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Shameless Hoarder

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As a new property for Gaia?

The Forum seems to be fairly active, which would indicate that a fair number of people are playing, but I've noticed that far more often than not, when I'm in the Lobby about to play, there's nobody in the Queue waiting for a PvP match, and that would seem to imply that there's not as many people playing after all.

How do you think HoC is doing for Gaia at the moment?
Is it drawing enough Players, and with them, cash, to justify the effort and expense Gaia has put into it so far?

Do you think that the low number of people waiting for a PvP match is indicative of low usership or might it be a result of some other factor?

If it is indicative of low usership, to what would you attribute that and how would you go about increasing usership?

Anything I could suggest at the moment would be pure speculation, but even with no solid numbers, I can see some issues with the game that might negatively impact people's enthusiasm for it as it stands, but perhaps it's just because the it hasn't been fully opened to everyone on the site yet.

Witty Gaian

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Many people play exclusively against the CPU. I almost always do. I venture into pvp very rarely. Also, nobody in the queue could mean that everyone is matched up. If you see someone just sitting there for a long time, then nobody is playing against them and they're just waiting for someone.

Bobannan's Wife

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I wouldn't say that there is necessarily a low number of people playing. At any one time I could probably get a random pvp match within 5 minutes max (often under 2). There isn't many people in the queue because as soon as 2 people are in it they go in game. Add in the people who only play solo and you probably have a fair number of people playing the game 3nodding

Familiar Lunatic

WideEyed

Do you think that the low number of people waiting for a PvP match is indicative of low usership or might it be a result of some other factor?
More like tiers + people being scared of it.

Ever since strange people came out of the woodwork to complain about their NPC farming being nerfed when they lowered the E to G rate, I've believed most of the people are hiding in there xD

Pure conjecture.

Omnipresent Cultist

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The activity level on this forum isn't a healthy gauge of the game. The zOMG forum gets as much activity, and well...

HoC itself? It's *MUCH* more playable than it was a few weeks ago. However, the seams are already starting to show - cards frequently nerfed after release, abuse of the PvP feature with essence farming etc. and the attitudes that creates, etc.

It's the nerfing that worries me the most. How long is Gaia going to be satisfied leaving active developer resources on this game? They haven't been willing to do that with ANY other project. At what point will broken cards be released and just left broken? How long can HoC last at that point? I was EXTREMELY concerned that they weren't going to be able to test the new releases enough as they came out, and the retroactive nerfs are not a good sign at all. Your Beta should NOT be your Alpha for new cards, period.

Simultaneously more optimistic about the game itself and more pessimistic about it's future?

Newbie Warlord

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Cyrus Lurch
The activity level on this forum isn't a healthy gauge of the game. The zOMG forumo gets as much activity, and well...

HoC itself? It's *MUCH* more playable than it was amew weeks ago. However, the seams are already starting to show - cards frequently nerfed after release, abuse of the PvP feature with essence farming etc. and the attitudes that creates, etc.

It's the nerfing that worries me the most. How long is Gaia going to be satisfied leaving active developer resources on this game? They haven't been willing to do that with ANY other project. At what point will broken cards be released and just left broken? How long can HoC last at that point? I was EXTREMELY concerned that they weren't going to be able to test the new releases enough as they came out, and the retroactive nerfs are not a good sign at all. Your Beta should NOT be your Alpha for new cards, period.

Simultaneously more optimistic about the game itself and more pessimistic about it's future?
Mmm they still haven't invited everyone, so activity level in the forum has a lot of lurking variables. Also, just guessing this game costs farrrrr less to make/maintain than zomg. ^^

As for the needing, when has any card game ever got the balancing right 1st gen? xd That's why other offline TCGs have banned/restricted lists (basically retroactive nerfs).

My biggest concern is the fact that it appears to be a lot of work to add new cards. You can tell cause of how often they don't even have basic keyword abilities that are printed on the card, and like mass smite had to be fixed gradually on each card with it.. like MoF still doesn't have defender. xd Maybe it's just a lot of typos though.

Omnipresent Cultist

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Ze3k
Mmm they still haven't invited everyone, so activity level in the forum has a lot of lurking variables. Also, just guessing this game costs farrrrr less to make/maintain than zomg. ^^

As for the needing, when has any card game ever got the balancing right 1st gen? xd That's why other offline TCGs have banned/restricted lists (basically retroactive nerfs).

My biggest concern is the fact that it appears to be a lot of work to add new cards. You can tell cause of how often they don't even have basic keyword abilities that are printed on the card, and like mass smite had to be fixed gradually on each card with it.. like MoF still doesn't have defender. xd Maybe it's just a lot of typos though.
I'd guess the opposite on costs. You're more or less stating why - there are a LOT more moving parts in a CCG, and you can't corral and guide the players the way you can an MMO. If an expansion turns out bugged in WoW, they shut off the gates to it for a few days, send apologies, and in a few months it's laughed at. CCGs have a harder time containing the contagion. And nearly every single card can - and with enough players eventually will - be tested against that contagion with a result of all new broken combos and unbeatable cards.

Right now? They're as on top of it as they can be. But as you note, there's already issues poking out. And Gaia's track record towards post-release support right now is perfect. 100% abandoned.
i have two things two say about HOC :

1st: they need to change the lobby

people dont play pvp cause they are afraid of fighting someone a lot stronger then them.

people should be able to host their own games and choose who they wanna face.

2nd : im just afraid that gaia makes a bunch of OP cards that everyone will use. it will ruin the game

Newbie Warlord

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Cyrus Lurch
Ze3k
Mmm they still haven't invited everyone, so activity level in the forum has a lot of lurking variables. Also, just guessing this game costs farrrrr less to make/maintain than zomg. ^^

As for the needing, when has any card game ever got the balancing right 1st gen? xd That's why other offline TCGs have banned/restricted lists (basically retroactive nerfs).

My biggest concern is the fact that it appears to be a lot of work to add new cards. You can tell cause of how often they don't even have basic keyword abilities that are printed on the card, and like mass smite had to be fixed gradually on each card with it.. like MoF still doesn't have defender. xd Maybe it's just a lot of typos though.
I'd guess the opposite on costs. You're more or less stating why - there are a LOT more moving parts in a CCG, and you can't corral and guide the players the way you can an MMO. If an expansion turns out bugged in WoW, they shut off the gates to it for a few days, send apologies, and in a few months it's laughed at. CCGs have a harder time containing the contagion. And nearly every single card can - and with enough players eventually will - be tested against that contagion with a result of all new broken combos and unbeatable cards.

Right now? They're as on top of it as they can be. But as you note, there's already issues poking out. And Gaia's track record towards post-release support right now is perfect. 100% abandoned.
I'm 99% sure that HoC is like a fraction of the cost of zomg.. I don't remember numbers clearly, but I know zomg had a pretty large team and costed a few mills to make.

This game has like what? 2 1/2 people I think Pan said?

Not sure what you mean by moving parts? o3o

clarion's King

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Ze3k
Not sure what you mean by moving parts? o3o

edit: nvm lol

Omnipresent Cultist

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Ze3k

Not sure what you mean by moving parts? o3o
Using zOMG as a starting point: One person has up to 40 rings (edit: yes, I'm discounting the post release unbound rings - none of those created new abilities, they're all just modifiers), 8 of which can be "in play" at a given time. Solo, you only ever have to consider combinations of those eight rings. Even in crews, you still only have to contemplate numerical buffs and debuffs and their effect on the character, and that's still within the 40 rings - IIRC zOMG enemies don't have any debuffs that don't have an equivalent buff (rooting/duct tape, fear/cat, etc.). You're still looking at a tightly limited range of possible events you're going to have to account for, and it's a stable structure. Any given situation, you know for a fact that you're at most dealing with eight of forty possible actions for any given character, and you know that they're not going to be changing frequently. That set of "abilities" forms the bedrock foundation everything else is built for and to.

CCGs, the cards *are* that bedrock. And there are a lot of them. I don't recall seeing a list of how many cards are in release at the moment, but I'm certain it's more than 40. Every card has the potential to break the game - synergy is a nasty, nasty beast and the Law of Unintended Consequences gets a heavy workout in CCGs. When you're looking at, say, 500 cards (pretty sure that's lowballing the current release), those 500 cards can be used in any combination between minimum and maximum deck size and every single one has that potential to be the game breaker - be it giving one unit an impossible to breach defense, an unstoppable OHK, an edge in combat/exploration that can't be countered etc.

Example from a long-dead CCG. Full set of cards available, but three cards pulled from disparate sets that weren't intended (but not prohibited) for working together created a one-turn victory. If the player with that three-card deck went first, they won. I don't remember which game that was, but I know a slightly larger deck also worked for Illuminatus, etc. - it's why the banned card lists exist, and why any game without a huge testing apparatus *MtGCOUGHCOUGH* tends to wind up with a banned list that closely resembles the LA Metro phone book in size.

It gets worse with expansions, where you have to deal with both making the expansion internally consistent so that people who focus on the new toys aren't suddenly hosed as well as making it work with what previously exists in the game. If you don't, you're locked into a horrible trail of endlessly releasing broken cards that are banned or "fixed" in the next set by an even MORE broken card.

CCGs may *look* simple on the surface. But compared to MMOs? The workload's reversed. zOMG cost what it did because of the artwork and the architecture they created. Once that was done, a MUCH smaller team could have been retained to push out gradual expansions (pretty sure this was actually the business plan pre-Qix departure). CCGs can be created and tested over a prolonged period leading up to release by a VERY small team, but once you're going live - and even moreso once you're expanding - the requirements for staffing just increase.

Malevolent Phantom

I'd say this is one of the most active forums on the site. Competing with probably Chatterbox, zOMG, Barton Town (on weekends), and maybe the General Discussion. As far as the limited number of people in the lobby I'd say it's from people like me, haha. I'd say almost 95% of my matches are against the CPUs. I just get nervous going into PvP for whatever reason.

Plus there are still a huge amount of users that aren't allowed into HoC yet. I checked several of my old/secondary accounts just for fun and they're all still locked out. For the time being though I'd say the game is doing fine. They're fixing things as they need fixing and keeping users updated.

Familiar Lunatic

Ze3k
I'm 99% sure that HoC is like a fraction of the cost of zomg.. I don't remember numbers clearly, but I know zomg had a pretty large team and costed a few mills to make.

This game has like what? 2 1/2 people I think Pan said?

dedicated to this, currently/last we heard.
zOMG! had ~15 at it's best, if I remember right.
Number changes depending on how/when you count it, like zOMG! outsourced to a bunch of places xD

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It has its problems, and truthfully most are bound to be fixed.

Familiar Lunatic

Cyrus Lurch
When you're looking at, say, 500 cards (pretty sure that's lowballing the current release).
About ~30 per faction right now, so ~100 total estimate.
I'll do a proper count out of curiosity.

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