"WoW is not a real success" - cites Gaia CEO Craig Sherman.

[Sheshira]

fin

2) Gaia's age-target.
When you hear me quoted somewhere as saying 'gaia is for teens' what I'm trying to get across is that it is Not for kids or tweens. I'm trying to make the point that gaia is for older people. Usually i say that gaia's core user base is 13-24 and say that there are at least 1/2 a million gaians who are older than that. Again, my point is that gaia is for older people than you (the audience i'm speaking to) think. This is the best way to get it across in a few seconds or less.

I'm starting to understand why in some sense he's said repeatedly "teen" hangout however because the people he interviews with do not know Gaia then unfortunately their perception of "teen" might be more along the lines of 13-17 not 13- 24 (though personally that needs to be left open ended since not only are many Gaians over 24 if Gaia remains for a few more years the number of over 24 will only increase). I think a better label needs to be in place or a better means of describing Gaia as while it is rated "PG 13" it is really a place for all ages over 13. Can't use a label like "adult" hangout because it denotes an adult over 17 (in language and content) website and its certainly not all ages.

[Kaenai]

I hope the OP can put fin's post (page 6 in this thread) on the front page. Otherwise, we're going to get a lot more people coming in and not getting what really happened.

[[Zigaroma]]

The fact that this man is the CEO is a very scary thing. I don't even like WoW and I'm willing to say it owns the mmo game market. Trust me the gaia mmo will look like a kiddy pool when put up to wow....sorry gaia but it's true.
Edit:@fin: I can understand your point and what not but to call WoW not a success is just out right wrong. Does it have 10 mil people? No but that also has to do with many factors like the pay to play. If you took all the people who play free WoW (yes they have such things) I'm sure your numbers for WoW would go up greatly. This leads me to Gaia. Gaia has roughly 12,234,065 registered users ( I say roughly because as I post this odds are the number will go up). Now how many of that many users are active accounts and not just mules or bots? Then taking that out how many more of those users actually play the game and take part in Gaia outside of the forums aspect? I know a large portion of people on Gaia do not take part in the events and while I'm sure the large portion of Gaia does thats still alot of people unaccounted for. You may end up with less then 10 mil people playing the mmo, does that make it not a success? Also you have to look at the games. Gaia's mmo is a casual game that is supposedly free to play. With all free to play mmo games you will have items you can only buy with real money and what not so to call it truly free would be a lie in my eyes, no mmo is truly free unless your into hacking. Free to play mmo games are nice but lets face it the mmo market is one that is always growing and when you get companies like Bioware entering the mix it's almost 100% unlikely that free to play will overtake the market.

In summery a Gaia mmo while it may be fun would not be able to stand up to a game like WoW or other big hitting mmo games. Will it be fun to play? I think so. Is it awesome you guys are doing it? Hell yeah. But just because you have a user base already does not mean all or most will take part in the game. Games are about attracting the people who are interested in them so to think every gaian will play is just silly. Also what about the kids whos computers can't support the game like the ones who can't support towns and the other games? They will just be left out if nothing is done about that (although I have a feeling the fault comes on the users end in that case). Anyway I'm done with my rant so feel free to pick it apart at will, if you need me I'll be playing my video games. xd

[haygurrlhay]

G-L-A-M-OR-OUS<333

i hope this isnt coming as a shock to you, but WoW is a video game, gaia isnt. . .

[Glamorous, Glamorous]

[D e l i r i o u s]

WoW > Gaia.

Besides, comparing the two is like apples to oranges. If you want to compare MMOs, try Maple Story vs. Gaia or something.

[Jayce Reinhardt]

fin

Bob, thanks for PMing me. I hadn't seen this thread before. And you guys should totally feel free to PM me and write about me and gaia. (but keep in mind I can only respond to a fraction of the pms i get sad

Let me respond to three things:

1) Specific WOW quote.

This is not what I said (as far as I remember) or meant.

What I meant was that free to play mmos and advanced casual mmo's have the potential to expand the market of mmos to a much wider audience than current MMOs. WOW is an extraordinarily well-made game and it cost a ton of money to make. And it is really an amazing experience. And it's bigger than every other paid MMO on the planet today. And, even so, despite all that, there are less than 10mm people playing it.

Why? Mostly because of upfront barriers: must purchase in-retail or get a huge download; must pay a monthly subscription fee. This new category - variously called free-to-play mmos, browser-based or lite-download mmos, advanced-casual mmos, or medium-core mmos - removes many of those barriers. My belief is that in the next 3-7 years, this new category (some of the most notable so far are kartrider in korea and maplestory world-wide) will start to proliferate and grow the market to much more users.

That's what I meant. For the record: I think WOW is an amazing success. Of course! I actually am so impressed with what they built that the first month I joined gaia I got someone i know to introduce me to one of the lead producers on wow and Lanzer and I went to LA and met him to get advice for gaia and just hear his thoughts on why they were so successful. (also, for the record, we didn't go meet him because we're trying to make gaia into wow! We actually meet with a lot of people in gaming companies and cool-websites just to get advice and their perspectives).

2) Gaia's age-target.
When you hear me quoted somewhere as saying 'gaia is for teens' what I'm trying to get across is that it is Not for kids or tweens. I'm trying to make the point that gaia is for older people. Usually i say that gaia's core user base is 13-24 and say that there are at least 1/2 a million gaians who are older than that. Again, my point is that gaia is for older people than you (the audience i'm speaking to) think. This is the best way to get it across in a few seconds or less.

3) More General about my public statements.
The places I speak about gaia and get quoted are almost always at events with bankers and industry analysts and journalists. These are events where almost no one knows what gaia or virtual worlds or forum communities or even MMOs are. Often times i get questions like: 'is gaia like clubpenguin?' or 'Gaia is Second Life for kids, right?' or 'are you like myspace?' or 'are you like a free world of warcraft?' Most of these people have read articles about these sites but have never actually used them. Or they've gone to the home page and that's it.

These people are actually really smart and well-meaning, but they don't know much about gaia or this space in general and so I try to explain in ways that they get it. Also, I often am on a panel and get only a few seconds to say something so I've got to figure out a form of short-hand, some super-pithy way of describing gaia so that they get it and remember.

My job is partly to talk to this outside world - to help with fundraising, to help with recruiting, etc. - so that everyone else here at gaia doesn't have to worry about that stuff.

In Sum:
Lots of times the quote you get or the article you read is only half the story. Ask me or others at gaia for clarification if what you hear sounds wierd.

Thanks.

[Seeno]

I have updated the first post to reflect Craig's reply, ironically I'm currently playing WoW and wiping on Hex in ZA ( emo ) so I cannot reply directly currently but thank you for addressing this issue within the community biggrin

[Internet King Luftwaffle]

I'd consider WoW to be a success, because of the low percentage of people that are able to play MMOs worldwide.
It's got 10 million subscribers, and that's AFTER you take away the giant chunk of MMO players that realize there's more interesting MMOs out there than WoW. razz

[Viole]

Your Neglected Toy

Viole

But if that's his intention, it's not smart to put Gaia in relation with WoW, because it's absolutely not the same. Gaia should go its own individual path, moreso if you can't really compare it to any other games or sites.

With a quote like that (and it is prone to be quoted out of the context), you get the attention of WoW players, sure, but is it for good or bad? I am sure my WoW-crazy friend would smirk and say exactly what Substance-E said if I ever told her about this (except for the crap bit, but that's where I'd agree with him ^^).

Good attention and Bad attention is all GOOD if you are just trying to get people to sign up.
I think thats all he was trying to do.

Secondly, because its largely different there is no reason why WoW players shouldn't feel mad.

Everyone is acting like because he used those stupid numbers to say WoW isn't a success is a direct attack on them as a person, for playing WoW.

I would say Gaia isn't largely successful myself..since I hardly ever meet anyone who knows what I am talking about..but that doesn't mean I am trying to attack Gaia.

Hm, no, I don't believe in bad attention. And I don't think he wants people just to sign up, he wants people to sign up, have fun and stay.
It's pointless to discuss facts about WoW when advertising Gaia, in every way. Gaia is a forum-based site with very individual, customizable avatars. Every comparison with a game that is mainly a 3D battle will not look good, unless it's about the addiction factor. Anyone who plays/loves WoW could take it the wrong way. If anything, it should be stressed that Gaia is different. Our strengths are the forums, the avatars, the shops, economy, the NPCs and storyline. Even when we will have a BS, it should not be compared to WoW.

Fin, thanks for posting. It's nice to hear about the way you work, and that you pay attention to our posts. 3nodding

[Alt F4]

But WoW is a horrible game.

Quote:

WOW is an extraordinarily well-made game.

Dear lord, the game is horrible, the graphics are horrendous and the community is a JOKE.

Quote:

And it is really an amazing experience.

The toilet is more amazing than WoW.

[Wurmie]

Alt F4

But WoW is a horrible game.

Apparently lots...and lots of people around the world disagree. 3nodding

[Akasha Heartilly]

Sheshira

fin

2) Gaia's age-target.
When you hear me quoted somewhere as saying 'gaia is for teens' what I'm trying to get across is that it is Not for kids or tweens. I'm trying to make the point that gaia is for older people. Usually i say that gaia's core user base is 13-24 and say that there are at least 1/2 a million gaians who are older than that. Again, my point is that gaia is for older people than you (the audience i'm speaking to) think. This is the best way to get it across in a few seconds or less.

I'm starting to understand why in some sense he's said repeatedly "teen" hangout however because the people he interviews with do not know Gaia then unfortunately their perception of "teen" might be more along the lines of 13-17 not 13- 24 (though personally that needs to be left open ended since not only are many Gaians over 24 if Gaia remains for a few more years the number of over 24 will only increase). I think a better label needs to be in place or a better means of describing Gaia as while it is rated "PG 13" it is really a place for all ages over 13. Can't use a label like "adult" hangout because it denotes an adult over 17 (in language and content) website and its certainly not all ages.

That makes far more sense now.

Especially with the other site comparisons.
It's better than what else could be said and giving the impression that older users are on here and by calling it a teen place, it lets people know that it will not be acceptable for younger children.

Still, I agree it needs a better label.

[A Humble Vaudevillian Vet]

He is going to be rather disappointed, I believe.

[Alt F4]

Wurmie

Alt F4

But WoW is a horrible game.

Apparently lots...and lots of people around the world disagree. 3nodding

WoW is like a gateway MMO, like a gateway drug would be. The people who play WoW have not tapped into the hundreds of more interesting and cultivating underground MMOs out there, but eventually they will.

WoW is extremely bland, the community is just crap, the game mechanics suck, and the graphics are horrific. Not to mention, I've played some free MMOs that were very out there, interesting, and a LOT better than WoW.

WoW is just like it's name, it's a total SHOCK that it's this ungodly popular. Why? it's the only MMO that's really advertised. You don't see Archlord and Final Fantasy 11 being over-advertised, despite them being pretty much better overall games.

[Predatory Gremlin]

That seems very unrealistic. Not all have computers, not all play that kind of game, not all like the game even if it's their preferred genre, not all can afford it... By the time you whittle it down the WOW numbers seem very good.

Ambition like that makes me wonder just what his dream Gaia would be, Facebook?