Proposal: Change Essence Reward

[Moarie]

the smart people will play with kingdom c: and get more essences

[dreamsk]

Is the 80% just some arbitrary number for the conversion of mana to essence?

Why would the winner get more essence if the opponent summoned more units? Isnt summoning units more important than the portal victory in this proposal?

I'd suppose I could shaft someone in essence if I summoned only my herald, knowing where the portals are already.

[TercesX]

I feel a points based system is probably the easiest way to diversify gameplay. The numbers might be hard to work out initially, but theoretcially you should make multiple types of wins relatively equal.

For example (and forgive my bad baseless numbers, I am sleepless while typing this)
Portals = 100 points
Kills = relative to unit cost/strength- average unit =40 points
Summons would probably be a slightly smaller number, because, honest, it is much easier to summon than kill (in general)
Shared portals will probably be worth something slightly less, say 80 points.

I think we need a good list of the average 'types' of wins though.

Gah... I might try to work out the numbers when I'm rested. Or somebody else could help...

[zigazav1]

I don't like this idea, it means less Essence, and less Gold, for us all! You have ALREADY have made a HORRIBLE choice dumming-down our pay in Gold per Essence! (Was 30 Gold per Essence, now it 10 Gold per Essence!) Don't dumb-down our Essence pay too by this! I'm am 10000% AGAINST this idea! I don't CARE if this makes another "fair" way to get Essence, you would be cutting our pay YET AGAIN! Most of us just play the game just to get Gold anyways! Don't mean to be rude by saying this, but Gaia staff, are you scared of having normal users getting rich without a H*ll load of trouble? It sure looks like it, that you keep making it harder every time it seems, to get lots of Gold by games here at Gaia. Well, so this doesn't look like a flame post (which I'm not intending any of that) or a spam post, I'll cut-off from here. I was just worried about the pay for me and other HoC players is all. Adios! I'm heading away from this thread now.

[CelesaAkitaka]

zigazav

I don't like this idea, it means less Essence, and less Gold, for us all! You have ALREADY have made a HORRIBLE choice dumming-down our pay in Gold per Essence! (Was 30 Gold per Essence, now it 10 Gold per Essence!) Don't dumb-down our Essence pay too by this! I'm am 10000% AGAINST this idea! I don't CARE if this makes another "fair" way to get Essence, you would be cutting our pay YET AGAIN! Most of us just play the game just to get Gold anyways! Don't mean to be rude by saying this, but Gaia staff, are you scared of having normal users getting rich without a H*ll load of trouble? It sure looks like it, that you keep making it harder every time it seems, to get lots of Gold by games here at Gaia. Well, so this doesn't look like a flame post (which I'm not intending any of that) or a spam post, I'll cut-off from here. I was just worried about the pay for me and other HoC players is all. Adios! I'm heading away from this thread now.

It's more about making the game enjoyable. If everyone has easy essence then there's no point in packs. I'm playing for the sake of having fun, not for having to get a bunch of gold. If the argument is the staff being afraid to give lots of gold, why not the game just be a button that gives you gold every time you pay? Beta testing doesn't normally pay. A game is meant to have fun and we're all trying to help out to make the game fun and balanced for everyone.

[CelesaAkitaka]

I've been trying to push this a couple pages back, but no response on it. There is one more way to make it fair too. I know the hardcore players wouldn't like it, but a daily cap would prevent people from going too far.

TercesX

I feel a points based system is probably the easiest way to diversify gameplay. The numbers might be hard to work out initially, but theoretcially you should make multiple types of wins relatively equal.

For example (and forgive my bad baseless numbers, I am sleepless while typing this)
Portals = 100 points
Kills = relative to unit cost/strength- average unit =40 points
Summons would probably be a slightly smaller number, because, honest, it is much easier to summon than kill (in general)
Shared portals will probably be worth something slightly less, say 80 points.

I think we need a good list of the average 'types' of wins though.

Gah... I might try to work out the numbers when I'm rested. Or somebody else could help...

[zigazav1]

CelesaAkitaka

zigazav

I don't like this idea, it means less Essence, and less Gold, for us all! You have ALREADY have made a HORRIBLE choice dumming-down our pay in Gold per Essence! (Was 30 Gold per Essence, now it 10 Gold per Essence!) Don't dumb-down our Essence pay too by this! I'm am 10000% AGAINST this idea! I don't CARE if this makes another "fair" way to get Essence, you would be cutting our pay YET AGAIN! Most of us just play the game just to get Gold anyways! Don't mean to be rude by saying this, but Gaia staff, are you scared of having normal users getting rich without a H*ll load of trouble? It sure looks like it, that you keep making it harder every time it seems, to get lots of Gold by games here at Gaia. Well, so this doesn't look like a flame post (which I'm not intending any of that) or a spam post, I'll cut-off from here. I was just worried about the pay for me and other HoC players is all. Adios! I'm heading away from this thread now.

It's more about making the game enjoyable. If everyone has easy essence then there's no point in packs. I'm playing for the sake of having fun, not for having to get a bunch of gold. If the argument is the staff being afraid to give lots of gold, why not the game just be a button that gives you gold every time you pay? Beta testing doesn't normally pay. A game is meant to have fun and we're all trying to help out to make the game fun and balanced for everyone.

Yeah, but playing random match-up for 3x multiplier bonus is hard anyways (I keep getting opponents who whoop my butt!), so why cut our pay for there with this new method of calculation? I feel like getting ripped-off on Essence if this new rule comes into play. They've already cut the Gold pay-out to 1/3 of what was once the payout. If this new method comes into play, it makes so you are not getting your money's worth out of your hard work! Besides, when the beta ends, aren't they going to scrap everyone's decks anyways? We'll get a big account of starting Essence when it comes, but I don't wanna lose all my rare cards or my deck itself (I'm sure none of us others want that for ourselves either), so we should be allowed to as much Essences' worth of our hard work as we can until the beta ends. And I'm already not being able to get more than 1000 Essence per game lately anyways (I keep losing, even with my strong deck!), so they shouldn't use this new rule. I stand by what I said: Gaia staff is scared to have people get rich quickly! They don't want people to get richer, or close to, how rich they are! They should stop disrespecting the players of the staff currently trying to cheat users of the Gold they deserve for their hard work! And booster packs are expensive too! What's-up with that?

[CelesaAkitaka]

zigazav

CelesaAkitaka

zigazav

I don't like this idea, it means less Essence, and less Gold, for us all! You have ALREADY have made a HORRIBLE choice dumming-down our pay in Gold per Essence! (Was 30 Gold per Essence, now it 10 Gold per Essence!) Don't dumb-down our Essence pay too by this! I'm am 10000% AGAINST this idea! I don't CARE if this makes another "fair" way to get Essence, you would be cutting our pay YET AGAIN! Most of us just play the game just to get Gold anyways! Don't mean to be rude by saying this, but Gaia staff, are you scared of having normal users getting rich without a H*ll load of trouble? It sure looks like it, that you keep making it harder every time it seems, to get lots of Gold by games here at Gaia. Well, so this doesn't look like a flame post (which I'm not intending any of that) or a spam post, I'll cut-off from here. I was just worried about the pay for me and other HoC players is all. Adios! I'm heading away from this thread now.

It's more about making the game enjoyable. If everyone has easy essence then there's no point in packs. I'm playing for the sake of having fun, not for having to get a bunch of gold. If the argument is the staff being afraid to give lots of gold, why not the game just be a button that gives you gold every time you pay? Beta testing doesn't normally pay. A game is meant to have fun and we're all trying to help out to make the game fun and balanced for everyone.

Yeah, but playing random match-up for 3x multiplier bonus is hard anyways (I keep getting opponents who whoop my butt!), so why cut our pay for there with this new method of calculation? I feel like getting ripped-off on Essence if this new rule comes into play. They've already cut the Gold pay-out to 1/3 of what was once the payout. If this new method comes into play, it makes so you are not getting your money's worth out of your hard work! Besides, when the beta ends, aren't they going to scrap everyone's decks anyways? We'll get a big account of starting Essence when it comes, but I don't wanna lose all my rare cards or my deck itself (I'm sure none of us others want that for ourselves either), so we should be allowed to as much Essences' worth of our hard work as we can until the beta ends. And I'm already not being able to get more than 1000 Essence per game lately anyways (I keep losing, even with my strong deck!), so they shouldn't use this new rule. I stand by what I said: Gaia staff is scared to have people get rich quickly! They don't want people to get richer, or close to, how rich they are! They should stop disrespecting the players of the staff currently trying to cheat users of the Gold they deserve for their hard work! And booster packs are expensive too! What's-up with that?

You can get the best pack within 2 matches from what you said with the 1000. Again, you dont get paid in betas normally. I beta for Microsoft all the time be it a new flight sim or new features on xbox and it's the ability to get to see things first and get provide input to make the programs more towards what sees fit. This is a game so if you put a lot of time into it and it feels like work, then you may want to wait til the full game comes out or just play a little bit.

[ryry Kenny_McGroot ryry]

zigazav

first of all, not everybody here is a gold whore. we actually play the game because it's enjoyable, not because we care about a virtual currency.

and second of all, there's this thing.

called "economics."

[Red Kutai]

CelesaAkitaka

A campaign would be mighty hard to have for this being a card/board game. The closest to that would feel like playing the Star Wars TCG where you could choose to play a card that you had to complete a scenario. The game is awesome, but it was difficult for newcomers to learn or want to play.

Just to be clear, I believe he was referring to the second half of that thread, where I suggested 'quests' for Heralds. This wouldn't be hard to achieve in a card/board game at all, and would play pretty similarly to the quest mechanics used in Magic: the Gathering. Your Herald would essentially have 'tasks' for you to complete, and would reward you with Essence when you complete them. Initially I intended this to run parallel to the core Essence-granting system, and I'm actually not certain it would work as well without that system to lean back on. sweatdrop

----

I'd argue a system based on Units summoned is even worse than one based on Units lost - Essence should be rewarded for winning, and there simply isn't any direct causal link between summoning Units and winning the game. This generates weird scenarios wherein I want to hold back and summon more Units - and let my opponent summon more Units - rather than simply finishing the game directly. Any system which rewards players for something that doesn't directly end the game is going to generate those scenarios - rewarding players for defeating Units did that at least part of the time.

I think - like some others have mentioned - that you may simply be trying too hard; it may simply be the best option to offer 'flat rate' rewards for basic gameplay victories. Reward 100 Essence for capturing a Victory Portal; perhaps 5 Essence for exploring a new Region; 250 for defeating your opponent's Herald. The important thing to remember is that the Events you're rewarding need to be irreversible - they need to increase the entropy in the game, and push it toward an end state. When you reward things which are naturally recurring (playing Units and combat both recur until decks run empty, and you don't want games waiting around for that to happen), then players naturally want those events to recur as many times as possible. What you really need to do is figure out how you want games to end, and only reward players for pushing the game toward that point - anything else just sends players mixed signals, and discourages them from finishing the game in favour of better rewards...

[Z_SleepyShadow_Z]

love the idea

[gataka]

zigazav

it makes so you are not getting your money's worth out of your hard work!

You seem deadset on working for v-currency: if work you want wouldn't it be more practical to use that time to get real flexible money and later convert to v-currency (assuming you can convert) ?

Or is real work not an option for some reasons?

Red Kutai

Just to be clear, I believe he was referring to the second half of that thread, where I suggested 'quests' for Heralds.

That is correct. Maybe I should clear that up.

[CelesaAkitaka]

Red Kutai

CelesaAkitaka

A campaign would be mighty hard to have for this being a card/board game. The closest to that would feel like playing the Star Wars TCG where you could choose to play a card that you had to complete a scenario. The game is awesome, but it was difficult for newcomers to learn or want to play.

Just to be clear, I believe he was referring to the second half of that thread, where I suggested 'quests' for Heralds. This wouldn't be hard to achieve in a card/board game at all, and would play pretty similarly to the quest mechanics used in Magic: the Gathering. Your Herald would essentially have 'tasks' for you to complete, and would reward you with Essence when you complete them. Initially I intended this to run parallel to the core Essence-granting system, and I'm actually not certain it would work as well without that system to lean back on. sweatdrop

----

I'd argue a system based on Units summoned is even worse than one based on Units lost - Essence should be rewarded for winning, and there simply isn't any direct causal link between summoning Units and winning the game. This generates weird scenarios wherein I want to hold back and summon more Units - and let my opponent summon more Units - rather than simply finishing the game directly. Any system which rewards players for something that doesn't directly end the game is going to generate those scenarios - rewarding players for defeating Units did that at least part of the time.

I think - like some others have mentioned - that you may simply be trying too hard; it may simply be the best option to offer 'flat rate' rewards for basic gameplay victories. Reward 100 Essence for capturing a Victory Portal; perhaps 5 Essence for exploring a new Region; 250 for defeating your opponent's Herald. The important thing to remember is that the Events you're rewarding need to be irreversible - they need to increase the entropy in the game, and push it toward an end state. When you reward things which are naturally recurring (playing Units and combat both recur until decks run empty, and you don't want games waiting around for that to happen), then players naturally want those events to recur as many times as possible. What you really need to do is figure out how you want games to end, and only reward players for pushing the game toward that point - anything else just sends players mixed signals, and discourages them from finishing the game in favour of better rewards...

I'd still find the quests a little hard to pull off just based on having to add a whole new mechanic to the game (magic didnt have that for a while) but also I don't know what tasks you could really have them do other than take spaces or kill units. I mean this in more of a throwing cards in your deck to do this.

I agree with the flat rate points (I brought it up here) as thay would essentially be the quests that you are mentioning. It would save from having to make new cards for quests and would just be coded in pre-set bonus points. It would be nice just to do in general versus putting it on one unit. I still believe a herald should be a "unique" card and you can't play more than one on the board at a time.

[KitsunEva]

Would this be inSTEAD of or in ADDITION to?

i think it's always better to have more options...it's hard when you're out gunned, but still managed to get 6 portals first and yet have no reward for it
(potentially a whole battle could pass without a single death on either side and the winner gets nothing :/ i have had this happen when one opponent kept retreating every battle and i ended up getting all the portals...but i got zero rewards)

however, if you do end up fighting to the death, you should be rewarded for that as well...if have fewer portals and are backed into a corner, but manage to take over your enemy and win...that's amazing!

factors of winning:
-number of units summoned (varied worth based on needed mana as you have listed)
-number of kills
-number of portals found (yes, FOUND, not attuned...because your original home portal already counts as one portal, so the "max" would be 5 found, unless your opponent found them at the same time and you need a tie breaker)

i recently lost a battle and ended up with more points than my opponent (thanks to my kills) while i agree winners should be awarded for their portals, fighters should not be penalized for their well fought battles...to compensate, i say ADD ways to achieve essence, don't change what there is (maybe adjusting the amounts if you want, but don't take it away completely)

[zigazav1]

Fine!! You all in this for the new rule?!! See if I care if you get totally messed-up with this! X( Just don't expect me to play it anymore if this new method comes into the game!