THIS IS BULL

[E l a p i n e]

It's not right that it only passed by like 3 votes. It should have been by a lot more in order for it to pass, like 2/3 of them. It's not even what the people want anymore. It's just a war between democrats and republicans. GRRRR. THE PEOPLE DON'T FREAKIN WANT THIS CRAP.

I personally do NOT want a socialist country and have everything run by the government.
It makes me sooooooooo mad.

[johnnymaddy1]

but with this form of government will make it so everybody has health care.whats not to like about that...were one of the only country where the people have to pay to be healthy not in tax's but by insurance that most people cant even get.

[Shana OHara]

We are not at all socialistic country. Canada is getting rid of their free health care because it failed. Go talk to a Veteran and find out how long they have to wait to get health care. It's going to be longer for us to get health care.

[Lord Elwrind]

Republicans absolutely refuse to even work with this President on anything. And for a CENTURY, the Republicans have refused to even come up with anything better than what we ended up with - which is filled by Rep's attempts at filibustering after wheeling and dealing behind closed doors. Tennessee gets 0 Medicare coverage but the rest of the US Union does not (because of the dealing with that state's Representative)

This administration has never been at odds this much ever. It makes me believe that half of the Senate and Congress are prejudice against this person who now sits in the Oval Office and why they wont do anything but this crap. I would love to be wrong about that. But... so far there is nothing of what I have seen that makes me think otherwise.

What we need most of all was to get the Insurance Companies to stop dropping people and refusing to support the minute you get sick and stop refusing to offer insurance that is affordable for those with pre-existing conditions - like birth defects. Its what we wanted in the first place!

@ Shana: I heard about that. Also heard it failed in England as well.

[maggoty tacos]

If you don't like it, move!
:D

We can deal with one less whiny person in our country.

[A Soporific]

johnnymaddy1

but with this form of government will make it so everybody has health care.whats not to like about that...were one of the only country where the people have to pay to be healthy not in tax's but by insurance that most people cant even get.

Well, it's expensive for one thing. The government doesn't have an ulimited sum of money, and it might not be a good idea to increase liabilities when tax income has been taking a beating. If the US Federal Government gets it's credit rating downgraded or seeks to devalue the dollar on a regular basis then we can see a fundimental loss of our ability to cope with future financial shocks.

It's not even that insurance is impossible or hard to come by for most people, it's that it's expensive and people decide that other issues are a better use of their money. Granted there are some groups that are mechanically difficult to insure (after all, when someone has a chronic disorder that requires constant care it drains the money out of the insurance system, and becomes the same sort of problem that lead to the collapse of the Credit Default Swap market). The bill doesn't resolve this issue, but rather simply says that people HAVE to buy insurance (which was a horrible idea when McCain suggested it, and is still a horrible idea). Even high school economics should tell you that this will increase prices (after all, what does an upward shift in the demand curve do? Increase price and quantity demanded). People say that this bill will "increase competition", but I can't for the life of me figure out how.

[Lord Elwrind]

A Soporific

johnnymaddy1

but with this form of government will make it so everybody has health care.whats not to like about that...were one of the only country where the people have to pay to be healthy not in tax's but by insurance that most people cant even get.

Well, it's expensive for one thing. The government doesn't have an unlimited sum of money, and it might not be a good idea to increase liabilities when tax income has been taking a beating. If the US Federal Government gets it's credit rating downgraded or seeks to devalue the dollar on a regular basis then we can see a fundamental loss of our ability to cope with future financial shocks.

It's not even that insurance is impossible or hard to come by for most people, it's that it's expensive and people decide that other issues are a better use of their money. Granted there are some groups that are mechanically difficult to insure (after all, when someone has a chronic disorder that requires constant care it drains the money out of the insurance system, and becomes the same sort of problem that lead to the collapse of the Credit Default Swap market). The bill doesn't resolve this issue, but rather simply says that people HAVE to buy insurance (which was a horrible idea when McCain suggested it, and is still a horrible idea). Even high school economics should tell you that this will increase prices (after all, what does an upward shift in the demand curve do? Increase price and quantity demanded). People say that this bill will "increase competition", but I can't for the life of me figure out how.

@ emboldened: there is a question for you. A person does not get insurance, they get fined a little over $2000 per year that they dont have it.

Question 1) If a person cannot afford insurance, how the hell can they afford to pay the fine?
Question 2) Where does that $2,000 go?

This is why I voted against McCain in the Presidential elections. Obama started out great with the exception that they wanted to pin all of Bush's fooboos on him before even inauguration. But Obama's attempts at being a great Pres. fell quickly with all this nonsense coming from the Senate and Congress. They think nobody is paying attention to any of this. Guess what? I am.

Oh, and I cannot figure out how this will increase competition among Insurance Companies either. Unions and the people who have jobs and pay their Union dues already are trying to vy for decent and affordable health care insurance.

[A Soporific]

Lord Elwrind

A Soporific

johnnymaddy1

but with this form of government will make it so everybody has health care.whats not to like about that...were one of the only country where the people have to pay to be healthy not in tax's but by insurance that most people cant even get.

Well, it's expensive for one thing. The government doesn't have an unlimited sum of money, and it might not be a good idea to increase liabilities when tax income has been taking a beating. If the US Federal Government gets it's credit rating downgraded or seeks to devalue the dollar on a regular basis then we can see a fundamental loss of our ability to cope with future financial shocks.

It's not even that insurance is impossible or hard to come by for most people, it's that it's expensive and people decide that other issues are a better use of their money. Granted there are some groups that are mechanically difficult to insure (after all, when someone has a chronic disorder that requires constant care it drains the money out of the insurance system, and becomes the same sort of problem that lead to the collapse of the Credit Default Swap market). The bill doesn't resolve this issue, but rather simply says that people HAVE to buy insurance (which was a horrible idea when McCain suggested it, and is still a horrible idea). Even high school economics should tell you that this will increase prices (after all, what does an upward shift in the demand curve do? Increase price and quantity demanded). People say that this bill will "increase competition", but I can't for the life of me figure out how.

@ emboldened: there is a question for you. A person does not get insurance, they get fined a little over $2000 per year that they dont have it.

Question 1) If a person cannot afford insurance, how the hell can they afford to pay the fine?
Question 2) Where does that $2,000 go?

This is why I voted against McCain in the Presidential elections. Obama started out great with the exception that they wanted to pin all of Bush's fooboos on him before even inauguration. But Obama's attempts at being a great Pres. fell quickly with all this nonsense coming from the Senate and Congress. They think nobody is paying attention to any of this. Guess what? I am.

Oh, and I cannot figure out how this will increase competition among Insurance Companies either. Unions and the people who have jobs and pay their Union dues already are trying to vy for decent and affordable health care insurance.

I suppose I'll end up jailed. As it's $2,000/year that they might end up garnishing wages for, or 5 years in prison. I guess at least then I'll end up with health care provided by the US penal system. If I'm not mistaken they are intending to add the fines collected to the general fund, with no particular plan for it.

Allowing multi-state plans, stepping up enforcement of existing consumer protections, limiting "pain and suffering" awards to a more reasonable $3 million (or so), and cutting down on unnecessary medical care that is provided for no other reason than prevent lawsuits could salvage the situation. But I guess we can make do with what we have now. It's bad, but we've been through worse. America has taken a beating, but we will endure so long as people share a common vision of America as a great nation where wealth and pursuit of happiness isn't just possible but happens. As long as we have that, we'll do just fine no matter what handicaps we saddle ourselves with.

[Euphonious Cantabile]

America is NOT a socialist country. I don't think you know what socialism means at all.

Also, you don't speak for everyone, so don't say "the people don't want this." Even if you think universal health care is pointless, there are still those who are for it.

[E l a p i n e]

America is definately turning into a socialist country. I never said it was. I think as a republican even though I am not of age to vote. the whole idea pisses me off. People that already have good healthcare won't really have it anymore. For example, my dad is in the military and will lose his healthcare privelages because of this new billl. It's shiiiiitttt. And while some people may want it, I believe there are more people that don't. Seeing that is HAS failed in other countries just pretty much means it will fail in America. Especially with the new generations becoming obese. Healthcare won't do crap for them.

[KawaiiKittenCalico]

Shana OHara

We are not at all socialistic country. Canada is getting rid of their free health care because it failed. Go talk to a Veteran and find out how long they have to wait to get health care. It's going to be longer for us to get health care.

Where did you get that information? I've not heard that yet, and I have friends who live in Canada. In fact, I have a friend who has been trying to get me to move to Canada with him so that I can have access to their universal health care system.

[Shana OHara]

KawaiiKittenCalico

Shana OHara

We are not at all socialistic country. Canada is getting rid of their free health care because it failed. Go talk to a Veteran and find out how long they have to wait to get health care. It's going to be longer for us to get health care.

Where did you get that information? I've not heard that yet, and I have friends who live in Canada. In fact, I have a friend who has been trying to get me to move to Canada with him so that I can have access to their universal health care system.

My mother's friend sent her an article about it since she lives in Canada. The friend is happy to hear because they have too many people getting sick off of the 3rd country drugs Canada buys.

You won't get their free health care. You'll have to pay if you move to Canada as well.

[tea and coffee]

It's true. Our goal should be for everyone in this country to have access to medical insurance. But socializing it as they did in Canada and England just lowers the quality of medical care offered. (That's why their bigwigs fly here for treatment when they get sick.) When doctors are overworked they give substandard care. When they don't feel they'd get adequately compensated innovators won't work in the medical field, and medicine will advance at a snail's pace. Now, I'm terrified of getting sick.

[Linear Dodge]

Shana OHara

KawaiiKittenCalico

Shana OHara

We are not at all socialistic country. Canada is getting rid of their free health care because it failed. Go talk to a Veteran and find out how long they have to wait to get health care. It's going to be longer for us to get health care.

Where did you get that information? I've not heard that yet, and I have friends who live in Canada. In fact, I have a friend who has been trying to get me to move to Canada with him so that I can have access to their universal health care system.

My mother's friend sent her an article about it since she lives in Canada. The friend is happy to hear because they have too many people getting sick off of the 3rd country drugs Canada buys.

You won't get their free health care. You'll have to pay if you move to Canada as well.

Uh, I'm Canadian.
3rd country drugs? Like... What?!

Last time I checked, out healthcare system is working as expected, thank you. Unless the government is trying to cover it up and not putting it on the news, our health care system is here to stay.