PROOF ALCHEMY IS DOABLE AND DOESN'T NEED TO CHANGE!

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[Krissim Klaw]

Animal

Maybe I was confusing Aurora Kitten Star you for someone else making Dessert Kittens, who already has all but like one or two components to make Candy Mountain.

Having looked at some of the more intense formulas that make Candy Mountain look like a joke, if something isn't changed it will probably be years before we see certain items, and that is only if only one person quests necessary components at a time. Just imagine if there had been a 100 other yous right now who had been just as serious about completing Red Mercury. You would be lucky then if you got a couple of the components you needed. That is only factoring in 100 and that wouldn't even be .0001% of the Gaia population.

That is the big thing that tweaking the drop rates will fix. Right now, if only one or two hardcore alchemist goes after something, they can just barely start to work their way through, some of the formulas. If more components are dropped in, I don't think the prices will shift so much as that the community will grow and other users will feel they have a shot at going for some of the items.

[Cube B]

It's kind of ridiculous right now. Even with the most basic of formulae, it's hard to get into level 3. I've only made it this far because of Orbs and Starter Kits. Outside of those, one WAY TOO EXPENSIVE Tire Dress, and the event Items, I'm a bit stuck.

[momo-ai13]

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

[Random 03 account]

momo-ai13

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

Most didn't spend millions though, Comp, Brain, etc got fausto's bottle formulas when they were 10k, stardusts when they were 50k, levelled from 3-4 for a couple mil at most. With how horrid the odds are of getting a fausto's formula from a pink giftbox(opened like 200, not a one I have gotten) I can only imagine their price is pretty stabalized at 500k a piece which fits with the odds, so it's still gonna be expensive to level from 3 to 4, it COULD have been done with elemental spirits formula IF people didn't DESTROY all the "Green Intentions" remaking the level 1 RIG formula only to get another crappy fail item and destroying 10 green intentions which could have made an elemental spirits.

[momo-ai13]

Animal

momo-ai13

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

Most didn't spend millions though, Comp, Brain, etc got fausto's bottle formulas when they were 10k, stardusts when they were 50k, levelled from 3-4 for a couple mil at most. With how horrid the odds are of getting a fausto's formula from a pink giftbox(opened like 200, not a one I have gotten) I can only imagine their price is pretty stabalized at 500k a piece which fits with the odds, so it's still gonna be expensive to level from 3 to 4, it COULD have been done with elemental spirits formula IF people didn't DESTROY all the "Green Intentions" remaking the level 1 RIG formula only to get another crappy fail item and destroying 10 green intentions which could have made an elemental spirits.

Well, Brain said he spent "a lot" on alchemy and while a lot has different meanings to different people, he's said himself this is just something to do with his spare gold, which I am pretty sure is safe to say he has more gold than the average Gaian.
I am almost positive he has spent more than one million at least and then there are the other alchemists who are willing to pay others to craft their formulas.But my point is no matter what, there is always going to be people paying for things more than what they are worth. They shouldn't get too upset because they didn't want to wait for alchemy to stabilize.
When I say stabilized, I mean alchemy as a whole, and where people aren't getting stuck at levels because items are super expensive because of supply and demand.
Here's a real life example:
I got a PS3 when they were first coming out at 600 dollars, am I upset that I spent that much on a system that is going for less than half of what I bought it for?
Not at all.
Do you get what I am saying now? Or is it safe to agree to disagree?

[Random 03 account]

momo-ai13

Animal

momo-ai13

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

Most didn't spend millions though, Comp, Brain, etc got fausto's bottle formulas when they were 10k, stardusts when they were 50k, levelled from 3-4 for a couple mil at most. With how horrid the odds are of getting a fausto's formula from a pink giftbox(opened like 200, not a one I have gotten) I can only imagine their price is pretty stabalized at 500k a piece which fits with the odds, so it's still gonna be expensive to level from 3 to 4, it COULD have been done with elemental spirits formula IF people didn't DESTROY all the "Green Intentions" remaking the level 1 RIG formula only to get another crappy fail item and destroying 10 green intentions which could have made an elemental spirits.

Well, Brain said he spent "a lot" on alchemy and while a lot has different meanings to different people, he's said himself this is just something to do with his spare gold, which I am pretty sure is safe to say he has more gold than the average Gaian.
I am almost positive he has spent more than one million at least and then there are the other alchemists who are willing to pay others to craft their formulas.But my point is no matter what, there is always going to be people paying for things more than what they are worth. They shouldn't get too upset because they didn't want to wait for alchemy to stabilize.
When I say stabilized, I mean alchemy as a whole, and where people aren't getting stuck at levels because items are super expensive because of supply and demand.
Here's a real life example:
I got a PS3 when they were first coming out at 600 dollars, am I upset that I spent that much on a system that is going for less than half of what I bought it for?
Not at all.
Do you get what I am saying now? Or is it safe to agree to disagree?

Well that's just it, supply vs demand, they aren't going to flood fausto's bottle formulas and stardusts into the market, and thus they are going to stay high, but they HAVE stabalized, it's just they've stabalized at 500k per formula, and like 250k average per stardust, that means it only takes 7.5M to level from 3-4, that's not a lot really, just takes a lot of time and patience and hard work.

4-5 will take just as much or maybe less. 5-6 who knows anymore what with carpet swatch hell. 6-7 *shrugs* 7-8 I already have enough to do and it cost me 500k total(10k formula 7: hermes moon + 30k comet tails x 10) basically, so by stocking up ahead of time for a later level, when I get to it, I can streamline through it. not my fault people now want 300k per comet tail, or 300k per hermes moon formula.

[momo-ai13]

Animal

momo-ai13

Animal

momo-ai13

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

Most didn't spend millions though, Comp, Brain, etc got fausto's bottle formulas when they were 10k, stardusts when they were 50k, levelled from 3-4 for a couple mil at most. With how horrid the odds are of getting a fausto's formula from a pink giftbox(opened like 200, not a one I have gotten) I can only imagine their price is pretty stabalized at 500k a piece which fits with the odds, so it's still gonna be expensive to level from 3 to 4, it COULD have been done with elemental spirits formula IF people didn't DESTROY all the "Green Intentions" remaking the level 1 RIG formula only to get another crappy fail item and destroying 10 green intentions which could have made an elemental spirits.

Well, Brain said he spent "a lot" on alchemy and while a lot has different meanings to different people, he's said himself this is just something to do with his spare gold, which I am pretty sure is safe to say he has more gold than the average Gaian.
I am almost positive he has spent more than one million at least and then there are the other alchemists who are willing to pay others to craft their formulas.But my point is no matter what, there is always going to be people paying for things more than what they are worth. They shouldn't get too upset because they didn't want to wait for alchemy to stabilize.
When I say stabilized, I mean alchemy as a whole, and where people aren't getting stuck at levels because items are super expensive because of supply and demand.
Here's a real life example:
I got a PS3 when they were first coming out at 600 dollars, am I upset that I spent that much on a system that is going for less than half of what I bought it for?
Not at all.
Do you get what I am saying now? Or is it safe to agree to disagree?

Well that's just it, supply vs demand, they aren't going to flood fausto's bottle formulas and stardusts into the market, and thus they are going to stay high, but they HAVE stabalized, it's just they've stabalized at 500k per formula, and like 250k average per stardust, that means it only takes 7.5M to level from 3-4, that's not a lot really, just takes a lot of time and patience and hard work.

4-5 will take just as much or maybe less. 5-6 who knows anymore what with carpet swatch hell. 6-7 *shrugs* 7-8 I already have enough to do and it cost me 500k total(10k formula 7: hermes moon + 30k comet tails x 10) basically, so by stocking up ahead of time for a later level, when I get to it, I can streamline through it. not my fault people now want 300k per comet tail, or 300k per hermes moon formula.

Not everyone has that much gold or time to spare.
This is basically a gold sink for those who have excess gold.
We need a universal gold sink that everyone can take advantage of, otherwise this isn't helping with inflation as much as it could, in my opinion.
And I should have been more specific, stable at a reasonable price, while I could afford it, I refuse to pay for them because I think it's ridiculous how much they cost. I don't mind waiting however long it takes for alchemy to become more reasonable in my eyes. (the only reason I am doing it for the achievements anyways..)

[Random 03 account]

momo-ai13

Animal

momo-ai13

Animal

momo-ai13

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

Most didn't spend millions though, Comp, Brain, etc got fausto's bottle formulas when they were 10k, stardusts when they were 50k, levelled from 3-4 for a couple mil at most. With how horrid the odds are of getting a fausto's formula from a pink giftbox(opened like 200, not a one I have gotten) I can only imagine their price is pretty stabalized at 500k a piece which fits with the odds, so it's still gonna be expensive to level from 3 to 4, it COULD have been done with elemental spirits formula IF people didn't DESTROY all the "Green Intentions" remaking the level 1 RIG formula only to get another crappy fail item and destroying 10 green intentions which could have made an elemental spirits.

Well, Brain said he spent "a lot" on alchemy and while a lot has different meanings to different people, he's said himself this is just something to do with his spare gold, which I am pretty sure is safe to say he has more gold than the average Gaian.
I am almost positive he has spent more than one million at least and then there are the other alchemists who are willing to pay others to craft their formulas.But my point is no matter what, there is always going to be people paying for things more than what they are worth. They shouldn't get too upset because they didn't want to wait for alchemy to stabilize.
When I say stabilized, I mean alchemy as a whole, and where people aren't getting stuck at levels because items are super expensive because of supply and demand.
Here's a real life example:
I got a PS3 when they were first coming out at 600 dollars, am I upset that I spent that much on a system that is going for less than half of what I bought it for?
Not at all.
Do you get what I am saying now? Or is it safe to agree to disagree?

Well that's just it, supply vs demand, they aren't going to flood fausto's bottle formulas and stardusts into the market, and thus they are going to stay high, but they HAVE stabalized, it's just they've stabalized at 500k per formula, and like 250k average per stardust, that means it only takes 7.5M to level from 3-4, that's not a lot really, just takes a lot of time and patience and hard work.

4-5 will take just as much or maybe less. 5-6 who knows anymore what with carpet swatch hell. 6-7 *shrugs* 7-8 I already have enough to do and it cost me 500k total(10k formula 7: hermes moon + 30k comet tails x 10) basically, so by stocking up ahead of time for a later level, when I get to it, I can streamline through it. not my fault people now want 300k per comet tail, or 300k per hermes moon formula.

Not everyone has that much gold or time to spare.
This is basically a gold sink for those who have excess gold.
We need a universal gold sink that everyone can take advantage of, otherwise this isn't helping with inflation as much as it could, in my opinion.
And I should have been more specific, stable at a reasonable price, while I could afford it, I refuse to pay for them because I think it's ridiculous how much they cost. I don't mind waiting however long it takes for alchemy to become more reasonable in my eyes. (the only reason I am doing it for the achievements anyways..)

Gaia has a widespread gold sink that everyone can participate in, it's called BidBlast. And we saw how well that went for the components put into bidblast, someone wins it for 3k, then turns around and sells it for 2M... so it didn't fix the prices at all, let's face it, alchemy is a rich person's game and always will be, while bidblast will be the poor persons game and goldsink(actually not true now that you have to have the gold to place the bid it's also a rich persons game for higher end items lol) bidblasting components was their attempt to make the prices reasonable, but the natural greed of 99% of gaia users made that not happen sadly.

[momo-ai13]

Animal

momo-ai13

Animal

momo-ai13

Animal

momo-ai13

Just because you guys were impatient when it came to leveling in alchemy and choose to spend millions upon millions of gold does not mean the rest of Gaia should have to, I'm not saying alchemy should be cheap either, though.
Alchemy will balance out eventually, it might be a year from now, maybe even three years.
You just can't expect people to have to pay the same you did forever.
It's kind of like when an item first comes out, some are willing to pay the inflated price since it is new, while others will wait for it to even out and become more stable and not pay as much as the first person who bought it did.

Edit; It's basically a gold sink to those who can afford it. And that is not an effective gold sink in my opinion. An effective gold sink IMO, would be one the majority can use and want to use. We need an effective gold sink, not just one for the rich users.

Most didn't spend millions though, Comp, Brain, etc got fausto's bottle formulas when they were 10k, stardusts when they were 50k, levelled from 3-4 for a couple mil at most. With how horrid the odds are of getting a fausto's formula from a pink giftbox(opened like 200, not a one I have gotten) I can only imagine their price is pretty stabalized at 500k a piece which fits with the odds, so it's still gonna be expensive to level from 3 to 4, it COULD have been done with elemental spirits formula IF people didn't DESTROY all the "Green Intentions" remaking the level 1 RIG formula only to get another crappy fail item and destroying 10 green intentions which could have made an elemental spirits.

Well, Brain said he spent "a lot" on alchemy and while a lot has different meanings to different people, he's said himself this is just something to do with his spare gold, which I am pretty sure is safe to say he has more gold than the average Gaian.
I am almost positive he has spent more than one million at least and then there are the other alchemists who are willing to pay others to craft their formulas.But my point is no matter what, there is always going to be people paying for things more than what they are worth. They shouldn't get too upset because they didn't want to wait for alchemy to stabilize.
When I say stabilized, I mean alchemy as a whole, and where people aren't getting stuck at levels because items are super expensive because of supply and demand.
Here's a real life example:
I got a PS3 when they were first coming out at 600 dollars, am I upset that I spent that much on a system that is going for less than half of what I bought it for?
Not at all.
Do you get what I am saying now? Or is it safe to agree to disagree?

Well that's just it, supply vs demand, they aren't going to flood fausto's bottle formulas and stardusts into the market, and thus they are going to stay high, but they HAVE stabalized, it's just they've stabalized at 500k per formula, and like 250k average per stardust, that means it only takes 7.5M to level from 3-4, that's not a lot really, just takes a lot of time and patience and hard work.

4-5 will take just as much or maybe less. 5-6 who knows anymore what with carpet swatch hell. 6-7 *shrugs* 7-8 I already have enough to do and it cost me 500k total(10k formula 7: hermes moon + 30k comet tails x 10) basically, so by stocking up ahead of time for a later level, when I get to it, I can streamline through it. not my fault people now want 300k per comet tail, or 300k per hermes moon formula.

Not everyone has that much gold or time to spare.
This is basically a gold sink for those who have excess gold.
We need a universal gold sink that everyone can take advantage of, otherwise this isn't helping with inflation as much as it could, in my opinion.
And I should have been more specific, stable at a reasonable price, while I could afford it, I refuse to pay for them because I think it's ridiculous how much they cost. I don't mind waiting however long it takes for alchemy to become more reasonable in my eyes. (the only reason I am doing it for the achievements anyways..)

Gaia has a widespread gold sink that everyone can participate in, it's called BidBlast. And we saw how well that went for the components put into bidblast, someone wins it for 3k, then turns around and sells it for 2M... so it didn't fix the prices at all, let's face it, alchemy is a rich person's game and always will be, while bidblast will be the poor persons game and goldsink(actually not true now that you have to have the gold to place the bid it's also a rich persons game for higher end items lol) bidblasting components was their attempt to make the prices reasonable, but the natural greed of 99% of gaia users made that not happen sadly.

Bidblast isn't a goldsink to me.
A lot of items are selling for less than what they are worth on the market.
D-tails, components, etc. It was a gold sink when it first came out and no one knew what they hell they were doing, though and were spending more than they should have on some items. I feel like, but don't know for sure, that less, Gaians are using it now.
It might be taking more gold out of the system permanently, however.
Alchemy will not always be a rich man's game. Eventually, though it may take years ( ninja ), it will lose it's worth like almost every other feature Gaia has.

[Bellatrix LeBleu]

momo-ai13

Your argument is well said. I agree and that's why I'm waiting as well.

[Sagebomb]

momo-ai13

Bidblast isn't a goldsink to me.
A lot of items are selling for less than what they are worth on the market.
D-tails, components, etc. It was a gold sink when it first came out and no one knew what they hell they were doing, though and were spending more than they should have on some items. I feel like, but don't know for sure, that less, Gaians are using it now. .

The main reaon no gaians are using bid blast is they arent putting items in it, I know lots of people who eagerly await the next round.

I dont know if you understand the concept of bid blast as a gold sink.

This calculation includes residual 10g tickets that a still around and the current 100g ticket price.

The HOTD auction sold at 424,130g on top of that gold spent on tickets for that auction are

minumal 4,241,300
maximal 42,413,000

So the horns removed 4.6m at the least and 42.8m at the most. Logically the real total lies between those two. But as 10g tickets start to dissapere it will get closer and closer to the later.

[momo-ai13]

Sagebomb

momo-ai13

Bidblast isn't a goldsink to me.
A lot of items are selling for less than what they are worth on the market.
D-tails, components, etc. It was a gold sink when it first came out and no one knew what they hell they were doing, though and were spending more than they should have on some items. I feel like, but don't know for sure, that less, Gaians are using it now. .

The main reaon no gaians are using bid blast is they arent putting items in it, I know lots of people who eagerly await the next round.

I dont know if you understand the concept of bid blast as a gold sink.

This calculation includes residual 10g tickets that a still around and the current 100g ticket price.

The HOTD auction sold at 424,130g on top of that gold spent on tickets for that auction are

minumal 4,241,300
maximal 42,413,000

So the horns removed 4.6m at the least and 42.8m at the most. Logically the real total lies between those two. But as 10g tickets start to dissapere it will get closer and closer to the later.

True, but as I said before I feel not as many people are a part of BB anymore now that they understand how it works. I'm also waiting for the next round, but I don't use my tickets until last minute so I don't waste tickets or pointlessly raise the price.
I do understand it, I'm just angry about it all, I guess. But like Animal pointed out.. BB is turning into a rich people game, we need more mediocre gold sinks majority can and want to participate in and enjoy. Otherwise the gold sinks are only affecting a certain portion of users (though more I think about it, it might be the right portion... Meh starting to lose interest in thinking for the night =_=).

Edit; you do have a point, I wasn't considering the gold people were spending on tickets. Still though I feel it needs more improvement. More items to auction off at a time might be a good idea.

[momo-ai13]

Bellatrix LeBleu

momo-ai13

Your argument is well said. I agree and that's why I'm waiting as well.

Well thank you for the tips! c:

[Sagebomb]

momo-ai13

Edit; you do have a point, I wasn't considering the gold people were spending on tickets. Still though I feel it needs more improvement. More items to auction off at a time might be a good idea.

Gold spent on tickets is the gold sink, the price the item sells for is pretty irrelevent...besides increasing the ammount spent on tickets. But when the majority of tickets spent on the bids are 100g, the final sales value will only be less than 1% of the gold sunk in said auction.

I to never bid unless there is less than 30 seconds left, often then not until there is less than 10 seconds left. But there will always be people bumping up the price in the mean time which I dont mind at all. I have won 9 auctions so far

ranging from super cheap

http://www.gaiaonline.com/bidblast/listing/677

to well still pretty cheap XD

http://www.gaiaonline.com/bidblast/listing/919

But I have only won component auctions, But I still try most auctions where I can.

Basically, I think one main thing the next to fix atm is there should be no down time between auctions ending and new auctions, as well as more varied auction lengths (2 hour - 1 week auctions). Of course the 2 hour ones should still be components and other cheap stuff and the week ones the MC/DIs

[momo-ai13]

Sagebomb

momo-ai13

Edit; you do have a point, I wasn't considering the gold people were spending on tickets. Still though I feel it needs more improvement. More items to auction off at a time might be a good idea.

Gold spent on tickets is the gold sink, the price the item sells for is pretty irrelevent...besides increasing the ammount spent on tickets. But when the majority of tickets spent on the bids are 100g, the final sales value will only be less than 1% of the gold sunk in said auction.

I to never bid unless there is less than 30 seconds left, often then not until there is less than 10 seconds left. But there will always be people bumping up the price in the mean time which I dont mind at all. I have won 9 auctions so far

ranging from super cheap

http://www.gaiaonline.com/bidblast/listing/677

to well still pretty cheap XD

http://www.gaiaonline.com/bidblast/listing/919

But I have only won component auctions, But I still try most auctions where I can.

Basically, I think one main thing the next to fix atm is there should be no down time between auctions ending and new auctions, as well as more varied auction lengths (2 hour - 1 week auctions). Of course the 2 hour ones should still be components and other cheap stuff and the week ones the MC/DIs

3g Holy Hell, how did that happen? o.o
Anyways, I can't really argue with you, nor is this the place to anyways. XD
I haven't won one yet, then again I get distracted and forget about the auctions... *shrugs*
If you want to talk more about this feel free to PM me before we completely derail the discussion of this thread. xD