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Just gotta say that I really loved the Cell Block Tango heart
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I think the thing that really bugs me about Rachel is that when she tries to help people, it's either her way or no way. She has to be right, even when people tell her what she's doing isn't okay or isn't helping.
Especially during Grilled Cheesus, when she insisted on "helping" Kurt. He told her and everyone else over and over that he did not believe in god, and he did not want their help if it was on religious grounds, and she did it anyway.
And now again in Choke, when she insisted she was helping him by playing it safe. She didn't seem to even listen to him when he was explaining why he wanted to do NTBND; she just kept nagging him until he finally gave in.
Maybe it's just my issue with people who don't learn from their mistakes, idk.
Koneko Kanashimi
I think the thing that really bugs me about Rachel is that when she tries to help people, it's either her way or no way. She has to be right, even when people tell her what she's doing isn't okay or isn't helping.
Especially during Grilled Cheesus, when she insisted on "helping" Kurt. He told her and everyone else over and over that he did not believe in god, and he did not want their help if it was on religious grounds, and she did it anyway.
And now again in Choke, when she insisted she was helping him by playing it safe. She didn't seem to even listen to him when he was explaining why he wanted to do NTBND; she just kept nagging him until he finally gave in.
Maybe it's just my issue with people who don't learn from their mistakes, idk.


This is one of the main reasons I hate Rachel. I was trying to pinpoint it, and you hit the nail on the head.
Princess Akako
Just gotta say that I really loved the Cell Block Tango heart


And that Tina got two whole solos. FINALLY. Way to go, Jenna. She has such a beautiful voice, and which the show would give her some more credit. neutral
AlixMasters
Well, I suppose I'll share my opinion as well.

Rachel Berry and Kurt Hummel are actually my favorite characters on this show. Followed by Santana and Mercedes.

That being said, when I first started watching the show, I hated Rachel. I thought she was the most annoying, obnoxious, self-absorbed character ever written in history who only think about becoming a star. But, my gosh, she could sing. Then along came Finn and suddenly she was thinking about more than just being a star. She had someone she liked and she was just like an elementary student who had their first crush. It made her a bit more relate-able. Also, let's face it, Quinn was kind of a b**** in the beginning and at different moments throughout the show. Rachel thought Finn deserved better and she liked him and so, she did some questionable things about that. But, before I realized it, I was rooting for her to get the guy she liked which was odd since I thought I couldn't stand her. Then in certain episodes, she'd have a breakthrough with different characters. Eventually she became friends with Kurt and Mercedes and a few others. Then I finally realized that I really liked Rachel. She'd grown on me. So, I tried to figure out why I liked her and I eventually realized.

When the show starts off, look at where Rachel is at in her life. She's been working towards Broadway since she was two and she has two dads who have taught her all her life that she is a star, will be a star, and that she's better than everyone else because she is a star. Her dads never taught her how to get along with others, they only taught her that she was talented and amazing. So, when she joins Glee club, it's like watching a toddler begin to interact with people for the first time. Only, these people already know how to interact with others. So, throughout the show, you watch Rachel as she learns that there are other things in life besides me extremely talented. She learns that the world doesn't just revolve around her. She begins to care for these people in her club and she's clumsy about it, but she slowly gets better. Such as when they had their neglected artists week. She told Mercedes that if she wanted the last spot, she should take it from her. And when Mercedes finished her performance, Rachel told her that she couldn't follow it.

She was there for Kurt when his father died. She helped bring Quinn back to Glee. Eventually she, Kurt, and Mercedes become a trio and their friendship just made me so happy. Rachel's song that she wrote herself about how much she cared and the fact that she was bad at showing it because she's clumsy at it. When Rachel and Kurt had breakfast at Tiffany's, and when they sang on the Broadway stage together. Rachel quit running for presidency when she realized Kurt was better suited and then tried to foolishly help him win and confessed the truth when he almost got in trouble for it. There are so many moments in the show where Rachel proves that she's learning to care about others and she's such a better person that she was in the beginning. Regarding Finn's dreams, Rachel actually decided eventually, that when Finn found his dream, they could follow it instead of hers. She WAS willing to give up a dream she'd had since she was two to make the guy she was in love with happy. Even though he said from the beginning that he was happy to let her follow her dream.

Also, I don't think Rachel was trying to sabotage Kurt for his performance. She believed that doing a song he knew through and through was better as she believed it was for herself. But, then he took a risk and it paid off. And she was happy for him, but she'd heard what the woman said to Kurt and that made her worried for herself. But, her brain told her to stick with what she knew so she did. Personally, I think she choked because while her brain was telling her one thing, I think her heart was telling her to take a risk. So, she couldn't sing the song. The pressure she was putting on herself had a lot to do with it too. But, throughout the series, she's usually done her best when she's taken a risk. So, I think she realized that she shouldn't have been so worried about giving a safe audition and should have instead given one that was bold.


Umm...I disagree. See my posts above. But I do think you have such wonderful insight into these characters. I just have to make one correction. Kurt's dad is not dead. Kurt thought he was going to die, but he survived, and now he's a congressman.
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AlixMasters
Well, I suppose I'll share my opinion as well.

Rachel Berry and Kurt Hummel are actually my favorite characters on this show. Followed by Santana and Mercedes.

That being said, when I first started watching the show, I hated Rachel. I thought she was the most annoying, obnoxious, self-absorbed character ever written in history who only think about becoming a star. But, my gosh, she could sing. Then along came Finn and suddenly she was thinking about more than just being a star. She had someone she liked and she was just like an elementary student who had their first crush. It made her a bit more relate-able. Also, let's face it, Quinn was kind of a b**** in the beginning and at different moments throughout the show. Rachel thought Finn deserved better and she liked him and so, she did some questionable things about that. But, before I realized it, I was rooting for her to get the guy she liked which was odd since I thought I couldn't stand her. Then in certain episodes, she'd have a breakthrough with different characters. Eventually she became friends with Kurt and Mercedes and a few others. Then I finally realized that I really liked Rachel. She'd grown on me. So, I tried to figure out why I liked her and I eventually realized.

When the show starts off, look at where Rachel is at in her life. She's been working towards Broadway since she was two and she has two dads who have taught her all her life that she is a star, will be a star, and that she's better than everyone else because she is a star. Her dads never taught her how to get along with others, they only taught her that she was talented and amazing. So, when she joins Glee club, it's like watching a toddler begin to interact with people for the first time. Only, these people already know how to interact with others. So, throughout the show, you watch Rachel as she learns that there are other things in life besides me extremely talented. She learns that the world doesn't just revolve around her. She begins to care for these people in her club and she's clumsy about it, but she slowly gets better. Such as when they had their neglected artists week. She told Mercedes that if she wanted the last spot, she should take it from her. And when Mercedes finished her performance, Rachel told her that she couldn't follow it.

She was there for Kurt when his father died. She helped bring Quinn back to Glee. Eventually she, Kurt, and Mercedes become a trio and their friendship just made me so happy. Rachel's song that she wrote herself about how much she cared and the fact that she was bad at showing it because she's clumsy at it. When Rachel and Kurt had breakfast at Tiffany's, and when they sang on the Broadway stage together. Rachel quit running for presidency when she realized Kurt was better suited and then tried to foolishly help him win and confessed the truth when he almost got in trouble for it. There are so many moments in the show where Rachel proves that she's learning to care about others and she's such a better person that she was in the beginning. Regarding Finn's dreams, Rachel actually decided eventually, that when Finn found his dream, they could follow it instead of hers. She WAS willing to give up a dream she'd had since she was two to make the guy she was in love with happy. Even though he said from the beginning that he was happy to let her follow her dream.

Also, I don't think Rachel was trying to sabotage Kurt for his performance. She believed that doing a song he knew through and through was better as she believed it was for herself. But, then he took a risk and it paid off. And she was happy for him, but she'd heard what the woman said to Kurt and that made her worried for herself. But, her brain told her to stick with what she knew so she did. Personally, I think she choked because while her brain was telling her one thing, I think her heart was telling her to take a risk. So, she couldn't sing the song. The pressure she was putting on herself had a lot to do with it too. But, throughout the series, she's usually done her best when she's taken a risk. So, I think she realized that she shouldn't have been so worried about giving a safe audition and should have instead given one that was bold.


Umm...I disagree. See my posts above. But I do think you have such wonderful insight into these characters. I just have to make one correction. Kurt's dad is not dead. Kurt thought he was going to die, but he survived, and now he's a congressman.


Actually, I completely meant to say dying, not died. o.o Sorry. Lol. But, thank you. I do understand why you don't like her. But, she just grew on me and I understand that what she does is coming from a good place. It's just hard for her to get it right because she only really started learning how to interact with others a little less than three years ago. So, I just kind of look at her as a three year old when it comes to social skills.
AlixMasters
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AlixMasters
Well, I suppose I'll share my opinion as well.

Rachel Berry and Kurt Hummel are actually my favorite characters on this show. Followed by Santana and Mercedes.

That being said, when I first started watching the show, I hated Rachel. I thought she was the most annoying, obnoxious, self-absorbed character ever written in history who only think about becoming a star. But, my gosh, she could sing. Then along came Finn and suddenly she was thinking about more than just being a star. She had someone she liked and she was just like an elementary student who had their first crush. It made her a bit more relate-able. Also, let's face it, Quinn was kind of a b**** in the beginning and at different moments throughout the show. Rachel thought Finn deserved better and she liked him and so, she did some questionable things about that. But, before I realized it, I was rooting for her to get the guy she liked which was odd since I thought I couldn't stand her. Then in certain episodes, she'd have a breakthrough with different characters. Eventually she became friends with Kurt and Mercedes and a few others. Then I finally realized that I really liked Rachel. She'd grown on me. So, I tried to figure out why I liked her and I eventually realized.

When the show starts off, look at where Rachel is at in her life. She's been working towards Broadway since she was two and she has two dads who have taught her all her life that she is a star, will be a star, and that she's better than everyone else because she is a star. Her dads never taught her how to get along with others, they only taught her that she was talented and amazing. So, when she joins Glee club, it's like watching a toddler begin to interact with people for the first time. Only, these people already know how to interact with others. So, throughout the show, you watch Rachel as she learns that there are other things in life besides me extremely talented. She learns that the world doesn't just revolve around her. She begins to care for these people in her club and she's clumsy about it, but she slowly gets better. Such as when they had their neglected artists week. She told Mercedes that if she wanted the last spot, she should take it from her. And when Mercedes finished her performance, Rachel told her that she couldn't follow it.

She was there for Kurt when his father died. She helped bring Quinn back to Glee. Eventually she, Kurt, and Mercedes become a trio and their friendship just made me so happy. Rachel's song that she wrote herself about how much she cared and the fact that she was bad at showing it because she's clumsy at it. When Rachel and Kurt had breakfast at Tiffany's, and when they sang on the Broadway stage together. Rachel quit running for presidency when she realized Kurt was better suited and then tried to foolishly help him win and confessed the truth when he almost got in trouble for it. There are so many moments in the show where Rachel proves that she's learning to care about others and she's such a better person that she was in the beginning. Regarding Finn's dreams, Rachel actually decided eventually, that when Finn found his dream, they could follow it instead of hers. She WAS willing to give up a dream she'd had since she was two to make the guy she was in love with happy. Even though he said from the beginning that he was happy to let her follow her dream.

Also, I don't think Rachel was trying to sabotage Kurt for his performance. She believed that doing a song he knew through and through was better as she believed it was for herself. But, then he took a risk and it paid off. And she was happy for him, but she'd heard what the woman said to Kurt and that made her worried for herself. But, her brain told her to stick with what she knew so she did. Personally, I think she choked because while her brain was telling her one thing, I think her heart was telling her to take a risk. So, she couldn't sing the song. The pressure she was putting on herself had a lot to do with it too. But, throughout the series, she's usually done her best when she's taken a risk. So, I think she realized that she shouldn't have been so worried about giving a safe audition and should have instead given one that was bold.


Umm...I disagree. See my posts above. But I do think you have such wonderful insight into these characters. I just have to make one correction. Kurt's dad is not dead. Kurt thought he was going to die, but he survived, and now he's a congressman.


Actually, I completely meant to say dying, not died. o.o Sorry. Lol. But, thank you. I do understand why you don't like her. But, she just grew on me and I understand that what she does is coming from a good place. It's just hard for her to get it right because she only really started learning how to interact with others a little less than three years ago. So, I just kind of look at her as a three year old when it comes to social skills.


And manners. stare
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AlixMasters
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Well, I suppose I'll share my opinion as well.

Rachel Berry and Kurt Hummel are actually my favorite characters on this show. Followed by Santana and Mercedes.

That being said, when I first started watching the show, I hated Rachel. I thought she was the most annoying, obnoxious, self-absorbed character ever written in history who only think about becoming a star. But, my gosh, she could sing. Then along came Finn and suddenly she was thinking about more than just being a star. She had someone she liked and she was just like an elementary student who had their first crush. It made her a bit more relate-able. Also, let's face it, Quinn was kind of a b**** in the beginning and at different moments throughout the show. Rachel thought Finn deserved better and she liked him and so, she did some questionable things about that. But, before I realized it, I was rooting for her to get the guy she liked which was odd since I thought I couldn't stand her. Then in certain episodes, she'd have a breakthrough with different characters. Eventually she became friends with Kurt and Mercedes and a few others. Then I finally realized that I really liked Rachel. She'd grown on me. So, I tried to figure out why I liked her and I eventually realized.

When the show starts off, look at where Rachel is at in her life. She's been working towards Broadway since she was two and she has two dads who have taught her all her life that she is a star, will be a star, and that she's better than everyone else because she is a star. Her dads never taught her how to get along with others, they only taught her that she was talented and amazing. So, when she joins Glee club, it's like watching a toddler begin to interact with people for the first time. Only, these people already know how to interact with others. So, throughout the show, you watch Rachel as she learns that there are other things in life besides me extremely talented. She learns that the world doesn't just revolve around her. She begins to care for these people in her club and she's clumsy about it, but she slowly gets better. Such as when they had their neglected artists week. She told Mercedes that if she wanted the last spot, she should take it from her. And when Mercedes finished her performance, Rachel told her that she couldn't follow it.

She was there for Kurt when his father died. She helped bring Quinn back to Glee. Eventually she, Kurt, and Mercedes become a trio and their friendship just made me so happy. Rachel's song that she wrote herself about how much she cared and the fact that she was bad at showing it because she's clumsy at it. When Rachel and Kurt had breakfast at Tiffany's, and when they sang on the Broadway stage together. Rachel quit running for presidency when she realized Kurt was better suited and then tried to foolishly help him win and confessed the truth when he almost got in trouble for it. There are so many moments in the show where Rachel proves that she's learning to care about others and she's such a better person that she was in the beginning. Regarding Finn's dreams, Rachel actually decided eventually, that when Finn found his dream, they could follow it instead of hers. She WAS willing to give up a dream she'd had since she was two to make the guy she was in love with happy. Even though he said from the beginning that he was happy to let her follow her dream.

Also, I don't think Rachel was trying to sabotage Kurt for his performance. She believed that doing a song he knew through and through was better as she believed it was for herself. But, then he took a risk and it paid off. And she was happy for him, but she'd heard what the woman said to Kurt and that made her worried for herself. But, her brain told her to stick with what she knew so she did. Personally, I think she choked because while her brain was telling her one thing, I think her heart was telling her to take a risk. So, she couldn't sing the song. The pressure she was putting on herself had a lot to do with it too. But, throughout the series, she's usually done her best when she's taken a risk. So, I think she realized that she shouldn't have been so worried about giving a safe audition and should have instead given one that was bold.


Umm...I disagree. See my posts above. But I do think you have such wonderful insight into these characters. I just have to make one correction. Kurt's dad is not dead. Kurt thought he was going to die, but he survived, and now he's a congressman.


Actually, I completely meant to say dying, not died. o.o Sorry. Lol. But, thank you. I do understand why you don't like her. But, she just grew on me and I understand that what she does is coming from a good place. It's just hard for her to get it right because she only really started learning how to interact with others a little less than three years ago. So, I just kind of look at her as a three year old when it comes to social skills.


And manners. stare


Yes. But, at least she's trying. It's hard to relearn things when you've already been raised a certain way. Just look at Draco Malfoy. His dad tried to raise him to be evil, but in the end, he didn't want to be evil and he wasn't really, he just need know how else to be.
I was surprised at first. Knowing how Rachel was a perfectionist. I thought it was well deserved. She was too confident and full of herself. I hope this humbles her.
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Princess Akako
Just gotta say that I really loved the Cell Block Tango heart


And that Tina got two whole solos. FINALLY. Way to go, Jenna. She has such a beautiful voice, and which the show would give her some more credit. neutral

I know! She's one of the ORIGINAL five, and she's barely in this season emotion_8c I hope she's in more of the next season since she's only a junior, but I feel like they're just going to focus on the new charactes!!! Sadness...
AlixMasters


I just had to LOL at the Malfoy reference. I get the comparison, but that's one I never thought I'd hear. XD

Though I do have to say, Rachel has been in public school for her whole life. You think she'd get the picture by now. Not to say that her fathers are bad parents by any means, but it doesn't seem like they taught her that life doesn't always go her way. I mean, praising her and encouraging her is one thing, but real life, especially showbiz, comes with rejection that her fathers, or Schue for that matter, never taught her. Either that, or Rachel just wants to believe she's all-around perfect. Which, in all honesty, wouldn't be that surprising.
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I just had to LOL at the Malfoy reference. I get the comparison, but that's one I never thought I'd hear. XD

Though I do have to say, Rachel has been in public school for her whole life. You think she'd get the picture by now. Not to say that her fathers are bad parents by any means, but it doesn't seem like they taught her that life doesn't always go her way. I mean, praising her and encouraging her is one thing, but real life, especially showbiz, comes with rejection that her fathers, or Schue for that matter, never taught her. Either that, or Rachel just wants to believe she's all-around perfect. Which, in all honesty, wouldn't be that surprising.


If she thought she were perfect, she wouldn't be able to admit it when others do something better than her, which she occasionally, begrudgingly does. And yeah, her dads are great, but they basically pampered her all her life. I don't think she really had to interact with others on a deeper level before Glee club because she had never been in a club or anything that she had so much vested interest in before.
AlixMasters
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I just had to LOL at the Malfoy reference. I get the comparison, but that's one I never thought I'd hear. XD

Though I do have to say, Rachel has been in public school for her whole life. You think she'd get the picture by now. Not to say that her fathers are bad parents by any means, but it doesn't seem like they taught her that life doesn't always go her way. I mean, praising her and encouraging her is one thing, but real life, especially showbiz, comes with rejection that her fathers, or Schue for that matter, never taught her. Either that, or Rachel just wants to believe she's all-around perfect. Which, in all honesty, wouldn't be that surprising.


If she thought she were perfect, she wouldn't be able to admit it when others do something better than her, which she occasionally, begrudgingly does. And yeah, her dads are great, but they basically pampered her all her life. I don't think she really had to interact with others on a deeper level before Glee club because she had never been in a club or anything that she had so much vested interest in before.


I agree, but Mercedes actually told he to say that she was better than her, and she didn't do it, despite the fact that they both kicked as at those Maria auditions.
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I just had to LOL at the Malfoy reference. I get the comparison, but that's one I never thought I'd hear. XD

Though I do have to say, Rachel has been in public school for her whole life. You think she'd get the picture by now. Not to say that her fathers are bad parents by any means, but it doesn't seem like they taught her that life doesn't always go her way. I mean, praising her and encouraging her is one thing, but real life, especially showbiz, comes with rejection that her fathers, or Schue for that matter, never taught her. Either that, or Rachel just wants to believe she's all-around perfect. Which, in all honesty, wouldn't be that surprising.


If she thought she were perfect, she wouldn't be able to admit it when others do something better than her, which she occasionally, begrudgingly does. And yeah, her dads are great, but they basically pampered her all her life. I don't think she really had to interact with others on a deeper level before Glee club because she had never been in a club or anything that she had so much vested interest in before.


I agree, but Mercedes actually told he to say that she was better than her, and she didn't do it, despite the fact that they both kicked as at those Maria auditions.


She did admit it to someone else earlier. Though, in all honesty, the song they used for their call back was better suited to Mercedes. But, yeah, she should have admitted it, but I understand why she didn't. She needed the role of Maria for her application. Mercedes wasn't trying for any special school, so she didn't need it the way Rachel did. Though she did sing better than Rachel during the callback. Though, I think Rachel did better the first audition.

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