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Omnipresent Cultist

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gataka
Cyrus Lurch
When you're looking at, say, 500 cards (pretty sure that's lowballing the current release).
About ~30 per faction right now, so ~100 total estimate.
I'll do a proper count out of curiosity.
I'd be interested in knowing. 100 is a TINY initial release.

Familiar Lunatic

Cyrus Lurch
gataka
Cyrus Lurch
When you're looking at, say, 500 cards (pretty sure that's lowballing the current release).
About ~30 per faction right now, so ~100 total estimate.
I'll do a proper count out of curiosity.
I'd be interested in knowing. 100 is a TINY initial release.
lol, it's less: ~85 xD

edit: ok, 82 is my final count. Also, their current plans is to introduce cards monthly. No set schedule or amount AFAIK, only that they wouldn't release new cards unless they had at least a handful. Oh, and two new factions on the drawing boards but that's mid-long term-ish stuff.

Newbie Warlord

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Cyrus Lurch
Ze3k

Not sure what you mean by moving parts? o3o
Using zOMG as a starting point: One person has up to 40 rings (edit: yes, I'm discounting the post release unbound rings - none of those created new abilities, they're all just modifiers), 8 of which can be "in play" at a given time. Solo, you only ever have to consider combinations of those eight rings. Even in crews, you still only have to contemplate numerical buffs and debuffs and their effect on the character, and that's still within the 40 rings - IIRC zOMG enemies don't have any debuffs that don't have an equivalent buff (rooting/duct tape, fear/cat, etc.). You're still looking at a tightly limited range of possible events you're going to have to account for, and it's a stable structure. Any given situation, you know for a fact that you're at most dealing with eight of forty possible actions for any given character, and you know that they're not going to be changing frequently. That set of "abilities" forms the bedrock foundation everything else is built for and to.

CCGs, the cards *are* that bedrock. And there are a lot of them. I don't recall seeing a list of how many cards are in release at the moment, but I'm certain it's more than 40. Every card has the potential to break the game - synergy is a nasty, nasty beast and the Law of Unintended Consequences gets a heavy workout in CCGs. When you're looking at, say, 500 cards (pretty sure that's lowballing the current release), those 500 cards can be used in any combination between minimum and maximum deck size and every single one has that potential to be the game breaker - be it giving one unit an impossible to breach defense, an unstoppable OHK, an edge in combat/exploration that can't be countered etc.

Example from a long-dead CCG. Full set of cards available, but three cards pulled from disparate sets that weren't intended (but not prohibited) for working together created a one-turn victory. If the player with that three-card deck went first, they won. I don't remember which game that was, but I know a slightly larger deck also worked for Illuminatus, etc. - it's why the banned card lists exist, and why any game without a huge testing apparatus *MtGCOUGHCOUGH* tends to wind up with a banned list that closely resembles the LA Metro phone book in size.

It gets worse with expansions, where you have to deal with both making the expansion internally consistent so that people who focus on the new toys aren't suddenly hosed as well as making it work with what previously exists in the game. If you don't, you're locked into a horrible trail of endlessly releasing broken cards that are banned or "fixed" in the next set by an even MORE broken card.

CCGs may *look* simple on the surface. But compared to MMOs? The workload's reversed. zOMG cost what it did because of the artwork and the architecture they created. Once that was done, a MUCH smaller team could have been retained to push out gradual expansions (pretty sure this was actually the business plan pre-Qix departure). CCGs can be created and tested over a prolonged period leading up to release by a VERY small team, but once you're going live - and even moreso once you're expanding - the requirements for staffing just increase.
You're probably mostly right although I would argue that MMO updates are pretty intensive too usualy. New skills, new enemies with new mechanics, etc..Cards are often just combinations of old stuff. ;o zOMG is kinda bad example since they sorta just dropped it. xd

This game will probly fail harder and faster than zomg ever could if it's not updated though me thinks since we're not even paying for consumeables. xp

I am interested to see what happens. -pulls out the popcorn and watches-

clarion's King

Super Model

Ze3k
I am interested to see what happens. -pulls out the popcorn and watches-

E-popcorn usually signifies hell breaking loose twisted
Some people just want to watch HoC burn emotion_donotwant

Omnipresent Cultist

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Magus
Ze3k
I am interested to see what happens. -pulls out the popcorn and watches-

E-popcorn usually signifies hell breaking loose twisted
Some people just want to watch HoC burn emotion_donotwant
I'll be honest - I'm about half and half.

I'd *like* HoC to succeed. But the reasons they gave for dropping zOMG are even more present in Hoc (what, they're going to put sponsor ads on the cards? "Heralds, brought to you by 'I Cant Believe It's Not Butter"?) and the expansion difficulty is MUCH higher than expanding an MMO.

I've said it before, so what the hell. Gaia's got a perfect track record on supporting projects once they require sustained effort post release. Well, perfectly *consistent*.

Omnipresent Cultist

11,250 Points
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gataka
Cyrus Lurch
gataka
Cyrus Lurch
When you're looking at, say, 500 cards (pretty sure that's lowballing the current release).
About ~30 per faction right now, so ~100 total estimate.
I'll do a proper count out of curiosity.
I'd be interested in knowing. 100 is a TINY initial release.
lol, it's less: ~85 xD

edit: ok, 82 is my final count. Also, their current plans is to introduce cards monthly. No set schedule or amount AFAIK, only that they wouldn't release new cards unless they had at least a handful. Oh, and two new factions on the drawing boards but that's mid-long term-ish stuff.
Wow.

I also overestimated initial release sizes in "real" CCGs. Looked up industry standards from when CCGs ruled the earth, normally in the 100-300 range. 100 for micros not backed by any real company/money (exceptions do exist, of course), 300ish for the ones pushed out by companies that have the backing.

Benevolent Lunatic

Chef gregory
i have two things two say about HOC :

1st: they need to change the lobby

people dont play pvp cause they are afraid of fighting someone a lot stronger then them.

people should be able to host their own games and choose who they wanna face.

2nd : im just afraid that gaia makes a bunch of OP cards that everyone will use. it will ruin the game


For hosting your own game just add some friends to play with that way you can choose.

Savage Tactician

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HAHA

Better than zOMG is!

AHAHAHAHA

I crack myself up. crying
berry-sweet-promise
Chef gregory
i have two things two say about HOC :

1st: they need to change the lobby

people dont play pvp cause they are afraid of fighting someone a lot stronger then them.

people should be able to host their own games and choose who they wanna face.

2nd : im just afraid that gaia makes a bunch of OP cards that everyone will use. it will ruin the game


For hosting your own game just add some friends to play with that way you can choose.


i dont have a lot of friends on gaia xD mos tof them are just random people who added me through ZOMG

Benevolent Lunatic

Chef gregory
berry-sweet-promise
Chef gregory
i have two things two say about HOC :

1st: they need to change the lobby

people dont play pvp cause they are afraid of fighting someone a lot stronger then them.

people should be able to host their own games and choose who they wanna face.

2nd : im just afraid that gaia makes a bunch of OP cards that everyone will use. it will ruin the game


For hosting your own game just add some friends to play with that way you can choose.


i dont have a lot of friends on gaia xD mos tof them are just random people who added me through ZOMG

try and make some then? there are some friendly people here in the forum. You could add me if you want to.
haha i dont have problem making them. i make friends, talk and chill with them for a day or two and then its like on the another person xD so i dont have any permanent friend on gaia to chill with basicly
but i don't really care razz

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