Snape and Lupin, bad characters?

[Sianserais]

Lupin was a fool, but if letting one's emotions cloud one's judgement is a "horrible character trait," then I hate to think how many real people fall into that category.

And am I forgetting something, or did Snape not know Sirius was innocent at that time? He kind of missed the proof of that, and he had no reason to believe his word. This also could fall under the category of letting emotions cloud one's judgement.

I think we like them because their mistakes prove how human they are. wink

[theythinkimcrazy0-o]

Snape wanted sirius dead because sirius tried to kill him back in school and dumbledore didnt even punish him, instead dumbledore threatened snape not to tell anyone or he would obliviate him. that night in the shack was a bit of de ja vu for snape and he was really on edge

[Lilac Wood]

I never was a fan of Lupin, so I do agree on that point.

I do like Snape however... Not going to try to argue that he was a good person, I just found him enjoyable to read about. And that's completely disregarding the fandom, as I never really got into that.

[zRainDown]

chrysanths

You take the breath right out of me.
You left a hole where my heart should be.

ςɦɾɣʂαɳȶɧʂ
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I hate the fandom. We have a tenancy of ignoring horrible character traits and making these people out to be better than they are.

Snape and Lupin are the best examples.

Snape tried to get a childhood enemy (that he was fully aware was innocent) kissed by a Dementor, and basically sucked up to Fudge for an Order of Merlin.

Lupin: Neglected to talk about hidden Hogwarts passageways and that Snuffles was a dog animagi. If Sirius Black really were a murderer, Harry would have died.

This is just in book three, by the way. Not even going into Snape's refusal to get the Order to go to the Ministry earlier (OotP), or Lupin's abandonment of his wife and unborn son (DH).

Why do we like these characters again? lol
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{Questy!}

You got to fight just to make it through,
'cause I will be the death of you.

Well, to answer your questions.
I like Snape/Lupin because they're realistic.
I'm a huge Snape fan, and I'll tell you why I like him so much.
1. He's mysterious, I personally thought his back story was the most interesting, and deep and I enjoyed reading about his memories.
2. He's not bad at heart, yes he was a super ***** towards Harry, and he was mean to generally all gryffindors, but in the end, he was on Dumbledore's side, and without his participation, I doubt Harry Potter could've won the war the way he did.
Oh, and about what you said about Snape trying to get his childhood enemy put in jail even when he was fully aware that Sirius was innocent, in Snape's childhood, Sirius and James framed Snape, and they played a whole lot of pranks on him, and bullyed him despite the fact that he did nothing to them. And they made fun of him for his house, and his physical appearance, so everything that Snape does towards the gryffindors and Harry, I think is a replica of what he recieved in his childhood. I don't blame him for turning out the way he did.

Also, Lupin is hard working, logical and modest. Which is why I like him so much, and I like the fact that he's not perfect, because it just makes him seem more realistic. Though there are some parts I don't like about him, including his abandonment of Tonks and their child.

[Katzchen Nacht]

I seriously never understood why people love Snape so much. There's nothing really likeable about him in my opinion.

[Askdlfrbfbfvbrbs]

We over look the childish parts in them and look at the character depth that's why.

[Sianserais]

Katzchen Nacht

I seriously never understood why people love Snape so much. There's nothing really likeable about him in my opinion.

He's the only actually ambiguous character in the entire series, which makes him far more interesting than the rest of them.
(Though if you're reading from a writer's perspective, it's pretty obvious which side he has to be on all along, just not why.)

Actually, I have a theory that those of us who know what it's like to be ostracized by one's classmates are far more likely to recognize Snape's bitter attitude early on and sympathize with it, while those who were fortunate enough to get through their childhoods relatively unscathed are more likely to read the books in black-and-white terms and assume Snape is evil.
Not sure how I can test that, though.

[kurokawa-sumire]

Sianserais

Katzchen Nacht

I seriously never understood why people love Snape so much. There's nothing really likeable about him in my opinion.

He's the only actually ambiguous character in the entire series, which makes him far more interesting than the rest of them.
(Though if you're reading from a writer's perspective, it's pretty obvious which side he has to be on all along, just not why.)

Actually, I have a theory that those of us who know what it's like to be ostracized by one's classmates are far more likely to recognize Snape's bitter attitude early on and sympathize with it, while those who were fortunate enough to get through their childhoods relatively unscathed are more likely to read the books in black-and-white terms and assume Snape is evil.
Not sure how I can test that, though.

I like what you said! I don't like Lupin, but I do like Snape's character and depth of character because he is so multi-faceted. It makes me wonder how he turned out so well, for lack of a better word.

[Mrs DaPoint]

chrysanths

You take the breath right out of me.
You left a hole where my heart should be.

ςɦɾɣʂαɳȶɧʂ
I hate the fandom. We have a tenancy of ignoring horrible character traits and making these people out to be better than they are.

Snape and Lupin are the best examples.

Snape tried to get a childhood enemy (that he was fully aware was innocent) kissed by a Dementor, and basically sucked up to Fudge for an Order of Merlin.

Lupin: Neglected to talk about hidden Hogwarts passageways and that Snuffles was a dog animagi. If Sirius Black really were a murderer, Harry would have died.

This is just in book three, by the way. Not even going into Snape's refusal to get the Order to go to the Ministry earlier (OotP), or Lupin's abandonment of his wife and unborn son (DH).

Why do we like these characters again? lol
{Questy!}

You got to fight just to make it through,
'cause I will be the death of you.

I'm not really sure which hidden HOgwarts passageways you are referring to but Lupin doesn't have horrible character traits. He also knew that Sirius wasn't the one that killed Lily and James. The fact that Sirius is an animagi didn't really have anything to do with this. Snape informed Dumbledor as soon as Harry let him know about what he saw happening at the Ministry. Snape also has been trying to make up for his douche-y-ness since Lily and James's deaths which was the night that he went and started playing double agent for Dumbledor. As for abandoning his wife and child will you please remind me of when this happens?

Just saying, these characters have redeeming qualities which is probably why people like them. Also, who doesn't like a bad guy; they are usually some of the most developed characters with good back stories.

[LittleStevieHorseAndPhone]

Newsflash--human beings aren't moral.

Personally, I really like both Snape and Lupin, not because I think they're good people and agree with all their life decisions, but because I find them interesting.

[I SO VERY----- I]

i like lupin anyway... His abandonment sucked but he came around eventually.. I'm not saying he's the best guy in the world--but he was entertaining as a character..

i think he didn't talk about the passageways and snuffles because he trusted Sirius and all that stuff..

[Wanted- Sirius Black]

As a character I like Snape. He is interesting and he always keeps you guessing. As a person he is absolutely deplorable, but hey, nobody was asking me to be his pal.

Remus is both an interesting character (my personal fave) and a very nice person. He has his flaws, I won't deny that. His flaws are mostly borne of insecurity. He didn't reveal the things he should have about Sirius because it would have meant admitting that he had betrayed dumbledore's trust. And that was something that he prized greatly having been trusted by so few people in his life.
As for his leaving Tonks and the unborn Teddy, I always knew it would happen. in the time between books 6 and 7 I discussed this a lot with my friends. He was always going to try to leave because he doesn't feel as thought he has anything real to offer his family and because the idea of hurting them or making them go through what he has gone through is more than he can stand. But in the end I think he would have been a great father and husband had he been given the chance. When you look at the fun-loving, patient, and compassionate way he handled being a teacher there can be no doubt.
And I believe he kept his distance from Harry for much the same reason as he left his family. Along with the fact that he forgot his wolfsbane potion and could have killed Harry in the end of PoA.
I mean, it was very clear that he wanted to be a part of Harry's life and that he was really very fond of him. But in the end I think he always guilted himself out of it.

As for the reason we love Remus, it is because he is a very kind person, he is intelligent, he is a bit cool, he is funny, and, while nobody can make the right choices all the time, he tends to be a solid voice of reason. He is a person that one would gladly spend time with.

[Terra Ellony Meadows]

Ashspoon

For real.
I think I'm the only person in the HP fandom who kinda hates Snape.
emotion_eyebrow

Your not the only one. Lots of folks hate Snape. However, he is not quite so bad. He DOES have his not-so-nice aspects but he is not totally bad. He's just not very nice. And as for earlier stated on this forum, Sirius Black was NOT innocent. He was the who lereason Snape nearly got killed by Lupin... so of course he would not forgive him. However, his eagerness to have S.Black get the Kiss, was a bit harsh. Its like how he was towards Hermione with her teeth, he just has a really dark side. And sadistic at that. But he's mostly good in an evil sort of way.

[Lastrael Rahnawyn]

This forum honestly made me cringe a little. You know, I wasn't too fond of Snape while reading books one through six of the Harry Potter series, movies included. However, when everything came down to the punch, Rowling threw a twist at her readers that none of them seemed to expect. All of the coincidences throughout the novels when Snape ended up in or around the places the Trio were was because he promised Dumbledore he'd keep a keen eye on Lily Potter's son, Harry. Severus put up a front throughout the novels. His persona was a Death Eater, while the man behind the mask was a member of the Order of the Phoenix. This, I would say, is a perfect example of Spiritual Warfare inside one's self. If there is any man in the Harry Potter series that should be greatly disliked, it's Albus Dumbledore. He was raising Harry as a "pig for slaughter" since the beginning. He was keeping him alive so he'd be able to die at the right moment, knowing that should he be wrong about Harry being the eighth horcrux that Voldemort never meant to make, he'd die indefinitely. Severus seemed almost flabbergasted by this in the books as well as the films. I don't think there was a more emotional death in the series than that of Severus Snape, for obvious reasons. As for Lupin, he's one of the Marauders for crying out loud. Why would he be useless? That's like saying the Prisoner of Azkaban shouldn't have been written. When the prequal to the Harry Potter series, 'The Marauders', is finally published, all of your questions about Snape and Lupin will be answered.

[darkwolve17]

snape is awesome and lupin is kinda cheesy cause he only has a few roles