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Girl-Crazy Grabber

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Raven Prime
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Raven Prime
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Interesting back-and-forth you've got going, but I felt compelled to toss a two-cent towards this for just a sec; The Wii U will be backwards-compatible with the Wiimote Plus and will most likely still incorporate it into many more games in the future, not to mention that the tablet controller has a bit of motion-control functionality built into it, as well, so Nintendo isn't dropping motion controls entirely for the next generation.[Nintendo has also stated that the system is planned to support at least two of the Tablet controllers. No word on pricing for them, that I am aware of, so if you've got a price source quote to share, by all means, please do.^_^]
They're just lowering the reliance on it a bit, to appeal more to the core crowd, which they have stated they would like to focus a bit more on this time around. Strike a balance, as it were, between casual and core, so that they aren't leaving one side stranded.
Well, what I meant by "dropping" was that it's not going to be the sole be all and end all like it was for the Wii.
Personally I liked motion controls for most games. Some were a waste though and were really only made motion controlled because omg motion controls.

Quote:
As for the convo, from before, I do agree that games are a luxury.
I'm already in the situation where I'm forced to skip out on Tales of Graces, in favor of being able to EAT for the month, let alone being able to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of me and my girlfriend.
Just can't afford the game, much as I crave it.

And as for the used game topic, it's my opinion that someone should come up with a way to get some of the profit of used games to go back to the producers, even if said profit is very small.
If major retailers, like Game Stop, refused that deal, then I'm sure there would either be a more minor retailer that WOULD accept it, or one would come into existence, possibly one made BY one of the major game names, that would accept such a thing.

I don't exactly see used game sales as evil, but I do think that if more money gets back to the game's makers, the more likely it is that we will see those profits go into expanded budgets for bigger dev teams and, eventually, bigger and better games.
That's what day 1 DLC with codes in the box are for.
Those that buy used games don't get the code, so they have to spend some money to feed the developers if they want it.

TBH, I think that's the best way to do it. If people really wanna buy used games, fine. But they don't have the same right to the full game as those who actually are supporting the people who gave them the game in the first place.


There's a problem with that, though; years down the road, when a game is no longer being made and no new copies are in distribution, how do collectors who want to experience the full game manage to do so without pirating?
I don't think that day 1 DLC is an end-all solution.
Then they buy the DLC.
If it's so far in the future that the DLC can't be obtained any more?

Then to be fair, why should the companies care?
They're not going to see a penny from the sale anyways, so why should they worry about somebody who's going to wait several years before buying the game from someone who isn't them?


What if it's not a case of waiting, but of being born too late to take advantage? Or living in a place where the game was not localized and having no way of importing the right system on top of the game, or a myraid of other factors?
I don't think that that opportunity should be taken away from people in later years.
There's got to be a compromise somewhere, and I, for one, firmly believe that a good step might be rooted in retailers giving a portion of the used game sales profits back to the devs that make the products that they have forged their success upon in the first place.
Same answer.
It may sound unfair, but why, honestly, should they care about those people when they won't be getting money from that sale any more?
They're making the games for their livelihood.
If this is what it takes to get some money back, then that's what it takes.

To be honest, I'd prefer the rumoured "New game sales only because they get locked out for used sales".

Why?

Because that might actually lower the cost of new games because they don't have to compete against sales of their own games used.

After all, PC games are (generally) $10+ cheaper than console games. What's the only real difference between them? PC games can't be sold used.

Aged Lunatic

Raven Prime
Are you going to bother using any relevant analogies, or just going to stick to bringing up other industries that don't apply?


You're the one pointing out how destructive second hand sales are to an industry, yet so many industries far older and far more vast than video games have survived it just fine. Even with all it's other problems (of which I've never heard used car dealerships be counted), the auto industry halls of power ain't starving.

Quote:
My clothing from the same time stopped fitting 2 decades ago.


But someone else can wear it.

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So what?
I fail to believe you're too stupid to get the point of that.

Quote:
Oh that's a laugh, considering how cheap CD's and DVD's are produced, and how it's even cheaper now that it's soon going to digital media and we won't own s**t.
Which would be a good point if they were only selling blank CDs and DVDs.
Because apparently you think that the data on them just magically gets there for free.
I could put together a pair of pants for maybe $10 starting with no materials. Good luck trying to make your own PS3 game (sorry, those don't exist) Xbox 360 game starting with only a blank DVD.

Yea, I know, you're still under the bizarre theory that I hallucinate the existence of Yakuza 4, right, I forgot.

Quote:
But hey, don't take my word for it. Go check out the number of people outright stating that they wouldn't buy a console which registers games (because they apparently have never heard of a PC before somehow),


Is now a good time to mention that one reason I got out of PC gaming was for such a reason myself?

Lots of people buy used clothes, yet I've never heard a word about the garment industry cracking down on Goodwill stores and yard sales. Funny, huh?

Aged Lunatic

Raven Prime


After all, PC games are (generally) $10+ cheaper than console games. What's the only real difference between them? PC games can't be sold used.


Funny, how did I get this second hand copy of Jagged Alliance: Wildfire, One Whole Unit of Blood, Blood 2, and Shadow Company?

Hmmm...yea, they load up and work just fine too, just tested.

Girl-Crazy Grabber

GunsmithKitten
Raven Prime


After all, PC games are (generally) $10+ cheaper than console games. What's the only real difference between them? PC games can't be sold used.


Funny, how did I get this second hand copy of Jagged Alliance: Wildfire, One Whole Unit of Blood, Blood 2, and Shadow Company?

Hmmm...yea, they load up and work just fine too, just tested.
Because obviously 12+ year old games are relevant to my argument about current times.

Why do you even post?

Aged Lunatic

Raven Prime
GunsmithKitten
Raven Prime


After all, PC games are (generally) $10+ cheaper than console games. What's the only real difference between them? PC games can't be sold used.


Funny, how did I get this second hand copy of Jagged Alliance: Wildfire, One Whole Unit of Blood, Blood 2, and Shadow Company?

Hmmm...yea, they load up and work just fine too, just tested.
Because obviously 12+ year old games are relevant to my argument about current times.

Why do you even post?


You said they can't be sold used.

I just bought some used.

Simple as that.

I post because sometimes, you make it so damn easy.

Oh, and can you reccomend a good psychiatrist, I'm STILL hallucinating this elaborate waking dream called "Yakuza 4" right now on the TV, it's even letting me interact with it...I mean, it can't exist, since PS3 has no games, yet here's my PS3 and it's playing a game...OH s**t, I'm TRIPPING BALLS! UP IS DOWN! LEFT IS RIGHT! DOGS AND CATS, LIVING TOGETHER....

Girl-Crazy Grabber

GunsmithKitten
You're the one pointing out how destructive second hand sales are to an industry,
There is a difference between "an" industry and "all" industries.
Until you learn that, I will respond to nothing else you have to say.

Quote:
Yea, I know, you're still under the bizarre theory that I hallucinate the existence of Yakuza 4, right, I forgot.

Except this.

>ignore point just to focus on making a sarcastic rebuttal to a joke

Either you're very confused into thinking you're making good points, or you've finally learned what "trolling" is and have decided to try it out.

Girl-Crazy Grabber

GunsmithKitten
Raven Prime
GunsmithKitten
Raven Prime


After all, PC games are (generally) $10+ cheaper than console games. What's the only real difference between them? PC games can't be sold used.


Funny, how did I get this second hand copy of Jagged Alliance: Wildfire, One Whole Unit of Blood, Blood 2, and Shadow Company?

Hmmm...yea, they load up and work just fine too, just tested.
Because obviously 12+ year old games are relevant to my argument about current times.

Why do you even post?


You said they can't be sold used.

I just bought some used.

Simple as that.

I post because sometimes, you make it so damn easy.

Oh, and can you reccomend a good psychiatrist, I'm STILL hallucinating this elaborate waking dream called "Yakuza 4" right now on the TV, it's even letting me interact with it...I mean, it can't exist, since PS3 has no games, yet here's my PS3 and it's playing a game...OH s**t, I'm TRIPPING BALLS! UP IS DOWN! LEFT IS RIGHT! DOGS AND CATS, LIVING TOGETHER....
I make it so damn easy for you to make stupid arguments?

Yes, I suppose that when compared to my brilliance all arguments look stupid, but hey, I can't take all the credit.

Aged Lunatic

Raven Prime
There is a difference between "an" industry and "all" industries.
Until you learn that, I will respond to nothing else you have to say.


It's just as well anyway, I suppose. Your vision is going to be the one that comes to pass.

But hey, me selling off these old carts of mine won't just put some extra change in my pocket, I can now chalk it up to a protest.

Quote:
>ignore point just to focus on making a sarcastic rebuttal to a joke

Either you're very confused into thinking you're making good points, or you've finally learned what "trolling" is and have decided to try it out.


I'm no good at trolling, being that I'm really, REALLY bad at lying. Heart on my sleeeve and all that.

But hey, I respond to stupidity like PS3 has no games with the equal stupidity it deserves.

Girl-Crazy Grabber

GunsmithKitten
Quote:
>ignore point just to focus on making a sarcastic rebuttal to a joke

Either you're very confused into thinking you're making good points, or you've finally learned what "trolling" is and have decided to try it out.


I'm no good at trolling, being that I'm really, REALLY bad at lying. Heart on my sleeeve and all that.

But hey, I respond to stupidity like PS3 has no games with the equal stupidity it deserves.
So... you admit that what you said was stupid.

Well, at least we agree on something.

Invisible Genius

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The Love that Lasts the Longest...

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Say something new!
I have nothing left...
I can't face the DARK without you!
I'll flat out disagree with your thought on used games.
smashbrolink
I haven't really given much thought to this, to be honest, so just off the top of my head;

#1 Too few localizations.
The Wii is a perfect example of this; it had many a great game come out for it in Japan that we simply never saw over here.
Japan needs to learn that taking the risk holds more potential for profit than they actually think.

#2 Too much focus on online multiplayer content.
Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the online content on MANY games, and I'm NOT saying to take it out.
But I, personally, have run into a few games where the online mode seems like it got ALL of the attention, and as such the main game suffers from lower quality.
There are cases where the opposite is true, as well, though.

#3 [Only applies if we're including Pay2Play and Free2Play MMO's] Not enough active in-game moderation of Griefers.
Speaks for itself. We play a game to have fun. But when that fun comes out of making others miserable for the sake of a few chuckles, it ceases to be fun for all sides and turns into cyber-bullying that only benefits the one doing it.
If first glance can prove someone's doing it, either in retaliation or as the starter of it, then said person should be pulled offline and talked with before being allowed back into the game.

Of course, to do that, they need to start hiring more dedicated moderators, which is an issue in and of itself for some games.

#1 is very true. Also in the absence of a localization, Region Free would be nice.
#2... *looks at Armored Core 5* *looks at Armored Core 4Answer* very true. The former, a slightly older game is a brilliant game. The latter, not so much-- too much focus on the multiplayer at the cost of losing a lot of the single player content.
#3: Depends on what you define as "griefing"-- World of Warcraft has a good handle on the situation-- scamming seems to be the only real way of griefing in that game that *needs* policing- everything else, there's a player found solution: if there's a PvP solution, good. The flagged douchebag on his mammoth blocking access your flight master in the city full of armed guards that'll 1 shot you if you attack him? Get a group, kill the guards and kill the douche. Can't do it? Oh well, tough ******** luck. PvP is Not Griefing... ever. PvP is PvP, and you *must* deal with it. Get a friend, or two, or 40. That guy spamming you with rude remarks? /ignore That guy in your group pulled a bunch of mobs to cause a wipe? /votekick That guy rolled on "your" loot and you lost? Suck it up, cupcake.


There's nothing left to lose..!
The fight never ends!!
I can't face the DARK without you!

...Is the One that can never be.

Adephi's Significant Otter

Japan.

For hogging all the good games.

Aged Lunatic

Gullible doll
Japan.

For hogging all the good games.


Ahhh, the weeaboo, becoming such an endangered species lately, it's still fascinating to see one from time to time.

Gallant Hero

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Raven Prime
smashbrolink
Raven Prime
smashbrolink
Raven Prime
Well, what I meant by "dropping" was that it's not going to be the sole be all and end all like it was for the Wii.
Personally I liked motion controls for most games. Some were a waste though and were really only made motion controlled because omg motion controls.

That's what day 1 DLC with codes in the box are for.
Those that buy used games don't get the code, so they have to spend some money to feed the developers if they want it.

TBH, I think that's the best way to do it. If people really wanna buy used games, fine. But they don't have the same right to the full game as those who actually are supporting the people who gave them the game in the first place.


There's a problem with that, though; years down the road, when a game is no longer being made and no new copies are in distribution, how do collectors who want to experience the full game manage to do so without pirating?
I don't think that day 1 DLC is an end-all solution.
Then they buy the DLC.
If it's so far in the future that the DLC can't be obtained any more?

Then to be fair, why should the companies care?
They're not going to see a penny from the sale anyways, so why should they worry about somebody who's going to wait several years before buying the game from someone who isn't them?


What if it's not a case of waiting, but of being born too late to take advantage? Or living in a place where the game was not localized and having no way of importing the right system on top of the game, or a myraid of other factors?
I don't think that that opportunity should be taken away from people in later years.
There's got to be a compromise somewhere, and I, for one, firmly believe that a good step might be rooted in retailers giving a portion of the used game sales profits back to the devs that make the products that they have forged their success upon in the first place.
Same answer.
It may sound unfair, but why, honestly, should they care about those people when they won't be getting money from that sale any more?
They're making the games for their livelihood.
If this is what it takes to get some money back, then that's what it takes.

To be honest, I'd prefer the rumoured "New game sales only because they get locked out for used sales".

Why?

Because that might actually lower the cost of new games because they don't have to compete against sales of their own games used.

After all, PC games are (generally) $10+ cheaper than console games. What's the only real difference between them? PC games can't be sold used.

They should care because they could make more profit through getting into used game sales THEMSELVES than they would by completely cutting us off of them with new game only sales, and on top of that, since they themselves would be selling the used games, they could also lower prices just as you wish, because they wouldn't have the competition anymore.
All it would take is the initial investment into creating an appropriate chain of stores, or maybe something online that you could purchase and send back to via a mailing system, like Gamefly does.
Plus it wouldn't run the risk of turning people off of games that have continuity with older games.
At some point, videos of older games would disappear and no one would be able to see what they were like, meaning keeping track of the story in a long-running series would become gradually more and more impossible, especially for those who, as I said, were born later on in life and didn't get the CHANCE at those games.

Put simply, cutting off used games entirely, is NOT the best answer, because it would alienate a lot of gamers who LIKE being able to collect games and get into long-running ones for the long-haul, and it might also limit introduction into gaming for newer generations because there would be fewer games to go around that they could actually play all the way through.
The industry's goal is to prevent loss of profits by keeping gamers happy.
Cutting us off from experiencing past titles of their making, even if they aren't currently making a profit off of it, would not make most gamers happy.
Again, they should get into used game retail themselves, not cut us off from it.
Airship Canon
The Love that Lasts the Longest...

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
Say something new!
I have nothing left...
I can't face the DARK without you!
I'll flat out disagree with your thought on used games.
smashbrolink
I haven't really given much thought to this, to be honest, so just off the top of my head;

#1 Too few localizations.
The Wii is a perfect example of this; it had many a great game come out for it in Japan that we simply never saw over here.
Japan needs to learn that taking the risk holds more potential for profit than they actually think.

#2 Too much focus on online multiplayer content.
Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the online content on MANY games, and I'm NOT saying to take it out.
But I, personally, have run into a few games where the online mode seems like it got ALL of the attention, and as such the main game suffers from lower quality.
There are cases where the opposite is true, as well, though.

#3 [Only applies if we're including Pay2Play and Free2Play MMO's] Not enough active in-game moderation of Griefers.
Speaks for itself. We play a game to have fun. But when that fun comes out of making others miserable for the sake of a few chuckles, it ceases to be fun for all sides and turns into cyber-bullying that only benefits the one doing it.
If first glance can prove someone's doing it, either in retaliation or as the starter of it, then said person should be pulled offline and talked with before being allowed back into the game.

Of course, to do that, they need to start hiring more dedicated moderators, which is an issue in and of itself for some games.

#1 is very true. Also in the absence of a localization, Region Free would be nice.
#2... *looks at Armored Core 5* *looks at Armored Core 4Answer* very true. The former, a slightly older game is a brilliant game. The latter, not so much-- too much focus on the multiplayer at the cost of losing a lot of the single player content.
#3: Depends on what you define as "griefing"-- World of Warcraft has a good handle on the situation-- scamming seems to be the only real way of griefing in that game that *needs* policing- everything else, there's a player found solution: if there's a PvP solution, good. The flagged douchebag on his mammoth blocking access your flight master in the city full of armed guards that'll 1 shot you if you attack him? Get a group, kill the guards and kill the douche. Can't do it? Oh well, tough ******** luck. PvP is Not Griefing... ever. PvP is PvP, and you *must* deal with it. Get a friend, or two, or 40. That guy spamming you with rude remarks? /ignore That guy in your group pulled a bunch of mobs to cause a wipe? /votekick That guy rolled on "your" loot and you lost? Suck it up, cupcake.


There's nothing left to lose..!
The fight never ends!!
I can't face the DARK without you!

...Is the One that can never be.



You.... wanna explain why you disagree with the Used games argument?

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I don't think that I can come up with five complaints (in addition to yours), but my biggest pet peeves when it comes to games are:

1. Lack of a Good Story: I know that the big focus now is on MP content and depth, and I have no problems against creating an engaging MP world, but I really wish that it didn't come at the detriment of the SP campaign. I love when I can get engaged in the story, like in the Uncharted and Assassin's Creed series, but these types of games are getting more and more difficult to find.

2. Too Much Run-n-Gun: I'm more of a fun of slower-paced, team-based games (like Battlefield), but most shooters that are coming out (at least that I know of) are too quickly paced and encourage too much lone-wolfing. The difference between the Killzone 2 and Killzone 3 multiplayer, for example, is particularly discouraging.

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