Christianity question

[Phantomboy411]

Spiltz

Phantomboy411

He doesn't. it's just that most people don't listen unless they've heard of Him.

Notice how when Europeans reached pretty much any country outside their continent or the middle east, Christianity was virtually nonexistent, and they had to bring it over.

actually, "Christianity", or the following of Jesus Christ, originated in the Middle East, near Jordan, etc. Christianity wasn't nonexistent, it had been replaced by Islam and other such religions.

p.s., Europe didn't exactly bring "Christianity", it brought "Catholicism"

[Spiltz]

Lokiogma

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Maybe because they have entered into a covenent with him?

People who have heard of God =/= people who have entered into a covenant with god

people who have heard from god =/= people who have heard of god

Agreed, but I don't get your point. What I'm saying is that history shows us very clearly that YHWH only communicates with those who have already heard of him, whether they believed in him at the time or not. The same can be said about anything imaginary... unicorns, Santa, etc.

[Kuchen Fairy]

A logical demonstration of God's existence is a method of coercion and would as such be incompatible with God's intention to treat us as free and responsible individuals. Biblically, God - as the infinite personal reality, having made man in his image - always treats us as people, respecting our relative freedom and autonomy. He doesn't and won't override our own personal thoughts by revealing himself to us in an overwhelming position, but always chooses to approach us in ways that leave room for our own personal response of human faith. Even the rise of God into our history is regarded as an "incognito" that was only seen through the eyes of the faithful. He has always been willing to appear openly to those who seek him with all their heart, but avoids those who choose to flee from him. He gives us what we want, you see, and his grace is the most important thing in existence.
In other words, for the sake of creating and maintaining a personal relationship of love and trust with us, God does not and will not force an awareness of himself upon us.

[Spiltz]

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?

That has never been the case. Where did this come from?

Christianity is ALWAYS spread by means of humans. God never steps in and introduces himself. Look at Europeans discovering ANY country outside their neighborhood for a good example of entire civilizations living without any notion of YHWH.

Your sentence says, "Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?", which has nothing to do with some need for God to personally express Himself.

People have many religious views and, as have been argued, these could easily be skewed forms of the one true God. Just because it is not a literal carbon copy does not mean its not a possibility.

What would be an example of a form of communication we can see God using with people who have never heard of him?

That's kind of my point. I believe it's possible that there's a god. But I'm bothered by the Christian version of God, who supposedly desires a relationship with all his children and wants us to believe in him... and yet never sends magical messages to people in secluded cultures the way he does to people who have heard of him.

[Spiltz]

Phantomboy411

Spiltz

Phantomboy411

He doesn't. it's just that most people don't listen unless they've heard of Him.

Notice how when Europeans reached pretty much any country outside their continent or the middle east, Christianity was virtually nonexistent, and they had to bring it over.

actually, "Christianity", or the following of Jesus Christ, originated in the Middle East, near Jordan, etc. Christianity wasn't nonexistent, it had been replaced by Islam and other such religions.

p.s., Europe didn't exactly bring "Christianity", it brought "Catholicism"

That's why I said "outside their continent or the middle east". Sorry I think my wording was just weird. I don't know where exactly Christianity existed and for how long... but obviously when we reached the Americas there was no Christianity there. Same with, I believe, all of Africa and East asia. But I'm not so sure about those bordering countries which could've potentially had some communication with Europe/middle East. But you get my point.

K. Catholicism.

[Lokiogma]

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Maybe because they have entered into a covenent with him?

People who have heard of God =/= people who have entered into a covenant with god

people who have heard from god =/= people who have heard of god

Agreed, but I don't get your point. What I'm saying is that history shows us very clearly that YHWH only communicates with those who have already heard of him, whether they believed in him at the time or not. The same can be said about anything imaginary... unicorns, Santa, etc.

Basicly, in the Judeo-Christian understanding, God has made agreements with groups of people. People who enter into this agreemnet get access to God, so it makes sence that he would only show up to people who he had a contract with.

Just speculation, and a Christian will probably come correct me in a few posts

[TheVoiceOfTheLobster]

Spiltz

TheVoiceOfTheLobster

Leave Christians alone and maybe they won't bother you so much.

kthx

No seriously. It's irritating. Christians are around because they conquered so many lands and converted so many people. That's all. That's it. There's nothing else behind it.

I'm so tired of people belittling other religions since it's only a waste of time and energy. Just let them have their smoke and mirrors and don't provoke them into something you'll regret.

[Spiltz]

Kuchen Fairy

A logical demonstration of God's existence is a method of coercion and would as such be incompatible with God's intention to treat us as free and responsible individuals. Biblically, God - as the infinite personal reality, having made man in his image - always treats us as people, respecting our relative freedom and autonomy. He doesn't and won't override our own personal thoughts by revealing himself to us in an overwhelming position, but always chooses to approach us in ways that leave room for our own personal response of human faith. Even the rise of God into our history is regarded as an "incognito" that was only seen through the eyes of the faithful. He has always been willing to appear openly to those who seek him with all their heart, but avoids those who choose to flee from him. He gives us what we want, you see, and his grace is the most important thing in existence.
In other words, for the sake of creating and maintaining a personal relationship of love and trust with us, God does not and will not force an awareness of himself upon us.

I've never understood this argument. How would God revealing himself to me deprive me of my free will? God is something I have never experienced with my senses and therefore, similar to unicorns, I cannot simply choose to believe he exists. If I were to see a unicorn right now, I would believe in unicorns, and same with God. In neither situation would my free will be taken away. Would my actions be altered? Yes. But every decision I've ever made has been governed by thousands of beliefs I have no control over. Please explain. In the meantime, I would greatly appreciate it if God would show himself to me directly, supposing he exists.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Spiltz

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?

That has never been the case. Where did this come from?

Christianity is ALWAYS spread by means of humans. God never steps in and introduces himself. Look at Europeans discovering ANY country outside their neighborhood for a good example of entire civilizations living without any notion of YHWH.

Your sentence says, "Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?", which has nothing to do with some need for God to personally express Himself.

People have many religious views and, as have been argued, these could easily be skewed forms of the one true God. Just because it is not a literal carbon copy does not mean its not a possibility.

What would be an example of a form of communication we can see God using with people who have never heard of him?

That's kind of my point. I believe it's possible that there's a god. But I'm bothered by the Christian version of God, who supposedly desires a relationship with all his children and wants us to believe in him... and yet never sends magical messages to people in secluded cultures the way he does to people who have heard of him.

And these gods that these peoples in a secluded culture have cant be this message you talk of, but merely their failed efforts to get it right?

[Methcalarjalope]

Spiltz

Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?

I don't think that Moses had "heard of him." Not sure about that actually. Did Abraham know of YHVH?

[Spiltz]

Lokiogma

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Maybe because they have entered into a covenent with him?

People who have heard of God =/= people who have entered into a covenant with god

people who have heard from god =/= people who have heard of god

Agreed, but I don't get your point. What I'm saying is that history shows us very clearly that YHWH only communicates with those who have already heard of him, whether they believed in him at the time or not. The same can be said about anything imaginary... unicorns, Santa, etc.

Basicly, in the Judeo-Christian understanding, God has made agreements with groups of people. People who enter into this agreemnet get access to God, so it makes sence that he would only show up to people who he had a contract with.

Just speculation, and a Christian will probably come correct me in a few posts

I don't understand. By this "agreement" are you referring to God's special relationship with the Jewish race, or God's relationship with those who believe he exists?

[Methcalarjalope]

Spiltz

Kuchen Fairy

A logical demonstration of God's existence is a method of coercion and would as such be incompatible with God's intention to treat us as free and responsible individuals. Biblically, God - as the infinite personal reality, having made man in his image - always treats us as people, respecting our relative freedom and autonomy. He doesn't and won't override our own personal thoughts by revealing himself to us in an overwhelming position, but always chooses to approach us in ways that leave room for our own personal response of human faith. Even the rise of God into our history is regarded as an "incognito" that was only seen through the eyes of the faithful. He has always been willing to appear openly to those who seek him with all their heart, but avoids those who choose to flee from him. He gives us what we want, you see, and his grace is the most important thing in existence.
In other words, for the sake of creating and maintaining a personal relationship of love and trust with us, God does not and will not force an awareness of himself upon us.

I've never understood this argument. How would God revealing himself to me deprive me of my free will? God is something I have never experienced with my senses and therefore, similar to unicorns, I cannot simply choose to believe he exists. If I were to see a unicorn right now, I would believe in unicorns, and same with God. In neither situation would my free will be taken away. Would my actions be altered? Yes. But every decision I've ever made has been governed by thousands of beliefs I have no control over. Please explain. In the meantime, I would greatly appreciate it if God would show himself to me directly, supposing he exists.

Is that a pic of your sister in the photograph Spiltz?

There is no objection to you asking God to reveal God to you.

[Spiltz]

TheVoiceOfTheLobster

Spiltz

TheVoiceOfTheLobster

Leave Christians alone and maybe they won't bother you so much.

kthx

No seriously. It's irritating. Christians are around because they conquered so many lands and converted so many people. That's all. That's it. There's nothing else behind it.

I'm so tired of people belittling other religions since it's only a waste of time and energy. Just let them have their smoke and mirrors and don't provoke them into something you'll regret.

The same could be said of any religion about a God who supposedly wants you to love him. But I know very little about other religions, to be honest. Sorry.

[Lokiogma]

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Spiltz

Lokiogma

Maybe because they have entered into a covenent with him?

People who have heard of God =/= people who have entered into a covenant with god

people who have heard from god =/= people who have heard of god

Agreed, but I don't get your point. What I'm saying is that history shows us very clearly that YHWH only communicates with those who have already heard of him, whether they believed in him at the time or not. The same can be said about anything imaginary... unicorns, Santa, etc.

Basicly, in the Judeo-Christian understanding, God has made agreements with groups of people. People who enter into this agreemnet get access to God, so it makes sence that he would only show up to people who he had a contract with.

Just speculation, and a Christian will probably come correct me in a few posts

I don't understand. By this "agreement" are you referring to God's special relationship with the Jewish race, or God's relationship with those who believe he exists?

In Christian Dogma, Jesus set down a new covenent that included anyone who wanted to jump in, so it depends on the time frame you want to talk about

[Spiltz]

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Riviera de la Mancha

Spiltz

Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?

That has never been the case. Where did this come from?

Christianity is ALWAYS spread by means of humans. God never steps in and introduces himself. Look at Europeans discovering ANY country outside their neighborhood for a good example of entire civilizations living without any notion of YHWH.

Your sentence says, "Why does YHWH only "communicate" with those who've already heard of him?", which has nothing to do with some need for God to personally express Himself.

People have many religious views and, as have been argued, these could easily be skewed forms of the one true God. Just because it is not a literal carbon copy does not mean its not a possibility.

What would be an example of a form of communication we can see God using with people who have never heard of him?

That's kind of my point. I believe it's possible that there's a god. But I'm bothered by the Christian version of God, who supposedly desires a relationship with all his children and wants us to believe in him... and yet never sends magical messages to people in secluded cultures the way he does to people who have heard of him.

And these gods that these peoples in a secluded culture have cant be this message you talk of, but merely their failed efforts to get it right?

No it could be. Either way organized religion seems silly to me. I mean on one hand you have 'There is no God, and that's why no one religion is universal" and on the other hand you have "People suck at interpreting God, and that's why no one religion is universal". Both seem to leave the bible... uh... lacking xp