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Dark Lord Drake
Chocolatease
Dark Lord Drake
Chocolatease
Dark Lord Drake
Chocolatease


I wouldnt see happiness in that thing,and it wouldnt be happy with that,
i wouldnt be nice to it,so yes its better than not having a life at all,and
if i put it up for adoption half the people that go up for adoption never get
adopted.

Im a unfit mother so a abortion is a good choice.


Oh, so now you deliberately misunderstand me and start talking about your own happiness. How very merciful to kill for your own happiness.

Yeah and I'm sure you asked all those who weren't adopted if they'd rather not be alive. Or maybe you don't care what they think and prefer to only insert your own notion into it.


A baby that hasnt lived without me and my support is more imporant than me?


More important? It's more important than what you think about the child.

i said that wrong i meant
A baby that hasnt lived at all without me is more valuable than me?


More valuable? How am I making anything more valuable? And I'm going to log soon, but will be back.



Give me reasons why i should not get a abortion with all the context i have gave you.
Chocolatease
Dark Lord Drake
Chocolatease
Dark Lord Drake
Chocolatease


A baby that hasnt lived without me and my support is more imporant than me?


More important? It's more important than what you think about the child.

i said that wrong i meant
A baby that hasnt lived at all without me is more valuable than me?


More valuable? How am I making anything more valuable? And I'm going to log soon, but will be back.



Give me reasons why i should not get a abortion with all the context i have gave you.


Not until you answer my questions first stare

Edit: And I'd like to point out you were never clear enough about the kidney disease for me to make a judgment on it.
Tuatha De's avatar

Dapper Ladykiller

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Allow me to present a mildly clearer scenario, then:

Let's say that a baby was diagnosed prenatally with... hrmm... the fatal form of trisomy 13 or similar. Or a malformed neural tube. Something that surgery would not be able to fix. The doctors know that the child simply will not live. Would those few weeks, or days, or hours of life be worth the risk of carrying to term? What about if it was a defect that would cause the infant to suffer considerably before dying? Where do you draw the line, if you draw it at all?

Mostly just curious.
Tuatha De
Allow me to present a mildly clearer scenario, then:

Let's say that a baby was diagnosed prenatally with... hrmm... the fatal form of trisomy 13 or similar. Or a malformed neural tube. Something that surgery would not be able to fix. The doctors know that the child simply will not live. Would those few weeks, or days, or hours of life be worth the risk of carrying to term? What about if it was a defect that would cause the infant to suffer considerably before dying? Where do you draw the line, if you draw it at all?

Mostly just curious.

The human body is a remarkable thing, it can survive things we even declare as unsurvivable. It may very well survive and still grow up to be a happy and rather healthy person. There are people that have survived with their hearts outside of their rib cage, granted any rough hits will kill, they live a rather happy life still. I know I've personally gone a day with a broken bone that if I was older would need pins and a rod to have it heal with out any pain and only muscle weakness. As well as tearing a muscle in my caff and still able to have the muscle preform at its best still despite how swollen it was and all the damage in my caff, also partially from the contusion I got in my caff with the tore muscle due to the blunt forces that kept hitting my leg to cause the tear. When normally those with a otrn muscle suffer from a good amount of muscle weakness as well as other things.

So really, your argument is valid but the thing is you may never know. Also, how do you know the abortion won't hurt the child still? I'm pretty sure it will seeing as how it is living and depending the stage may have its neural system developed. If that is the case, why not give it a chance at life?

Just something to think about is all ^^
abortions are right
Chocolate Ex-lax's avatar

Fluffy Wench

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~*~User Image~*~
Lulz.
So tell me, people, since you clearly all own my uterus for me.
Is it okay if I use a tampon?
Do I need your permission to have monthly periods or choose to skip them with my handy dandy pills?
Or does my uterus only become public property the moment I conceive?


Why is my life less valuable than a sac of cells?
Is it just because I no longer have potential since I'm already alive?


Do you people know what foster care is?
An orphanage?
If there was always someone willing to adopt every unwanted child, you would never hear of these things.
Did you know 1/4 of foster care kids grow up in the system and become homeless at age 18?

~*~ We're all mad here. I'm mad; you're mad.~*~
l_N a r a_l
760_latinalover_209

Technically yes it is killing, Because from the moment the fetus enters the womb, its contributing oxygen, blood, nutrition among other things. Is that not what a baby gets? is that not what you or me get???? And... One way or another, There are plenty of options besides abortion. Its true, A teenager who gets more that 3 abortions, is an idiot. And if Anybody here has had abortions, You ARE an IDIOT! there are so many people who want children and can't have them. Adoption is an alternative to help those people. Yes there are many children in the orphanage as it is, But couples wanting kids to adopt is almost triple that amount. If you have the right to live and had the right to be grown in your mothers womb, why shouldn't anybody else?
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Holy ******** s**t.

There are 3 times the amount of people wanting to adopt than there are kids? Please, please get outside, read a book, something.. anything. If that was the case then why are there so many kids in foster care, in orphanages? Why are they there? If there were such a high demand for babies, then neither of those things would exist.


As for the rest of the thread. Whether or not a baby is alive or worth giving a chance is a pointless debate. The only person that can make that decision is the woman herself.

I'm currently 8 months pregnant and as soon as I find out I am pregnant, it's my baby. I don't shop for a zygote/embryo/fetus; I shop for my baby. I pick names, worry about her, count her movements and whatnot because she is MY baby and I want her.

If a mother doesn't feel that way, then that's all there is to it. You can't make a woman change how she views the being inside her, that's up to her to do. Funnily enough, it's not easy to change a woman's mind. Despite what Juno might imply.

Have you ever heard of "Non Qualified". Read a book as you say and figure it out.

And FYI, I'm a mother of a 1 year old. and I'm 17. Trust me I know what its like to have the option of abortion or adoption. And your right, the decision to keep a baby alive or abort it is up to the mother, but the whole point of this is to make sure that people really know what they are doing. This is an attempt to have people open their eyes and think about it more that once. I was going to abort my son when I found out I was pregnant at 15. It broke my heart. I did my research, and couldn't do it. and for those who say that rape victims should have the right to abort, thats not really considered to have a right. Its a choice. And I was a rape victim. It doesn't necessarily mean I need to kill my baby.
Tamarahma
760_latinalover_209
Technically yes it is killing, Because from the moment the fetus enters the womb, its contributing oxygen, blood, nutrition among other things. Is that not what a baby gets? is that not what you or me get????


You're confused. At no point in the pregnancy does the foetus contribute to the health or wellbeing of the mother. As has been said in this thread, it essentially acts as a parasite. It feeds from the body of the mother. A foetus never enters the womb, it grows there from a fertilised ovum. You're honestly confused about basic biology, and you need to accept that there is a difference in opinion as to at what point 'life' as we would know it begins, as there is no widely accepted scientific truth.

Quote:
And... One way or another, There are plenty of options besides abortion.


Of course there are options beside abortion! There's the forced miscarriage - what could be more fun than throwing yourself down a flight of stairs to try and end an unwanted pregnancy? There's the DIY job, in which you can stick a wire coathanger up in your v****a to literally try and scrape the cells out, never mind any internal haemorrhaging and bleeding you may get as a result. There are natural options, in which you overdose on untested and unproven herbal remedies to try and purge the foetus out! And then there's the do-all, end-all in which you, stuck with a pregnancy you do not want and no way to safely get rid of it, take your own life.

All in all, I'd rather have a legal abortion, thanks.

Quote:
Its true, A teenager who gets more that 3 abortions, is an idiot. And if Anybody here has had abortions, You ARE an IDIOT!


I wasn't aware you were legally required to impose your moral standards on everyone else. I didn't know any judgement you made was the final word on the subject. You should have said that your ignorant, uninformed and hurtful comments were actually sacred truth! Then you wouldn't get ripped apart for judging a complex situation on one tiny fraction of it, and forcing your moral standards onto those who don't need them and don't want them.

Quote:
there are so many people who want children and can't have them. Adoption is an alternative to help those people. Yes there are many children in the orphanage as it is, But couples wanting kids to adopt is almost triple that amount.


Citation for the bolded, please. Oddly enough, adoption normally isn't the first choice for those who can't conceive naturally. For some reason, when trying to conceive their own child, most frustrated couples use IVF, surrogate wombs or if they need to, donor sperm and eggs. Adoption is a last choice. There's a lot of stigma against it in society. Orphanages and the care system are suffocating under children who guess what, nobody is adopting and nobody cares about.

Quote:
If you have the right to live and had the right to be grown in your mothers womb, why shouldn't anybody else?


I have the privilege to be alive, and the privilege to be born into a family in which I was a planned pregnancy, my mother and father both wanted me and could financially support me. I have the privilege of having developed in the womb of a healthy woman who had access to adequate nutrition and foodstuffs to help me grow healthily. My life is precious. Everyone else's are as well. This is why I focus on helping those who are actually living, rather than ignoring existing suffering to blather on about the importance of something which can only suffer in potentiality.

You're confusing a right and privilege. I have the right to make decisions about my own body. A foetus doesn't have the right or the authority to challenge me for that.

I'm pretty sure I would know about pregnancy, I myself have been pregnant. and i've been pretty informed. So make sure you know your information before you go and act like a know-it-all.
Quote:
I wasn't aware you were legally required to impose your moral standards on everyone else. I didn't know any judgement you made was the final word on the subject. You should have said that your ignorant, uninformed and hurtful comments were actually sacred truth! Then you wouldn't get ripped apart for judging a complex situation on one tiny fraction of it, and forcing your moral standards onto those who don't need them and don't want them.

As far as I know, I am allowed to show my thoughts with others. This is a forum based on ideas and opinions. No, I'm not saying my words are the final situation, but like I said, I am able to express my feelings toward others.

I'm not stupid. I know that adoption is not everybody's choice, but put yourself in a room full of people who can't conceive. Final choices are adoption. Yeah, people are most typically in a better financial situation or steady homes and I agree. I wouldn't have been able to do it on my own emotionally or financially if it weren't for my parents. Maybe the mother does really want to abort. And yes it is the mother's choice. I just want more people to open their eyes to HELPFUL options so they don't regret anything later.
Tuatha De
760_latinalover_209
And if Anybody here has had abortions, You ARE an IDIOT!


Go on, then. Insult more rape victims who were too traumatized to carry the baby to term as a constant reminder of their tragedy. That'll earn you LOTS of morality points.

Also, I notice no one has responded to my point:

If you believe that every child's life is sacred, how the HELL do you justify using a baby as a form of PUNISHMENT?!

Hello, I am a rape victim. I went through that at 15! 15!!!!!!!! I know what its like to be scared. I'm in all rape victim programs, I go to counseling, I almost committed suicide because of HIM. That sick b*****d who decided to take advantage of someone who was barely beginning their life. I was so perfect. My life was perfect. He destroyed it. I have cried every night since that night. And to make it worse, He only got 180 DAYS for doing what he did to me! and it got cut in half! Do you know how that makes me feel! I have to live with this the rest of my life and he only got what 90 days in jail. you think its easy not to abort a baby and make the decision to keep it. i know its not, but I am trying to help other women who this happens to and have them open their eyes. its not always the way to go. . . Don't make it seem like I am the enemy. I have been through something most people have not! I got pregnant. I am going to high school, I am graduating in a few months, I am going to college and starting my life.
There is help out there for these types of things, its just the willingness to find it and want it.
Tuatha De
Allow me to present a mildly clearer scenario, then:

Let's say that a baby was diagnosed prenatally with... hrmm... the fatal form of trisomy 13 or similar. Or a malformed neural tube. Something that surgery would not be able to fix. The doctors know that the child simply will not live. Would those few weeks, or days, or hours of life be worth the risk of carrying to term? What about if it was a defect that would cause the infant to suffer considerably before dying? Where do you draw the line, if you draw it at all?

Mostly just curious.


If it is not going to live for long then I see little point to making you let it live. It has nothing to gain for the brief and possibly painful life to follow.
Chocolate Ex-lax

So tell me, people, since you clearly all own my uterus for me.
Is it okay if I use a tampon?
Do I need your permission to have monthly periods or choose to skip them with my handy dandy pills?
Or does my uterus only become public property the moment I conceive?


That's such obvious ignorance... I don't need to own it to say what you're allowed to do to another.

Quote:

Why is my life less valuable than a sac of cells?
Is it just because I no longer have potential since I'm already alive?


Less valuable? Demonstrate your life is being given less value.

Quote:

Do you people know what foster care is?
An orphanage?
If there was always someone willing to adopt every unwanted child, you would never hear of these things.
Did you know 1/4 of foster care kids grow up in the system and become homeless at age 18?


You're lacking sources and proof that their lives aren't worth living. No reason to believe you.
Dark Lord Drake
Chocolate Ex-lax

So tell me, people, since you clearly all own my uterus for me.
Is it okay if I use a tampon?
Do I need your permission to have monthly periods or choose to skip them with my handy dandy pills?
Or does my uterus only become public property the moment I conceive?


That's such obvious ignorance... I don't need to own it to say what you're allowed to do to another.

Quote:

Why is my life less valuable than a sac of cells?
Is it just because I no longer have potential since I'm already alive?


Less valuable? Demonstrate your life is being given less value.

Quote:

Do you people know what foster care is?
An orphanage?
If there was always someone willing to adopt every unwanted child, you would never hear of these things.
Did you know 1/4 of foster care kids grow up in the system and become homeless at age 18?


You're lacking sources and proof that their lives aren't worth living. No reason to believe you.


Good Points biggrin
I agree with you
Pro life? Have you adopted? *READ FROM BUMPER STICKER THAT EXPLAINS MY OPINION*
Windfield
Pro life? Have you adopted? *READ FROM BUMPER STICKER THAT EXPLAINS MY OPINION*


What bumper sticker?

Anyways, I'm not in a position to adopt.
Tuatha De's avatar

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760_latinalover_209

Hello, I am a rape victim. I went through that at 15! 15!!!!!!!! I know what its like to be scared. I'm in all rape victim programs, I go to counseling, I almost committed suicide because of HIM. That sick b*****d who decided to take advantage of someone who was barely beginning their life. I was so perfect. My life was perfect. He destroyed it. I have cried every night since that night. And to make it worse, He only got 180 DAYS for doing what he did to me! and it got cut in half! Do you know how that makes me feel! I have to live with this the rest of my life and he only got what 90 days in jail. you think its easy not to abort a baby and make the decision to keep it. i know its not, but I am trying to help other women who this happens to and have them open their eyes. its not always the way to go. . . Don't make it seem like I am the enemy. I have been through something most people have not! I got pregnant. I am going to high school, I am graduating in a few months, I am going to college and starting my life.
There is help out there for these types of things, its just the willingness to find it and want it.


I'm sorry that happened to you. I really am.

But with respect... everyone reacts differently to that kind of traumatic event. For some people, yes, keeping the baby is a perfectly reasonable option. No one is saying that you HAVE to get rid of it! I have NEVER argued in favor of getting an abortion if you don't want one! But for some people... Some people can't deal with it in the same way. For some, they can't break the association between the child and the strong negative feelings they have about what happened to them. Counseling and therapy are available, yes, but again, everyone reacts differently.

The truth is, there is a tremendous amount of social and psychological pressure in favor of keeping a child. Even most abortion clinics will make patients go through some kind of waiting period, make them think about it, reconsider. But for some people, it really is the only option for their mental health.

In regards to whether or not the child would wish to be born... We can't really know that. They can't speak for themselves one way or another. That's why I tend to focus on the emotions of the mother -- it seems wrong to me to make assumptions on behalf of what the fetus would "want," whereas the mother can clearly state her wishes.

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