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CelesaAkitaka's avatar

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CelesaAkitaka
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Uhm, I don't know if you misunderstood my words. I know it's a game. The problem in forfeiting is that the player not triggering it doesn't get a reward. However, if someone forfeits after he played at his/her best but has been cornered, is unable to possibly win and the opponent is just trying to kill more units before winning, then it would be right if the forfeiting player still gets something. So, people can misuse the forfeiting option but it's still a necessary option since players can also go for unfair play. If you think people could start games and forfeit to just get the bonus and quickly farm essence, there're two easy options to avoid this (and they're not mutually exclusive):
- don't allow forfeit in private match mode;
- don't allow forfeit before the first battle.


Private match shouldn't give anything since you're playing with friends anyways. As for not allowing before the first battle, people will still close out their windows and the game will time out eventually.


Just going to point out that some people play others on a regular basis for the purposes of training and good sport cause they can ensure a good game competitive game on their level......


That's fine, but you shouldn't get essence on similar levels to as when you don't get to choose your opponent. The reason you go in queue to find a match is cause it's generally random who you face. On the same sense, I could just do a private match and face a mule account I make, or face a friend and let my friend win and dominate. That's bad essence. It's also why if you play a game like Halo or Call of Duty, if you play a private match, you dont get experience or anything to assist you in multiplayer, or you get very little.
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I like the blossoming beelzebub's idea of having a variety of awards.

That being said, after looking at the comments, it seems that the new plan would encourage users to draw out the battle instead of winning. :/ I don't mind too much, but I think it'd be unfair to players who really enjoy the game and aren't just trying to get as much gold as possible.
all i want is to be able to get more essence in not be cheated by quitters
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The current essence reward system has a couple odd aspects:

- forfeit during a battle means the winner gets "cheated"
- doesn't encourage different modes of play. If you sneak around and get all 6 portals, that is a brilliant victory -- but you won't get much because you didn't kill the other person

We are considering the following changes:

- essence is based on total summoned units, not killed units (say, nn% of all summoned units -- not sure yet what the right percentage would be)
- essence reward is split based on the different in portals.

For example, let's say you win 6 points to 4. You summoned 100 mana of units, and your opponent summoned 120. Say we're using 80% of all summoned units.

Total summons = 100 + 120 = 220 * 80% = 176 mana

You get 176 * (6 / 10) = 105.6
Opponent gets 176 * (4 / 10) = 70.4

... and then efactor would be applied.

Questions / concerns below.


Not sure if we can quote or not, but question.
Wouldn't that mean you also have to lower the cost of the store units and packs slightly, to make it not seem as far out of reach. Like with the example you gave, you get 105.6 essence. The cheapest thing in the store is 800 essence. That would mean i'd have to play 8 games, all 20-30 minutes each, just to afford a Bronze pack. Some people don't have the time for that... I don't know.. I'm just thinking.. The current system is comfortable in my opinion though.
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The current essence reward system has a couple odd aspects:

- forfeit during a battle means the winner gets "cheated"
- doesn't encourage different modes of play. If you sneak around and get all 6 portals, that is a brilliant victory -- but you won't get much because you didn't kill the other person

We are considering the following changes:

- essence is based on total summoned units, not killed units (say, nn% of all summoned units -- not sure yet what the right percentage would be)
- essence reward is split based on the different in portals.

For example, let's say you win 6 points to 4. You summoned 100 mana of units, and your opponent summoned 120. Say we're using 80% of all summoned units.

Total summons = 100 + 120 = 220 * 80% = 176 mana

You get 176 * (6 / 10) = 105.6
Opponent gets 176 * (4 / 10) = 70.4

... and then efactor would be applied.

Questions / concerns below.

I read this a while ago, but didn't have much to say on it... Been playing a few games and thinking about how it would affect player mindsets in terms of winning with the system compared to how it currently is.

I am inclined to think that all mentioned points would be beneficial (at least in theory).
It would also be a nice reward for players who continue to play the game while an opponent is AFK, or if a large force is built up leading to a forfeit by the less-prepared player or some such... In both situations where currently the winning player would have his/her time wasted for little to no essence reward, they are then consequently rewarded for sticking it out and playing the game.

Also, among the higher-leveled players there seems to be a bit of a 'mana-farming' mentality, mostly when it comes to CPU battles, but also occasionally with other players... The proposed reward system would also help eliminate that mindset by offering payout for just playing and winning the game like it is meant to be, not camping, surrounding, and farming an opponent as they build up their forces. (This has rarely happened to me lately on either the giving or receiving end, but nonetheless.)

So yes, I think this is a very good and quite elegant solution. I don't really have anything to add to it, sounds perfect to me. x3

The only objection I could say I have is that that approximately 50-100 mana sounds awfully low on a per-match basis. Perhaps I misunderstood, but would it have a further multiplier on top of that or would that be it?

Either way, the basis of the idea sounds sound and I like it. Please, PLEASE do it. xD
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I'd really to see HONORABLE fighting being rewarded.
We should be compensated if our opponent forefeits on us. The REAL losers are the ones who forefeit because they're not getting their way, not the ones who fight to the end and accept defeat honorably.
On the other hand, a player who is winning should not toy with their opponent purely for the sake of getting more essence through kills which aren't necessary for victory.

Essentially:
Reward the honorable, whether they win or lose.
DON'T reward bad losers OR bad winners.

Finally: I would rather that proper fighting be rewarded more than sneaky portal grabbing, but I don't frown upon the latter nearly as much as upon forefeiters.
CelesaAkitaka's avatar

Codebreaking Genius

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xXShadowsEdgeXx

Not sure if we can quote or not, but question.
Wouldn't that mean you also have to lower the cost of the store units and packs slightly, to make it not seem as far out of reach. Like with the example you gave, you get 105.6 essence. The cheapest thing in the store is 800 essence. That would mean i'd have to play 8 games, all 20-30 minutes each, just to afford a Bronze pack. Some people don't have the time for that... I don't know.. I'm just thinking.. The current system is comfortable in my opinion though.


Pack prices are adjusted by what what the earnings are over an hour. The current system allows for too much farming and so those people make pack prices higher.
Tayloryn's avatar

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The current essence reward system has a couple odd aspects:

- forfeit during a battle means the winner gets "cheated"
- doesn't encourage different modes of play. If you sneak around and get all 6 portals, that is a brilliant victory -- but you won't get much because you didn't kill the other person

We are considering the following changes:

- essence is based on total summoned units, not killed units (say, nn% of all summoned units -- not sure yet what the right percentage would be)
- essence reward is split based on the different in portals.

For example, let's say you win 6 points to 4. You summoned 100 mana of units, and your opponent summoned 120. Say we're using 80% of all summoned units.

Total summons = 100 + 120 = 220 * 80% = 176 mana

You get 176 * (6 / 10) = 105.6
Opponent gets 176 * (4 / 10) = 70.4

... and then efactor would be applied.

Questions / concerns below.


I'm gonns throw out some suggestions based on my concerns.

Well, I agree the whole forfeit problem is big, but I'm mostly concerned that what you propose would unbalance the game in a different direction. Right now people focus on killing all the monsters, and it it was based on summoned monsters, that's basically the same thing: It just doesn't take into account whether or not you beat them, which sounds detrimental.

Perhaps a "turn based" approach towards winning balanced with the summoned/destroyed monsters.

Here's where my suggestions begin!!

Basically if you won quickly by getting the portals, the portals you get count for a (value)*(bonus multiplier) based on turns taken. the less the better.

As you continue further, the bonus for battles would increase at the same ratio that the portal bonus decreases, ultimately reaching the opposite end where the final battle would count for a lot, but not super-crazy-that's-all-they'll-do a lot.

All this math bonus stuff would have to be applied at the end, because whoever WON would need to WIN, you know?

You may have the portal points accumulate as they're held, and/or give a bonus for taking one-- maybe a small penalty to match to curve people "trading" back and forth for points.

You would get so many points for remaining monsters, and maybe a bonus for taking extra portals.

And there you could throw in a definite amount of points that you get for having survived so may turns (however many), the number of monsters summoned,


I like the idea of getting points for summoned units, but it shouldn't be the only thing. Maybe also the number of spaces or something.

...or something.



I don't know... just the ramblings of the sleep deprived!!
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{ Brilliant idea! I think I'll go with it. emotion_awesome }


emotion_bigheart
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why not have two different forms of PVP? One based on the portal rewarding system (called Portal Hunter or something) and then one called Last Stand, where you and your opponent each start with X amount of portals and X mana to summon armies, then have it so you get the same amount of mana the second turn to summon the next troops. After that the mana awarded is based off of the amount of troops left over total cost of mana for current on field troops and with the normal additives of mana wells and fields controlled. its a base idea but my friends and i usually use the last battle fighting for earning essence, it may take up to 20 minutes, but we only have the one battle then we each earn around 1-2k essence pending on who the winner is
I think that finding a good balance of summoned units giving essence and killing the enemy army would be the best, i like games were both players walk away with at least something.
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Just quickly skimming through it, the new proposed system doesn't sound overly bad. From what i can see, anyways.

It makes things a lot more even.


The more I read over this and read through the comments, the less and less I like this. Mainly for the reasons RK said on page 4.

It would make things more even, but it is rewarding the completely wrong things. It isn't rewarding winning, it is rewarding drawing the game out and summoning as much as you can. While fair, it should be rewarding winning more than just drawing the game out.


If we play a PvP HoC and I forfeit on turn one, it is only because I refuse to play against someone who has forfeited against me more than twice mid game. This is the only reason I will ever forfeit.



I compleatly agree with you. Drawing the game out wouldn't be as fun either and I like getting essence for winning.
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I don't know if this was brought up or not, but why not just add this to the current system? This would require more balancing, but to have part of the reward come from units killed and the other part come from units made. This is disregarding multipliers and winning bonuses.
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I don't know if this was brought up or not, but why not just add this to the current system? This would require more balancing, but to have part of the reward come from units killed and the other part come from units made. This is disregarding multipliers and winning bonuses.
This makes sense. Then you add the bonuses in as well.
And Trap Lovers, I'd say we should find ways to encourage playing by the rules and discourage gaming the system, but let's leave the concepts of honor and dishonor out of it, as that starts to overlap with morality and "Alignment" which is rather personal. . .
i love this idea and can't wait until it's implemented. how many times did you not go straight to killing and summoned creatures and took portals for the win?

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