them when we have already leveled past it? emotion_kirakira
K76's avatar

Familiar Phantom

As long as I don't burn another 40k essence on 1 & 2 star cards, I approve! I like the idea of fewer packs, with more distinct content, too.
Sagebomb's avatar

Aged Prophet

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Having distinct payouts that payout what they say would be nice.

Since new years Ive spent 315k on packs recording everything (so this year only)

Even though my sample size was tiny

with diamonds I spent 108k, and only got 2s and below

with ruby I spent 112k and got 3x3 + 3x4

with sapps I spent 45k and got 1 3+ which was my first 5 (yay XD)

with 2 ionas 50k got me two exceedingly average 3 star cards.

So from that It seemed rubys were the best, and then everything else was really average.

Knowing what you are getting into when you get a pack will be nice.


1). The data above relating to this, is basically why at atas I was fishing for info on what respective odd ranks were. Though again 315k essense is still a small data pool.

Although is that 3 packs + pay packs?

2) Yeah I didnt get my first and only (non-starter) herald until well after level 80, I know of at least one 80 who still dosent have one. Spending into the millions of essence you would hope to see them XD.

3) Would the pack with a pretty good chance at a rare still be like the Ionas, which in most cases seems to give a rare that you can already get easily post game. Prehaps will we get a pack that has a pretty good chance at a epic+...like a elite in essence, price of course would be mega but thats fine.
icekoldozy's avatar

Cute Cutesmasher

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gracewar7
Lots of players were having a really, really tough time getting a rare card.


I agree this system appears to be a lot more fair.
but spare some thought for the unlucky minority
Some people who entered the beta in the middle waves between first invited with better odds for rares and up. Are now already are at a high level so will now have missed the progression rewards. So may end up being the unluckiest lot with the least good cards.
gataka
"To reward progress, we're thinking of putting in distinct level-based rewards
Also, still 5 cards per pack?


I think we can expect that to change as well.
Robotic phantom100's avatar

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gracewar7
santime
Thank you very much for the update; this, and the recent heralds-heroes update sounds really awesome, and seem to get things way more balanced.

The only think that I keep thinking about is the idea of a Marketplace where people would be able to buy/sell cards to or from other users. That might really help users to get their desired cards. For example, today I've bought 2 cash packs, and got 2 Jakyrs, while I was really looking for a demon hero or herald, so I'd love to be able to sell at least one, and use the currency I get to buy a demon. Also it might help really unlucky users who can't afford buying cash packs: they can just save enough essence and buy certain cards they lack instead of relying on packs (even with the updated packs the faction is random, so say, you're looking for a demon hero, or a lightning demon, but get avalon hero or a tower guardian instead: those are still rare, just not the ones you really needed). Honestly, I believe that will help to reduce the drama around packs drastically.


Thanks for the feedback. Yes, the marketplace is definitely on the roadmap and we've already got a basic design for it in place.

thats sounds good would it be ok if i pitch a idea?
ok ^w^ well im playing another online game that has a card trade system in it (the cards are a side mission and is low on the scale when comes to impact on the game lol) so basicly the player gets to pick cards he/she wishes to trade they pick the 3 cards to put in the exchange box(for heralds it would be good for more or no limt on the number of cards to trade) and other players (normaly friends cuz thats how this one works but there is no need for that in heralds) can trade them cards of the same type. blue for blue, green for green, and so on. so another idea is to do like gaia's trade system mixed with this one that way no one can get ripped off but there should be a way for players to turn off or switch between the same type oppion so that if the want a card from some one like a 5* but they dont have a 5* they can use 4* insted that equel up to a 5* like two 1*=2* two 2*=3* and so on
Only Gray's avatar

Destructive Loverboy

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This is a big change.

I think 3 different packs is a bit... inadequate. If you guys are counting cash packs in, that is.

I find that a reward/incentive to level up is nice, but what about everybody else that's been playing for a while? People that have hit the level cap have nothing to work for.

Thanks for listening.
ryry Kenny_McCormick ryry's avatar

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Basically what Only Gray said; so long as the 3 packs don't include cash packs, and people who are already a high level get all of the "level x"-type rewards that they should, I approve. 3nodding
Holeypaladin's avatar

Unbeatable Knight

I still think each pack should have one rare or better, like other TCGs do. It's still rare because there are still 4 commons for every rare if you go 4-2-1. But at least you know what you're getting when you buy it.

I don't see any problem at all with increasing packs to 7 cards with 4 commons, 2 uncommon, and 1 rare+ per pack. The more expensive packs can have a higher chance of that rare being an epic or legendary.

Considering how 90% of the rare cards I DO draw are worthless to me, just the very fact that a card is rare doesn't mean I'll ever use it. Ever. Heck, look at Kolyr, 4 stars and completely worthless.

If too many people start to acquire collections of four of each rare card, I figure it's time to bring out new cards, not punish everyone else by reducing the drop rates (which also serves to increase the advantage of the people who already have them).

Level 80 is supposed to be endgame. So if people have a lot of rare cards by level 80, it's perfectly acceptable. But I see people who are level 80 and have never acquired a five star card. That to me says something is wrong.

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